Do you think the term flyover country is offensive?

[LonePirate]

The term is shorthand for the vast area of states between the Atlantic and Pacific coasts. Gulf coast and Great Lake states (except for Eastern Florida and the Chicago metroplex) are typically included in this area. However the term is sometimes used to dismiss the people in those states as unimportant, uninformed or out of touch.

45 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I find the term offensive and I am from an east/west coast state.
	10 (22%)
	I find the term offensive and I am from a state not along the east/west coast.
	8 (18%)
	I do not find the term offensive and I am from an east/west coast state.
	13 (29%)
	I do not find the term offensive and I am from a state not along the east/west coast.
	13 (29%)
	Do not know/Do not care/Other
	1 (2%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[d_r]

1. sure

I mean in an academic sense, but not so offensive I'm bothered by it or anything.

[treestar]

2. Now we know they are not unimportant

If they are from swing states, or low electoral vote count states/low population states, their votes count for more than ours in the cities or more populated states do.

[murielm99]

3. I am from rural Illinois.

I find the term Rust Belt offensive, too. We still have a great deal of viable industry here. We have agriculture as well.

I am tired of the disrespect. My husband and I are some of the Democrats who have spent a lifetime keeping the party alive in this area. Sometimes we gain, sometimes we don't. But we never give up.

Try helping us instead of sneering at us.

[octoberlib]

4. It's condescending.

[whathehell]

76. It's stupid as well, considering those "flyover states" include

great cities like New Orleans, Chicago, Santa Fe, and some of the most spectacular scenery in the nation, i.e. Grand Canyon, Zion and Yellowstone National Parks and SO much more.

FWIW, I'm a native East Coaster who's lived in Chicago for 20 years now, and wouldn't dream of returning.

[maxsolomon]

5. Its supposed to be a joke

And it's only people in the entertainment industry that used it. all their business is in NY or LA.

It encompasses 99.9% of the country, parts of both coasts, and AK. it's akin to the New Yorker cover looking west with Jersey and that's about it.

[Thor_MN]

9. Like Betty Price saying that HIV positive people should be quarantined?

Like Trump joked Pence 'wants to hang' all gay people?
Or when he said that police shouldn't be too nice when transporting suspects?
Or when he said that there might be 2nd Amendment solution if Hillray were elected?

Jokes like that?

[maxsolomon]

14. Yeah, jokes like that

Exactly equivalent. EXACTLY.

That New Yorker cover is from 1976. That's how old "flyover country" is, too. But go ahead, get your knickers in a twist over it.

[LonePirate]

17. While the term may not have been derogatory back in 1976, it has certainly become so in 41 years.

[maxsolomon]

19. Almost any term can be used in a derogatory manner

To whit: "Bless your heart" as a backhanded compliment.

What people are resenting in the term "Flyover Country" is the implication of Provincialism. As if Midwesterners (MI, WI, OH, IA) were rubes, and somehow more vulnerable to a Reality-TV Con Man telling them lies that conform to their innate prejudices and resentments.

I don't let Trump Voters off the hook that easy. I'm from Ohio and I know they know better.

[LonePirate]

32. The term applies to all residents of those areas, not just his voters and it applies to you as well.

[maxsolomon]

35. Well, I'm from there

But now I'm a Coastal Elitist.

[Thor_MN]

25. Gee, the "N" word goes back to the 16th century, so I guess people should just get over it, huh?

Derogatory phrases are derogatory phrases.

So go ahead, keep justifying it.

[maxsolomon]

34. You think "Flyover Country" is equivalent to "Nigger"?

Go ahead, keep stuffing words in my mouth. It's quite apparent you want to take offense.

[Thor_MN]

38. Equivalent, no. But in your tortured logic, it should be less offensive than "Flyover Country"

It's been around longer, so it should be less offensive, according to your statement.

I don't have to put words in your mouth, what you are saying is quite enough.

I don't want to take offense, it should be fairly obvious that I do.

