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IMO, a draft without being called a draft, recalling a 1000 retired pilots. (Original Post) CK_John Oct 2017 OP
I'm assuming some are commercial pilots at this point Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #1
That will sure boost airlines recruitment. FigTree Oct 2017 #9
What are your concerns you mention in your post? Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #12
The way it reminds me of Korea and Vietnam Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #16
It is going to be Iraq, Viet Nam and Korea all over again. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #17
Even if this doesn't turn into a worst-case scenario Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #18
The Iraqi/Afghanistan war has cost $2.4 Trillion to date. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #19
Even over a decade and a half, a lot of that is basically consumable Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #22
So where did the $2.4 Trillion go? Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #24
Troop pay, food, clothing, medical care, base construction, fuel, attrition of vehicles, Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #27
Thank you, very interesting. We pay to destroy things, then pay to rebuild it. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #28
Sometimes you can trust them Pope George Ringo II Oct 2017 #29
I know people who work in military procurement. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #36
Something is afoot. Sneederbunk Oct 2017 #2
I really have no doubt a war with NK is sadly in the future. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2017 #5
Some one Wellstone ruled Oct 2017 #3
I suspect enlistments are down, as well. GoCubsGo Oct 2017 #6
Stay tuned, eventually a national draft will occur for all abled bodies. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2017 #4
Trumps religious reich backers demand Armageddon in the Middle East workinclasszero Oct 2017 #31
As global respect for the US sinks even lower. By the time the ass in the WH finishes RKP5637 Oct 2017 #32
I wish we had the system that the UK has workinclasszero Oct 2017 #34
IMHO...The draft will never happen again in my lifetime. Old Vet Oct 2017 #38
Never thought I'd say it but maybe a draft is not such a bad thing... bagelsforbreakfast Oct 2017 #7
The draft helped kill the Viet Nam war. So they cannot go that route again. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #14
The late Colonel Hackworth's thoughts on the draft that this dumb draftee finds little fault in Brother Buzz Oct 2017 #15
And the draftees fragged worthless superior officers. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #30
Except when we did have a draft rich pricks like Trump suddenly came down with bone spurs and got workinclasszero Oct 2017 #35
Explaining the shortage (its more than money). karadax Oct 2017 #8
The AF pilots shortage has been an issue for several years Lee-Lee Oct 2017 #10
Do they really think NK or Iran will stay an air war? roamer65 Oct 2017 #11
So the war against NK is going to be an air war? Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #13
No, bombing weapons centers and military/political command centers. former9thward Oct 2017 #23
Ask Cheney, he is the one who wanted civilian populations targeted. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #25
I have followed the situation in the Middle East. former9thward Oct 2017 #33
Examples of the GOP acting badly and killing civilians. Irish_Dem Oct 2017 #37
Civilians have died under all Presidents in the Mid East War. former9thward Oct 2017 #39
link... spanone Oct 2017 #20
I read up to 1500 somewhere. Yeah, they all thought Alice11111 Oct 2017 #26
More drones. yortsed snacilbuper Oct 2017 #21

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
1. I'm assuming some are commercial pilots at this point
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 01:35 PM
Oct 2017

But this is pretty similar to what we did with Korea and Vietnam, which is not the most reassuring thought I've had today. Still, I presume there are plans to train them up and spread them out. For reasons of both cost justification and quality, our first-day pilots at this point are flying F-22s, while the second-day pilots are flying F-35s, and we're not talking about much overlap between the recalls and either of those two, anyway.

It's concerning on several fronts, but I'm not too worried about sending the poor guys into a bloodbath.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
17. It is going to be Iraq, Viet Nam and Korea all over again.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:40 PM
Oct 2017

Many deaths and wounded. And the military industrial complex makes huge amounts of money.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
18. Even if this doesn't turn into a worst-case scenario
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:44 PM
Oct 2017

Having that much trouble retaining personnel is a problem for any military, but given how the United States has been incapable of matching capabilities to requirements since the end of the Cold War, you doubt the ability to maintain low/medium-level conflicts or even react to occasional mobilizations.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
19. The Iraqi/Afghanistan war has cost $2.4 Trillion to date.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:48 PM
Oct 2017

Seems like the military should be up to speed with that kind of money.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
22. Even over a decade and a half, a lot of that is basically consumable
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:15 PM
Oct 2017

