I am an early Boomer, born in 1948. (Warning, long post)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

It seems to me that I and most of my cohort are very liberal. That may be because I choose largely to hang out with fellow liberals.

As a Boomer I really, REALLY get tired of my generation being blamed for all the current ills of this country.

I used to read old Life Magazine, starting with the first issue (which I'm sure you all know) was in November, 1936. I read them sequentially, and over about a four year period, made it through March of 1945, and it's quite obvious the war in Europe is almost over and that the war in the Pacific will last another year, maybe two. I wonder how it all came out. (Actually, I know, but having read the magazine, it's as if I remember the events up to that point and am stuck in time at the end of March, 1945.)

Here's what I want to point out. All during the war there was a lot of enforced saving, because there were many consumer goods that simply were no longer available, such as cars or sheets, food was rationed (except for restaurants which led to a very lively restaurant and night club scene especially in the big cities), coupled with a strong encouragement to buy war bonds. So people bought a lot of those war bonds. By late 1944 the war bonds were beginning to be cashed in. There was an enormous pent-up demand for consumer items, and I could tell that just by reading those Life Magazines. It was incredibly obvious that as the war was winding down (and by early or mid 1944 Life ran a serious article about the upcoming problems in re-integrating returning soldiers back into civilian life and jobs) that there was a lot of money out there that was eager to be spent.

Even though I didn't get past March, 1945, I could tell that the adult generation, much later named the "Greatest Generation" was going to fling itself head over heels in spending. And they did. They bought homes. They bought cars. They had babies and bought everything that babies needed. The set an example of spending and consumerism that their children, the Baby Boomers, get vilified for.

Quite frankly, the Greatest Generation wasn't. Certainly not the greatest. That was a name given them by Tom Brokaw long after the end of WWII. Yes, they endured the Great Depression and a terrible World War, but they were like any other generation. There were heroes and villains. They looked out for themselves as people always do.

If you don't have the time or access to old Life Magazines to read some ten years' worth of issues (and I spent about four years doing that), then please read the book Generations by William Strauss and Neill Howe. It is totally amazing. I recommend it over and over, and am yet to come across anyone else who has ever read it. For starters, they are very careful in how they assign the actual years to a particular cohort. They take a look at what events shaped peoples' lives. By their reckoning the Baby Boom generation was born between 1943 and 1960 and were the prime beneficiaries of the incredible economic engine of the post-war period. Their definition, makes me a mid-Boomer. Anyway, the choice of 1960 as the end date is that someone born at the very end of 1960 has a chance of being able to remember, at least faintly, the assassination of President Kennedy. That assassination is the event that brought the 1950's to a close and made way for the era we call The Sixties. Unfortunately, most designations of the Baby Boom is from 1946-1965, the actual years of that bump in births. They also point out that those born starting in 1943 probably have no real memories of WWII, and because relatively few babies were born in 1943 through 1946, those people were highly sought after as workers once they were old enough to hit the job market starting around 1960.

When I was about thirty, and newly back to college, it was remarkably obvious that the brand new freshmen on campus were notably more conservative than students just a year or two older. The professors all noticed it, and those freshmen were remarkably proud of it. They were the young voters who embraced Reagan. More to the point they were NOT Boomers, but members of the next generation, one Strauss and Howe originally called Thirteeners because they were the thirteenth generation after the one (by their calculations) that gave us the American Revolution. The name Thirteeners didn't stick. They have been called GenX for a long time, although oddly enough that name has largely disappeared from use, and that generation, despite the fact they are currently the generation in charge of most things, and seem to be subsumed into the Millennial generation, which is entirely different.

The conservative and tea-party politicians who are destroying this country are for the most part not of the Boomer generation. Trump is, based on his birth year, but he operates from a place of profound ignorance and enormous greed as well as a highly privileged sense of grandiosity, and hasn't an ounce of compassion or understanding of anyone else.

This post has gone on too long, I fear, and not many will read all the way through. I wish you would. And I wish many more would read Generations and also The Fourth Turning, likewise by Strauss and Howe.

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

1. Amazing post.

Thank you for sharing this. And I'm off to check Amazon books

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. Despite a copywrite date of 1991

Generations, in my opinion, is not at all dated. The Fourth Turning came out in 1997 and is, in it's own way, remarkably prescient.