Keep trying to explaining it away and normalizing it, you think it's a joke.

[Orrex]

53. That's an offensive comparison, and you're clearly desperate to be pissed off about nothing

Find us one example of a resident of a flyover state being lynched specifically because they're from a flyover state.

Absent that, please recognize that you've proposed an idiotic comparison.

[LonePirate]

56. That was indeed an extreme and bad comparison, although other comparisons are apt.

It is certainly on par with a term like “honky” and other terms that do not have a history of racist murders and other illegal and harmful behavior.

[Orrex]

58. This honky is fine with that.

Honestly, though, I noted below that I've never heard "flyover states" used without the term simultaneously implying a snobbishness or elitism in the coastal residents.

I have no doubt that those in the "flyover states" have a different experience, of course. I guess the trade-off is that, say, Wyoming residents get a much bigger say in the presidential election that California residents do.

[Thor_MN]

60. If you bothered to read with any comprehension at all,

You would have noticed that I have said that they are not equivalent, but by the other poster's logic that time somehow makes derogatory words valid, that the "N" word should be less offensive, since it has been around hundreds of years longer.

It is an idiotic comparison to point out the other poster's idiotic statement.

It seems obvious that you are desperate to be pissed off, while I am pointing out a fallacy...

Have a nice day, maybe try switching to decaf, they have many blends that taste just as good as the real thing.

[Orrex]

63. No shit they're not equivalent, and you're misrepresenting the other person's logic

The logic is that the term "flyover states" has been around for 40+ years and has never had anything like the connotation of the n-word.

It seems obvious that you are desperate to be pissed off, while I am pointing out a fallacy...

No, that's not it. You are equivocating (a fallacy) by treating the terms as if they were connotatively equivalent ("Derogatory phrases are derogatory phrases," as you note).

Have a nice day, maybe try switching to decaf, they have many blends that taste just as good as the real thing.

Well, that's even dumber than your original comparison. Good luck weeping about the wrongs you've suffered as a beleaguered resident of the flyover states.

[Thor_MN]

65. Have a nice day, you obvously are self confident that you know everything

I never said that they were equivalent, that YOUR misrepresentation. In fact, I said that they were not, if you bothered to read, rather than jumping into a conversation that you only read part of.

[Orrex]

68. But you *did* frame them as equivalent.

Perhaps you didn't read what you wrote. Frankly, I don't blame you, because it's rather tedious, but here's what you dumped onto the screen:

Derogatory phrases are derogatory phrases.

Perhaps you think that you were being subtle and ironic, rather than ham-fisted and inarticulate. More's the pity.


I'm not particularly stupid, LanternWaste is certainly no dummy, and LonePirate seems pretty sharp, yet somehow all of us were too dim to grasp the profundity of your wise rhetoric.

Or maybe your comparison was idiotic, badly chosen, and poorly articulated.

[Thor_MN]

71. Perhaps you don't understand what a question mark means?

Last edited Tue Oct 24, 2017, 04:13 PM - Edit history (1)

I asked a question of the other poster. I never said that were equivalent.

Maybe a remedial reading skills course for you would be appropriate. Your not understanding what I wrote is not my problem, it is yours.

I explicitly said that they were not equivalent.

Boats are boats, but only an idiot would think that a kayak and an 800' iron ore carrier are equivalent. A total moron would declare that elephants and mouses are equivalent as they are both mammals.

[Orrex]

75. Nope, keep trying

Here's what you should write to make sure that no one misunderstands teh comparison:

I posited a stupid comparison, and my every post since then has been weaker still. If I had it to do over again, I would have made that idiotic comparison, and I can see why my poorly worded post causes some frustration in readers.

Go ahead and copy-and-paste that as your own. It'll make you look much less silly.

[Thor_MN]

80. Hell, you are the one looking silly as I have already posted

that is was a ridiculous comparison to point out the ridiculous logic used by the other poster.

