"Broken supply chain" in Puerto Rico? How about air drops?

[panader0]

Parachute supplies into areas that are isolated. It's worked on many
previous occasions. No trucks or drivers are needed. Helicopters too.
would be helpful.
WTF?!!

[Not Ruth]

1. How are the locals supposed to reach the air drops?

Let's say that you had no roads, no gas and no electricity. If someone dropped a pallet 20 miles from you or worse on top of you, how would you handle it? You need to drop vehicles and people in the pallets. Which has been done before.

[panader0]

3. Drop them right into the area.

[wasupaloopa]

7. In Vietnam we had dust offs using C130's

They landed on short dirt runways, opened the back door and shoved things off sometimes they didn't land just shoved out the door a few feet off the grand.

[B2G]

11. Designated drop areas

Ones most accessible to the greatest number.

Of course chaos at the drop site would likely ensue.

[Not Ruth]

14. Which means dropping people and vehicles also

[B2G]

16. Yep, no good answers.

The supplies are making it in, there just aren't trucks picking them up for distribution.

You can't just load anyone up with relief supplies and hope they won't make off with the goods and sell it for profit. These drivers need to be vetted. They need gas.

No easy answers.

[Kaleva]

49. Call up units of the National Guard

There ought to hundreds of them in Puerto Rico by now.

[B2G]

51. Puerto Rico has 8400 of their own Guardmen.

Numerous states are or have sent sending more.

You can't just saturate the island willy nilly with additional bodies. They all need to be housed and fed, which takes resources away from the civilians that need help.

[Kaleva]

53. You need the troops to build shelters for the civilians

To provide for security, to set up and operate distribution centers and field hospitals. The US can support many thousands of troops on the other side of the world. It can spport several thousand in nearby Puerto Rico without taking away from the locals.

[B2G]

55. Yes, but you need to be able to support them in theater.

That structure is not yet in place. If you bring in too many people too soon, you are just adding to the problem.

[Kaleva]

60. It's been a week now. There's no excuse.

The initial troops should have been brought in ASAP, setting up for the arrival of more.

[B2G]

61. Their ports and airports were decimated.

But you obviously have all of the answers.

[Blue_Adept]

65. Too many people think it should look like a Hollywood movie in how it gets done

Or that if we did it in WW2 when we had a huge array of resources already in-theater we should be able to do that now instantly.

[B2G]

66. So frustrating.

Why can't people get that it took several days just to ASSESS what they were dealing with?

I think I need to take a break for awhile. I hate Trump too, but reality has gone completely out the window now.

[Blue_Adept]

70. There's a reason I'm here less and less

I'm by no means a trump fan but we're seeing derangement syndrome really taking over basic critical thinking skills.

[Kaleva]

67. Neither of which you need to helo in troops, their equipment and supplies

Our amphib forces in Little Creek, VA are designed to transport and support a sizeable force without the use of ports and airports. This isn't rocket science. The US did this kind of thing very well in the Pacific during WWII.

[Lurker Deluxe]

81. so ...

Those amphib forces were supposed to what? Sail straight through a hurricane to get to PR from VA?

Or do they just press that magic button and pop over the storm?

Guarantee that if one ship got it's ass kicked and sank in the storm you would be saying they should not have gone to sea in the storm.

The Comfort, for sure, would have been crazy risky to send to sea in poor weather. Useless POS that it is.

Comparing a storm response to WWII is not even close to reality. The supply chains and prep for those offensive actions took crazy amounts of resources to accomplish, and damn sure more time than a week.

[Kaleva]

91. Its been a week since the hurricane and it's been quite safe to sail for days now.

Yes it took weeks of planning during WWII for an amphibious operation but they had to account for the resistance of thousands of hard fighting Japanese who would do everything they could to stop the Americans from bringing troops and supplies ashore and build airbases.

Puerto Rico is much closer to the US then the Solomons, Guam, the Philippines, Iwo Jima are and we aren't facing suicidal defenders either.

And as it was known that Puerto Rico was going to be hit hard a few days before it actually happened, the planning and preperation should have begun then.

I was in the Navy when Hurricane Hugo hit South Carolina. Every ship at the Charleston naval base that could get underway did so and we bounced around out there like corks but that was safer then staying tied to the pier.

[Lurker Deluxe]

101. no ...

It has been a week since it hit PR.

Maria was 400 miles off the east coast yesterday ... it is not gone, it is still a storm in the Atlantic.

So, when you were in the Navy Hugo hit PR before the east coast and you were on a ship be "bounced" about like corks.

Why were you not in PR? Pretty much the same situation as now. You know why? Because you do not sail through a storm to get somewhere, you sail away from it. But you know that ... because you were there.

[Kaleva]

106. Were you in the Navy?

By your posts, I assume you weren't.

[dgibby]

69. There's a closed Naval Air Station (Roosevelt Roads)

on the eastern end of PR. Additional troops could be stationed there. When the military comes into a disaster area, they are self-sufficient, and don't take away resources from the local area.

[B2G]

71. They've already reopened it.

The opening of a former base, Naval Station Roosevelt Roads, also will allow more military planes to land. That in turn will free the Luis Munoz Marin International Airport near San Juan to accept commercial flights to and from the U.S. mainland. So far that airport primarily has seen only "relief" flights by commercial carriers, as well as many military flights.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2017/09/as_puerto_rico_struggles_to_re.html

[Lee-Lee]

105. But it does take time to get them in place in a self-sufficient manner

You don't do that in a few hours.

[Lindsay]

2. If your goal is not to offer help,

there are endless excuses you can find for not doing things.

And the Trumpistas are full of excuses.

[TEB]

4. Exactly

They could had the 82nd on the ground in no time or the usmc and navy it is criminal.

[marybourg]

8. Dropping in the 82nd means you have

to now supply the 82nd with everything it needs to survive and function, in addition to the supplies the inhabitants need.

There should have been a well thought out plan in place long before this happened.

