Kelly: "The lack of an ability to compromise led to the Civil War."

[highplainsdem]

I've seen another thread about Kelly praising Robert E. Lee. This statement about what he's claiming was the cause of the Civil War immediately followed that praise.

Disgusting.


Tweet about this, with video, from Aaron Rupar of ThinkProgress:

Link to tweet

[renegade000]

1. That's Shelby Foote's line from Ken Burn's Civil War

So I can't really fault Kelly too much for that. Agree that it's a pretty dumb statement from a historical/moral standpoint.

[gabeana]

17. Yup

I also saw Foote say if he had lived during that period since he was a southerner that is the side he would of fought for with gleam in his eye, I liked foote but that always bothered me

[VOX]

35. This may help you a bit: Foote was born in Greenville, Mississippi...

And if he were a young man in 1862, and did not own 20 or more slaves, Foote wouldn't have had any choice but to either "skedaddle" or fight. In April 1862, the Confederacy passed the first conscription law in North American history (so much for states rights): the Conscription Act, which made all able-bodied white men between the ages of 18 and 35 liable for a three-year term of military service. There was much face and family reputation to be lost, so skedaddling wasn't a likely option.

My great-great-grandfather actually lived a similar scenario. He was a poor farmer in Mississippi, and was drafted into service with the 11th Mississippi Infantry (part of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia) in 1862. He survived some major engagements (including Gettysburg, where most of the 11th was killed or gravely wounded). He also survived smallpox after capture and imprisonment. When the war ended, he and his family moved west to Texas and a clean slate. I find his adventures and close calls fascinating, but I always keep in mind that he fought for one of the worst, most evil causes in world history.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. That's how I have

A Confederate officer in my family. And in his 90's early 100's - of ten great grandchildren from one grand daughter and many others . . . My dad - the darkest of the ten - was the Apple of his eye.

He was a poor Irish immigrant with no other choice in Mississippi. He married a Cherokee Indian, and two of their daughters married black men . . .by the 1900 census he was listed as negro.

Crazy family history. You aren't alone.

[VOX]

59. Very interesting! We really are a bunch of mutts...

And that makes for some surprising branches on the family tree.

In addition to my 11th Mississippi Company D “Neshoba Rifles” private GGGF, I have another Civil War-era GGGF who served as a surgeon in the 16th Ohio Volunteers. Although he was a Union man, he nevertheless removed the shattered leg of a wounded Confederate, James Hanger (in what’s believed to be the first amputation of the war; how that was determined, I’ll never know), who went on to found Hanger Prosthetics, which is still in business today.
http://www.mkwe.com/ohio/pages/H007-02.htm
I have the surgeon’s (James D. Robison) journal, mourning coat and vest, and his gold-handled walking cane. It should all be in a museum!

[gabeana]

60. I understand that but the way he said it

with a gleam in his face and a twinkle in his eye

[Mediumsizedhand]

2. Compromise owning another human being would be?

[Girard442]

11. Some people say that if the North had let slavery continue, it would have faded in a few decades.

All the evidence points to this idea as being a total bullshit fantasy.

[Mediumsizedhand]

14. So there really was not a compromise. You allow slaves or you do not. No halfway there.

What might be in the future is not a compromise. It is merely what might happen in the future, or not.

[MichMary]

38. Or--

farm subsidies in exchange for freeing the slaves??

[flyingfysh]

27. The book "The Half Has Never Been Told" refutes that idea

The book is a must-read history which shows that people were making lots of money from slavery. It showed no signs of going away.

[VOX]

31. The American Civil War: "Rich man's war, poor man's fight."

Two points of interest on this subject:
-In spite of their "states rights" posturing, the Confederate States of America enacted the first military conscription in early 1862. The Confederacy also enacted the "Twenty Negro Law," which specifically exempted from military service one white man for every twenty slaves owned on a Confederate or a Confederate plantation, or for two or more plantations within five miles of each other that collectively had twenty or more slaves. In other words, if you were a wealthy plantation owner, you and possibly your sons would NOT have to serve in the military.