William Strauss and Neil Howe only collaborated on four books. The others are 13-GEN (1993) and Millenials Rising(2000). Those last two are interesting, but don't have the scope and sweep of the first two.

It's been a while since I've reread any of them, and I really should do so. Especially the first two named here.

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

4. Ahhhh...

...so no info on those wacky millenials My copy of Generations will be here Monday!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. Actually, there's a lot of infos on those wacky Millenials.

And an entire book devoted to them!

[DavidDvorkin]

3. Great post

And much needed.

[Grammy23]

5. I am in hurricane wait mode so havent totally read your post but wanted to add...

Like you, I was born in 1948. I think my earliest exposure to liberal thinking came from my father. He was born in 1916, lived through the Great Depression and was pretty much a self taught man, beyond high school. He was VERY smart, however, and read constantly. He was also frugal. Even though we had a nice boat (20’ cabin cruiser), he built it by hand over a year and a half in our back yard. We never lived above our means and saved for frills. We had several very nice, extended vacations when I was a kid but we never stayed in plush surroundings. They were decent accommodations but not “name brands”. It used to frustrate my sister and me when our friend’s parents bought new cars and moved into ranch style homes with wall to wall carpeting, a/c, fireplaces, family rooms, etc, and we stayed in our late 1940s house with a big attic fan and hardwood floors. NOW I understand why, but as a kid I wanted to live in a similar situation and attend school on the fancy side of town. Instead we drove slightly older cars (but not ragged cars) and stayed just slightly below our means. We got to do other things that our friends did not. We had a fishing cabin on the Gulf Coast. Took long vacations out west and to Mexico. So it was a matter of my parents making different choices for our family. And SAVING for things that were not necessities.

I learned so much from my dad, but the most important, I think was my liberal mind and thinking. I like to think it has made me a kinder person with higher regard for my fellow travelers.

[marlakay]

17. My parents were liberal and my dad a big saver

I always thought it came from his being poor as a child. We were middle class, I was born in the mid 50's.

I was grateful that he taught me to save, one time as a teen I wanted a waterbed, he said I had to pay for it, took me a whole year to save my babysitting money but then he let me have one. You appreciate things a lot more when you have to wait for them.

Its too easy now. Just use a credit card. I remember lay a way plans.

[Dawson Leery]

6. Generations and The Fourth Turning are worth reading.

People born from 1955-1965 are commonly known as "Yuppies".
This generational cusp lies between the Boomers (younger cohort) and the X'ers (older cohort).

They came of age during the "malaise" of the 1970's. The circumstances of the time turned them to the right.

A half a lifetime later, you will see the reverse. Today's youth (1994-2005) will be more liberal, turned off the failures of Conservatism.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. I don't believe "Yuppie" is a designation for a generation.

I had thought it meant Young Upwardly Mobile Professional, but a quick google search says it was originally Young Urban Professional.

Young and Professional are the two key terms. Not when they were born.

Plus, if you're familiar with the two books you'll recall that they never use Yuppie for a cohort designation. In fact, I don't think that word appears in any of their books.

I can recall quite clearly in the 1980's that some people my age self-identified as Yuppies.

[marybourg]

19. You are correct. And it was frequently used

to contrast with "hippies". Sometime jokingly, to highlight what happened as "hippies" grew up.

[RandomAccess]

34. My recollection is not so much "jokingly" as disparagingly

It was NOT a positive term by any means.

[CountAllVotes]

26. +1

Nail on head there.

[Demsrule86]

23. I don't think that is accurate.

There has been no examination of this that I have seen unless you can provide documentation.

[TuxedoKat]

59. "Generation Jones"

Is the name applied to those born 1955-1965, or so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones

[murielm99]

7. Like you, I was born in 1948.

My parents were Democrats and my father was a strong union man. I learned from them.

I, too, am tired of seeing boomers blamed for everything. We lived through times of great change, and questioned a lot of things about the status quo. While I find most boomers to be liberal, I know that we are a large group, and that any large group has a great deal of diversity.