You just have your feelings hurt because you made such a stupid conclusion from one post. Your lack of understanding what a question mark means is blatantly telling. My posts have all been about your colossal mistake. You appear to have nothing but the bluster of a bully caught out in a major lie. Your next post will probably be about that your dad can beat up my dad.

Go ahead keep beating a dead horse - have you noticed that you are all alone, despite your claims of being smart?

[Orrex]

84. Where did I claim that I am smart?

I have rightly asserted that your comparison was offensive, and I applaud your after the fact efforts to make it seem that you weren't being serious. Almost convincing.

I have also observed that your rhetoric is weak, and so far there's been no improvement.

[Thor_MN]

88. Jesus, you don't even read what you yourself write.

"I'm not particularly stupid, LanternWaste is certainly no dummy, and LonePirate seems pretty sharp, yet somehow all of us were too dim to grasp the profundity of your wise rhetoric. "

You have no rhetoric, you are only throwing insults to cover your lack of comprehension. Have you googled question mark yet?

Your basic flaw is that you think you understand what you clearly don't. You actually suggested (twice) that I post something that I already said. Keep up the good work, Sparky.

[Orrex]

90. And you apparently didn't read what you cited.

Your nonsense got old about 10,919 posts ago.

[Thor_MN]

91. Weak. Even for you.

Aren't you getting tired of winning yet? Your ass has been spanked so much that it looks like Cheetolini's face.

Make a point that I can't slap down or go quiver in a corner? Have you found a definition for "question mark" yet? Do you comprehend the difference between asking a question and making a declarative statement?

Is English your third or fourth language? I'd be able to accept your apparent lack of understanding if that is the case.

[LanternWaste]

59. What is the precise and relevant equivalence

What is the precise and relevant equivalence between the demographics of a geographical region and implicit violence against gays and lesbians in regards to humor?

[Thor_MN]

61. Try reading my follow up post to the person that proposed that time makes everything better.

There is no equivalence, I made a reference to show that the age of "Flyover Country" does not mean that it is OK.

Doesn't anyone read these days?

[Orrex]

64. Perhaps you should write as if you know how to write

Rather than spilling nonsense onto the screen and scolding people who don't recognize your subtle brilliance.

[Thor_MN]

66. Like I said, have a nice day.

Perhaps you should try to understand a conversation instead of knee jerking on one post.

[Orrex]

69. Your posts get weaker and weaker as you go along

At this rate, you'll soon be posting blank messages with no subject line, and the discussion will be better off for it.

[Thor_MN]

72. No, I am try not to escalate your obviously lack of experience with the English language.

Since you don't understand how question marks change the meaning of a sentence. Coupled with your tenacious defense of your blunder, I don't want to spend all day explaining what a question mark means to someone as bullheaded as you appear to be.

Stop doubling down on your mistake and have a nice day.

[Orrex]

74. Weaker still

Stop doubling down on your mistake and have a nice day.

LOL. You would benefit from even an ounce of self-awareness.

[Thor_MN]

82. Just like Trump, nothing whatsoever except your made up stories...

[Orrex]

85. Wow. Weak, even for you.

[RhodeIslandOne]

83. Seriously?

What an awful comparison. You get zero points.

[LisaM]

30. Funny, I have that very picture on my office wall and now I'm looking at them together.

However, I do not like the term (I'm from Michigan, currently trapped in Amazonia, I mean, Seattle).

[vi5]

6. Well maybe the folks in those states can console themselves...

...with the fact that they are treated and referred to as "real americans" and pandered to relentlessly as though they are the only votes that matter and that their jobs and needs are the only ones of importance because that sure is how the media and a good chunk of politicians (Dems included) seem to act and treat them.

[pnwmom]

7. I think the term "swing state" is offensive. But getting rid of the word

wouldn't change the reality that some votes count for more than others, and most of them are in "fly-over country."

[whathehell]

78. I'm sorry, but how is "swing state" offensive?..

I don't understand that.

[pnwmom]

79. The concept is offensive. The concept that some votes matter more than others.

In the Presidential election, almost 3 million votes didn't count at all, because they were in blue states, not swing states.

