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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy do the idiots think it can?
japple
(9,831 posts)eom
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)And now we are getting a lot of conservative reefer madness ads on radio and TV. A lot of it smoking underage, and driving while high alarmist ads. What I fear now is the police will feel compelled to develop a roadside pot test. And that limit will be so arbitrary and conservative. Now I'm not for driving while blasted, but study after study, even by our own Canadian Senate, has shown that smoking a low/moderate amount, without alcohol, has a neglectable impact. What it boils down to basically is that driving TOO cautiously, (perhaps because you are more paranoid) is way less dangerous than driving too reckless (because of the false sense of bravado that alcohol brings).
But I can see them developing something where if you only had a puff or two in the hours before driving you will be deemed "impaired", costing you thousands and higher insurance, and maybe even your license. I'd have preferred it be kept technically illegal as it is now, with cops just looking for alcohol and if they find any dope, they just confiscate it, as it would tie up the courts too much for every nickel and dime possession charge.
SeattleVet
(5,477 posts)but someone who is stoned will sit there and wait for it to turn green.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)We finally realized he was going about 35 in a 55 mph zone. So it can be dangerous, just for a different reason.
tblue37
(65,403 posts)police. The teens in the car thought they were involved a high speed chase, so they were throwing their weed out of the window as fast as they could so that when the cops finally caught up with them, they wouldn't also get nailed for possession.
But since they were all quite stoned, they didn't realize that they were in a "high speed chase" at about 10 miles an hour. The cops were laughing when they pulled the kids over at last and let them off with a warning.
I am betting the cops collected all the "evidence" the teens threw so frantically out the window and had a pot party after they got off work.
adigal
(7,581 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)I think that was me, actually.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)and this was 31+ years ago when I was 21~22 and I never have since then and don't even do marijuanas any longer - it was 2am and I was sitting at a red light (High AF) and I reached down to fiddle with my radio and out of the corner of my eye I saw green so I started through the intersection - again, late at night, me and one other car on the road and it was going the opposite direction from me - and as I'm going though I look up and realize OH SHIT, I don't have the green, that was just a green left-hand turn arrow but I'm half-way through now and nobody is coming and the other car isn't moving because it was originally going straight the other way.
I say "originally" because as I pass through I look over and see it's a cop. Well fuck. So NOW he flips on his lights and hangs a U-Turn and I just pulled over.
I explained I was just on my way home from fiance's house (true) and we had gone out to dinner at Red Lobster (true) and I had tried shark for the first time (true) and I was feeling sick from that as it didn't agree with me (Also true) and that I was just trying to get home before I threw up (not really all that true. I felt weird but not throw-uppy weird). I don't know if he smelled or saw the roach in my ash-tray but he just gave me a ticket for running the light and sent me on my way. Coulda been worse for sure in many ways.
If we legalize recreational I will smoke again but until then I'm a beer man. And no driving under any influence.
calimary
(81,310 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,564 posts)Cop said he was compelled to tow her car and give her a 24-hour roadside suspension, but he let her keep the 18. (eighth) I know many stories like that. Two detectives walked out of an acquaintance's house and didn't even disturb his grow op, because it was small.
I know a cop in the City (Victoria, I live in Saanich, which is indistinguishable to the casual observer) who said that he NEVER arrests or even confiscates for simple possession, even for heroin. His reasoning is that that addict is going to get some high no matter what, and now he might feel he has to stick up some elderly lady for her pension money.
Not legal, but sensible. The times they are a-changing.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)I'm in Vancouver. I am a little annoyed that Justin is rushing this legalization through. All the usual busy bodies and chicken littles are running around screaming that the sky is falling. And it will make it politically impossible for any leader to NOT demand new very strict pot road side testing. The 'impairment' levels of which will be set by paranoid reactionary conservative people that may never have even tried it.
brewens
(13,593 posts)nail people for driving while stoned. I always felt part of the beauty of legalization would be taking chasing weed smokers away from the cops. Let them use those resources on stopping something really dangerous.
I think history shows how dangerous driving while stoned is. It used to be that the cops couldn't do squat about it, unless they smelled it, searched, and found your weed. If you're like me, you took measures to prevent that. I usually had the weed locked in the trunk, or the tool box on my truck, where they couldn't search so easily.
One night I was stoned to the bone and took a buddy home. I also had a few cases of beer I was dropping off at a buddies house. I worked for a beer distributor and would grab him some on occasion at my discount. I had a tail light out and got pulled over.