When younger (or older) generations sneer at us, remember this. Gates and Jobs are boomers. The lives people live now would not be possible without their innovations. Many people would not be able to live their lives or do the work they do without these two.

Here is a list I bookmarked a while ago:

http://www.boomerslife.org/boomers_social_leaders_actors_musicians_list.htm

[Scruffy1]

8. I admit I haven't read this book.

I probably will, but I am very skeptical of the whole generational differences being caused by events. My life experience and readings have led me to believe most peoples opinions and attitudes are shaped by the media more than actual reality. The rise of rampant consumerism parallels the rise of television advertising. When I look at all the useless products from garbage disposals to the Joe Namath hot dog cooker the only thing I can base their sales on is advertising. Also peoples views of politics are mainly shaped by the media. When the conservatives were wiped out in 1964 they started the biggest Pr and advertising campaign in history. It influenced all of the media. Buying things became the road to happiness and the American way. The news outlets rely on corporate advert zing, were of course all too willing.They were capable of creating a new consensus through constant propaganda. I rarely talk politics with average people because frankly they have nothing to add except what they heard on the radio and television.
On second thought I will definitely read this book. But, then that is what I do best. Meanwhile rereading a lot of Gramsci.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. You must read the books.

Generations spends a long time, over 100 pages in my paperback edition, carefully explaining how they developed their theory. They put a lot of thought into it. And the subtitle of the book is "The History of America's Future, 1584 to 2069" So it's not just looking at two or three generations, but they carefully describe and look at the life cycles of a total of 18 generations in that time span. They make an excellent case of an orderly succession of four different generational types.

Here's one of the most amazing conclusions they come to. That the Civil War was so sharp and so intense and came earlier than a Crisis should have, it precluded the birth (or development if you prefer) of one specific generational type. In short, one generational type was entirely skipped.

You are right that opinions and attitudes can be greatly shaped by the media, and I'm constantly pointing out that because I don't own a TV, haven't now for more than 9 years and this is actually the fourth time in my life I've gone for years without one, I am not exposed to very much advertizing. I watch TV shows usually through Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon, and the gloriously wonderful thing about that is: no commercials.

Of course, I'm an anomaly here.

Anyway, no matter how much I post here I can't do full justice to the books.

And there's still my Life Magazine Project as I like to call it. I can go on at great length all of the things I learned from reading them.

[riverbendviewgal]

9. I was born during the blizzard of 47 on December 27,

I read LIFE and LOOK magazines in the library. Jim was interested in current issues at an early age. I remember Edward R. Morrow and his news. Then Walter Cronkite.
The earliest profound movie for me was On The Beach. It tied in with hiding under my school desk during air raids. There were two or 3 classes in each grade with 50 to each class. I lived in a small town.

My mother lived through the Depression, her mother seemed to have never gotten out.
My mom loved the good things in life. The best way I can describe her is a female Donald Trump, without the big bank account. We were opposites. When she heard about the Missile Crisis she had no clue how serious it was. She went out shopping.

I am liberal. My sons are generation X.


Great OP.

[raccoon]

12. Thank you. " Quite frankly, the Greatest Generation wasn't. Certainly not the greatest. "

Amen to that! Just because Mr. Tom Brokaw said that doesn't make it Holy Writ.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

14. So right.

When he first came up with that I was a bit disgusted. Yes, the men and women who fought and who kept this country together deserve praise, but Greatest Generation? Give me a break.

[DK504]

15. My parents were born in the 1931-32 area. They were Depression kids,

WWI teenagers and didn't have family that went to WWII. The Korean War was a largely distant thing for the family as Dad was Air Force and removed from everything.

"As a Boomer I really, REALLY get tired of my generation being blamed for all the current ills of this country."

The early Boomers those that were the kids of those coming back from the war, those parents that understood, the war and saw Europe and the Pacific, they were different than my parents coming of age, the time of Korea. My brothers were "Boomers", I refuse to call myself a Boomer, 1961 seriously is past the boomer stage. 1960 -1965 is a lost generation that has been tucked into the Boomer generation for convenience.