Unfortunately, that's built into our system.

[whathehell]

81. Ok, I understand you now. n/t.

[Fresh_Start]

8. no more so then 'liberal elites' but the worst term is 'moral majority'

referring to them and implying that anyone who disagrees with them is immoral or amoral.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. It is an accurate description of the relationship at hand

[Drahthaardogs]

11. I am from the west

As far as we are concerned the coasts don't mean anything and the Mason Dixon line mean even less.

There are two kinds of people, easterners and westerners and easterners are not to be trusted.😁😁

[JI7]

12. How about the 'heartland'. It's not used in a negative way the way descriptions of the coasts are

[FSogol]

15. It's called the heartland because the brain isn't there.

- Bob Newhart, IIRC

[whathehell]

77. Fuck Newhart..

and whoever.

[sarisataka]

13. Context is important

But I see term used more and more often as a derogatory label

[doc03]

16. It is like saying people on the coasts are superior to us

we produced the energy and steel that made their cities possible. We don't have to
live in a gated community or have security system here either.

[maxsolomon]

21. People in Flyover Country have security systems - my Dad & Brother do.

Gated Communities exist all over Merica.

The NW Coast produces hydro power that is sold all over Merica.

The NW Coast provided the wood that built much of Merica.

Get out more.

[doc03]

22. There is no such thing that I know of around

here.

[maxsolomon]

23. OK...

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

http://www.golfhomeconnect.com/
http://www.privatecommunities.com/

[doc03]

27. I see places in Florida and the Atlanta area on the first. On the second there are none in

Ohio or most other fly over states. I visited the Villages in Florida a couple years ago all I saw was a bunch of
rich snobs. You drive through this little town where the dirt poor workers live called Wildwood. You enter the gate for the
Villages and see the residents sitting in their lanais sipping on a cocktail watching the immigrant workers tend to the landscaping.
I don't want to live behind bars myself.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

36. Though I would not want to live in the Villages, my sister--a retired teacher--

has a condo there that she lives in during winter. She is hardly rich. As a matter of fact she still long-term subs during the fall and spring at 67 to help make ends meet.

[doc03]

37. My old high school Geometry teacher lives there, he is a die hard Republican. Just

like the fly over country everyone is not a Republican there are still Democrats that voted Democrat
up until recently. I would say the biggest reason is NAFTA, coal and some of it is they treat us like rubes.

[RhodeIslandOne]

86. Sounds like Mar-A-Lago

You know, owned by the guy all your neighbors voted for because "Democrats abandoned them"? How's that working out for them so far?

[snooper2]

50. Actually, the coasts are superior places to live, but I would spread that to include the border-

Any state on the East or West coast, and any state that borders Mexico or Canada are the best places to live. The closer you get to the center of the country the crapper everything gets-

Roads, jobs, schools, taxes, everything.

There is a reason you don't see people moving TO St. Louis LOL.


Now, Florida may be one exception to this rule but it will be under water in 100 years.

[sarisataka]

57. I have spent time on the coasts

And you couldn't pay me to live there.

I am quite happy in the central US. Our roads do suck but that happens with 6 months of winter. I find everything else equal or superior to coastal states

[madinmaryland]

18. I grew up in "flyover country" and that's what it is.

I've seen people that have no concept of the world outside of their own small world. Many think an exciting weekend is a weekend in the Oregon district in Dayton or a trip to Yellow Springs (no scratch that, Yellow Springs is a small liberal and eclectic community that most of them don't get). There are a shit load of people here are who really uninformed or out of touch. There are another shitload of people who have drunk the kool-aid and believe everything fox news and all the other right wing nut jobs.

ETA: I worked with a guy hear who thought only property owners should be allowed to vote. Now that's a real "dog whistle". Yeah, there is some really crazy shit going on out here.