So it's late at night. The cops see the beer on my floor board, and the one checking me out quickly sees that my eyes are bleeding! He asks if I have been drinking and I say no. I hadn't and he'd probably already realized he couldn't smell it on me. But I'm out of the truck and doing the field sobriety dance anyway. I pass all that with flying colors and they question me about my eyes. This has to be like over 20 years ago btw. I say, lack of sleep, allergies or whatever.
They had to let me go, but I could tell they were pissed! They knew. My argument is just WTF is the field sobriety test for anyway? If you fail, you must be drunk and that adds to their case for DUI along with what you blow. So if I pass, I must be in pretty good shape to drive right? That's not good enough for them with weed though. They really want to find a way to screw people over it. Around here they are notorious for doing that with drinkers too. Pass that and they still make you blow anyway, just hoping you might be a hair over the limit. That freakin' limit can be like three beers for a lot of people, not even on the way to what most people think of as drunk. It's chickenshit to try so hard to get someone that they can tell is in pretty fair shape to drive.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)..... .....
Persondem
(1,936 posts)"Previous research has found a significant increase in the risk of heart attack in the hours after marijuana use."
"Marijuana users are significantly more likely than nonusers to develop chronic mental disorders, including schizophrenia."
" studies show that marijuana use by mothers during pregnancy may be linked to problems with attention, memory, problem-solving skills, and behavior problems in their children."
"Marijuana use directly affects the brain specifically the parts of the brain responsible for memory, learning, attention, decision making, coordination, emotions, and reaction time."
"Smoke is harmful to lung health. Toxins and carcinogens are released when marijuana is burned. When these toxins and carcinogens are smoked, they are inhaled into the lungs, increasing health risks. Smoke from marijuana contains many of the same toxins, irritants, and carcinogens as tobacco smoke."
So yeah, plenty of adverse effects are possible from using marijuana ... including things that can kill.
From ... https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects.htm
mbusby
(823 posts)...there has been little real science done on marijuana because Sessions refuses to allow researchers to get access to it. The best research comes out of Israel, which debunks all of the 'Reefer Madness' currently in the CDC.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)samnsara
(17,622 posts).....took my dtr who was 7-8 at the time. She got bored.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)progressoid
(49,991 posts)I'll admit to having enjoyed a little to much of a certain strain that made my heart race in the middle of the night. That kind of freaked me out. But I also had the same problem with coffee. My doctor was going to prescribe something for this problem heartbeat problem, but I stopped drinking caffeine and voila, problem solved.
You know what else I found out is bad? The Merlot I've been drinking has 11% of a poisonous and potentially carcinogenic substance in it called alcohol. WTF! How can that be legal?
samnsara
(17,622 posts)..im in that age range so of course it scared me but then I thought what the hell. Anyway its since been disproven.
And yes there is state dependent learning.. cramming for exams when youre high isn't good unless youre gonna be high during the test. But have you ever recalled anything you learned cramming while drunk?
You can choke on puke much like you do when youre drunk....
You can fall down stairs much like you do when youre drunk....
Right now I am enjoying a puff on my Pax...filled with Tangerine Dream as a pain killer. Not high.. a puff here a puff there. Seems to help the torn rotary cuff. As I am scrubbing the floor, doing laundry, dishes, ..doing everything the PT said NOT to do so I know I am going to be in pain. Could down a handful of Advil...naaaaaa...
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Its my go to strain for medical as of right now. Its technically a hybrid, but but the sativa is heavier on the front end, gives you clarity of thought and then gives way to a body mellow and ultimately lulls you to sleep ( if you give in). Oh, before I forget, PT is the smelliest dank Ive ever come across. I have to vape it outside or itll stink up the joint something fierce.
How does Tangerine Dream hit you? I like to relax but I need to get stuff done as well. Im a daily user here for multiple medical issues.
onethatcares
(16,172 posts)are able to differentiate between strains and physical/mental changes amazes this guy from floriduh.
Wow, I don't think they'll ever get around to actually allowing physicians to prescribe without them making the patient jump through burning hoops and walk on water.
I'm a relaxing worker type too, just got look over my shoulder so much I have a problem with my neck.
Peace out!
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)that although we cannot avail ourselves of dispensaries, there are ways to get quality product by strain and name.
If you have a need (or strong desire) dont let the mouth breathers in Tallahassee prevent you....
onethatcares
(16,172 posts)and thank you for your kind words. I understand that entirely.
After over half my life watching this unfold, I never thought I'd be discussing strains of sativa and indica and their relative merits. Sadly, we can:t get our elected reps to sit in a room and toke or ingest. Or they do and we don't get invited to the partay.