It's the so called "Boomers" from the 50's that came into age in the 60's and were all so peace and lovey, then turned around to become hedge fund managers and pushed for the destruction of the regulations that help create their parents lifestyles. That is where I have turned my distain and the children of the 60's that thought they changed the world. It wasn't until they really got into power and got greedy, had children and taught them greed is good. We have been in a death spiral since then.

Parents demanding their kids don't take the same class loads as they did, no homework, no discipline and of the new 'free-range' "rearing of parenting". Maybe my Catholic education in the 6-'s, 70's, 80's made me a bit conservative when it comes to education, I never wanted my parents to be "my BFF", their job was to teach and discipline, and then of course hate them for it and my subsequently screaming they were ruining my life.

Returning vets of WWII came home tried to reintegrate into society, their children did very well, but since then there was a shift away from FDR's presidency that helped keep America together that the following generations have come to see as the measure as crippling.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

18. As Strauss and Howe make extremely clear,

the Boomer generation was born between 1943 and 1960. I know people born in 1961 and they are NOT Boomers, even though the demographic designation of baby boomer is applied to them.

I really, really, really want more people to read that book.

[raging moderate]

22. Boomers were sharply divided into two main groups.

Hippie types and rigid conformists were the two main groupings. There was strong pressure to fall in line with one of these two main groups. I tried to fit in with the conformists like my two older siblings, but my hair just never WOULD stay in that stiff helmet shape and I just never COULD seem to make my clothes look that certain perfect way. I gravitated toward the hippies because they accepted me as I was.

The rigid conformists of my generation were mostly smug little goody two-shoes people, over-reinforced by the older generation for wearing nylons, ties, and expensive clothing - and voting for Nixon and Reagan. Anybody even slightly hippie-like was automatically suspect, and anybody who was a conformist was automatically respected, and promoted whenever possible. I also had a job, and I worked just as hard as they did. I also did my laundry, and cleaned my apartment (once I got one, with my husband). But my efforts were always assumed to be subpar. Somehow, they were never suspected of any wrongdoing, no matter how much soda they spilled on the switchboard or how much pie they stole from the cafeteria line.

[llmart]

33. I have always said that the definition of Boomers is incorrect.

I was born in 1949. The true definition of Boomer originally was those babies born after WWII ended and the soldiers came back and started their families. The demographers then decided they would use the years 1946 - 1964 as the Baby Boom generation. I have never thought that people born in 1960 to 1964 were boomers. Geez, Louise. That's pretty long after the war ended!

A better definition would be 1945-1955 at best.

Also, I thoroughly agree with the thought that calling them The Greatest Generation was a bunch of hooey. In fact, if I remember correctly, there is some reference in that book by Brokaw about how a lot of us boomers have some pretty horrendous stories about our parents' parenting style.

My parents were both very liberal FDR supporters and strong union sympathizers. That's where I got my liberal leanings from.

On a side note, anyone else remember "banking day" in elementary school? Every Friday we had to bring a nickel or a dime to school and we had little passbooks from a local bank and at the end of the school year we would get to see how much money we had saved. I'm a saver to this day. We learned delayed gratification and the value of saving/not using credit. It stuck with me forever.

[RandomAccess]

35. I have to challenge this

It's the so called "Boomers" from the 50's that came into age in the 60's and were all so peace and lovey, then turned around to become hedge fund managers and pushed for the destruction of the regulations that help create their parents lifestyles. That is where I have turned my distain and the children of the 60's that thought they changed the world. It wasn't until they really got into power and got greedy, had children and taught them greed is good. We have been in a death spiral since then.

I'm a boomer, also born in 1948.

While the boomers who protested the war and became Flower Children made all the news, there were millions who were quite conservative. They believed in the war; they enlisted or went thru ROTC. THOSE are the ones who grew up to become Hedge Fund Managers.

I'm sick of the rest of us being blamed for that. So stop it.

[Hugin]

50. "1960 -1965 is a lost generation" aka "Generation Jones".

"The name "Generation Jones" has several connotations, including a large anonymous generation, a "keeping up with the Joneses" competitiveness and the slang word "jones" or "jonesing", meaning a yearning or craving. It is said that Jonesers were given huge expectations as children in the 1960s, and then confronted with a different reality as they came of age during a long period of mass unemployment and when de-industrialization arrived full force in the mid-late 1970s and 1980s, leaving them with a certain unrequited "jonesing" quality for the more prosperous days of the past.