-Obviously, slavery was the cheapest of cheap labor at the time. The wealthy planter class, the "One Percenters" of their day, figured that, with Lincoln's election, they were about to lose their "property" (slaves), and thus secession was inevitable. But they saddled poor whites (most of whom did NOT own slaves) with the prospect of death or being maimed on the battlefield. This created a morale issue among Confederate soldiers, and contributed to the old adage, "a rich man's war, but a poor man's fight."

[WinkyDink]

34. "A few decades" is one minute, one second, too long. "Some people" aren't fit to breathe.

[raging moderate]

41. Some abolitionists had suggested paying some small compensation.

Since many slave ships had actually docked in northern ports, staffed and owned by northerners, and slavery had existed in the north as well, some people in the north suggested that the south should not be made to bear the full economic loss of the bogus "property" involved in slavery. These people suggested that perhaps some sort of compensation could be paid to slave "owners," or to the south in general. The slavers rejected this idea.

[highplainsdem]

3. Response from Martin Luther King's daughter Bernice:

Link to tweet

It’s irresponsible & dangerous, especially when white supremacists feel emboldened, to make fighting to maintain slavery sound courageous.

[highplainsdem]

4. Ted Lieu's response: The USA exists because President Lincoln did not compromise.

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

50. Perfect.

[Jim Lane]

58. Actually, even Lincoln was willing to compromise to some extent

The Republican platform of 1860 called for maintaining and protecting slavery in the states where it already existed, while banning it in the territories that were not yet states. There were some people in the South who were willing to accept that compromise, and there were some in the North who were willing to allow limited expansion of slavery into the territories.

To say that the war was a failure of statecraft, however, you'd have to delineate a compromise that, in the conditions of 1860, could have received enough support from both sides to avert the war. Even then, it might only have postponed it for a few years.

[highplainsdem]

5. Olbermann's response: John Kelly: Formerly: General. Currently: Whore

Link to tweet

[JI7]

6. yup

[oasis]

20. Wow!

[MLAA]

28. +1

[dalton99a]

43. Yep.

[LovingA2andMI]

7. FUCK RACIST ASS JOHN KELLY!!!

Yea, we said it!

[Sneederbunk]

8. Grave errors led to the Civil War. The North did not believe

the South would secede and the South did not believe the North would fight.

[raging moderate]

9. Yes, in President Buchanan and his slaver cronies.

The Civil War was ALREADY ordained when Lincoln took office. Pro-slavery forces tried repeatedly to assassinate him during his journey to Washington DC, BEFORE he was sworn in as President. They had rejected all efforts to reach a compromise. They had repeatedly vandalized, burned houses, murdered abolitionists, and suppressed dissent as much as possible.

[Hekate]

10. My gods

[SunSeeker]

12. Kelly is a fucking racist, ignorant asshole.

Guess that's why he thought it was a good idea to work for Trump.

[njhoneybadger]

13. Ok, Kelly is a fucking asshole

[brush]

15. This racist liar has no credibility.

[Corgigal]

16. Shouldn't he be at the White House right now

And babysit his man/child from blowing up the world?

[Nevernose]

18. 4/5ths of a person

Brilliant fucking compromise, General!

[unblock]

21. it was 3/5th and ironically the south wanted it higher and the north wanted it lower.

given that slaves couldn't vote, counting them at all in apportionment simply meant more representation in congress for the *white* people of slave states. the slaves of course had no representation in congress either way.

counting them as full people would have given the south a lock on the house, and not counting them at all would have given the north a lock on the house.

3/5ths was one of many compromises that maintained the balance and deferred the day of reckoning for decades.

[highplainsdem]

22. I think Nevernose meant that 4/5 would have been Kelly's idea of a compromise.

What Kelly was saying was just insane. An apology for racism -- nothing more.

[highplainsdem]

19. LBN thread about the CNBC article on this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141901074

Christina Wilkie, who wrote that CNBC article, was the first one I noticed tweeting about Kelly's racist statement.