OceanChick
(83 posts)I didn't move here because MJ was legal. I moved here because I have MS and I couldn't take the endless Florida summer heat anymore. Heat is awful for those with MS. Florida parking lots are my mortal enemy with the waves of heat rising.
As a former hippie who's been clean and sober for 30 years, the sight of pot stores everywhere in Denver was surrealistic to me. Never did I think I would see people lining up on a Friday night to buy a few joints for the night.
I started doing research and went to a Medical Marijuana doctor. I told him that I wanted to investigate the medicinal uses without getting high. He told me to use high CBD with little to no THC.
I found a cream that has been a miracle for me. Since I have a lot of muscle pain that interrupts my sleep, I rub it on my feet, legs and wrists before bed. I sleep soundly with no leg pain or cramps.
I also take Charlotte's Web, which is a Hemp Oil and is legal in all states. You can get it here: https://www.cwhemp.com. This product has actually eliminated a few lesions in my brain in the 2 years that I've been taking it. It's been a miracle for children with seizure disorders.
What a Brave New World - grateful to be here now!
tblue37
(65,403 posts)hips.)
OceanChick
(83 posts)If you Google "Charlotte's Web" you will find many amazing stories.
I have chronic back, neck and hip pain and I could not have a full life without Charlotte's Web.
Now I walk 3 miles/3 times a week, work out with a personal trainer once a week and am looking for a full-time job again at 66-years-old!
If you go to this link: https://www.cwhemp.com/helpcenter/faqs
you can see that they ship nationwide - even to Kansas.
Good luck!!
grantcart
(53,061 posts)mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)Wishing you all the best.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)There is even info. on which strains to use for different kinds of med problems, based on the kind of terpenes in the plant.
Linalool smells like spring flowers with a spicy hint, good for anxiety and is also found in lavender! LA Confidential and Haze are full of linalool and in oil form its great for burns and acne. RELAXING.
Myrcene is the most prevalent in cannabis, smells like cloves, treats spasms, insomnia, and pain, is found in mango and hops and in strains like White Widow and Pure Kush. SLEEPY.
Limonene is also found in the rinds of citrus fruits, smells like lemon, is found in rosemary and juniper, helps mood and gastrointestinal issues and can be found in OG Kush and Super Lemon Haze. ENERGY.
Beta-caryophyllene is the only terpene that interacts with the bodys endocannabinoid system, smells spicy, is good for anti-inflammatory and autoimmune disorders, is found in black pepper cloves and cotton, and is in strains like Trainwreck. BODY BUZZ.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)"Previous research has found a significant increase in the risk of heart attack in the hours after marijuana use."
https://www.alternet.org/drugs/fact-versus-fiction-three-new-scientific-studies-debunk-marijuana-myths
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28207342
Writing in April in the American Journal of Public Health, an international team of researchers from the United States and Switzerland assessed cumulative cannabis use and cardiovascular risk in a cohort of over 5,000 subjects over a period of more than two decades. Authors reported , "Compared with no marijuana use, cumulative lifetime and recent marijuana use showed no association with incident CVD (cardiovascular disease), stroke or transient ischemic attacks, coronary heart disease, or CVD mortality." They concluded, "In this community-based cohort of young adults followed for more than 25 years, we found no evidence to suggest that cumulative lifetime or recent marijuana use, at levels typical of most recreational, occasional users of marijuana in the United States, affects risk of future CVD events through middle age
"Marijuana users are significantly more likely than nonusers to develop chronic mental disorders, including schizophrenia."
Studies have shown that young people that are susceptible to mental illness and schizophrenia should not be smoking pot as it can make it worse. But that does not apply to the vast majority of users.
" studies show that marijuana use by mothers during pregnancy may be linked to problems with attention, memory, problem-solving skills, and behavior problems in their children."
Same with alcohol. Its not rocket science. If you are pregnant you shouldn't be doing drugs or drinking.
"Marijuana use directly affects the brain specifically the parts of the brain responsible for memory, learning, attention, decision making, coordination, emotions, and reaction time."
love the way they conflate each of those conditions into one big clusterfuck. All of those conditions are temporary if minor. You don't lose your brain. And the motor skills like attention, decision making, coordination, and reaction time, are negligible even when operating a motor vehicle. In fact one is more attentive driving in a way because you are aware you need to be, and the harm is usually driving too slow than driving too fast. NORML has a variety of studies showing the mild effect it has on motor skills and driving.
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
"Smoke is harmful to lung health. Toxins and carcinogens are released when marijuana is burned. When these toxins and carcinogens are smoked, they are inhaled into the lungs, increasing health risks. Smoke from marijuana contains many of the same toxins, irritants, and carcinogens as tobacco smoke."
