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mfcorey1

(11,001 posts)
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 01:41 PM Oct 2017

Ignorant is too harsh: 13 grammatical mistakes that instantly reveal people's ignorance

All it takes is a single tweet or text for some people to reveal their poor grasp of the English language.
Homophones — words that sound alike but are spelled differently — can be particularly pesky.
Regardless, you should never choose incorrectly in these nine situations:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/smart-living/13-grammatical-mistakes-that-instantly-reveal-peoples-ignorance/ss-AAsSriY?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

149 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ignorant is too harsh: 13 grammatical mistakes that instantly reveal people's ignorance (Original Post) mfcorey1 Oct 2017 OP
#6 to this day gets me, none of the others but that one Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #1
How did it affect you? leftstreet Oct 2017 #2
Sometimes, I have trouble with that one too. Alice11111 Oct 2017 #6
Autocorrect messes that one up a lot. Dave Starsky Oct 2017 #11
Actually, it is always changing meanings and spellings Alice11111 Oct 2017 #12
Isn't technology wonderful? Dave Starsky Oct 2017 #17
I've been told that my article on "affect" vs. "effect" is particularly clear and easy to read: tblue37 Oct 2017 #23
Reading now, thanks Eliot Rosewater Oct 2017 #24
That is definitely one where I tend to give people a pass. Pacifist Patriot Oct 2017 #42
"Affective disorder" is a real medical term LeftInTX Oct 2017 #65
I can see this devolving into a "I hate that word/phrase" thread mitch96 Oct 2017 #3
You can also say, "That was such fun." hedda_foil Oct 2017 #32
"different" also needs a modifier. Saviolo Oct 2017 #92
I'm not sure about that - "Well, that was different" can be a commentary csziggy Oct 2017 #132
It's amuzing, to be sure Saviolo Oct 2017 #143
#10 gives me trouble Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #4
Trump has worse ones: heel vs heal GusBob Oct 2017 #5
Bigly Alice11111 Oct 2017 #7
I Notice the Awkward Russian Ones, Too Leith Oct 2017 #13
Agreed. Suffice it to say they are much different than the 13 above GusBob Oct 2017 #22
Actually, That Is a Mistake That a Native Speaker Would Say Leith Oct 2017 #79
The trolls don't care, really. Dave Starsky Oct 2017 #25
Good points, "Dumb it down" GusBob Oct 2017 #44
Masterfully played. Dave Starsky Oct 2017 #77
I also see this on some Amazon reviews. phylny Oct 2017 #135
Yelp has it's outliers also mitch96 Oct 2017 #140
Trump's a looser. nt Buns_of_Fire Oct 2017 #84
amount vs number niyad Oct 2017 #8
I want the Big Book of GoT Grammar! Salviati Oct 2017 #18
Coincidentally, I have been keeping a list of similar mistakes I encountered on DU this week Glorfindel Oct 2017 #9
Some of Them Are Pretty Bad Leith Oct 2017 #10
My favorite right-wing stupidity: "We need less government and taxes!" Glorfindel Oct 2017 #20
One That Bugs Me ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #36
YES!! Leith Oct 2017 #76
Yes, me vs. I TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #51
Lol. He did that today, "for Melania and I..." Hortensis Oct 2017 #66
*I* didn't grow up in a highly educated family TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #71
Should have phrased it better. Sounds like your family was more Hortensis Oct 2017 #125
Whoops, posted mine below but didn't see you'd already covered it. reflection Oct 2017 #63
All of them irk me. procon Oct 2017 #14
Yes "how to teachers" do that? mythology Oct 2017 #21
I taught the same lessons to both my 6th and first graders. BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #95
I know, I finally turned off the damned autocorrect. procon Oct 2017 #99
I imagine I would not like hanging around with you. nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #109
I make a lot of those mistakes in emails and texts marylandblue Oct 2017 #15
Whom ate my sangwich? n/t LuckyCharms Oct 2017 #16
That instead of who drives me nuts. Thirties Child Oct 2017 #19
Healthy instead of healthful, as in, "be sure to choose healthy vegetables." Glorfindel Oct 2017 #26
Hey, I Ain't Eating Any of Your Sick Vegetables! ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #37
Yeah, good luck with that one. Ditto with hopefully vs. hopingly Orrex Oct 2017 #48
I think the problem with hopefully is that English doesn't have the word "hopably" Glorfindel Oct 2017 #86
You're correct, supposably! Orrex Oct 2017 #100
OMG, yes!! TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #52
Yeah, that one gets under my skin as well Spider Jerusalem Oct 2017 #33
I work in analytics, so I see that A LOT. Dave Starsky Oct 2017 #39
I'm guilty...never knew about that one LeftInTX Oct 2017 #69
#12 drives me CRAZY. LisaM Oct 2017 #27
I have a friend with a doctorate who makes this error. spooky3 Oct 2017 #127
My mom used to charge us MontanaMama Oct 2017 #28
My mom had a thing about lay versus lie too. cwydro Oct 2017 #43
I'm curious... MontanaMama Oct 2017 #53
"I wish she were here" TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #67
Yes she was. cwydro Oct 2017 #102
She sounds like a feisty one! MontanaMama Oct 2017 #105
Died at 90 in February. cwydro Oct 2017 #106
and dont forget 'hanged' vs 'hung' samnsara Oct 2017 #129
Omg wryter2000 Oct 2017 #138
I blame my mom, too. TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #56
That's awesome. MontanaMama Oct 2017 #57
Well, he's 25 now TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #60