[JI7]

23. racist dumbfuck

[unblock]

24. yeah, and mostly it was the south that refused to compromise. over slavery.

they resented the free states passing laws making it hard for slavers to get fugitive slaves returned.

note that they were against "states' rights" in this case, as they wanted the federal government to supersede the northern states' anti-slavery laws.

they also didn't like that lincoln campaigned on restricting slavery in the territories. lincoln was duly elected, but they couldn't accept even waiting to see what he'd actually do.

note that a constitutional amendment banning slavery would not have passed 3/4th of the states with the slave states participating in the union. they could have maintained slavery for a lot longer had they remained with any reasonable compromise or even just sucking up that they lost an damn election.

but they didn't want merely to maintain slavery, they wanted more, they wanted expansion into the territories, and they wanted control over the how the free states handled fugitives.

[highplainsdem]

25. Chelsea Clinton:There is no "compromise" regarding slavery, ever, & the original 3/5ths compromise

was an abomination.

Link to tweet

[MLAA]

29. Chelsea is right on...what an articulate, compassionate person.

[JI7]

26. i think Kelly is really stupid . i bet if he was black he would have never made it up where he was

since any fault would have been picked out to prevent him from getting where he was.

i can look at colin powell and we know he whored for bush but we know he isn't stupid.

in kelly's case i really think he is an idiot. k

of course he is a bigot also which makes him a trump supporter.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

30. That's true only in the sense that there was no more compromising to be done

"Compromise" had been the watchword from the drafting of the Constitution (3/5), through the Kansas/Nebraska act all the way to the election of 1860. Even then, the end-game was not the end of slavery, but stopping the spread of slavery to the West and maintaining the Union. It was not until after Antietam that Lincoln emancipated the slaves -- that is those slaves in Confederate territory. Slaves in Maryland, Missouri, and Kentucky were still legally held. Lee fought for the side that wanted to maintain agrarian feudalism in the South, and left to their own devices, would have maintained the South as an apartheid state.

My views on Confederate honor are reflected in this excerpt from correspondence from W.T. Sherman to J.B. Hood. This is part of an ongoing discussion of evacuating civilians from Atlanta, which Sherman proposed to burn to the ground:

In the name of common sense, I ask you not to appeal to a just God in such a sacrilegious manner --you, who, in the midst of peace and prosperity, have plunged a nation into civil war, "dark and cruel war," who dared and badgered us to battle, insulted our flag, seized our arsenals and forts that were left in the honorable custody of a peaceful ordnance sergeant, seized and made prisoners of war the very garrisons sent to protect your people against negroes and Indians, long before any overt act was committed by the (to you) hateful Lincoln Government, tried to force Kentucky and Missouri into the rebellion in spite of themselves, falsified the vote of Louisiana, turned loose your privateers to plunder unarmed ships, expelled Union families by the thousand burned their houses, and declared by ac of your Congress the confiscation of all debts due Northern men for goods had and received. Talk thus to the marines but not to me, who have seen these things, and who will this day make as much sacrifice for the peace and honor of the South, as the best born Southerner among you. If we must be enemies, let us be men, and fight it out as we propose to-day, and not deal in such hypocritical appeals to God and humanity.

[Scruffy1]

32. I can't believe thas rational human being accdepts this BS today.

It screwed the South and led to nowhere. It's hard for me to believe stupid bastards like this are running the country.I only wish that he was close at hand.

[WinkyDink]

33. John Kelly is an arrogant (fill in the blank).

[arthritisR_US]

49. A racist piece of shit who dishonoured the uniform and the fallen.

[Kablooie]

36. Oh come on, hes right.

If the North had just compromised and allowed the south to retain slavery there would have been no civil war.

[thucythucy]

54. The north DID compromise--

Lincoln said repeatedly, before and after his first inauguration, that he had no intention of abolishing slavery where it already existed.

This wasn't good enough for southern slave owners, who wanted to EXTEND slavery into the western territories, annex more of Mexico, seize Cuba, and establish a slave empire in central and south America, as well as in the US. They also refused to recognize northern state laws prohibiting slavery--the Dred Scott decision--decided by a majority southern Supreme Court--said that southern slave owners could keep their slaves even when they travelled through the north. BTW, many southern states refused to allow Abraham Lincoln's name even to appear on their ballots.