I'd believe the The National Center for Biotechnology Information journal over a government website:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
In conclusion, while both tobacco and cannabis smoke have similar properties chemically, their pharmacological activities differ greatly. Components of cannabis smoke minimize some carcinogenic pathways whereas tobacco smoke enhances some. Both types of smoke contain carcinogens and particulate matter that promotes inflammatory immune responses that may enhance the carcinogenic effects of the smoke. However, cannabis typically down-regulates immunologically-generated free radical production by promoting a Th2 immune cytokine profile. Furthermore, THC inhibits the enzyme necessary to activate some of the carcinogens found in smoke. In contrast, tobacco smoke increases the likelihood of carcinogenesis by overcoming normal cellular checkpoint protective mechanisms through the activity of respiratory epithelial cell nicotine receptors. Cannabinoids receptors have not been reported in respiratory epithelial cells (in skin they prevent cancer), and hence the DNA damage checkpoint mechanism should remain intact after prolonged cannabis exposure. Furthermore, nicotine promotes tumor angiogenesis whereas cannabis inhibits it. It is possible that as the cannabis-consuming population ages, the long-term consequences of smoking cannabis may become more similar to what is observed with tobacco. However, current knowledge does not suggest that cannabis smoke will have a carcinogenic potential comparable to that resulting from exposure to tobacco smoke.
It should be noted that with the development of vaporizers, that use the respiratory route for the delivery of carcinogen-free cannabis vapors, the carcinogenic potential of smoked cannabis has been largely eliminated [47,48].
Some other laughable gems from that site:
There is mixed evidence about whether marijuana can cause cancer, partly because most people who use marijuana also use tobacco, a substance that does cause cancer
Ah....no, for one. Most people who use marijuana do NOT smoke tobaco, at least not today. And also...of course its more carcinogenic to smoke both, ITS BECAUSE OF THE NICOTINE NOT THE THC. But further more, marijuana may in fact inhibit cancer growth:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/279571.php
"THC, the major active component of marijuana, has anti-cancer properties. This compound is known to act through a specific family of cell receptors called cannabinoid receptors," says Dr. Peter McCormick, from UEA's School of Pharmacy.
Poisoning
Eating foods or drinking beverages that contain marijuana have some different risks than smoking marijuana, including a greater risk of poisoning.
Oh my gawd. Can they reach any more? No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose. Only if you injected cyanide into a brownie would it be 'poisonous'.
Sorry but even if there were some small amount of truth somewhere on that page, it has lost all credibility from all the hyperbole, bait-switching and downright lies.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)First you seem to have not noticed that you are using .gov websites yourself ...
"I'd believe the The National Center for Biotechnology Information journal over a government website:"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
Guess you didn't see that .gov there at the end. You did that twice, so you lose points there.
I followed some of your links (thank you for including them) and found 2 major studies were based on participant self reported data. Not the best source of data. Also, one of them had 408 participants that were divided into 4 groups, one with about 40 individuals and 2 groups with an n in the 80's. Those sample sizes are too small to generalize to any greater population. Further one study relied on data that was based on past use of pot. So they basically checked the box that said "have you ever used pot" and then conclusions were made without information as to frequency, intensity or duration of pot use or initial age when beginning to use pot. I cannot get at more detailed info as you only provided links to the abstracts not the full studies.
There is way more to tobacco than nicotine (most of it bad), and way more to pot than THC (some of it bad), especially when smoked and inhaled.
The support for your position isn't as good as you think it is. Look at this way - inhaling burning stuff is not good for human health; smoke messes with our lungs. Isolating THC and using it in a medicinal sense gets at the benefits without much of the detriments. Unfortunately smoking it is still how most people partake.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)From "it can kill" to "isn't as good as you think..."
Quite the deft movement of goalposts on your part.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)Which is why more people are vaping now, or using concentrates or edibles.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)But there are many things in life that are not all good for you. Too much of anything can kill you. The point is that like alcohol, or even coffee or sugar, salt, etc...there are risks. What irks me is this over the top hyperbole and exaggeration of the potential harmful effects.
Take alcohol. Nothing better on a warm summer day, after a days work, or beside a lake, pouring that first ice cold beer down your throat. Or sipping a nice scotch with an old friend in the evening. But the extreme end is the untold death and destruction found in any skid row area of any major city. Conversely, nothing better than sitting back on a winter day curled up beside a fire, with the Beatles or Pink Floyd swooning you over the speakers and smoke a nice reefer. But the extreme end of that is what?...probably sitting in a jail cell for getting caught with it in one of the more draconian Southern States.