LOL! I wasn't that hard core w/ my son, but I have to admit OldHippieChick Oct 2017 #91
Number 12 is inexcusable, and the most widely abused frazzled Oct 2017 #29
Me Thinks Your Wrong! ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #38
inexcusable??? Really. It bothers you that bad? nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #110
i had a teacher once explain it that if you say 'me' in front of a name... samnsara Oct 2017 #131
The English language is undergoing a big change. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #30
I blame it on the Webster's Third New International Dictionary (1961)! csziggy Oct 2017 #133
People influence language. Language influences people. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #142
I suspect the era of "correct English" will be short period of human history csziggy Oct 2017 #146
I think you are 100% correct. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #147
I wish I could add faze vs. phase to that list! 50 Shades Of Blue Oct 2017 #31
Yes. cwydro Oct 2017 #45
Hypocrisy vs Hypocracy Dreamer Tatum Oct 2017 #34
Some words need to be misspelled or grammar natzis would get bored Alea Oct 2017 #35
You spelled nazi wrong. cwydro Oct 2017 #46
That was bait lol Alea Oct 2017 #49
You got trolled! nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #111
Lol! cwydro Oct 2017 #112
:-) USALiberal Oct 2017 #115
Ignorance? or bad autocorrect? alarimer Oct 2017 #40
We see them all here. cwydro Oct 2017 #41
Irregardless drives me crazy. It's regardless. Period. madinmaryland Oct 2017 #47
I am almost 70 years old and in my experience some of the most ignorant doc03 Oct 2017 #50
Yep. hunter Oct 2017 #88
I had a retired teacher tell me last week the Civil War had nothing doc03 Oct 2017 #90
There list effected me alot underpants Oct 2017 #54
You're living MontanaMama Oct 2017 #55
We both are you and I. Its how we role. underpants Oct 2017 #58
Aaaaggghhhhhh! MontanaMama Oct 2017 #59
Your right. I'm some one whose better then that. underpants Oct 2017 #61
I need a drink. MontanaMama Oct 2017 #83
LOL underpants Oct 2017 #89
Less vs. fewer seems to trip up a lot of people as well. reflection Oct 2017 #62
Does it ever! kag Oct 2017 #101
Like nails on a blackboard for me mountain grammy Oct 2017 #64
What I don't understand at all TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #70
Because it is an insult mountain grammy Oct 2017 #73
That's one reason why I will never call their sorry asses anything but "repukes" Glorfindel Oct 2017 #122
That's what they are. mountain grammy Oct 2017 #123
It's an inside joke for them going back to Joe McCarthy underpants Oct 2017 #93
My Congressman does this frequently. phylny Oct 2017 #136
Weary vs. wary. Totally different meanings. Also people who pronounce the word realtor as reel-a-tor Neema Oct 2017 #68
Ok, I have to say I love this thread TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #72
There are no ignorant people on DU. They're elsewhere posting their nonsense. MineralMan Oct 2017 #75
Oh, I know that! TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #78
There's nothing more beautiful than someone declaring "Your an idiot" on the internet. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2017 #74
I always give a pass on its and it's tymorial Oct 2017 #80
When I was a young man, I almost never made these mistakes. NNadir Oct 2017 #81
Right, typos are a different matter entirely TeapotInATempest Oct 2017 #82
I always trip over insure vs. ensure. QED Oct 2017 #85
Spelling the South American country Columbia, instead of Colombia lunamagica Oct 2017 #87
Saw "Braking News!!!" here on DU a couple days ago. MindPilot Oct 2017 #94
Yep, that one presses my button too MichMan Oct 2017 #126
On the last one, I feel like "peek" may be the more common stand-in for "pique" petronius Oct 2017 #96
That last one left me stymied as well. The 'pique' portion was awkwardly worded INHO. politicaljunkie41910 Oct 2017 #144
How about could of or would of instead of could have or SaintLouisBlues Oct 2017 #97
Loose vs. lose nt spooky3 Oct 2017 #98
This is HUGH! Kingofalldems Oct 2017 #103
She went out to dinner cloudbase Oct 2017 #104
Please stand to your feet. mfcorey1 Oct 2017 #107
Bad grammar should never bother normal people. Why the whining I have no idea. nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #108
I don't know. cwydro Oct 2017 #113
Some too much. If I can read a sentence and understand what they meant, I am fine. nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #114
Well gud for yew. cwydro Oct 2017 #116
Wow, I understood what you meant and didn't whine about it! It works!! nt USALiberal Oct 2017 #119
i think because some of us have such a horrible memory of those... samnsara Oct 2017 #130
'Who' and 'whom' are the only ones that trip me up left-of-center2012 Oct 2017 #117
No one Mendocino Oct 2017 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author JonLP24 Oct 2017 #120
Its the falt of are pubic education system. Weekend Warrior Oct 2017 #121
That MSN article is extremely douchey. Oneironaut Oct 2017 #124
yay i gots them alllswrite samnsara Oct 2017 #128
"I seen it!" EarthFirst Oct 2017 #134
so my grandaughter grows up speaking well womanofthehills Oct 2017 #139
What makes me crazy wryter2000 Oct 2017 #137
Weird Al got this one! Initech Oct 2017 #141
Heard the "lay/laid" mistake on the radio today nuxvomica Oct 2017 #145
"insure" vs "ensure"... I read articles all the time mixing these up. JoeStuckInOH Oct 2017 #148
Post removed Post removed May 2021 #149

