CYPRUS! Trump is doomed!

[berni_mccoy]

12 Investment companies from Cyprus are listed in the indictment (here: https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download)

Why is this damning for Trump?

1. Conspiracy: Trump cannot pardon these people if he is a co-conspirator. And conspiracy is heavily used throughout the indictment.

2. Cyprus: Let's take a closer look at Trump's ties with investment companies in Cyrpus, shall we?

(keep in mind the SoHo companies listed in the indictment)

- Felix Sater, a major player in the Bayrock group that developed the Trump SoHo Hotel in New York and a twice-convicted felon who spent a year in prison for stabbing a man. Sater later scouted for Trump investments in Russia.

- Alexander Mashkevich, a Kazakh mining billionaire,was another source of funds for Bayrock financing and the SoHo project, and was accused by Belgian authorities in 2011 in a $55 million money-laundering scheme.

- Anatoly Golubchik, Vadim Trincher and Michael Sall are three owners of Trump condos in Florida and Manhattan who were accused in federal indictments of belonging to a Russian-American organized crime group and working for a major international crime boss based in Russia.

- Viktor Khrapunov, a former Kazakhstan energy minister and mayor of Almaty, owns three units in the Trump SoHo through shell companies and was accused in a federal lawsuit filed in Los Angeles in 2014 of hiding millions of dollars looted from his city, some of which was spent on three Trump SoHo units.

- Peter Kiritchenko, a Ukrainian owner of two Trump condos in Florida, who was indicted in a money-laundering scheme involving a former prime minister of Ukraine.

From: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/trump-financial-ties-russia-money-laundering-banks-oligarchs-manafort/

Why is SoHo important? Because it represents Trump Properties in the SoHo Neighborhood of Manhattan. Manafort's company laundered money through MC Soho Holdings into Trump Properties. See the below link in conjunction with the indictment:

http://www.refinblog.com/tag/mc-soho-holdings-llc/

[kentuck]

1. That also ties Wilbur (the Rat) Ross to Manafort and Trump

and money laundering.

[VermontKevin]

3. Beat me to it.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

74. Me, too...

... but I have been mentioning it here and there. Building the case against Ross. Can a sitting Sec of Commerce be arrested and perp walked out of his DC office?

[malaise]

18. Expect a Ross resignation

looks like the wall of deception is crumbling

[ffr]

23. Get thee to the greatest thread.

Cyprus: Wilbur Ross. Money laundering. Mobsters. Russia.

The dots are getting connected!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. SecComm Wilbur Ross owns Bank of Cyprus laundry w connex to Putin oligarchs. Deutsche Bank CEO.

[Scarsdale]

70. I think "someone" is flying under the radar.

Melania tRump's parents live part time in tRump Tower, part time at Mar-A-Lago. He was a high ranking official in the Communist Party in their home country. How did they get visas? Was Putin involved in this family getting "in" with tRump? Hopefully, their phones at the Tower were bugged. Some things do not add up. How could they afford this lavish lifestyle?

[L. Coyote]

32. The BIG Picture:

[GreenEyedLefty]

40. I am very surprised at the low number of views on these videos. They are LOADED with great info. nt

[L. Coyote]

41. Just released.

[lagomorph777]

77. Ross may be the next indictment.

[PJMcK]

2. Could Trump be an un-indicted co-conspirator

Could the charges against Trump still be sealed while Robert Mueller continues to build his cases? If so, what would be the consequences?

[VermontKevin]

4. Yes. He very probably is.

[L. Coyote]

33. Trump could be an indicted co-conspirator, and unable to pardon his co-conspirators

due to obstruction of justice barring pardons. Trump may be indicted for obstruction already. Cooperating co-conspirator goes back to July!!!

[Fiendish Thingy]

62. I don't think the Constitution bars him from pardoning co-conspirators

It's pretty clear his pardon power is absolute. If he did, however, he'd be cutting his own throat, and possibly the nation's if it didn't trigger immediate impeachment.

[L. Coyote]

63. If a pardon constitutes obstruction of justice on his own behalf, I think he's screwed.

[Fiendish Thingy]

65. Screwed, yes, but not prohibited from taking action to screw himself. Nt

[marylandblue]

5. Cyprus is also the Russians favorite off shore banking location

[ffr]

24. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding

We have another winner!