You are right, I did overlook that the NCBL site was also sponsored by the government. But might I just suggest that the CFDC is more of a political all-in-one site, that can be prone to shaping it in whatever way the current government wants, and the NCBL site is more of a nitty gritty scientific study site.
Either way, that was just information that I found putting in a few minutes of googling. There is a lot of studies that come to similar conclusions. But its also difficult to get a lot of peer reviewed studies on effects of marijuana because governments are too politically afraid to pay for them.
I've been using pot for most of my life. Mostly recreational, but lately, with my health problems, for medicinal reasons also. And I am switching to a vaporizer now. I agree that smoking anything into your lungs is not good. Even though other studies show even smoking does not increase your risk of lung cancer. An article I found with a couple of videos interviewing a doctor Tashkin from UCLA Geffen School of Medicine that backs that up.
http://anonhq.com/what-does-marijuana-do-to-your-lungs/
I just found that CFDC site so full of BS that I had to respond. They defeat their own message by filling it with such balderdash. Lying by omission and bait switching etc..
The over-riding message is always: Nothing to excess; let moderation be your guide - Cicero
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)What the heart attack rate is among people just holding their breath. O2 sats go down and heart needs to pump harder.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)That's hilarious!! 😆👍🏾
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)just like ciggies, only not as toxic. Better to eat sugarfree brownies.
Callmecrazy
(3,065 posts)Marijuana has been shown to actually reduce tumors. Pot helps fight and prevent cancer.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Smoking anything will cause cellular damage in your lungs, but the chemistry of the smoked cannabis doesn't lead to the cancerous effects of smoking tobacco despite lots of similiarities in what you're inhaling. Can even reduce tumor growth rather than contribute to it. I'm no chemist, but that's what I gather from this paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
Bottom line is that organic chemistry is damn complicated, so small differences can lead to wildly different results.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Smoke weed for a couple of years, then try running and see if you can go as far and fast as you did before inhaling smoke into your lungs for years.
It's safer to get it in some other form.
Callmecrazy
(3,065 posts)I've smoked weed for 35 years and run 3 miles 3x a week. Pot smoke has not been shown to damage the lungs. At least not mine.
Speaking from experience.
Pot is as good for you as aspirin and aloe vera.
No more "yeah, but" about it. Pot has been used as food for over 4000 years.
Kali
(55,013 posts)not from the pot directly, but from the effects of dehydration and/or extreme vomiting. it is a strange paradoxical syndrome called Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome
http://www.mdedge.com/currentpsychiatry/article/77691/addiction-medicine/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome-result-chronic
many use marijuana for nausea and pain relief, but those with this problem suffer from the symptoms of nausea and severe upper abdominal pain because they smoke. there is danger in not knowing about this syndrome because a lot - if not most - suffering from it continue to use pot in hopes of alleviating the symptoms.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Doctors can't counsel their patients effectively when they have to admit to a crime (or at least to knowing criminals) by the federal definitions. And if their answer is anything other than "You shouldn't do that" on record, they're potentially risking their licenses.
So a patient, knowing the answer that has to be given, isn't going to ask the question to learn that in their case, it's not a good idea for legitimate reasons vs CYA.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)of the drug!
Reduces the anxiety; helps them sleep; helps with pain; and helps with nausea.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)Cookie, yum. 😴
Skittles
(153,169 posts)Scruffy1
(3,256 posts)Marijuana smoke contains carcinogens and this could be a problem for anyone. No smoke is good for lungs.
Skittles
(153,169 posts)(jeez I hope that is not an accurate pun)
WTF was I thinking?
moriah
(8,311 posts)And by vaporizer, I mean thingie that heats the plant to lower-than-combustion temperatures, not extracts. I'm very hesitant about playing too much with natural plants. Heated oil extraction for oral administration (to activate certain chemicals a certain level of heat is needed, but not to combustion, and all elements seem equally fat-soluble) is about as far as I think we should tinker.
PufPuf23
(8,785 posts)you could die.
Unfortunately, I have never observed that large a marijuana crate. But is it the crate material or the marijuana within that is the killer?
Thank you for raising awareness of other ways to be killed by marijuana.
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)One time I got giggling so hard I thought I was going to die. Or piss my pants
donotpissoffacow
(91 posts)...sitting with a couple of friends on a rocky creek bank listening to the lazy hum of summer bees when somebody yelled "Don't anybody move!". My friends and I looked around to find an angry water moccasin within striking distance behind us. It hadn't been bees we heard. Three of us leaped up at once and fled. I think we broke a stoner speed record and confused hell out of that snake.
Response to JimGinPA (Original post)
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