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
11. Autocorrect messes that one up a lot.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:00 PM
Oct 2017

I've never had a problem with that, but sometimes Mr. "Smartphone" does.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
17. Isn't technology wonderful?
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:11 PM
Oct 2017

So helpful and efficient.

My favorite thing in the world is when autocorrect "helps" me, then I backspace backspace backspace to fix it, and then it immediately "helps" me again.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
42. That is definitely one where I tend to give people a pass.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:48 PM
Oct 2017

It's generally clear from the context what they mean. With the glorious dynamics of language, I predict the words may become fully interchangeable in a hundred years or more.

mitch96

(13,911 posts)
3. I can see this devolving into a "I hate that word/phrase" thread
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 01:49 PM
Oct 2017

And I love'em... Mine is the phrase Oh! that's so fun..
Fun needs a modifier.. .like "much" as in Oh! that's so much fun...
The article is geared to writing. My bitch is speech... I also love to listen to non native english speakers mess with the language... My dentist says "Come toward me fine but when she says "come away from me" I want to crack up. I can't though cause I have about two pounds of instruments in my pie hole...
"May I be into helping you please" always cracked me up also...
You?
m

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
92. "different" also needs a modifier.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:25 PM
Oct 2017

Something can be different from something, but it can't just be different.

In the case of comparisons "They were different heights" (for example) the "from each other" is implied.

And it makes an amusing dig at someone to say, "Oh... he's different..." but that's basically meaningless.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
132. I'm not sure about that - "Well, that was different" can be a commentary
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 10:29 AM
Oct 2017

On an experience that means it was unlike anything you've ever dealt with and implying something unkind.

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
143. It's amuzing, to be sure
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 12:49 PM
Oct 2017

To me, that fits into the same category of "Well, he's... different." It's an amusing observation, but doesn't really mean anything.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
5. Trump has worse ones: heel vs heal
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 01:53 PM
Oct 2017

I think he has done that one multiple times

"Houston is heeling"

He also frequently capitalizes letters that should not be, just yesterday

"Why Isn't the...."

The Russian Facebook ads had some funny grammar and stilted syntax, not like the usual ones listed in the OP. BOLO for bots using them

Leith

(7,809 posts)
13. I Notice the Awkward Russian Ones, Too
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:03 PM
Oct 2017

There are definitely some mistakes that native speakers would not commit in text that originates in non-native messages. Without going into detail and tipping the trolls off, they hit the eye like strobe lights when you know what to look for.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
22. Agreed. Suffice it to say they are much different than the 13 above
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:16 PM
Oct 2017

They are not common grammar errors that even a freeper would make. In their article about the FB ads, the NYTimes pointed out a glaring mistake that no English speaker no matter how ignorant would perform.

I wonder how the Russian bots are working to solve the problem.

"what do you meaning by that? I English speak good!"

Leith

(7,809 posts)
79. Actually, That Is a Mistake That a Native Speaker Would Say
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:44 PM
Oct 2017

"I speak English good."