The generation is noted for coming of age after a huge swath of their older brothers and sisters in the earlier portion of the baby boomer population had come immediately preceding them; thus, many Generation Jones members complain that there was a paucity of resources and privileges available to them that were seemingly abundant to those older boomers born earlier. Therefore, there is a certain level of bitterness about and a "jonesing" for the level of freedom and affluence granted to older boomers but denied to their generation."

This article is quite generous saying from 1954 to 1964... I'd say it's more along the lines of 1960 - 1967-ish.

Straight from the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones

[panader0]

16. I was born in 1950 and my folks subscribed to Life Magazine.

My mom, before I was born, had taken a large photo of my dad, who was in his Air
Force uniform, and put it a Life logo on it. Kind of like an early version of
photoshopping. I was convinced that my dad was on the cover of Life.

[ThoughtCriminal]

20. 1958 - I consider myself a "Phase-2" Boomer

I think my experience as a young adult is distinctly different from Phase-1.

Phase-1's entered adulthood dealing with the draft and the Vietnam War. Phase-2's missed that war but found themselves entering the job market during a major economic downturn and facing overwhelming competition from both sub-generations. Both are still dealing with the after-effects.

[Freddie]

38. Me too, born late 1956

A few years made a huge difference. Our older brothers had to worry about the draft, guys our age (suddenly) did not. My brother (born in 53) changed his whole life plans because of the draft, went to college when he wasn’t originally planning to and thankfully the draft ended while he was still there. His number was 150 so he would have gone. I remember watching the draft number thing on TV. Our generation just 3 years later got to escape all that.
As a female I think we later boomers were the first generation where more of us worked than not when our kids (today’s Millennials) were little. Talking with a co-worker then about our kids in daycare and she said we were doing a big social experiment and we’ll see how they turn out later. I think they came out ok and now their kids (like my grandson) are in daycare.

[kwassa]

21. I was in Life Magazine in 1969 ...

Woodstock issue. A famous group shot of people standing under a board in the rain.

Life was culturally huge back then and now all but forgotten. How times change.

[ThoughtCriminal]

41. This one?

[kwassa]

60. Yes.

[demigoddess]

24. I am a boomer born in 1948 also. I always thought some of our history is

because the bosses could not object when the returning heroes wanted to form unions. And another reason we had such a lovely boom time after WWII was that so much of Europe was leveled. We weren't so we could sell to the world. As it is, Europe has rebuilt itself beautifully well and we have not kept up in some areas. We have done beautifully in computer science but not much in other areas.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

25. Actually, the huge growth in unions was before WWII,

although they gained a lot of strength in the post war years.

The tax structure also fueled the rise of the middle class. The highest marginal income tax rates topped out at 90%, and I believe corporate taxes were likewise much higher than they are now. Since the best paid would keep so little additional income, it made sense to give the rank and file workers more money. It helped a great deal that productivity increased incredibly, and wages tended to reflect that.

In recent decades, even with improved productivity most of the raises have gone to management, and they often pay lower taxes as a percentage of their income than those below them.

As for unions, they were originally seen by most workers as absolutely necessary. Over time there was a concerted effort to demonize them, which was, alas, highly effective. Because we have a nightly business report but no nightly labor report, because newspapers have business pages but not dedicated to workers or unions, and because this stuff is pretty poorly taught, if at all, in high school, people have by and large bought into the crap about how terrible unions are.

Yes, there have been corrupt unions or shop stewards, but the way to deal with that should not have been to destroy them wholesale.

[RandomAccess]

36. The GI Bill had an enormous impact

Many say that's what MADE the middle class.

[DFW]

27. An interesting viewpoint

I was born in 1952, and just had dinner last Monday with a friend of some prominence (former presidential candidate) who was also born in 1948. He is one of the most forward-looking, aware people I know. Interestingly enough, he NEVER discusses the past, only wants to look forward. He desperately wants to recruit thirty-somethings and forty-somethings to get involved and run for public office, as he thinks the future should not be determined by his/my generation.