[dhol82]

6. Any chance Wilbur Ross will get caught up in this?

He was Bank of Cyprus.

[calimary]

39. From your post to God's eyes (AND Mueller's!)

[TlalocW]

7. I saw the co-conspirator/not able to pardon thing on another thread

But was confused. Doesn't Trump have to be listed as a co-conspirator? Or is the thing is if Trump tries to pardon, Mueller then hits him with papers listing him as one and says, "Nope. You can't do that."

TlalocW

[Fred Sanders]

15. "Unindicted coconspirators" means indictments on others is pending or already done, under seal.

Last edited Tue Oct 31, 2017, 12:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Trump?
Soho Hotels were gifted to Trumps kids, I think, or assumed control...
after the money laundering?

[TlalocW]

16. So it's not so much we know right now that Trump can't pardon or try to pardon

But the possibility of him or one of his kids being in one of the other indictments will keep him at bay?

TlalocW

[berni_mccoy]

20. Trump would essentially be admitting to violating the Logan Act as well as Treason

if he pardoned his co-conspirators. It would be an implication of his own guilt. And you can't pardon for treason.

[TlalocW]

30. But again, that's only if he's actually a co-conspirator in one of the unfiled indictments

What I think I'm getting at is that Trump is stupid enough to believe he's safe so he could try to pardon - and then be smacked down by an indictment.

TlalocW

[berni_mccoy]

34. Yes, though it is debatable whether or not he could be indicted...

It would be on Congress to impeach him.

[Eyeball_Kid]

67. NYAG Schneiderman also has cases against Trumpy and his band of thieves.

And those defendants will not be eligible for a Trumpian pardon under any circumstances. And neither can Trumpy be excused from criminal prosecution.

[C_U_L8R]

76. It may all come down to

New York State tax evasion

[whopis01]

49. Why do you said that "you can't pardon for treason"?

Not only is it not true, but it has been done on multiple occasions.

George Washington, John Adams, and Gerald Ford all pardoned people convicted of treason.

[cstanleytech]

64. Here is a question.

If it can be shown that the pardons were being done to impede a potential impeachment case from even forming by buying the silence of the potential witnesses by granting them pardons so that no investigator could roll them into turning and providing evidence would that void the pardons?

[whopis01]

79. I don't know

From a logical point of view, it makes perfect sense. I don't know if there is any legal tool for making it happen though.

From what I understand, once someone has been pardoned, they can no longer plead the fifth (as it related to the offense for which they were pardoned). They can't incriminate themselves if they have already been pardoned. So, the buying their silence approach should only work so far.

[cstanleytech]

80. What would happen if it can be shown they were promised the pardon in advance as part of

a payment for the commission of a crime?

[whopis01]

81. I would think that in itself would be a crime

Potentially on both the part of the pardoner and pardonee.

So even if the original pardon stands, I would think that giving a pardon in exchange for something would be a form of bribery and/or coercion. And likewise accepting a pardon in return for doing something would be some form of conspiracy and/or corruption.

[Bradical79]

37. It's not accurate

He only couldn't pardon co-conspirators if it's related to impeachment procedings. Otherwise, he has absolute power when it comes to pardoning of federal crimes.

Now, he can't pardon them if he wants to maintain any kind of illusion of innocence, and it could maybe lead to other charges against himself. Plus they could be compelled to testify on the matter since they no longer can incriminate themselves.

[SergeStorms]

61. It was my understanding....

that the Trump name was only licensed to 'Trump' SoHo. I'm not sure he had anything to do with building it, or has any stake in it now. Believe me, no one wants to see the Orange Shit-Stain sent to prison more than myself, but I don't know if everyone should be getting all squishy about this. If it's just a licensing agreement I don't think he can be tied to any wrongdoing by it's actual owners.

Am I incorrect about this? It would be nice to hear from someone who has legal experience in this area? Anyone?

[Princess Turandot]

72. Trump never actually owned Trump SoHo so he couldn't have gifted it to his offspring..

It was his far more common arrangement of the leasing of his fabulous 'name'.