Most linguists would say that a native speaker can't make a mistake, but I've made them myself in new and uninteresting ways.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
25. The trolls don't care, really.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:20 PM
Oct 2017

I read somewhere that Nigerian e-mail scanners don't sweat that their e-mails are rife with ridiculous and obvious spelling errors. They're not targeting educated people, anyway. They would rather focus their efforts on the less educated and, presumably, more gullible.

I assume the same probably goes for Russian trolls.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
44. Good points, "Dumb it down"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:55 PM
Oct 2017

As in the one ad I saw the tag line was "SHARE IF YOU OUTRAGED" a corruption of 'your/ you're not even mentioned in the 13 sins above. It was a mistake made from the tag line to other memes on the same FB page "SHARE IF YOU AGREE" by my guess.

I would reckon the problem is that the Russians are very literate and smart people it's hard for them to dumb things down to American vernacular level dumb

For one thing they use too many words to try and explain a point. The point of one ad was Trump will replace "Happy Holidays" with "Merry Christmas"

Instead of just saying "Bring back Merry Christmas Again" something short and sweet and right up the short American attention span, there was a longer twisted paragraph attempting to explain how liberals are "having me saying happy holidays"

mitch96

(13,911 posts)
140. Yelp has it's outliers also
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 12:09 PM
Oct 2017

restaurant reviews with people from adjoining towns and the a few from far flung places.. .fake
m

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
9. Coincidentally, I have been keeping a list of similar mistakes I encountered on DU this week
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 01:57 PM
Oct 2017

More for my own perusal and betterment than anything else. Generally speaking, I think DU'ers are an exceptionally intelligent and well-read group. Everyone makes mistakes now and then - Lord knows I make my fair share! Here's the list:

effect/affect
reign/rein
then/than
edging on/egging on
bare/bear
your/you're
its/it's
their/they're/there
too/to
mettled/meddled
principal/principle
tenet/tenant

My biggest blunder lately was saying "comma" when I meant "apostrophe." In self-defense, it happened before I'd had any coffee that morning!

Leith

(7,809 posts)
10. Some of Them Are Pretty Bad
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 01:58 PM
Oct 2017

But others are excusable. Affect and effect, for example.

Errors that grate on my ears:
"He gave it to you and I"
It's ME, you dolts! Would you say "he gave it to I?"

"less calories"
Fewer, damn it!


Even though it's still correct, I just don't like the word "whom." It sounds pretentious. In a generation or two, it will become obsolete.

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
20. My favorite right-wing stupidity: "We need less government and taxes!"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:16 PM
Oct 2017

Do they mean "we need less government and fewer taxes," or "we need less government and we need taxes"?

I hate to disagree, but I honestly don't hear "whom" as being pretentious. I can't imagine saying "to who were you speaking?" or, even worse, "who were you speaking to?" You are right, however. In a generation or two, "whom," along with many other useful and beautiful bits of language, will disappear.

ProfessorGAC

(65,069 posts)
36. One That Bugs Me
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:41 PM
Oct 2017

Similar to your "less vs. fewer". When they reference something as 10 times less. It's not 10x less. It's one tenth, or 10%. There's no frame of reference in 10x less. If something is a 100 and the frame of reference is 1000, then 10x less is negative 8000. If the frame of reference is 50, then we have a real conundrum.

And saying "one tenth" is quicker than saying "ten times less".

Leith

(7,809 posts)
76. YES!!
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:39 PM
Oct 2017

Perhaps they think that people can't understand "one tenth." Maybe they can't. The reason that there is no third pounder at McDonald's is because too many people think that 1/3 is smaller than 1/4.

I hate hearing crap like "ten times less." A commercial has been saying their allergy medicine is better because "six is greater than one." Thanks for the math lesson, Allegra (or whoever it is).

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
51. Yes, me vs. I
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:02 PM
Oct 2017

I can't stand when people incorrectly use "I" instead of "me". And "less" when they mean "fewer".

I mean, I really can't stand it. I actually tense up. I may need professional help, lol.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
66. Lol. He did that today, "for Melania and I..."
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:22 PM
Oct 2017

I didn't tense up, but boy did I notice.

I also have the hangups over "fewer and less" and "many and much."

Another I always notice and feel is a probably a fairly good clue to someone "that" didn't grow up in a highly educated family and "that's" always preferred not to read, though not necessarily ignorant since many college grads use it, is of course "that" for "who." Rump is a person that does that.








TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
71. *I* didn't grow up in a highly educated family
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:30 PM
Oct 2017

At least not formally, that is, as we were poor. However, we were always surrounded by books and always reading, so you might be right about that part.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
125. Should have phrased it better. Sounds like your family was more
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 06:15 AM
Oct 2017

educated than many, or most, even if not formally. In any case, the patterns of more cultured language are going to be imprinted a lot more by reading than, say, by growing up among relatives who don't and who really only attended college because that's what people like them do.

reflection

(6,286 posts)
63. Whoops, posted mine below but didn't see you'd already covered it.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:19 PM
Oct 2017

I'll try to make less mistakes next time.

procon

(15,805 posts)
14. All of them irk me.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:04 PM
Oct 2017

That's the beginner's stuff that kids are supposed to learn in grade school. How to teachers pass kids on to a higher grade level without making sure they know the basic language skills they must have as an adult living in a high tech information age?

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
21. Yes "how to teachers" do that?
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:16 PM
Oct 2017


But we live in a world where two of our last three presidents have been linguistically challenged, so perhaps basic language skills are overrated.

BigmanPigman

(51,609 posts)
95. I taught the same lessons to both my 6th and first graders.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:28 PM
Oct 2017

It is called Daily Oral Language. They all loved it. I would write a sentence incorrectly and they would get "table points" for each corrected error. I was the only teacher at my school who did this. Spell check has made Grammar, Punctuation and Spelling "unnecessary" as far as state curriculum writers are concerned. Even my 6 year olds knew the difference between desert and dessert, super and supper. However, even a teacher friend sent me a birthday card and wrote "your" instead of "you're" three times in one card. Our educational system has changed and modeling good grammar, etc. doesn't exist at home.

I still get confused with may/might and lay/lie/layed. Also when a sentence begins with "If I..." and "I wish..." and is followed by singular or plural "was/were".

I went on a DU rant last night when I was corrected after my spell check wrote something incorrectly after I had typed it correctly. I have to correct my auto spellchecker at least three times after I write anything and I still miss the incorrect changes. It infuriates me!!!!! I will type "its" as it should be and Samsung tablet spellchecker changes it to the contraction "it's". AAARRRRGGGGG!!!!!

procon

(15,805 posts)
99. I know, I finally turned off the damned autocorrect.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:47 PM
Oct 2017

I still have auto cat correction, though. It comes with two cats that sprawl across the keyboard or try to grab my fingers as I type. The hair they leave behind is a feature, not a bug.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
15. I make a lot of those mistakes in emails and texts
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:07 PM
Oct 2017

Even though I know all the rules. Something about the need to get the words out quickly makes my brain fart.

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
26. Healthy instead of healthful, as in, "be sure to choose healthy vegetables."
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:20 PM
Oct 2017

As if I'm probably going to pick out sick ones if I'm not reminded?

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
48. Yeah, good luck with that one. Ditto with hopefully vs. hopingly
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:00 PM
Oct 2017

Whether or not these were exclusively correct at one time, that ship has sailed.

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
86. I think the problem with hopefully is that English doesn't have the word "hopably"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:08 PM
Oct 2017

No one confuses regretfully with regrettably.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
33. Yeah, that one gets under my skin as well
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:39 PM
Oct 2017

you'd think that people would realise it sounds off; a person is not a thing.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
39. I work in analytics, so I see that A LOT.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:46 PM
Oct 2017

Use "who" whenever you are talking about people. Use "that" whenever you are talking about inanimate objects or concepts.

"We have 42 salespeople who..."

"We have 18 teams who..."

"There are 22 file servers that..."

As with anything else, there are gray areas. "Nebraska has 32 branch offices who/that..." I tend to default to "who" whenever what I'm talking about is dependent on the actions of people.

"Nebraska has 32 branch offices who met their sales targets for last year."

"Nebraska has 32 branch offices that need to upgrade their signage. These are NOT the same offices who met their sales targets for last year."

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
27. #12 drives me CRAZY.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:26 PM
Oct 2017

Never, never, never say, "come talk to Joe or I". Just. Don't.

I work with freaking lawyers and they get this wrong all the time, and it boggles my mind. How did they earn advanced degrees if they can't even conquer this tiny point of grammar?

spooky3

(34,458 posts)
127. I have a friend with a doctorate who makes this error.
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 08:24 AM
Oct 2017

What bothers me about it is that I think if they just let themselves say what "sounds right" rather than adopt a pretentious "correction", they wouldn't make this mistake. And, it's so easy to avoid by removing the other person's name--they know it's silly to say "come talk to I."

MontanaMama

(23,322 posts)
28. My mom used to charge us
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:29 PM
Oct 2017

a dime for each grammatical error back in the day. She was hard core! To this day, I sweat a little bit when using lay vs lie. I think I get it wrong about 50% of the time. My mom is isn't around to bill me, however.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
43. My mom had a thing about lay versus lie too.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:55 PM
Oct 2017

I still remember.