[TEB]

13. Yes but eighty deuce is my old alma mater

And they could have provided aid and comfort set up hospitals clear airfield for cargo to come in ,hospitals supplies water food. That is how I was looking at it is all.

[Baconator]

30. To do what exactly?

What are a few thousand infantry types going to add to this?

[TEB]

34. Supplies

Tents generators water Mobile hospitals a little aid can go along way to start

[uponit7771]

35. You got a year? The list of what extra hands can do is long and obvious

[Baconator]

37. Security is an issue but not the biggest...

That's what you bring the 82nd in for.

It's a bunch of 20-year-olds with rifles. Most of the young ones right now feel like shit because they haven't had a chance for combat like the older vets.

You want a bunch of shot civilians the first time there's a scuffle? That's how you get shot civilians after a scuffle.

Seriously... This is the Trump answer to everything. We don't need DoS, FEMA, or any other federal agencies.

We've got the fucking military to everything.

Goddamn it. How fucking stupid can people be? We are not the easy button for people who refuse to think.

[uponit7771]

38. Point being we have resources they just need to be organized and called up and make sure its

... ahead of time.

I don't believe for a split second this ate the fuck up bunch of people in the White House did such, I don't give them the benefit of the doubt in no way.

Somethings fucked up on a major scale in America?

Trump did it, that's the default

[Baconator]

39. That's just fucking lazy...

You want folks to tune out? That's how you get folks to tune out.

[uponit7771]

42. Lazy is Trump gives a shit ... Captain fuck up has fucked up again, that's clear folk can argue ...

... against that all they want.

Would love to see the responses to that position around here

[TEB]

54. I doubt that civilians would be harmed

Infantry soldiers can be the muscle in setting up tents distribution of water fuel those men and women are very highly trained and disciplined and not trigger happy .medical personnel would be of great use we can drop massive amounts of supplies into rural Puerto Rico. The reality is that trump dropped the ball on this and people now reaching the end of their rope.

[metalbot]

77. Dropping in an airborne unit is going to involve casualties

There's no safe way to drop thousands of men, equipment, and supplies by parachute. We use parachutes only when it's less risky than blasting your way through on the ground. Also, when you are doing a drop of a military unit, you generally aren't worried about killing the things that you are dropping on, because in general that's the idea anyway.

[TEB]

78. Agree

In my time with 82nd we had men that were injured but that is the risk. Alls I'm trying to say is that now it is critical on the island, so what better way to get to the people in need in rural areas time is running out. We could bring a lot of needed supplies and keep an airbridge open as in constantly dropping supplies. And it does not have to be a mass tactical operation get a battalion on ground get airfield up and running. Fly in troops heavy haul chinooks and get to the folks in rural country.

[Not Ruth]

5. It makes more sense to use drones to deliver supplies directly to people

Puts supplies directly into their hands

[panader0]

6. Drones cannot carry nearly as much weight as one parachute.

Water, fuel, food and medical supplies.

[Not Ruth]

9. The benefits outweigh the downsides

[atreides1]

20. Not enough

Those drones cannot carry enough!

When the ground portion of Desert Storm began, we sling loaded fuel, ammo, water, and food for the combat units as they moved forward...using CH-47 Chinooks!

As the units reached certain points the supplies were on the ground waiting for them...the same can be done with Puerto Rico.

Have two staging areas, one at the airport for the choppers the other at the docks, where they could use RO/RO ships. Roll On/Roll Off ships don't require the use of cranes to unload...they have a stern ramp that can be lowered onto the dock and the equipment and supplies driven off!

Choppers based at the airfield fly to the docks pick up supplies and fly them to the outer areas...this can keep people supplied with fuel, food, and water. At the same time Naval Construction Battalions and Army Combat Engineers can clear the roads and conduct repairs needed to make the roads passable.

[Baconator]

32. Yeah but we care if a sling load lands on a Puerto Rican...

... or if a mob breaks out and people are killed fighting for supplies.

[uponit7771]

40. Bottom line if we stuck FEMA chiefs in the middle of shit, no water and 120 heat and kept them

... there for a couple of days I'd bet they'd figure some shit out quick.

I don't give the ate up admin in the WH any benefit of the doubt, this straight up looks like another Fine Job Brownie seeing there's just been a general assigned to PR.

[Blue_Adept]

10. so many armchair FEMA directors on DU lately

[B2G]

12. No kidding. nt

[B2G]

15. And while things are dreadful in Puerto Rico,

it's like the US Virgin Islands have been completely forgotten.

And Houston, Florida, the Keys, etc.

Talk about being tested to the max.

[Blue_Adept]

17. lots of professional outrage moments

And a whole lot of lack of understanding how these operations work. Yeah, there's always going to be screwups and lives will sadly be lost because nothing can be 100%, but seeing some of the "why don't they do this?!" kind of outrage not realizing or researching why first just makes me sad. Critical thinking keeps dropping all around.

[B2G]

18. Couldn't agree more.

The threads on the hospital ship Comfort say it all. Thank god for a few educated posters.

[Blue_Adept]

19. I keep expecting "why isn't there an app for recovery planning?" kind of thing

Everything should be instant. Amazon would have had a recovery delivered five days ago!

[B2G]

21. LMAO!

What we need is FEMA Prime. That'll solve everything.

[Blue_Adept]

22. Yeah, but Puerto Rico isn't continental US, so they can't becoming a FEMA Prime member!

Open to residents of the USA only.

[B2G]

23. Drats. Foiled.

[bdamomma]

50. we can get weathermen from the Weather channel

to report on these hurricanes beforehand and we can't get the National Guard to help in strategic places????? This filthy regime knew that this hurricane was going to hit Puerto Rico and they couldn't have sent out National Guardsmen then????

The situation is horrible and needs some sort of overseeing and not that jerk in the WH either.