A lot of the rest is disposable. Wars have seldom been a great investment but especially in the modern age are unbelievably expensive and wasteful. Staggering as that number is, the Navy has been getting a waiver every year for a couple of decades to run with an illegally small number of carriers, the air force's fleet is getting old, the marines are cannibalizing aircraft in smaller squadrons, the army's tank is 40 years old, we don't have enough troops to meet commitments and still rotate them out of combat zones enough, etc. In terms of infrastructure, we're still sorting our way through cyberwarfare, hypersonic weapons, directed-energy weapons, and the implications of big data on submarine warfare, so it's a little hard to sort out what the good investments are anyway. And don't get me started on the VA and its funding.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying we need to fund an army which can conquer the world; I'm saying we should match our expectations with our budget. If we don't want to pay for all those things, that's one thing and I'm fine with it--but we shouldn't send troops out there unprepared to die in never-ending pointless fights with broken-down junk. If we're going to risk their lives all over the world, we owe it to them to do it for a good reason and to do it with the best gear and training possible. Paying for a small bad military and burning it up acting like you have a big good military also tends to have foreign policy problems. Figure out what you want as a country and live with it. The US can't figure it out, though.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
24. So where did the $2.4 Trillion go?
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:19 PM
Oct 2017

And if it did not go to military hardware, where did it go?

I agree with you, but believe that we should not have a huge military, and act accordingly as you say.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
27. Troop pay, food, clothing, medical care, base construction, fuel, attrition of vehicles,
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:32 PM
Oct 2017

ammunition, maintenance, port fees, private contractors, private security, supplies of weapons for the local client forces, drone purchases, support for allies, bribes to local warlords, reconstruction of things our troops blew up on purpose, reconstruction of things our troops blew up accidentally, and I'm sure the list only gets longer.

A full list is available from the government, no doubt, but things like modernization and equipment were never part of the published cost of the war. Blowing things up gets expensive.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
28. Thank you, very interesting. We pay to destroy things, then pay to rebuild it.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:37 PM
Oct 2017

Seems like a nice racket for someone.

I wonder how much is out right theft. A friend of mine had a husband fighting in Iraq, he would come home on leave with his backpack full of US cash. Told her to keep quiet about it and hid it under the bed.

And I would never trust the government accounting of military expenditures. I don't think that there has ever been an accurate accounting of the Pentagon.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
29. Sometimes you can trust them
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:42 PM
Oct 2017

The Pentagon have to balance "We're being responsible" with "OMG! Would you look at that! We need more stuff!" The trick is figuring out which one you're getting and acting accordingly.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
36. I know people who work in military procurement.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 11:24 PM
Oct 2017

And it is as you say, some are responsible, some are not.

And some try to complain that the equipment they are buying is outdated and told to shut up and make the purchase.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
3. Some one
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 01:47 PM
Oct 2017

some time back,posted a story about the number of Military Retirements spiked after last November.

GoCubsGo

(32,095 posts)
6. I suspect enlistments are down, as well.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 01:55 PM
Oct 2017

People are seeing the writing on the wall, and they are trying to avoid becoming cannon fodder.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
31. Trumps religious reich backers demand Armageddon in the Middle East
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:01 PM
Oct 2017

We are setting up for an all out war for starters with Iran even as we speak. Trump just signed an EO giving him the power to call up all retired military vets, no caps. He is planning on recalling 1000 aircraft pilots as well.

War is coming folks, it's right around the corner. Trump aint doing these things for shits and grins. Nuclear war in NK and the middle east simultaneously? Who knows. The MIC needs the blood of many more poor Americans trapped in the economic draft.

Trump’s Iran Derangement
Roger Cohen OCT. 11, 2017

BERLIN — If President Trump decertifies the Iran nuclear deal this week, as seems likely, “it will show total disrespect for America’s allies,” Wolfgang Ischinger, the former German ambassador to the United States, told me. That’s the least of it. This — and I know competition is stiff — would be the rashest, most foolish act of the Trump administration to date.

The president’s refusal to certify an accord his own defense secretary, James Mattis, says Iran is upholding, and is in the American national interest, would send a strong signal that the United States has become a bait-and-switch power whose word is worthless.

It’s America’s word as solemn gage that has underwritten global security since 1945. Goodbye to all that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/opinion/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
32. As global respect for the US sinks even lower. By the time the ass in the WH finishes
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:05 PM
Oct 2017

any respect left for America will be because none wants a bomb dropped on them, or have their hand out for money. It is absolutely disgraceful what this ass in the WH is getting away with. And, we have a useless 13% approval rating congress.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
34. I wish we had the system that the UK has
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:11 PM
Oct 2017

If I understand it correctly..if the government falls to a low enough level, national elections are held right away.

We would be done with these world destroying pigs already but we are trapped for 4 years at least. The republican Congress will never impeach their fuhrer and Pence is a nightmare as well anyway.