It was only after a year and a half of bloody rebellion, showing the south had no intention EVER to compromise on anything to do with slavery and white supremacy, that Lincoln issued his preliminary emancipation proclamation in September 1862. Even this was a half measure--it said the south could keep all its slaves if only they'd stop the rebellion by January 1, 1863. Not a single southern state accepted the offer. Even that was a compromise--slavery continued to exist in non-rebelling "border" states until passage of the 13th amendment in 1865.

So in fact there was compromise after compromise to placate "the slave power," and it only emboldened the white supremacists to want more. Kind of like what happened in Munich in 1938.

[Kablooie]

57. Actually, I didn't know that.

I remember now something about Lincoln allowing slavery early on but I don't remember the details.
I'll have to read up on it more.
Thanks for the info.

[mnhtnbb]

39. Whenever Republicans whine about others not being willing to compromise

what they really are complaining about is not getting their way.

It's a way to blame someone else for not getting what they want.

Kelly really outed himself as a racist and misogynistic a$$hole with his defense of Trump over the phone call to the widow
of U.S. Army Sergeant La David Johnson and his comments about Representative Frederica Wilson. It's no wonder he had
no problem going to work for Trump.

[spanone]

40. he's a fucking idiot and perfect to be huddled in the white house with trump

Last edited Tue Oct 31, 2017, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

two lame brains

and now it makes sense why kelly is in the white house...

he's a Liar and a Racist. just what trump demands in a chief of staff.

[bdamomma]

42. could General Kelly

be a distraction story from the Mueller indictments. tRump will do anything to get the spotlight off him, and distract people to another distraction, thus having an investigation into this uranium thing and putting HC out there again.

Grasping at straws isn't he????

[highplainsdem]

44. I've seen others suggest on Twitter that Kellly might be trying just to create a distraction, but I

can't believe he'd throw his reputation away and get himself labeled a racist just to help Trump. Sadly, this is apparently what Kelly truly believes.

And it explains a lot, including his vicious, lying attack on Rep. Wilson.

Kelly is a deplorable.

[bdamomma]

45. can't wait to hear

Lawrence O'Donnell synopsis of Mr. Kelly.

[Madam45for2923]

46. Is he THREATENING us! THREATENING OUR COUNTRY? UNF*CKINGPATRIOTIC!

[Johonny]

47. Is there anyone not a dumb ass in that White House?

[coolsandy]

48. Same thing will lead to 45's impeachment.

[struggle4progress]

51. Let's see. We had the Three-Fifths Compromise, which gave the slaveholding states

some credit for their slave populations in apportioning House seats. We had the 1793 Fugitive Slave Act, which required non-slave states to return escaped slaves. We had the first Missouri Compromise, which admitted Maine as a free state and Missouri as a slave state; and the second Missouri Compromise, which agreed to overlook the fact that Missouri banned free blacks in the state. Then, during the 1830s, Congress agreed to ignore abolition petitions. We had the 1850 Compromise, which admitted California as a free state and New Mexico as a slave state, with a new Fugitive Slave Act. We had the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which allowed Kansas and Nebraska to choose their own free- or slave-state status

And then there was the election of Lincoln whose views, as stated around that the time, seem to have been that slaves should be gradually and voluntarily emancipated by their masters (with compensation for their loss!) and then re-colonized in Africa --- a position which provoked such frothy-mouthed outrage, among slave-holders, that South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas all declared their secession before Lincoln was even inaugurated

[Mediumsizedhand]

53. I need to keep this one.

Can't bookmark a post, huh?

[David__77]

52. The failure to crush white supremacy with reconstruction was the error.

The democratic tasks of the civil war and reconstruction haven’t yet been completely fulfilled.

[KitSileya]

55. Best reply to this yet is by CNN commentator Keith Boykin

Link to tweet

[Vinca]

56. WTF is he talking about? A compromise would have been, "Okay, you can have 2 slaves."

It appears General Kelly is as dimwitted as the rest of them.

[anamnua]

61. The sainted Robert E Lee

owned slaves and had three of them whipped and their backs laced with brine for trying to escape.