[B2G]

52. How many should have been sent in prior?

Hundreds, thousands? Send them into the middle of a Cat 5 hurricane and hope they didn't get fucking killed in the process? FEMA did have people and supplies pre-deployed, but if you send in too many bodies and goods prior to the hit, you risk losing those in the storm and an assload more casualties.

Also, you do know that Puerto Rico has a National Guard 8400 strong, right?

[bdamomma]

100. Yes, I knew

Puerto Rico has a National Guard, but they need more help and equipment to help in the clean up and restoration of the island. It is totally the incompetence of our government namely trump who is unaware of the situation.

[sarisataka]

24. I don't think many people

Comprehend the enormity of the problem. While there have been creative suggestions most do not consider how labor and resource intensive such solutions are. Also air based distribution would be wasteful of relief supplies and only maintain people at minimal levels with no feedback as to how many are still going without.


Realistically only the military has the personnel with the training to handle the immediate crisis. Even they are a stopgap solution as the effort must be taken over by civilian resources as they come back online

[Blue_Adept]

25. Exactly. And I don't really begrudge them that either because

it IS hard to wrap your head around these kinds of problems.

I have zero faith in Trump. None. But I have a good bit in FEMA after everything they've done in the past ten years to right the ship after Katrina.

I have faith in the military side doing what's necessary and working to achieve the right goals.

But the workings of a large scale government churns slowly and even though people wanted stuff there day one after the hurricane it's just unrealistic. These things take time because of the scale and really making sure what's needed is ready. Never mind that resources were already stretched from Texas and Florida's events.

I can only imagine how they'd react to the machines of war that were employed in slow form during WW2.

[Not Ruth]

26. Does the UN step in at some point?

This is the sort of thing that they specialize in.


http://www.unfoundation.org/what-we-do/legacy-of-impact/technology/disaster-relief-deployments/

EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS FOR DISASTER RELIEF DEPLOYMENT ARCHIVE
4 0 194
When disaster strikes, the immediate needs are obvious: food, water, shelter, and medical supplies. But none of these necessities will reach survivors without the largely invisible communication networks that must be set up quickly to enable relief workers to save lives.
Recognizing the vitality of strong telecommunications networks for humanitarian relief efforts, the United Nations Foundation and Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership has jointly developed a robust emergency communications program that brings resources and mobile technology infrastructure to support the critical role of communications in disaster response.
The Technology Partnership supports the work of the UN World Food Programme (WFP)—the UN's food relief agency, with a specialized team of telecommunications emergency managers—and the non-governmental organization Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF), which deploys to disaster at the request of UN agencies.

2011
Japan (March, 2011) - A magnitude 9.0 earthquake struck Japan on March 11, 2011, triggering a devastating tsunami. With the death toll in the thousands and rising, and more than 10,000 people missing, communications are critical to an effective humanitarian relief operation, yet communications capabilities have been limited by the destruction.

TSF has deployed a team to Japan to assess telecommunications needs of the local population and emergency workers. Using portable satellite communications equipment, they stand at the ready to provide voice and data communications for aid workers who rely on these tools to coordinate logistics and deliver life-saving supplies.

Libya (March, 2011) - Amidst ongoing violence across Libya, thousands of refugees are fleeing the country across the Tunisian border. With support from the UN Foundation & Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership, a team of telecommunications experts from Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) deployed to the Ras Ajdir frontier post where they are providing refugees with free phone calls to anywhere in the world to share news with their families, receive a mental break or ask for a personal assistance.

Experts on site, working alongside Tunisian authorities, have been overwhelmed by a massive and continuous inflow of refugees from Libya and nationals from Egypt, Tunisia, Somalia, Vietnam, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Korea, and Morocco. From February 25th to March 3rd, more than 3,650 calls were offered to the displaced populations, mainly for Egypt and Bangladesh.

In parallel, TSF has opened emergency connections and is providing vital ICT support (Internet, telephone, and fax) to the UNHCR teams and the Tunisian Red Crescent based at the Ras Ajdir frontier post.

Listen to a podcast from TSF team member Florian Vichot on the ground in Tunisia.

2010
Sudan (December, 2010) - Sudan, with its volatile security situation, lack of infrastructure and its remote locations, is one of the most logistically complex and challenging environments for humanitarian operations.

In the lead up to the January 2011 referendum on South Sudan’s independence, the World Food Program (WFP) leveraged funding from the Vodafone Foundation and United Nations Foundation, to send Senior Telecommunication Specialist Michael Dirksen to Southern Sudan to strengthen the preparedness of the 12 sub-offices in the region.

Michael is a seven year veteran of WFP Dubai’s fast intervention team (FITTEST), and has completed WFP’s IT Emergency Management Training course that is open to the global community of humanitarian first responders, and that also is funded by the United Nations Foundation and Vodafone Foundation partnership.

Côte d’Ivoire (December, 2010) - Since an attempted coup in 2002, Côte d'Ivoire, once one of west Africa’s most stable and prosperous nations, has been divided in two. Since then, it is estimated that nearly 800,000 people have been displaced from their homes. The prolonged crisis in Côte d'Ivoire has created a complex humanitarian emergency, and disrupted the country’s food security.
UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay cited evidence of "massive" violations in Ivory Coast, saying over 50 people had been killed over the span of three days alone and raising concern over reports of deaths in detention. To undergird the communications for the humanitarian relief effort, Mr. Prakash Muniandy, Regional Emergency Telecommunications Cluster (ETC) officer, was deployed to Côte d’Ivoire to support the emergency efforts of the WFP country office, as well as carry out an assessment of the ICT capacity of the humanitarian community in the country. During his one month mission, Prakash assisted the humanitarian community in Côte d’Ivoire in ensuring that the security telecommunications infrastructure was in place. This would allow staff to communicate in the event that the GSM network or other regular means of communications were disabled due to the unrest.
Prakash is a member of the WFP Inter-Agency emergency response team that is on standby in the WFP regional offices ready to deploy and support in any emergency operation. His deployment was funded by the Vodafone Foundation, United Nations Foundation and WFP Partnership.