As a contrast, I have another friend, a decade or more older, with whom I talked endlessly about ancient civilizations, and rarely about current events. He is/was probably the last of a dying breed: an intellectual, keenly aware Republican with a great sense of humor. A movie was once made about his stint as a radio announcer in Vietnam, and he almost never talked about it except to say that if he had done half the things his character did in the film, he would have spent the rest of his military career in Leavenworth. He had a family tragedy recently, and I have not heard from him since the November election last year. I would very much like to know what he thought about it. As a great thinker and a man of great compassion, I can't imagine he would have been accepting of the result. He worked until well into his seventies with a little-known Pentagon office whose task was to work with the governments of Vietnam and Cambodia to find the remains of American MIAs from the war of the 60s and 70s, and return them to give closure to their families. Knowing Trump, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that office had been closed down altogether.

[RandomAccess]

37. Are you talking about

the character from Good Morning, Vietnam ?

I know the other person is Howard Dean.

[DFW]

48. That's the one.

Adrian Cronauer. Adrian is so COMPLETELY different from the Robin Williams characterization of him, when I first met him, I was thinking this CAN'T be the guy from the film. But, of course, Robin Williams was playing Robin Williams, and not really trying to portray Adrian as he truly was.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

40. Very interesting.

Keep in mind that your older friend is a member of the Silent Generation, whose characteristics are very, very different from those of a boomer-type generation.

And I'm pretty sure I also know who your friend is, and if I'm right, I've met him several times and he even contributed to my campaign when I ran for office in 2006. Great guy. Not the least surprised that he only wants to look forward. Which brings me back to the constant harping here on DU about who our candidate should be in 2020, and invariably someone who has already run and all of whom are frankly too old, are the only ones mentioned.

[DFW]

49. You are correct on both counts

Adrian Cronauer is so completely unlike the movie portrayal of him, I was actually confused when I first met him, wondering if there were two people with the same name.

Howard is, of course, a different species altogether, still active with batteries recharged to 100% daily. I don't know how he does it. His ideas are always fresh, and I'm always impressed with how, as an unbelievably active person himself, who could easily have run for elective office again after 2008, he insists that we need to have a new generation step up and get actively involved. He considers that far more important than running for office himself.

[Irish_Dem]

28. You are right. We don't have anything to be sorry for. We changed the world.

Stopped the Viet Nam War, promoted women's rights, civil rights.
Spoke truth to power.

[Greybnk48]

31. We also made the establishment stop polluting,

and to treat animals with love and compassion, and they've hated us ever since. We grew up in Wisconsin knowing John Muir and Aldo Leopold. We had Bill Proxmire and Gaylord Nelson who gave us the Clean Air Act, the Clean Drinking Water Act, the Clean Water Act, and Earth Day. Prior to us Boomers, our rivers would catch fire. Our parents threw garbage out the car windows, dumped crap everywhere, etc.

When people blame Boomers for our troubles, give them the finger.

[Irish_Dem]

32. Oh yes, of course, I remember all of that, Earth Day, rivers on fire, Clean Air Act.

The push for environmental regulations.

We were busy making making the world a better place.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Generational labels are meaningless

Circumstances are what change; people respond in their way, as they always have. You nailed it:

they were like any other generation. There were heroes and villains. They looked out for themselves as people always do.

K&R

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. If you read the book

Generations you will not agree that labels are meaningless. While it's important not to think that every single member of a generational cohort is alike, the way they respond to things will be highly similar.

And what you quoted was my objection to the smarmy "Greatest Generation" label. Each generation faces challenges, and with any luck each generation responds and overcomes them.

[BeyondGeography]

42. Labels are nothing more than marketing constructs

And when they aren't, it's mostly older people talking shit about supposedly disrespectful and clueless younger people, which has been going on uninterrupted since the Greeks. I don't need to read the book.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. The designations Strauss and Howe came up with are not marketing constructs.

Which you clearly cannot understand since you haven't read the book and are saying you don't need to. Fine, don't read it but it's also not older people talking shit about supposedly disrespectful and clueless younger people. It's a careful analysis of patterns over more than 400 years of history, and projecting (at the time they wrote it) more than 75 years into the future.

So please do not dismiss something out of arrogant ignorance.