As it says up-thread, the Sapir Organization and Bayrock Group real estate developers built the joint. They paid fees to Trump on the condo sales and used the Trump Organization to run the hotel services operation. Then a few years ago, they defaulted on a loan from another real estate developer called CIM Group. (The default was caused by the abysmal sales of the investment condo-hotel units.)

The property wound up in foreclosure, and CIM then purchased it in a bankruptcy auction. They still own it. The Trump Organization still manages it for them.

[onenote]

8. Of course Trump can pardon co-conspirators

However, the consequences of his doing so could be problematic since those co-conspirators could no longer refuse to answer questions under the Fifth Amendment and the optics of doing so would be bad.

But, of course, at this point, there is nothing in the record to suggest that Trump is a "co-conspirator" in any of the crimes alleged thus far.

[mercuryblues]

9. I just posted this op

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029769041

Page 14.
9/2/10 Yiakora Ventures Unlimited through Cyprus: 10,000
9/6/10 Global Highway Limited through Cyprus: 10,000
10/18/2010 Laviathan Advisors limited through Cyprus: 10,000
2/8/2011 Global highway limited through Cyprus: 13,500
2/9/12 Global Highway Limited through Cyprus: 2,500

This is the same time period that Uday owned and operated Titan Atlas Manufacturing in Charleston. The were forced into bankruptcy for not paying the loan; sales and withholding taxes. Daddy trump bought the defaulted loan from Deustch bank for pennies on the dollar. He is now trying to get the state taxpayers to clean up the toxic waste on the site. There is a law that says if you buy property that has toxic waste the state will pay for cleanup. The exception to that law is that if you sell it to another company that you have interest in, you are on your own. trump is trying to get the state to ignore that and get taxpayers to clean up his toxic waste site.

[malaise]

10. Louise may be correct

They may all be going down

[L. Coyote]

36. Ding, ding, ding, ......

Link to tweet

[ffr]

60. Shock and awe

Overwhelm them with so much legal indictments that it creates a dizzying state of chaos within the tRump crime family. Through chaos will come loose lips and more incrimination.

[WinkyDink]

71. Watch the Talking Propaganda Heads on FOX spin like those vaudeville plates on poles!

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

11. A little more digging turns up this

This is the first I have come across this site www.377Union.com . They have a site named after one of the properties listed in the Manafort indictment. These guys have been on this story for a while. They've done their homework.

http://www.377union.com/cyprus-records

[Fred Sanders]

17. Wow. A web of money laundering through shell companies and eventually into the pockets

of themselves, Ukraine and Putin when they where buddies.

And looks like some went through SoHo properties...

[superpatriotman]

12. The Panama Papers

deserve a re visit and closer read

[malaise]

19. I read that one of the journalists associated the the Panama papers was murdered in Malta

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/murdered-panama-papers-journalist-son-malta-crooks-daphne-caruana-galizia

<snip>
The son of the murdered Maltese investigative journalist and blogger Daphne Caruana Galizia has described finding parts of his mother’s body around the blazing car in which she died and attacked the island as a “mafia state” run by “crooks”.

“My mother was assassinated because she stood between the rule of law and those who sought to violate it, like many strong journalists,” Matthew Caruana Galizia, who is also an investigative reporter, wrote in a moving and at times graphic Facebook post.

“But she was also targeted because she was the only person doing so. This is what happens when the institutions of the state are incapacitated: the last person left standing is often a journalist. Which makes her the first person left dead.”

Dutch forensic experts and a team from the FBI were due to arrive in Malta to help police in the EU’s smallest state investigate the killing of Caruana Galizia, who led the Panama Papers investigation into corruption on the island.

[superpatriotman]

22. "This is what happens when the institutions of the state are incapacitated"

INFILTRATED, not incapacitated.

[malaise]

26. +1,000

Happens when the economic mercenaries pretend to be spreading 'democratic values'.

[superpatriotman]

29. As soon as they're done with "tax reform"

they'll get right on the Russia hacking our democracy thing.