Colombia (November, 2010) - According to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, more than 300 people were killed and another 300 wounded or missing due to the massive flooding caused by months-long torrential rains. In total, over 2 million people were affected by the disaster. The Northern region of the country was hit hardest by the flooding, with the La Guajira, Atlantico, Magdalena and Bolivar reporting hundreds of thousands affected.
In response, the UN Foundation and Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership funded the emergency deployment of a team of telecommunications specialists from Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) to assess damage to the communications infrastructure and provide vital technical support for UN agencies and NGOs working on the ground.

Pakistan (August, 2010) - Torrential rains in Pakistan triggered devastating floods, creating what has been called the worst humanitarian disaster in the country’s history. Millions of people were affected by the flooding, with the death toll estimated at over 1,500. In response, the UN Foundation and Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership funded the emergency deployment of a team of telecommunications specialists from the UN World Food Programme (WFP) and Telecoms Sans Frontieres (TSF) to provide vital technical support for UN agencies and NGOs responding to the crisis. Both teams established multiple communications centers throughout the country equipped with internet, phone and radio capabilities. In addition, within two days after the disaster TSF had provided free phone calls to 612 families living in temporary camps and shelters. These calls were often the first chance survivors had to reach family and loved ones since they were forced from their homes.
Listen to a podcast from the WFP IT team leader on the ground in Pakistan.



Kyrgyzstan (June, 2010) -
Ethnic tensions in Kyrgyzstan triggered the worst violence in 20 years forcing an estimated 100,000 to flee from their homes. To undergird the humanitarian relief effort, teams of telecommunications experts from TSF and WFP deployed to provide emergency communications with funding by the United Nations Foundation & Vodafone Foundation.
On the ground, WFP and TSF quickly establish telecommunications centers to support the humanitarian community working in the region. In addition to enabling the coordinated delivery of food aid, these satellite-based communications networks provide aid workers with secure and reliable connections from the heart of the crisis, and help reconnect families affected by the crisis.


Chile (February, 2010) - A devastating earthquake of magnitude 8.8 struck Chile on February 27, 2010. With at least 700 people killed and more than 2 million people affected, President Michelle Bachelet called for urgent international help and indicated that their priority was to get communications functioning. TSF immediately deployed a crew of telecom experts in emergency telecommunications to set up calling and communications centers.



Haiti (January, 2010) - After an earthquake of magnitude 7.0 crippled the communications infrastructure in Haiti in January 2010, TSF set up free call centers in the capital Port-au-Prince using satellite technology and equipment funded by the UN Foundation & Vodafone Foundation. For many families, the centers provided the first connection with the outside world since the earthquake hit, and helped them reconnect with loved ones. Read the story of impact.



2009
Northern & Western Pakistan (May 22-June 10, 2009) - After a rise in violent conflict between government troops and Taliban insurgents in Pakistan, over 3 millions Pakistanis were forced from their homes in the midst of what has been the largest and the swiftest displacement of people to take place anywhere in the world in recent years.
Supported by the UN Foundation & Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership, and in collaboration with UN agencies and non-governmental organizations, a team of telecommunications experts from Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) deployed to the war-torn region to provide humanitarian aid workers with satellite-based communications tools. In temporary camps throughout the region, the team also offered free phone calls to displaced persons so that they could give news to their families. Separate services dedicated to women were also established in and outside the camps, enabling the women to contact relatives in Pakistan or abroad.
With support from the Partnership, two ICT Emergency Preparedness and Response officers from the UN World Food Program (WFP) also deployed to the region. These telecoms experts assessed the situation on the ground to identify and fill gaps in security communications services supporting the food relief and other humanitarian efforts underway. The WFP team also and provided technical and telecommunications expertise to agencies working in the affected areas.
Due to security issues, the humanitarian community and both teams of telecoms experts faced significant challenges in providing assistance to the internally displaced populations. Following the bombing of the Hotel Intercontinental Pearl in Peshawar on June 10, both teams, whose members were staying at the hotel, were evacuated from the country.


Dungu, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) (January 22-February 14, 2009) - TSF returned to the Dungu region of DRC on an emergency mission to reestablish secure internet connections after a rebel attack the local communications infrastructure. The renewed connection benefitted a number of UN agencies and NGOs working to coordinate aid among refugee camps in the region.
A few months prior, in November of 2008, UNICEF had requested the support of TSF in Dungu, where no traditional communications were available. With funding from the UN Foundation and Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership, TSF successfully established an emergency telecommunications center to support the humanitarian community working in the region. In addition to installing satellite-based phone, internet and fax lines, TSF also ran humanitarian calling operations within the refugee camps, providing over 2,000 families with a free, 3-minute phone call to reconnect with loved ones.

Iraq (February 2009) - After the war in 2003, thousands of Iraqis of Palestinian origin were forced from their homes and into temporary settlements in the deserts of Iraq. Al Waleed camp is home to over 1,500 refugees who are surviving without electricity, running water, or proper shelter or medical care. Working with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) visited the isolated camp to conduct a telecommunications assessment based on the needs of the population and the humanitarian organizations working there.
During the assessment, funded by the UN Foundation – Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership, it was established that improved satellite connections could facilitate UNHCR's efforts to find a new home for the people at Al Waleed. Satellite-based internet and phone lines also could support education and training programs to help prepare the population for resettlement. TSF intends to return to Al Waleed to help implement these communications networks and help provide a life line for refugees in the camp to increase contact with family and loved ones they've left behind.

2008

Afghanistan (2008) – In Afghanistan, the average life expectancy is just 43 and only about 28% of adults can read and write. More than a third of Afghans don’t get enough to eat ever day, and this number has been rising due to natural disasters and years of war and political instability.