She's no longer here to remind me.

MontanaMama

(23,322 posts)
53. I'm curious...
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:06 PM
Oct 2017

was your mom a stickler for good grammar in general? My mom was, and I used to think she was so mean!! Now I am glad she did what she did and I wish she were here so that I could thank her. I am appalled at how my child's teachers often speak. Poor grammar seems to be acceptable!

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
67. "I wish she were here"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:22 PM
Oct 2017

She did a good job with your grammar, obviously.

I, too, wish I could thank my mother!

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
102. Yes she was.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:55 PM
Oct 2017

To the day she died, we'd both laugh about bad grammar on TV or elsewhere.

I miss her very much.

MontanaMama

(23,322 posts)
105. She sounds like a feisty one!
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 05:02 PM
Oct 2017

I'm sorry she's not with here with you. You guys would have a field day with Dotard's 70 word vocabulary!

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
56. I blame my mom, too.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:08 PM
Oct 2017

She was also hard-core and I'm glad, frankly.

As a result of my upbringing, my son tells me I'm a grammar nazi. I can live with that.

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
60. Well, he's 25 now
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:18 PM
Oct 2017

And a socialist. He believes language is always evolving (which is true, of course) and that grammar rules are a way to oppress the poor and less-educated (which may be true? I don't know.). I remind him that my mother was the daughter of immigrants and knew the value of speaking properly. He seems to think that proves his point.

That kid. I do love him.

OldHippieChick

(2,434 posts)
91. LOL! I wasn't that hard core w/ my son, but I have to admit
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:22 PM
Oct 2017

he is a grammar Nazi now and I understand when other people roll their eyes after being chastised by him. I hate it the most when he corrects me!! LOL!

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
29. Number 12 is inexcusable, and the most widely abused
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:31 PM
Oct 2017

I hear it all the time—in conversations, on TV, even in the movies—and from people who should know better. It's inexcusable because it's so easy to get right that there is no excuse at all to get it wrong.

Just drop the other person's name and you'll easily see whether to use I or me:

Mom made John and me an extra-special dinner.


If John weren't there you'd say "Mom made me ..." , not "Mom made I ..."!

samnsara

(17,622 posts)
131. i had a teacher once explain it that if you say 'me' in front of a name...
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 09:59 AM
Oct 2017

...it turns out sounding like 'mean'....'me and john'= 'Mean john'...

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
30. The English language is undergoing a big change.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:31 PM
Oct 2017

Very noticeable to those of us who are older. At a young age we were taught penmanship, spelling and grammar.
Today those topics don't seem important. And the rapid and brief response communication modalities (internet and social media) seem to preclude editing or review.

Language usage is not carved in stone, it changes over time.
I am seeing a significant change in my lifetime.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
133. I blame it on the Webster's Third New International Dictionary (1961)!
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 11:01 AM
Oct 2017

When the First Edition of Webster's New International Dictionary (1909) was produced, the editorial board was attempting to codify correct spelling and usage of words which included correct grammar.

The Webster’s New International Dictionary (second edition, 1934) continued that intention.When the Third Edition was being developed, the scholars made a change in philosophy. Rather than deciding which usage was more "correct" they provided definitions in the order of most common usage and introduced new usage and new words into their lists. Part of this choice was determined by the feeling that "correct" English usage was already covered in the Second Edition of 1934 so that edition was (and is still) considered to be definitive for classic English grammar.

The Third Edition, on the other hand, was used to demonstrate how the language had evolved. I was in Library Science School in the early 1970s and that edition was still extremely controversial. The professor I had for Reference recommended that any library that had the room and the budget should keep both editions out for the use of their patrons.

Permissiveness
In the early 1960s, Webster's Third came under attack for its "permissiveness" and its failure to tell people what proper English was. It was the opening shot in the culture wars, as conservatives detected yet another symbol of the permissiveness of society as a whole and the decline of authority, as represented by the Second Edition.[8] As historian Herbert Morton explained, "Webster's Second was more than respected. It was accepted as the ultimate authority on meaning and usage and its preeminence was virtually unchallenged in the United States. It did not provoke controversies, it settled them." Critics charged that the [Webster's Third] dictionary was reluctant to defend standard English, for example entirely eliminating the labels "colloquial", "correct", "incorrect", "proper", "improper", "erroneous", "humorous", "jocular", "poetic", and "contemptuous", among others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Third_New_International_Dictionary#Permissiveness


Over the past thirty years the pace at which language has evolved has accelerated - to the point that a printed dictionary could not be expected to keep up. An advantage for the internet is that many sources can be referenced and vast quantities of information cross-referenced easily, something that could only bee dreamed about when I was studying references back in the day.

