If Trump resigns...

[SHRED]

...would he then lose his power to pardon and any immunity he might be entitled to as President?

And if so doesn't this make it highly unlikely that he will resign considering he and his family would become more vulnerable to prosecution?

[unblock]

1. if they can somehow convince him to resign, he'll pardon many, many people an hour before.

[SHRED]

4. Pre-pardon?

[unblock]

8. a president can pardon any crime after it has occurred. he doesn't have to wait for an indictment

most pardons happen as a last resort, after all appeals have been exhausted.

but a few have happened earlier.

roy moore, most recently; but also ford's pardon of nixon, and carter's amnesty for draft-dodgers.

[sharp_stick]

11. Arpaio not Moore

They are both incredibly evil and vile scumbags so the mixup is very understandable.

[unblock]

16. thanks, so hard to keep the crooks straight

[hlthe2b]

2. He can't pardon out of office, but if NY AG Schneiderman is successful in piggybacking state

charges along with Federal for nearly the whole crew, then pardons are not going to help regardless. Mueller is quite aware of what is going on and what tools he can employ to get around them.

But, patience is wearing thin, given all the damage being done by T and his wrecking crew.

[Calista241]

10. Depends on what crime Trump can be charged with.

While President, his pardon power is absolute. Any state would have to have a specific law violation to proceed, and that's a pretty high bar.

Even Schneiderman would want a rock solid, guaranteed to win, provable to anyone kind of case before moving forward with a prosecution of a President. You'll note that Nixon was arguably guilty of numerous state crimes, and he was never charged or prosecuted by a state prosecutor.

And that prosecutor would want a serious penalty for any crimes charged. Going through a billion dollar trial to get Trump convicted and sentenced to probation wouldn't be a particularly good use of his or his office's time. And the prosecution of a former President would be a bigger goat rodeo than all the other high profile prosecutions we've had in this last 30 years combined.

[defacto7]

14. It would be worth it.

Set precedents, set a path to amend loopholes that got us to this point... worth the time and effort? Yes.

[hlthe2b]

15. Mueller is coordinating with Schneiderman.. and

while Trump can pardon in office with impunity, there is a very strong case to be made that he CAN NOT pardon himself. Even whether or not his pardon authority is ABSOLUTE has NEVER been litigated, but pardons to protect a President from pending impeachment and thus posing an overt obstruction of justice are undoubtedly NOT. Timing is everything, I suppose.

As to Nixon not being prosecuted, he was the ONLY President to resign under a pending removal from office post impeachment. His lieutenants having been prosecuted, his disgraceful exit was deemed punishment enough. That DOES NOT mean that state charges COULD not have been successfully prosecuted--just that they weren't.

[More_Cowbell]

17. I think that Schneiderman wants all Trump's assets confiscated

He's pursuing money laundering and New York's version of RICO charges; in NY it's called Enterprise Corruption. (Enterprise: Corruption, worst idea ever for an Enterprise TV series). I think he'd be just as happy to make Trump broke as to see him in prison. He's been pursuing Trump and his illegal dealings since before Trump was president.

I won't be surprised if Trump is given the chance to resign, and does so, on the federal charges.

[Calista241]

21. Convicting Trump of financial crimes is going to be extraordinarily difficult

For the last 50 years, Trump and the Trump organization have had every decision reviewed by business executives, accountants, and several layers of legal counsel. As a result, Trump has built in deniability for every decision made either with his own money, or with the Trump Organization's assets.

And Trump has been audited by the IRS over 30 times in that period. We cannot expect the special counsel to just up and uncover actionable evidence of a crime in a few months, which professional IRS auditors have repeatedly failed to uncover.

Any trial is going to have more than a few challenges as well. Trump would surely request a jury trial, and his chances of getting several of his Trump minions on the jury is nearly 100%. That alone would sabotage any trial by any prosecutor.