To ensure and support safe operations for the entire humanitarian community working in Afghanistan, the UN World Food Programme’s emergency ICT (Information Communication Technology) team deployed to Afghanistan to help to establish a fully functional and reliable security telecommunications system in the country. The team worked to ensure the availability of secure radio networks, upgraded existing systems, and deployed new equipment for UN agencies and affiliated NGOs. Twenty-one aid groups benefitted from these services, which have supported the work of over 6,000 UN staff and 1,200 NGO staff.

To ensure the sustainability of the system, UN and NGO staff also received training from WFP’s telecommunications experts on how to properly utilize the security telecommunications networks and equipment.


Democratic Republic of the Congo (December 2008): Conflict in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) escalated steadily after a ceasefire agreement between Laurent Nkunda's National Congress for the Defense of the People and the Congolese government broke down in August 2008. It is estimated that over 1.8 million people have been affected, many of which have fled into other regions in DRC or neighboring Uganda.
To ease the humanitarian crisis, the UN Foundation and Vodafone Foundation Technology Partnership funded two emergency communications for disaster response deployments: WFP’s ICT (Information Communications Technology) team to North and South Kivu provinces; and Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) to Matanda, Uganda.
WFP deployed two emergency communications managers to support the ICT officer already based in DRC, where the team focused primarily on reestablishing communications for aid agencies operating in North and South Kivu provinces—areas marked by heavy fighting and large populations of displaced persons. In addition to providing communications for the delivery of food aid, the WFP team provided security communications and data services for aid agencies including UNHCR and UNICEF.
To help reconnect refugees with loved ones separated by the crisis, TSF established “humanitarian calling operations” in Uganda near the DRC border, such as in the Matanda transit camp where 10,000 people were housed in temporary shelter 18 miles (30 kilometers) from the border. TSF also installed a satellite-based Internet connection to support communications by aid agencies in Kihihi, a small town-turned-humanitarian-base camp 30 minutes from Matanda.
Click here to see TSF’s work on the ground, and here to listen to a podcast from WFP’s Oscar Caleman, reporting from Uganda.

Panama (November 2008 ): Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) deployed to flood-ridden regions of Panama immediately after the Panamanian President declared a state of emergency, requesting support in the areas of information management, logistics and coordination.

The floods left thousands homeless, and seriously damaged communications and other infrastructure necessary to coordinate the relief effort.
Working on the ground with the United Nations Disaster Assessment and Coordination (UNDAC) team, TSF’s emergency specialists installed satellite-based telecommunications systems to support and facilitate relief efforts in the affected areas. Through broadband internet, phone and fax lines, TSF enabled humanitarian workers to effectively communicate and deliver vital aid to those most in need.


Hargeisa, Somalia (October 2008): Five suicide bombers attacked government and UN offices in northern Somalia, killing at least 21 people and leaving a number of others critically injured. The UN Development Program office in Hargeisa was targeted in the attack, which killed two UN staff members and badly damaged the building and its communications systems.
The World Food Programme (WFP), as the UN's lead agency tasked with security communications in emergency situations, immediately deployed in response to the crisis. WFP's team of telecommunications specialists brought essential technology and telecommunications tools to the region to reestablish secure lines of communication and provide technical support throughout the recovery effort.


Honduras (October 2008): A tropical depression in Central American caused months of sustained rainfall, ultimately leading to a dangerous rise in water levels throughout the region. In Honduras, widespread flooding devastated nearly the entire country and forced hundreds of thousands from their homes. As a result of recent deforestation, the country has been rendered especially vulnerable to land and mudslides, which cause further damage to crops and aggravate the effects of the global food crisis.
Télécoms Sans Frontières' (TSF) emergency managers immediately deployed to Honduras to provide technical and telecommunications support for United Nations Disaster Assessment and Coordination (UNDAC) teams working on the ground. TSF's telecommunications tools and expertise provide vital support during UNDAC field assessments, as workers attempted to measure the severity of the disaster and identify those most in need of humanitarian assistance.


Balochistan, Pakistan (October 29-November 12, 2008): Reacting to a 6.5 earthquake in Pakistan, Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) deployed a team of emergency telecommunications specialist to provide vital technical and communications support to aid workers responding to the crisis on the ground. In addition to killing more than 300 people, the quake badly damaged the region's communications infrastructure, cutting off phone lines and leaving the population even more helpless.
Using satellite-based telecommunications tools, TSF established a humanitarian calling operation in the region, providing survivors with free 3-minute phone calls to give news to their families and reconnect with loved ones. Additionally, TSF ensured that rescue teams were equipped with sufficient communications means to be able to respond to the disaster and communicate right at the heart of the crisis.

Click here to listen to a podcast from TSF’s Head of Mission in Pakistan, and here to view a video of the conditions on the ground and TSF’s efforts to provide communications support to survivors.


Tbilisi, Georgia (August 13-September 6, 2008): The violent conflict that abruptly arose between Russian and Georgian troops over the breakaway region of South Ossetia forced an estimated 160,000 civilians and into crowded temporary shelters with scarce food, water and electricity, and limited communications with the outside world.

Telecommunications experts from the UN World Food Programme’s ICT (Information Communications Technology) team immediately deployed to the region, where shipments of radios, satellite phones and supplies helped to bolster communications between humanitarian aid workers in the country.
Télécoms Sans Frontières’ (TSF) telecommunications managers also deployed to establish mobile internet connections to follow UNHCR field assessment teams working in Western Georgia. These secure mobile connections enabled reports to be sent in real time, allowing for quick response and coordinated distribution of aid.

TSF team members also established a humanitarian calling operation for displaced Georgians in Tbilisi. As a result, more than 300 families were able to get in touch with loved ones who had been displaced during the conflict.