As an example, Wikitionary can not only keep up with the most current usages and definitions, it can also provide scans of the pages from the 1913 edition of Webster's New International Dictionary for people to consult: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Webster_1913

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Dictionary#Webster.27s_New_International_Dictionary_1909
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Third_New_International_Dictionary

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
142. People influence language. Language influences people.
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 12:31 PM
Oct 2017

Interesting, we can pinpoint the origins of the major shift in language usage. People given more power to alter the rules of language.

Somewhat ironic, the more widespread the availability of grammar and spelling rules via the internet, the more they are ignored. Personally, I tend to dislike a rigid rule set which makes me feel fenced in and restricted. However, the purpose of language rules I would think is to promote clarity and comprehension. When reading material written in the new style, with little adherence to standard language rules, it leaves me trying to guess at the meaning of the content.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
146. I suspect the era of "correct English" will be short period of human history
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 02:33 PM
Oct 2017

Barely noticeable over time.

I read a lot of old wills, letters and documents as part of genealogical research. Spelling and grammar are widely variable over most of the time period I have covered - 1600 to current day. Around 1850-1900 usage became more standardized depending on the person and their educational level but prior to that the variations in use and spelling resembled what we see today on the internet to an amazing degree.

Since computerized grammar and spellcheck software tend to be "learning" from current usage they will not standardize usage to the old norms. They may create new norms but I doubt it - they tend to learn from average users, not from the erudite ones so will trend towards the less rather than more educated usage.

I don't really see anything wrong with this. Language should reflect the actual use rather than some artificial construct of ideal usage - so long as clarity is retained. All clarity and comprehension needs is a common basis of usage.

On the other hand, variation in usage in different groups add spice to our language. As an example, the language usage by the young man in this story is decidedly non-standard English but his use of language certainly livens the story and enhances his narrative!

This 12-Year-Old’s Girlfriend Told Him That He Made Her Pregnant, And He Had The Best Response Ever

Irish_Dem

(47,131 posts)
147. I think you are 100% correct.
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 03:21 PM
Oct 2017

Good point.

Most of our ancestors, even recent ones in terms of historic time, were illiterate. Probably why our grandparents and parents saw correct penmanship, spelling and grammar as a privilege and point of pride. Once the majority of the population became literate, pride of language no longer important. So those traits no longer exist in terms of language usage. Except by a small group of wordsmiths, people who make a living putting one word in front of another.

I have given up on the notion of common basis of usage. Instead I think of it as two similar but separate languages. The new style is like a foreign language, and sometimes I have to ask a young person for a translation.

Thanks for the attached narrative.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
40. Ignorance? or bad autocorrect?
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 02:47 PM
Oct 2017

I'm not sure a single mistake is indicative of anything other than haste.

doc03

(35,345 posts)
50. I am almost 70 years old and in my experience some of the most ignorant
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:02 PM
Oct 2017

people I ever met used perfect grammar.

hunter

(38,317 posts)
88. Yep.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:15 PM
Oct 2017

And people entirely unable to "think outside the box."

I've encountered a few Evangelic Christian "young earth" Creationists in that category.

They are very good at following THE RULES, especially rules that make no sense.

doc03

(35,345 posts)
90. I had a retired teacher tell me last week the Civil War had nothing
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:20 PM
Oct 2017

to do with slavery it was "States Rights". I said yes a state's right to have slaves. I asked her just what were those "States Rights"
they were fighting over other than slavery and she was lost for words. Only that she was a teacher for 40 something years and knew
more about it than me.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
64. Like nails on a blackboard for me
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:20 PM
Oct 2017

these grammatical mistakes, but I've learned to live with it. The one thing I can't stand is when a noun is used as an adjective to promote idiot America.
I believe the day is coming when someone will use the term "Democrat Party" and I'll grab him/her by the neck and tell him/her, nicely of course, it's the Democratic Party, you illiterate dirtbag.

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
70. What I don't understand at all
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:26 PM
Oct 2017

Is why Republicans seem to believe that using "Democrat" instead of "Democratic" party is an insult. Why do they do that? They seem to think it's clever, but I can't figure out why.

Glorfindel

(9,730 posts)
122. That's one reason why I will never call their sorry asses anything but "repukes"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 07:57 PM
Oct 2017

NOT GOP, NOT Republicans, just repukes. Even that is more than they deserve.