[hlthe2b]

22. the reason why Mueller has the elite team of IRS accountant-investigators on his staff

along with his own forensic accountants and Schneiderman's as a comprehensive team is that they are each looking at different aspects of the financial dealings. There is a lot of overlap, yes, but each is looking at it from their own vantage point. What might not be of significance initially from IRS auditors may well be when state corruption or RICO laws come into play.

I think there is an intense bias toward these kind of investigations toward the wealthy and that is why they get by with so much--it just isn't deemed worth it. But, these kind of investigations do not have the combined power of Mueller's and Schneiderman's teams plus IRS and other Feds. His lawyers may be "competent" when no one is looking too intensely or too motivated to act on what they see, but I'd not place bets any of them are truly all that competent IF a motivated prosecution were to take place.

[Calista241]

23. I hope you are right

But even regular investigations take years to uncover. And with Trump and the Trump organization actively resisting, it will take even longer.

Mueller can't just move his office into the Trump organization, like the IRS can. In order for Mueller to get a document, he has to subpoena it.

[hlthe2b]

24. IRS can demand it.

Yes, the time factor worries me, but I'd bet everything is on hyperdrive (relatively speaking)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. That would be true.

He'd be counting on Pence to pardon him, as Ford did for Nixon. Of course, Pence's power to pardon extends only to federal crimes, and the AG of New York State is investigating financial crimes related to the Trump organization - so, whether or not he resigns, there's no way he can be off the hook for NY crimes.

[Calista241]

20. Every decision Trump or the Trump organization has made for the last 50 years

has been reviewed and vetted by numerous business executives, accountants, and legal counsel. Trump has numerous layers of built in deniability for any uncovered wrongdoing. That's why convicting business executives of white collar crimes is so hard.

The IRS has audited Trump and /or the Trump organization over 30 times in the last 50 years. The likelihood of the special counsel uncovering an actionable fraud or conspiracy in a few months, that IRS auditors failed to uncover multiple times in their audits is pretty slim.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. He must lose that power when he resigns, ala Nixon/Ford Watergate.

So in a way the longer Mueller takes the longer we risk total annihilation.

I have given up on saving America, completely. The SC alone makes this a place I would NEVER purposely live in but I will be forced to live here, I guess.

Not sure what I will do when they start to arrest gay people for some made up reason having to do with god or whatever.

I guess the only thing that could change my mind about giving up would be for every progressive to say right now they promise to vote for ANY democrat in November.

[SHRED]

7. I hear ya

Loud and clear.

[Girard442]

6. Trump won't resign unless there's some sort of extraordinary persuasion happening.

[Iliyah]

9. First of all folks, he will only resign when he is safely in Russia

along with Ivanka/Jared, Junior and Eric plus Barron and grandchildren.

[Moostache]

12. He has already tipped his hand here...

He would pardon EVERYONE in his inner circle and get Pence to pardon him before surrendering the office...guaranteed.

[FakeNoose]

18. There are things he can't pardon

... as stated in this and other DU threads.

If Cheeto knows he's about to be impeached, he'll definitely resign to fend off impeachment, just like Nixon did in 1974. However the deal that Nixon worked out with Ford (immediately grant a pardon to Nixon as Ford's first official act after being sworn in) that might not be possible now. They worked a one-two switch and Nixon got out of town so fucking fast. But Trump may not be able to do the same thing, especially of Congress is onto him, they can disallow any "deals" Trump may have with Pence beforehand. Probably it's all going to the Supreme Court, and we can guess what they'll rule. Nixon's "pardon" should have been challenged and taken to the SC but Congress let him go.

Any Trump indictments under NY law or other states cannot be pardoned by the President. Those go forward even after his resignation from the presidency. Like somebody else said, Cheeto will make sure he and his family are already safely tucked away in Russia before that happens.

[mercuryblues]

13. He won't resign

his ego won't let him

[defacto7]

19. He may...

If he felt that his ego would be better served elsewhere or if his ego was based on blaming an enemy. Imagin, he says he was forsed to resign because the Clintons and Obama planned a takeover... then his base of stupid rises up to fight for... whatever...
He'll destroy whatever he can on the way out.. that's why I think we need a full conviction against all involved including him. Not very likely.