Gonaives, Haiti (September 3-October 3, 2008): In August and September 2008, four consecutive cyclones – Fay, Gustav, Hanna and Ike – devastated Haiti, killing hundreds, displacing thousands, and destroying vital crops.
The successive storms had severely damaged Haiti's communications infrastructure, making outside telecommunications support an essential part of the humanitarian assistance mission.
Once again, the UN Foundation's Technology Program supported the use of mobile technology to help reconnect families, aid workers and emergency response missions during this crisis.
Emergency telecommunications officers from both the UN World Food Programme (WFP)—the UN's food relief agency—and the non-governmental organization Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) deployed immediately to support the ongoing relief effort.
TSF and WFP brought in tools like mobile satellite data transmitters to power phone, fax and data lines, enabling relief workers to communicate with one another and back to their headquarters about the situation and needs on the ground.
In addition, TSF's telecoms specialists offered humanitarian calling operations, reconnecting affected families with loved ones through free, 3-minute phone calls.
Click here to listen to a podcast from WFP's Coordination Officer on the ground in Haiti, and here to listen to Oison Watson of TSF describe their work in the devastated region.


Yangon, Myanmar (June 1, 2008): In May 2008, category 3 Cyclone Nargis tore through Myanmar's Irrawaddy Delta, killing over 130,000 people and causing catastrophic damage to the country's largest and most densely populated region. With communications networks across the area completely destroyed by the storm, relief workers' ability to act quickly to provide life-saving assistance was significantly hampered.
After weeks of delay by the Burmese government, telecommunications experts from the UN World Food Programme (WFP) successfully deployed to the region to establish emergency communications networks, finally providing relief workers with access to life-saving technology and telecommunications tools.
By establishing satellite-based internet and phone connections, computers, routers, fax machines and printers, WFP's emergency telecommunications centers enabled UN agencies and humanitarian organizations to quickly and efficiently coordinate essential relief efforts in the region, saving both time and lives.
Click here to listen to a podcast from WFP's Regional Telecommunications Officer on the ground in Yangon.


Zambezi River Valley, Mozambique (February 5-March 26, 2008): In response to a second round of heavy flooding in the Zambezi River Valley, Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) and the UN World Food Programme deployed teams of emergency telecommunications specialists to support recovery efforts in the area and surrounding regions. WFP’s ICT experts established emergency communications centers in neighboring Malawi as well as in Mozambique, where TSF also worked to establish emergency satellite-based telecoms systems.
After weeks of heavy rains, over 100,000 people were displaced from their homes. In Caia, the worst hit area, 17 resettlement centers were wiped out after the river reached 3 meters above flood level.
The emergency telecommunications systems established by WFP and TSF provided aid agencies with broadband connectivity for the Internet, email, voice and fax lines. These lines of communication made it possible to quickly coordinate recovery efforts in the already devastated region.
Click here to listen to a podcast about TSF's Oison Walton in Mozambique and here to hear from WFP's Robert Kasca working on the ground on Malawi.


Bolivia (January 26-February 9, 2008): Months of heavy rains in Bolivia forced rivers to overflow their banks in more than 9 districts throughout the southern region of the country. As a result of the enduring rains and floods, at least 30 people were killed, over 40,000 families affected, and crops, roads, and communications systems destroyed.
In response to the Bolivian government's official declaration of a national state of emergency, Télécoms Sans Frontières (TSF) immediately deployed a team of telecommunications specialists to support and help coordinate recovery efforts in the region.
TSF's rapid response communications team installed satellite-based telecommunications centers, offering broadband internet connections, phone, and fax lines to UN agencies and other humanitarian aid organizations working on the ground.







PARTNERS

[sarisataka]

29. Typically the UN doesn't step in

They are invited. Even if we ask, the same issues are present in PR. We can simplly shove supplies into the port faster than they can be moved out

[FLPanhandle]

27. +1

They are the same ones who were evacuation "experts" before the storm. Of course, none of these experts have ever been through a major hurricane and it's aftermath before, but they know best....

[Blue_Adept]

36. Oh those folks needed to be throttled

It was akin to lifelong Arizona residents telling new englanders how to handle a blizzard.

[Baconator]

33. Absolutely...

[uponit7771]

44. I'm not going to excuse Captain Fuck Up and The Tow Down KKKlan from their obvious fuck up here

... and neither is Gen Honore' ... I'll, side with that guy anytime

[obnoxiousdrunk]

45. +1 . n/t

[Orsino]

28. The sky is big.

It's a very big sky.

[niyad]

31. drones????

[Lee-Lee]

41. Do you have any idea the logistics it takes for an air drop?

You don't just go push things out of a plane.

First, you need a Rigger Company on the ground. There are only a handful of Rigger Companies in the Army, it's a very low deinsitt skillset. Only Riggers can prep pallets for a drop.

So you have to first get the rigger company to the island with all their gear needed to rig the items for airdrop. That would take up several flights of aircraft that then can't bring in supplies.

Then every sortie flew for an airdrop is one plane and mission that won't be bringing supplies to the island.

You need a usable drop zone. That means a large area that is open and relatively flat. You can't just drop supplies over trees and homes because the items will get damaged, property that survived will get damaged and the is a huge risk of injury if things are hung up in trees and people are trying to get them loose.

Lastly, you can't drop enough supplies to help 1% of PRs population if you used every possible resource the Army has available to rig and the USAF has to drop. Airdrop is the most resource and labor intensive means or getting supplies to a destination with the lowest amount of supplies delivered.

It's a much better use of resources to keep bringing assists to airfields and keep trying to get the roads back to being open and passable.

[B2G]

46. Stop harshing our buzz.

[uponit7771]

62. We've done hard things before, take competent leadership and America doesn't have that now

[Lee-Lee]

72. So in other words, you don't know

Here is news for you- the airdrop logistics are the exact same today as they were one year ago today and who is in the White House hasn't changed that one bit.

I get that Trumps a failure, but don't move past him into the realm of bashing the military because they didn't accomplish what isn't logistically possible or they chose a path that makes more sense from a logistics standpoint that you just don't comprehend. Because when you claim its failure because things didn't happen that logistically are not possible in many cases or unwise uses of resources in others that's what you are doing.