[doc03]

24. Well there are a shit load of people in cities that never saw a

live cow. Maybe they have no interest in traveling to a city with horrendous traffic jams and a half dozen murders
reported on the morning news. I love traveling myself but some people don't and don't have the time or money for it either.
That is exactly why Democrats have lost control of 34 states and Washington. The Democrats on the coasts think they have all the answers and think people in the rest the country are stupid.

[madinmaryland]

31. LOL!! I've seen cows both in Ohio and Connecticut...

I tipped a cow in Connecticut, not Ohio (well tried too!!). The point I was making is that people on the coasts have far more exposure to different cultures than we do in small communities in Ohio. We don't think they are stupid, but they have not the experience and exposure to other cultures. They see the world from a limited point of view.

[doc03]

33. The way I hear the media talk everyone in fly over country

suddenly became Republicans. Look at states like Ohio and PA he only won by a couple percentage points. It is not like everyone
is the same here. I live in a rural area of Ohio, there are still Democrats here. Many lifelong Democrats that voted for Republicans will tell you they didn't stop being Democrats they deserted us.

[HughBeaumont]

55. Ohio wasn't won by a "couple of percentage points".

We're now almost as deep red as TEXAS is.

Hillary only won EIGHT counties.

[The Genealogist]

54. I went to college with a guy who held that view about restricting voting rights to property owners

He was a bizarre guy. He was from a very rich family and he saw himself as some kind of modern day version of a medieval nobleman. He blurted out that crap about restricting voting rights. He was stunned to silence when I retorted that such a law would mean neither I nor my father would be allowed to vote (my stepmother was the owner of our home, she owned it before she married my father.) I still believe to this day that this guy was so out of touch with "the little people" that he had no idea that there were adult men who owned no property.

[BigDemVoter]

20. I was raised in "flyover country."

It's called that for a REASON (sorry to any liberals down there). . . . I refuse to fly to my home state, as I don't want to spend a penny flying into the airport there, as 70% of the good citizens are Pussy Grabber's supporters. Nowadays, I just fly over those states and pity anybody living there against his/her will.

[doc03]

28. Thinking that way equals Democrats losing elections. nt

[BigDemVoter]

43. Spending money in red states?

Sorry, but I don't see any correlation. My home state will NEVER vote blue, EVER.

[left-of-center2012]

26. Shirley you're joking?

There's so much more to be offended by in Trump's Amerika.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

29. Mike Pence and his ilk are grown up CHILDREN OF THE CORN n/m

[Iggo]

39. No.

[Tobin S.]

40. I'm originally from Ohio and I currently live in Indiana,

I've been a truck driver for 20 years. Now days I have a dedicated run that I do out to Pittsburgh, PA and back, but I've been everywhere and to every major city in the nation multiple times for the most part. I've also been to most of the lower half of Canada. I've never been to Alaska or Hawaii, but those are the only two states I haven't been to. Pittsburgh is a great town, btw. There are several large cities in flyover country that have a lot of good things going on in them. Cleveland is a happening town, and I once considered moving there. I love the diversity there. Chicago? Last I heard it was the third largest city in the nation and it's right in the middle of the country. Atlanta? Michael Che from Saturday Night Live once said that Atlanta was a much more racially tolerant city than Boston and it's right in the middle of south. Denver? The first major city in the nation to have legal recreational weed. Houston? Actually a progressive town and more open to diversity and accepting refugees than any major city in the country. Some people think that current day Houston is kind of what America will look like toward the middle of this century as our population is concerned and as our national demographics continue to shift. Lots of good stuff happening in the middle of the country in major cities. Wherever there is even a little bit of diversity going on and some kind of sense of community there is good stuff happening in the middle of the country. My little town here in Indiana of 35,000 people has had Democratic leadership for the past 12 years. Liberal politics can happen anywhere in the nation.

Then we have rural, almost exclusively white America. Although those areas have long held onto social conservatism for the most part, there is some history there of left wing politics and economic liberalism. Democrats aren't going to win most of these people over any time soon, but there are liberals among them and they can be some of the most dedicated Dems you will ever run across. Even though they are in the middle of a sea of red, they still get out there and campaign and help the Democratic party maintain a presence there. You will not find people who are more dedicated to the party than they are.