[BeyondGeography]

44. If it's ignorance you're worried about

I'd spend less time slicing and dicing people by their birth year and slapping g silly names on them. Otoh, I have no doubt the authors are smart people and that their 75-year projections are showing up in any number of business plans.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

46. No one is slicing and dicing people by their birth year and slapping silly names on them.

You are making a judgement based on zero information.

And the projections they make are not the kind that show up in business plans. Again, you haven't a clue because you have not only not read the book but you're not reading what I've been posting in this thread. Your mind is made up and you won't be confused by any silly facts.

[rufus dog]

39. First off, Brokaw is an obnoxious DICK!

That being said, the parents of the "greatest generation" deserve a great deal of credit.

They actually lived through the Depression as young adults, they felt the pain. Then they sent the kids off to war, and here is the big thing. They were NOT greedy fucking assholes who could be manipulated by Repubs. (in large part) When programs like the GI Bill and others that would benefit others younger than them, they did NOT align with the rich pubbies and stop legislation, they actually supported the plans. Remember these people lived through the Depression and could have taken the path of "what is in it for me!"

Finally Brokaw is an obnoxious DICK!

[MicaelS]

55. Precisely WHY is Brokaw an obnoxious DICK? n/t

[DonCoquixote]

45. This came as a result of my post

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029683044

so i do feel rather pleased the discussion started, but, if you are going to insist the answer are all in a book that if everyone has not read, their opinion is wrong, allow me to kindly make sure people read the articles that started this in the first place:

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/2017/10/05/still-booming-with-retirees-the-villages-gives-trump-gop-edge-in-florida/

http://tbtpics.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/ruth-the-florida-legislature-failed-to-protect-seniors/2337885

I never said all Boomers were to blame, indeed, I did make a point that many are fighting the good fight still. However, as someone whose state is literally being targeted by the GOP, those of us younger do have every right to ask why the demographic that yes, is still the largest, voted for Trump.

Also, anyone who think the Gen Xers are the dominant ones does not know us, we have had, and never will have the numbers. The Millennial, aka the generation that is blamed and hated for everything, will have to pick that torch up, and they will have a burden so hard it will make the Boomers and Xers look like they had a cakewalk.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

47. I went in a rather different direction in this thread.

And while you did not say all boomers are to blame, there was the part about boomers moving to Florida. Which I reacted against.

I can speak for myself when I say that I actually get more liberal as I get older, so I find the idea that people my age are getting more conservative and pro-Trump to be a bit strange. Maybe the underlying issue about those who are moving to Florida is the mind-set that is connected to the idea that winter is an unmitigated bad thing. I never got that. I don't get moving away from the place you've lived most of your life for fear of a little snow. But that's just me.

[DonCoquixote]

56. Ok, I hear that

Although to be honest, the real factor is the fact that a lot of place up north have become expensive. My beef with some of the people I mentioned is that the very people who made the North expensive are the Donald trumps, instead of the singing the endless variations on the "THOSE people moved here and there went the neighborhood blues." There is also a selfishness that says "I already paid for schools/roads/hospitals" which is one of the times I can actually emphasize with the true natives who scratch their heads and go "Well you sure live here now and use all of that which you never paid for!"

Sorry if there seemed to be head butting, as there always will be whenever something important is discussed. Without naming names, some people in the thread responses did seem to go towards malice, which I reacted to. However, all we can do is be sincere, show respect, and hopefully, start the reactions that will keep the put the GOP back in the cave where they need to stay.

To quote a Boomer that was is also special to Gen X: Keep on rocking in the free World.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

57. I do not feel as though you and I butted heads.

We did both express opinions and slight differences perhaps, but definitely no head butting.

I personally know people who have moved away from New York State (one from Long Island, one from Syracuse) in no small part because of the higher costs up north, especially property taxes. The first one went to South Carolina, the second to Seattle. I know a remarriage was part of the second, and I think the new spouse may have been from Seattle.

I can get pretty angry with people who don't think they should have to pay for schools/roads/hospitals. Especially the ones who don't want to pay for schools. It has nothing to do with whether or not you currently have kids in the public schools; we all benefit from quality public education. I chose to send my two children to a secular private school and often ruffled feathers there because I openly stated that of course I should still be paying school taxes.