[uponit7771]

74. Nope but it sounds like we BOTH agree that its possible but hard. With better leadership ...

... the hard would've been done.

It would be easier if Captain Fuck Up wasn't focused on NFL and other stupid shit

[Lee-Lee]

75. So how would it have been done?

[uponit7771]

82. We already agree that it can be done and that it would be hard right? tia

[Lee-Lee]

83. You clearly did comprehend what I explained

Had you actually comprehended what I posed you would grasp that the biggest issue is not only that it's hard, but it would be such a huge drain on resources that it would be counterproductive.

Every flight that delivers a small amount via airdrop is a plane that can't deliver far more to the ground, coupled with the logistics of getting riggers there and moving the supplies they need to do the drop means even more planes can't deliver more supplies.

So it would not just be hard- in the big picture it would be STUPID because to make a few airdrops that would not not be enough to even be a drop in the bucket what is needed you would have to divert resources away that could be better used to get a much, much, much larger amount of supplies in to the airfield and unloaded on the ground.

So I'm asking you again- how would you do it. And by that I mean what supplies headed that way are you going to not send or delay in order to free up aircraft for drops? How many aircraft will you pull away from taking supplies to the island to divert to airdrops? What medical personaell or engineers or Seabees or others are you not going to send to the island so you can send parachute riggers in their place?

I already know you don't have any answer, just pouting out you don't have the first clue what your talking about.

[B2G]

86. You're wasting your breath.

They only care about screaming at the top of their lungs.

[uponit7771]

89. 1. No on said just airplanes 2. Ad hom via condescension is an indicator of a weak position, it was

... a simple question can it be done or not.

Yes, with huge drain ...

No, Not at all

would've sufficed

I don't believe it would be a huge drain or that it could only be just a few drops that makes absolutely no sense seeing there are plenty of helicopters in this country and no one is saying drop 343 months of food per distribution location either.

Get something done now even if its on a small costly scale.

Question, what would happen if a lot of people were totally cut off and couldn't get to a place for water etc?

Just let them die?

I don't believe that for second either.

[Lee-Lee]

96. What are you airdropping from if you don't mean airplanes??

The problem here is words have meanings to people who know what they are talking about.

Airdrop means supplies or equipment dropped via parachute. That is only done from cargo aircraft.

You may have meant from a helicopter or drone or carried in by Tinkerbell. But what you repeatedly demanded as someone only down via cargo aircraft and parachute.

Supplies brought in under a helicopter in a sling are known as a slingload, not an airdrop, as one example. You say you want airdrops that means cargo aircraft and parachutes.

If you call 911 and scream for an ambulance when you mean the fire department don't get mad when the truck that shows up can't put out the fire because you were demanding the wrong thing. Same thing applies here- if you can't even use the right terms when arguing with people who actually know what they are talking about don't get mad when they respond to what you said, not what you might have been thinking.

This is an airdrop:


https://m.

It is very resource intensive and takes a long time to prep the laid because everything has to be done just right for such a complex operation with such high risk to be done safely, and it requires a cargo plane. It can only be done where there is a very large open and cleared area with no trees or fences to land in, like 10 football fields big

This is a slingload:

https://m.

Still dangerous, but it's much less resource intensive and doesn't take cargo aircraft out of the business of moving supplies to the island. Biggest hurdle is that the aircraft and support crews- maintenance and fuel and ground crews and all the life support for the crews like feeding, etc. Once the aircraft and crews are in place they can move supplies pretty quick as long as weather conditions are favorable. It can be done with very limited space on the ground for an LZ compared to an airdrop.

[uponit7771]

98. Ask Gen Honore' he suggested airdrops also.

[uponit7771]

99. Here's how they treated Haiti (link)

Before dawn the next morning, an Army unit was airborne, on its way to seize control of the main airport in Port-au-Prince. Within two days, the Pentagon had 8,000 American troops en route. Within two weeks, 33 U.S. military ships and 22,000 troops had arrived. More than 300 military helicopters buzzed overhead, delivering millions of pounds of food and water.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-responded-to-haiti-quake-more-forcefully-than-to-puerto-rico-disaster/2017/09/28/74fe9c02-a465-11e7-8cfe-d5b912fabc99_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_mariaresponse-815pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f5b60f2927d4

[Lurker Deluxe]

104. yea

Were there earthquakes in Texas one month prior? Two weeks before was there an earthquake in Florida? Did the entire Caribbean suffer from earthquakes on the same day as Haiti?

"an Army unit was airborne, on its way to seize control of the main airport"

That would lead me to believe the airport was "controlled" by someone else so it has to be taken ... not the case in PR. Haiti is also three times the size and population, lot more room to put stuff.

From your linked article:

In Haiti, the United States was able to deploy active military combat brigades, quickly install a military commander and militarize the airspace at the invitation of Haitian officials.

If that was being done in PR this place would be on fire saying that Trump was taking over PR and violating all sorts of laws.

From your article:

In Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories, the nearly 140-year-old Posse Comitatus Act limits the role that active military personnel can play.

Maj. Gen. James C. Witham, director of domestic operations for the National Guard Bureau, said that immediately after Maria’s landfall, Puerto Rico requested only communications equipment and fewer than 200 military police officers.

“Let’s make this clear — this is an operation of the government of Puerto Rico,” Rosselló said. “We set the priorities. . . . We are taking action, and there are results.”

In Haiti:

Air Force combat control teams were in the air the next morning. The airport, which became “the island’s lifeline,” Keen said, was secure and operational by nightfall.

Very different situation in Haiti ... we took over, invaded as it were. We can not do that in PR.

[tazkcmo]

43. The Berlin airlifts

That's what I have been wondering. How could we have kept a city surrounded by Soviet troops in East Germany fed while just next door hell reigns. These idiots can break a ball bearing.

[Lee-Lee]

47. A few differences

It took the Berlin Airlift several weeks to get running and many more to get up to the full capacity. It didn't happen in a week.

