Cannon Fodder - this is what I thought after the third installment of The Vietnam War

[question everything]

The goal was 70% to prevent humiliation.

McNamara continued to present Johnson and the cabinet with two options: one to try to negotiate, second, to throw more troops there. And the second option always won.

The North Vietnamese did not care, did not care how many of their people got killed. They were fighting for their independence, for their lives.

We just... cared about our ego.

They showed that horrible clip from CBS Morley Safer, how our soldiers, after arresting a few young men in a village, then torched the houses. Just for the sake of doing this.

Johnson than called and complained to the head of CBS.

But it was just one bad mission after the other while sending more and more units.

One of the commanders - Moore - admitted that he admired the Vietnamese, their dedication.

And I could see why most of the American soldiers there believed in the mission. They had to, to be able to wake up in the morning and go on yet another mission.

And, the report from the field: we are killing them 10 to one. And when Senator Fritz Hollings visited there he said: I don't care about their 10; I care about our one.

I honestly don't know how much I will be able to watch. Severn more episodes with non stop killings. This episode ended on December 1965 and we have 9 and a half more years before it is over! A year before McCain got shot down.

And... there may be some on DU who lost loved ones in those days and it must hurt to learn that that lost was for nothing and for any of you here - I apologize. It must be painful.

[BigmanPigman]

1. I just finished watching it in CA. I am familiar with so much of it

even though I was a little kid when it was happening. I became interested in the Beatles, then the 60s and naturally Vietnam. Even though I attended art school I took Vietnam film classes, etc. I have to warn you about future episodes...1968 and the Tet Offensive and 1969 My Lai (that is really, really horrible). Even though I have read books, written papers, watched films, and listened to albums I still cry when I see the footage. I know many Vietnamese people so that may add to the emotions I have. During the entire episode tonight (in between going back and forth to my library of books) I had the same quote going through my head and I can't remember who said it, perhaps you can help me.

It is something similar to, "The only good way to win a war is to not start one".

I am sure you understand after reading what you just wrote.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. By that time kids were actually questioning authority

This was an entirely new concept. The draft didn't help matters either.
I maintain till this day if there hadn't been the large scale violent protests that goddamn war would still be going on today.
The government got wise to the way it works now, no draft, keep it low profile out of the news and out of the public eye and keep the death rate down and you can run a war for 20+ or maybe forever.

[BigmanPigman]

6. You're right. They have it all figured out, don't they?!

Maybe this is why I have been going to so many protests now (10 in 9 months). I am pretty sick these days but I feel like I have to do it if I am still physically able to do so.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. I really don't advocate it for obvious reasons

The violent protests outraged everybody and are always deemed counterproductive but guess what? they got results.
The government absolutely encourages peaceful obediant "protest" that waste your time and are totally ignored by everyone. They are as productive as a moment of silence. I truly wish this were not the case but it is.

[cwydro]

9. There's a very well known man who would disagree

Wonder if you know his name.

[cilla4progress]

2. Thank you for your

Thoughtful comments. I too am very pained by this history.

[dogman]

3. Early troops went to stop the dominoes from falling.

In time, more troops and more people realized the dominoes were a setup to enrich the MIC. Others believed the propaganda to the end.

[Tikki]

4. Maybe someone will understand when I say that the young man who volunteered to....

fight that war was just as much a hero as the young man who said NO and moved to Sweden.

Took me a while to figure that out...felt like I was sitting on the fence.

We knew, even though he trained, my husband would never see combat because of a physical profile.
My husband felt the pain of watching the levy posted and guys he knew going to War.

Tikki

[question everything]

11. Agree. I think it was shameful that returning troops were met with contempt

and derision, event some acts of violence.

They believed their government, they remembered the ones who fought in World War I and II and were willing to serve in the cause of defending their country - as were told.

[SunSeeker]

8. I remember neighbors across the street flying a black POW flag during the war.

They had a son who disappeared over there while in combat. His body was never recovered. They were convinced he had been taken prisoner by the North Vietnamese. I guess that was less painful than thinking his bullet-riddled body was decomposing in a rice patty somewhere. I have since moved away from that street, but I bet they are still flying that flag, if they are still alive.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. I am not ready to watch the series yet....

My husband back then spent his first year in the military ( 1964) learning to fly helicopters, and while the news was talking about "advisors" we both knew he was going over there to fight.
And his letters for all of 1965 confirmed that.
So, he was fairly early in, got our safely.
My brother was not as lucky. He got sent over in 1968.

both he and my husband came back very changed, and not for the better.

People should see the movie "Coming Home" after watching the series. Or during.

[Baclava]

12. LBJ was a lying sack of shit, and the fucking French started it and made it worse

You can watch episodes here:

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-vietnam-war/watch/



JFK had it right, it was a scenario of us protecting French colonialism or letting the people of Vietnam decide how to run their county.

So many fuck-ups from LBJ from the start that could have ended the escalation that they ALL knew was an unwinnable war.

Uncle Ho lost control of the North to his generals or they could have won it just by waiting in 1964 for the South's govt. to collapse on it's own, instead of attacking and forcing the US to get more involved. Both sides badly misjudged the other.

[spanone]

13. cannon fodder....that's what i thought when i became 1-A in 1969