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)
123. That's what they are.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 08:03 PM
Oct 2017

Saw another one on the DU thread.. repubic and that's also more than they deserve.

underpants

(182,826 posts)
93. It's an inside joke for them going back to Joe McCarthy
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:26 PM
Oct 2017

Limbaugh says it all the time.

Their world (especially talk radio) is one of inside "jokes" and legend/lore that is hard to understand at first by an outsider. Yes I take one for the team and listen some. The first 10-15 minutes of Hannity's show both incredibly dullard and littered with so many references/jokes/code words it's almost like another language.

phylny

(8,380 posts)
136. My Congressman does this frequently.
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 11:33 AM
Oct 2017

On occasion I correct him and tell him it "makes you appear to be uneducated."

Neema

(1,151 posts)
68. Weary vs. wary. Totally different meanings. Also people who pronounce the word realtor as reel-a-tor
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:23 PM
Oct 2017

drive me nuts.

TeapotInATempest

(804 posts)
72. Ok, I have to say I love this thread
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:34 PM
Oct 2017

but I may have to leave it. I can only listen to nails on a blackboard for so long. You people are killing me!

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,182 posts)
74. There's nothing more beautiful than someone declaring "Your an idiot" on the internet.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:38 PM
Oct 2017

Although I will give them some credit for saying "Your an idiot" versus "Your a idiot."

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
80. I always give a pass on its and it's
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:48 PM
Oct 2017

The same with affect and effect.

Spell correct can cause the misuse.

The rest of the list however grinds my gears. Especially alot, then/than, and the persistent use of like and um.

NNadir

(33,525 posts)
81. When I was a young man, I almost never made these mistakes.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 03:49 PM
Oct 2017

Last edited Sat Oct 7, 2017, 05:57 AM - Edit history (1)

I am old enough to remember a time when we did not have computers, and many of us, not even those historical devices called "typewriters."

As an old man, who types and reads very fast, I make them all the time, particularly when writing. Either I think faster than I type, or I'm completely senile.

I don't have much use for people who confuse typos with intelligence and education though.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
87. Spelling the South American country Columbia, instead of Colombia
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:11 PM
Oct 2017

It's ColOmbia, nor ColUmbia.

That one irritates me more than it should.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
94. Saw "Braking News!!!" here on DU a couple days ago.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:26 PM
Oct 2017

I assumed it was going to be a slow news day.

Break -- like breaking news, or break a window

Brake -- the mechanism that stops your car

MichMan

(11,932 posts)
126. Yep, that one presses my button too
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 08:10 AM
Oct 2017

I am a member of quite a few automotive forums. People are always posting about having problems stopping their car because the breaks are acting up.

I feel like replying "Did you break your brakes?" but restrain myself as I don't want to be that guy

petronius

(26,602 posts)
96. On the last one, I feel like "peek" may be the more common stand-in for "pique"
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 04:31 PM
Oct 2017

Rather than "peak." But what do I know? I speak good English, so I don't make these mistakes alot...

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
144. That last one left me stymied as well. The 'pique' portion was awkwardly worded INHO.
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 01:19 PM
Oct 2017

Either the author left out a word or he's just plain wrong as far as I'm concerned.

samnsara

(17,622 posts)
130. i think because some of us have such a horrible memory of those...
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 09:57 AM
Oct 2017

..English teachers! So when we hear bad grammar it dredges up visions....

Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Oneironaut

(5,504 posts)
124. That MSN article is extremely douchey.
Fri Oct 6, 2017, 09:39 PM
Oct 2017

I've always found correcting peoples' grammar (especially in real life) to be 1000x more annoying than the original mistake. It's usually obvious what the person meant. On the other hand, grammar nitpickers are 9 times out of 10 pretentious douches.

womanofthehills

(8,718 posts)
139. so my grandaughter grows up speaking well
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 11:54 AM
Oct 2017

and all of a sudden starts saying "I seen" because she is hanging around with kids saying "I seen."

wryter2000

(46,051 posts)
137. What makes me crazy
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 11:47 AM
Oct 2017

Me and him had lunch. Could anything be more ignorant?

OTOH I make a lot of those mistakes the way one would a typo. I know the difference perfectly well. Occasionally I miss one in proof reading.

What really stumbles me is lose versus loose and choose versus chose.

nuxvomica

(12,429 posts)
145. Heard the "lay/laid" mistake on the radio today
Sat Oct 7, 2017, 01:38 PM
Oct 2017

Clueless Leader read this as part of his weekly address:

"When the shooting began, a mother laid on top of her daughter to shield her from gunfire."

I should be "lay" not "laid". I don't know why people can't get that right. But it may not be Clueless Leader's fault. I bet the speech was written by known idiot Stephen Miller.

Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

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