The Air Force at the time had far more aircraft than it does now, and more pilots.

If you allowed the same time scale to plan and ramp up they could probably come close to the same amount or cargo moved today given that while there are fewer aircraft they are larger- but you don't just make that happen overnight.

[tazkcmo]

48. The point is

This isn't rocket science.

[Lee-Lee]

56. It's actually very complicated

Despite the keyboard experts who maintain is as easy as just flying some planes there

[Blue_Adept]

57. Actually, the point is that it actually is science

Logistics is not based on emotional responses on how to do things. It's based on doing it as effectively and as quickly as possible, but also realistically based on the situation at hand.

If you think it's not rocket science then you're painfully unaware of what's actually involved in it.

[gejohnston]

58. yes and no,

While the USAF and RAF had more planes, but they had less payload. A C-130 can carry 16K while a C-47/Dakota had a payload of 3K. If the runways can handle C-5s and C-17s, so much the better. The good news is that (from what I understand) the ports are open.

[Lee-Lee]

68. The workhorse of the Berlin Airlist was the C-54

It had a maximum cargo capacity of 32,000 pounds.

The DOD had right at 500 in inventory at the start of the airlift. Plus even more C-47s and C-46s RJ fill gaps.

The entire DOD inventory of C-130's now is about 325 and not all are cargo capable.

It really is a much smaller airlift capability we have right now as compared to them, overall.

[Kaleva]

80. The Berlin Airlift began two days after the blockade began.

It did take several weeks to get up to full speed.

[malaise]

59. You know way more than these morons about logistics

They're posing way above their mental capacity grade.

[B2G]

63. So now you're as disaster relief specialist?

You're in good company here.

[panader0]

76. "Oh, it can't be done! It's better to let the supplies sit on

the docks and argue about what to do. I'm paralyzed!"

[panader0]

64. It seems as if some want to make the good the enemy of the perfect.

Air drops would help. If I was stranded in a remote village, I would be thrilled
to see the parachutes with food and water.

[Lee-Lee]

73. So you airdrop enough for 50 instead of flying to an airport enough for 250

Because that's the proportional difference in what can delivered by each method.

You don't make new planes for airdrops so you use one that then can't be delivered far more supplies more efficiently by offloading at an airport.

It's not a case of good vs perfect. It's a case of throwing away much better to do much less because people who don't grasp the science of logistics are screaming for it.

[Adrahil]

84. Why either/or?

Use more traditional distribution where it makes sense and use Helios to get supplies to remote/cut-off locations.

[Lee-Lee]

94. Are you taking helicopters or airdrops?

They are not the same things.

An airdrop is using a cargo aircraft to deliver supplies or people via parachute.

So every mission flown to do an airdrop requires taking a cargo plane away from bring supplies to the island. It is an either/or decision for that plane, they can't fly two missions at the same time.

Distribution via helicopter, internally or via slingload, is not the same as an airdrop.

There are helicopters and the support personnel hitting the ground now from at least CONUS based I am aware of.

[Adrahil]

97. Yeah, I've worked in aviation for

27 years. I know the difference. C-130
Drops may make sense in some cases. But for the really remote areas, helicopters or Ospreys make more sense.

[uponit7771]

107. +1.

[lunatica]

79. They could air drop gasoline, vehicles, and even bulldozers if they wanted to.

There's very large helicopters that can carry heavy payloads

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrTcch2XM1Zuu4AQJQPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=helicopter+that+can+carry+heavy+payloads&fr=yhs-adk-adk_sbnt&hspart=adk&hsimp=yhs-adk_sbnt

[Lurker Deluxe]

85. brilliant

Airdropping gasoline ... what could go wrong there?

Amazing. You do realize there is a reason all military vehicles are diesel, right?

Why would you airdrop a bulldozer? You have to get the bulldozer to the area first ... fill it up and clear roads or pick it up with a plane and move it 200 miles and drop it ... brilliant. Or do you think they fly the bulldozer from somewhere in the US to drop it?

Maybe we should get a couple of Hollywood directors involved ...

[B2G]

87. Well I mean look at the screen name.

[lunatica]

95. Stay classy

The military have been doing what I said for decades, but they’re obviously lunatics, right?

Your ignorance is on display.

[lunatica]

90. You could do it the exact same way the military do

Or are you smarter than them too?

Gasoline or diesel can be lowered gently since it’s a helicopter. Same for any heavy machinery.

Maybe you aren’t as “brilliant” as you think you are.

[Lurker Deluxe]

102. As posted above

"lowered gently" by a helo is not an air drop ...

You do not "drop" fuel.

So ... maybe get your terms right so not to seem uninformed.

[OkSustainAg]

88. Special forces are designed to

set up whole community support in the event of NBC catastrophe. The military can organize the locals to help gather and locate drops of supplies. These are Americans not enemy combatants. Organize local s with skills.

[LAS14]

92. I started watching for this a week ago! Terrible! nt

[krispos42]

93. We own the seas

Seems to me that we should be moving supplies ashore from our amphibious assault ships directly to the shoreline cities and towns. Right up the beaches. And 'phibs have decent hospital services aboard; they can act as a community hospital until things get sorted out a bit better.

I'm also pretty sure that Marine armored vehicles can help clear the roads of trees, but it will take combat engineers to make rapid, temporary fixes to damage/missing roads and bridges.

[samnsara]

103. damn right..they do this all the time for unreachable areas...

...of course someone needs to be in charge of the drop or the whole shipment will be hi-jacked.

AND why are they selling ice for 1.50 a bag..why doesn't (whoever) hand out frozen ice packs..that the ppl can exchange out next time they have to get in line. Sure initially sell the ice packs for 1.50 or whatever but they would exchange them out for free and everyone saves money. Ive had those ice packs stay frozen (and then eventually just ice cold) for days in just a Styrofoam chest....or hand out small pieces of dry ice. I used a chunk of that in the fridge in my cabin and it lasted a WHOLE WEEK.