Old Vet

(2,001 posts)
38. IMHO...The draft will never happen again in my lifetime.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 11:53 PM
Oct 2017

This really bothers me if its true, And yes the DOD did the same shit during the 60s and 70s pulling retired pilots out for active duty. I flew with a lot of them, they were commissioned Warrant Officers.

 

bagelsforbreakfast

(1,427 posts)
7. Never thought I'd say it but maybe a draft is not such a bad thing...
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:11 PM
Oct 2017

for democracy. It gives everyone skin in the game and might prevent more of these never-ending wars we're in.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
14. The draft helped kill the Viet Nam war. So they cannot go that route again.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:29 PM
Oct 2017

Easier to keep a poor underclass who will jump at the chance to join the military.

Brother Buzz

(36,469 posts)
15. The late Colonel Hackworth's thoughts on the draft that this dumb draftee finds little fault in
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:32 PM
Oct 2017

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Colonel David Hackworth

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
30. And the draftees fragged worthless superior officers.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:45 PM
Oct 2017

Drug use, lack of discipline, a faulty mission and poor strategy. It was not a sustainable operation.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
35. Except when we did have a draft rich pricks like Trump suddenly came down with bone spurs and got
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:15 PM
Oct 2017

exempted.

Or POS right wing traitors like Ted Nugent shit themselves and acted crazy and got out of it too.

karadax

(284 posts)
8. Explaining the shortage (its more than money).
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:12 PM
Oct 2017

Pilots want to fly ! They also want to learn to fly.


[link:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html|

Everhart said the Air Force stands potentially to lose 1,600 pilots who are eligible to separate from the service in the next four years.

He has been working with an AMC aviation retention task force for the past few months, trying to come up with recommendations as a result of airman feedback.

That feedback includes: Flying has become secondary to administrative duties; airmen desire more stability for themselves and their families; they lack support personnel; and they fear the impact of service politics on their career paths.

Airman feedback has resulted in one concrete move -- the removal of additional duties, a common complaint.


The training is a big bottleneck. It can be fixed.
 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
10. The AF pilots shortage has been an issue for several years
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:18 PM
Oct 2017

Sadly, while I don't like the solution, the root of the problem we can't dump on Trump in this case.

roamer65

(36,747 posts)
11. Do they really think NK or Iran will stay an air war?
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:19 PM
Oct 2017

If so, it just may be largest miscalculation in human history.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
23. No, bombing weapons centers and military/political command centers.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:18 PM
Oct 2017

Why would anyone care about bombing the populace?

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
25. Ask Cheney, he is the one who wanted civilian populations targeted.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:20 PM
Oct 2017

Bagdad was over 50% women and children when we bombed the city with depleted uranium.

And Trump has increased civilian targets since he has been president.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
33. I have followed the situation in the Middle East.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 05:11 PM
Oct 2017

Why you skipped from Cheney to Trump I don't know. There were 8 long years of bombing and missile strikes in between. Someone was doing them and plenty of people died. Of course during those years the anti-war movement went into a shell and pretended nothing was happening.

Irish_Dem

(47,456 posts)
37. Examples of the GOP acting badly and killing civilians.
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 11:28 PM
Oct 2017

Speculating what Trump might do in NK, what he is currently doing in the mideast, and what other GOP leaders have done in the past.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
39. Civilians have died under all Presidents in the Mid East War.
Sun Oct 22, 2017, 10:32 AM
Oct 2017

The fact you don't want to recognize that is part of the problem.

spanone

(135,886 posts)
20. link...
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 02:50 PM
Oct 2017

Air Force could recall as many as 1,000 retired pilots to address serious shortage

WASHINGTON — President Trump signed an executive order Friday allowing the Air Force to recall as many as 1,000 retired pilots to active duty to address a shortage in combat fliers, the White House and Pentagon announced.

By law, only 25 retired officers can be brought back to serve in any one branch. Trump's order removes those caps by expanding a state of national emergency declared by President George W. Bush after 9/11, signaling what could be a significant escalation in the 16-year-old global war on terror.

"We anticipate that the Secretary of Defense will delegate the authority to the Secretary of the Air Force to recall up to 1,000 retired pilots for up to three years," Navy Cdr. Gary Ross, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.

But the executive order itself is not specific to the Air Force, and could conceivably be used in the future to call up more officers and in other branches.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
26. I read up to 1500 somewhere. Yeah, they all thought
Sat Oct 21, 2017, 03:31 PM
Oct 2017

Their service was over & went out to build lives for themselves. Guess this means, once you are in the military, you can always be uprooted. The military really tried hard to recruit my daughter, who is a doctor, and trained in PTSD. The salary and benefits, including forgiving student loans, were really good. They told her she would just be working in VA hospitals. I was thinking that she should. TG she declined.

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