General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPardon power is absolute, but POTUS CAN commit impeachable crimes via the use of pardons.
An example would be a situation in which a president were to tell someone that if he would give the president a million dollars, he would pardon that person's son. The president would be allowed to issue the pardon.....that is absolute......but the issuance of the pardon in such a circumstance would clearly be the activator of a criminal act. In that scenario, the crime would NOT be "pardoning" per se.....instead, the crime would be the solicitation and acceptance of a bribe.
A president could make an arrangement with somebody to kill a political foe, the signal for which could be the pardoning of an otherwise unconnected person. Again, in such a circumstance, a president would have the absolute power to pardon, so the crime would not be "pardoning" per se, but instead would be conspiracy to commit murder, or even murder itself, if the execution of the crime were to be successful.
Trump's using pardons to keep witnesses from testifying against him would definitely be a crime of obstruction of justice, even though he would have the right to issue the pardons in the first place. And yes, those pardons would be impeachable......again, not for pardoning per se, but for the obstruction of justice activated by the pardon. Even the reality that pardoned criminals could be compelled to testify, that they could not plead the fifth, and that they could be prosecuted for perjury, could easily be obviated by a presidential pardon for perjury after the testimony.
In most places, if following regulations, it is not a crime per se to carry a gun, or to use it under very restricted circumstances. It IS a crime to use that gun in certain ways, such as robbing a bank or randomly shooting people. A perpetrator of both of those crimes could not rightfully say "I have a right to carry and use a gun. Therefore, it is legal to rob a bank or randomly shoot people with a gun." Neither could a president rightfully say "I have the right to pardon. Therefore, I can legally use that power to signal a co-conspirator to murder, and I can also legally use that power to solicit and accept bribes."
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)This is a common misconception. The president can be impeached now for purely political reasons.
No crime is necessary to impeach.
tableturner
(1,683 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Cosmocat
(14,568 posts)But he simply will not be impeached by republicans. Regardless of what he does.
If D's get power, they would need a lot more than this (Which will very likely be the case).
tableturner
(1,683 posts)I realize that it would take more...a LOT more....to get the GOP to impeach and convict. I think a lot more is on the way. Pardons will be only one of many examples of obstruction on the list, and obstruction will be one of many other serious crimes uncovered.
When the GOP is confronted with money laundering, espionage, and other serious crimes, they will have to fold. In fact, it is obvious that we are in the early/middle stages of the folding process, and that's without any of Mueller's findings being a factor. It's been obvious the last couple of weeks how many Republicans in Congress have clearly moved away from Trump.
Why does Trump continue to openly obstruct justice? Trump knows he's done. He knows what he has done, and he knows Mueller will be able to unearth all of it. That means he has only two courses of action that might even remotely keep him in office and out of prison (but won't): 1. Obstruct justice, and 2. Foment violence by his followers in an effort to strong-arm his way out of trouble.
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)They will "have" to do no such thing, until Trump's approval among Republicans sinks so low that they face political risk in not doing so. While this might happen, it is certainly not clear that wrongdoing by the President will cause that to happen.
tableturner
(1,683 posts)Big charges with proof will cause an avalanche. A good number of Republicans are already close to bolting. They can only take so much......