[DonCoquixote]

58. nods "property taxes"

aka the rich do not want to pay their fair share, so they put the burden on the middle class. Still, I laugh when people down here have the nerve to complain about everything from the roads and schools to how you cannot get good NYC pizza, and STILL do not dare question the GOP who support the robber barons that jacked those property taxes up so that they could keep stashing money in China or Switzerland

[HockeyMom]

51. Born in '48 in NYC

The latter made all the difference in the world. My Democrat Dad was a Union Longshoreman, as was my Grandpa. Until I met my husband, the only Republicans I knew where Rich people. Hello, Donald. I will say though if you were female, minority, or gay in those days even in NYC, you were still 2nd class citizens. White, Christian, males, including middle class or poor, were better off.

My Dad was out of work when they containerized shipping, but because he was Union he still was paid. Contrast that with my FIL who was out of luck when the factory closed down. I think that is why my husband became a Republican. He HATES Unions. His family struggled. Mine didn't with Union Contracts and wages.

When my husband lost his job due to IT offshoring several times, he was on his own. When my job was eliminated several times as a Public School Para, I was given another one. UNION and Tenure. Hubby Republican Dear, you are not grateful for MY Union job? We should BOTH be out of work because you hate Unions?

Some people (Republicans) just refuse to see the truth. Hope I didn't get OT with this. I could go on with going back to college in my 40's and moving to Naples, Florida, in our 50's for his job, but that would take up too much space here.

[Willie Pep]

52. I get tired of the anti-Boomer memes myself.

And I am not even a Boomer! You can't blame whole generations for political outcomes since there is a lot of diversity within generations. But the anti-Boomer meme is really dumb. The biggest problem is this idea that Boomers are all spoiled and rich. But the post-war New Deal consensus started to break down as most Boomers started to reach adulthood and plenty of Boomers suffered from economic hardship from the 1970s-today. People forget about the bad recessions like the one in the early 1980s that really hit certain areas very hard. Plenty of Boomers lost their jobs in the last major recession and could not find employment again due to age discrimination and many lost their homes.

Really the GI Generation/Greatest Generation had the best economic fortunes in adulthood even though they had to suffer through the Great Depression and World War II when they were young.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

53. Bingo.

When I was reading Life Magazine during the WWII years, it was peppered with advertisements telling housewives how to make sheets last for the duration of the war, and assuring them that when the war was over they'd be able to buy all the sheets they wanted. Ads assuring them they'd be able to buy silver and china after the war. New dishwashers and clothes washers. Watch their favorite comedians like Bob Hope on television. All after the war.

Among the reasons people willingly did without during the war years was that they were promised they'd be able to spend after the war. And boy, did they spend.

Our economy made a huge transformation after December 7, 1941 to a full-on war manufacturing economy. Less than two months after that date the last car came off the assembly lines, and those lines were put to working making tanks. In July, 1945, the first 1946 Ford was built. The changeover, first to war production and then back to civilian production was in both cases swift and complete.

And as soon as the civilian production came back, there was a lot of money out there to spend on goods and to a lesser extent services. But it was tangible goods that people wanted. And were able to get.

I know that for a while after the war there were housing shortages, but they didn't last that long, mainly because lots of new companies sprang up to build houses.

It was that generation who came of age during the Depression and WWII who, as you noted, had the best economic fortunes in adulthood. They were the ones who could raise a family on only one income, then retire comfortably with a pension and Social Security. The generation just a bit younger, the ones who came of age in the 1950's did pretty well themselves, as did the early Boomers to a large extent. I'm defining early Boomers as those born before 1955 or '56, and when I was a young adult I could clearly see how things were different for them compared to my age-mates.

[MicaelS]

54. I was born in 1957, and if Boomers want credit for changing things....

In a positive manner, then they then have to accept part of the blame when things have gone wrong, too. The reactionary period from 1980s-1990s happened precisely because of the perception of too much, and too many, radical changes in the 1960s. I'm not saying that the changes were not good, and positive, but the changes happened too fast and were too much for some people, including my own age cohort. So the natural result from reactionary.

[burrowowl]

61. K&R!!!!!!