[Honeycombe8]

27. I'm sure there's a rumor somewhere in freeperville that HRC did it. nt

[malaise]

28. Ha

Getting up off the floor

[L. Coyote]

44. Corruption: "last person left standing is often a journalist. ...the first person left dead.

Says it all. I guess Fox news can sleep at night!

[highplainsdem]

13. Don't forget Wilbur Ross. Link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/wilbur-ross-russian-deal-bank-of-cyprus-donald-trump-commerce-secretary

[berni_mccoy]

14. Agreed. I felt the other connections were more of a revelation with direct connection

to the indictment.

[Honeycombe8]

25. Woo Hoo!!!!

I am being childishly happy because I believe these people ARE guilty. It is a good thing when criminals are caught and charged.

[underpants]

31. That's big shakes

[LittleGirl]

46. Love that gif! eom

[beveeheart]

53. Love this and can't stop laughing,

but the bag might not be big enough.

[berni_mccoy]

56. Lol

[caballojm]

35. I'm trying my hardest to keep a level head.

I know I shouldn't get too giddy thereby setting myself up for the BIG letdown ... but it's just so difficult. I mean conspiracy against the US among other king-size charges!!! My thoughts keep turning to the biggest jumbo-est size bag of popcorn I can find. Please let this be the beginning of the end!!!

[tallahasseedem]

45. I can't...

I haven't been this excited since I was a child.

[LovingA2andMI]

38. Bookmarked.....

This S**t Is Getting Good!!!

[Ilsa]

42. It's like the Mueller team had been

watching TRMS. I think she covered each and every one of these.

[berni_mccoy]

47. Yes, I agree.

When I saw Cyprus I suspect Rachel will be connecting the dots for us tonight far better than I can do.

[vkkv]

43. "It's starting to look a lot like Christmas.."

[TygrBright]

48. Cyprus: The Mos Eisley of the International Banking Community. n/t

[ileus]

50. We may be rid of Trump by Thanksgiving.

[SayItLoud]

51. Fantastic Re Minder!

Well done!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

52. I want to see the POTUS "perp walk". Real bad.

He is the worst. The absolute worst American.

[SummerSnow]

54. This needs to go to the Greatest thread right now

[moonseller66]

55. So, how's this for a theory?

Trump pleas from Mueller with an offer of immediate resignation for total exoneration for himself and family (so he can keep his little empire).
Then throws the others under the bus and heads for somewhere Vlad can't impale him!

[DAMANgoldberg]

68. This quote comes to mind

"Everybody has a price".

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/every+man+has+his+price"

The late great wrestler Ted DiBiase used this line for years. TPTB should be able to afford the Trump family to go away, pay off their debtors, and achieve their goals under a Pence presidency as he is "one of us".

McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms:
every man has his price. (n.d.) McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. (2002). Retrieved October 31 2017 from https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/every+man+has+his+price

[kst]

57. "Trump cannot pardon these people if he is a co-conspirator."

Why not? As long as Trump is President, he can pardon anybody he likes.
The Constitution just says

... he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

It imposes no other limitations.

[berni_mccoy]

59. Yes, that's true. My point was that if he did, he would implicate himself

Should he be an unidicted co-conspirator (and it is looking like that is the case).

[workinclasszero]

58. Wow the plot thickens!

[oasis]

66. Cancel Christmas cockroaches.

They're coming for your sorry asses.

[Ilsa]

78. Oh, the difference a comma makes! LOL

I was wondering, "What is a 'Christmas cockroach?'"

[Linda Ed]

69. I would not want

to be any of these people involved in all this corruption. I can't imagine how they can even sleep at night!
No conscience would be my first guess but just the thought of 30 years in prison has to be scary!

[workinclasszero]

82. And all for a guy that will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat

and deny ever knowing you while you twist slowly in the wind/federal pen for 20 years or so.

Like he is doing to George Papadopoulos right now.

If these people know anything about the Trump/Putin/Russian connection they better fess up to the FBI and bail while they still have their freedom.

[JCMach1]

73. The irony may be Mueller doesn't find 'collusion'

But just the everyday illegal shite that happens in international real estate which Trump has been hiding all along

[UCmeNdc]

75. K&R