I love all those world class cities on the east and west coasts, too. The traffic is truly horrendous there, especially for truck drivers, but there are all those beautiful, diverse liberal people living there. So much going on and so much to see. There was a time in my life when I saw the Atlantic Ocean for the first time and was just in awe of it. I wanted to move somewhere on the east coast badly for a while after seeing that, but I never did. San Francisco is the most beautiful city I have ever seen, especially at night. I used to run out to Seattle on a dedicated run and did that for a long time. I fell in love with that city.

My point here is, that there are many wonderful things going on in America all across the country. We are all equally important to the function of the nation. We all have something to contribute. It takes all of us to make this country happen. I know it doesn't seem possible for many people right now, but we really need to see the humanity in each other and make one another feel like we are a valued part of this country. I'm not asking anyone to do that for those who are intent on destroying us, but that point of view does not represent the vast majority of Americans even right now when things look so bleak.

[LonePirate]

41. One item: there are numerous rural areas which are predominantly black or Hispanic.

While I would agree that most of rural America is white, it is certainly not almost exclusively white.

[Tobin S.]

42. I was thinking Midwest and Great Plains when I said that because that's where I'm from.

But, yeah, you get down in the southeast, and Texas, and the southwest, and rural California, and there are a lot of rural minorities.

[hatrack]

49. Heck get out in western Kansas, and it's majority Latino in places like Dodge & Garden City

Central Nebraska - lots of Somalis in places like Kearney and Lexington and North Platte.

Things are changing faster than some might think.

[sarisataka]

62. And the Democratic Party will not benefit

From those changes as long as they continue to write off the "unwinnable" states.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. I'm Not Offended, And Live In Illinois

That said, since i only live about 50 miles from Chicago and O'Hare is a major hub, i think the term is silly as it applies to us around here.

The third biggest metro area is not flyover country, so it's just silly. Nothing about which to take offense.

[Orrex]

45. I prefer the term "worthless void" or "dangerous wilderness"

I will defer to the sensibilities of those who reside in those areas, but I don't think that I've ever heard the term "flyover states" without it equally implying a sort of out-of-touch ivory tower attitude in people from the coasts.

The "flyover states" are invariably matched up with "real America" or "the heartland," so where does that leave the poor snobs closer to the sea?

[NurseJackie]

67. Oh, you!!

[Orrex]

70. LOL

[Justice]

46. Not used by Democrats to dismiss; used by GOP and the right.

Is it used to dismiss people? I thought it was coined by the right as a way to describe how they thought Democrats treated collectively people in the midwest.

What are the origins of this term?

I first remember Laura Ingraham using the term - not to dismiss people but as a rallying cry - saying the Democrats dismiss those that live in flyover states.

Who remembers when they first heard the term and how it was used?

[LonePirate]

47. It was used disparagingly in article by a presumably liberal author yesterday.

Regardless of its origins, the term is now being used as an insult by those on the left.

[hatrack]

48. Nah, not deeply so . . .

Besides, there are plenty of cool places out here, and the fewer tourists from NY and CA, the less crowded it is for me.

[delisen]

51. Flyover country is an insult but heartland

used to describe non-coastal states insults the coastal states.

[The Genealogist]

52. I despise that term

I find it elitist. I first learned of this term while working in Missouri for a New York based organization. The New York people acted like anything west of about Philadelphia were nothing but ignorant rubes. Since that time, most uses of that term "fly over" country I have heard in conversation have come from the mouths of "coastal" people who think they are superior to everyone else. I especially despise it when I hear it out of fellow Liberals.

[moondust]

73. Probably much safer

to fly over than to drive through.

[alphafemale]

87. 50 people live in Kansas and they get two Senators just like New York

This is why we are still ruled by backwoods assholes

[nini]

89. Jesus... are we really this thinned skin these days?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry over this 'controversy'