We should not give a flying fuck about

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

whether or not the primaries were rigged last year.

Hillary won the nomination. Even if she did so because of rigged primaries, that no longer matters. She won the nomination. She's not President today because of the Electoral College and how very good Republicans are at gerrymandering.

We absolutely need to move on from this.

[wasupaloopa]

1. No we should give a flying fuck. It matters that history be written the way it happened and not

let it become what is comfortable for some to live with.

Hillary bashers need to feel uncomfortable. They gave us Trump.

You move on if that's makes you feel better. I won't!

[sprinkleeninow]

2. I yam still highly steamed. The mere thought of what it could have been. Oy!

[Matt_R]

59. Yep, also

Bernie bashers need to feel uncomfortable. They gave us Trump.

It is the division of the party, oh and the October surprise that caused many to sit out the 2016 election.

[delisen]

26. exactly. need to deal with facts-not "alternative facts"

false narratives. and propaganda. The shadowy world of lies and untruths breed fear.

We can deal with with truth.

Freedom from fear was one of FDRs four frreedoms

[Snackshack]

4. Agreed.

No need to continue this. What DB said this week is nothing new.

What’s done is done. We need to focus on what lay ahead (mid terms) and getting Dems back into a majority either in house or senate so there is a check on DT.

[wasupaloopa]

6. I can chew gum and walk too

I can get ready for the mid terms and care about the lies told about Hillary

[Snackshack]

18. I didnt say you couldnt.

Feel free to dwell on the past all you want.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. My point exactly.

Move on.

Elect more Democrats in all offices. Think about electing at least a few younger Democrats in office currently held by those over 70.

Keep in mind that among the reasons Republicans are in power (aside from gerrymandering which while important is not the only reason) is that for a couple of decades they've been grooming and electing newcomers for a couple of decades. Meanwhile, the Democratic leadership looks a lot like the old Soviet Politburo, while the Republican leadership is something like 24 years younger.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. We knew last fall that the primaries had been rigged.

It was actually obvious from the beginning that the Democratic establishment would have nothing to do with Bernie, and the mainstream media ignored him.

I was a huge Bernie supporter. I still am. And when Hillary, to my bitter disappointment, got the nomination, I voted for her. As did nearly everyone else with a D after their name.

It is long since time to move on. I notice that the most vociferous dead-enders are those who claim to be loyal Hillary supporters. They're the ones who can't move on, who can't get over her defeat, who cling to a pile of "what-ifs".

You are the ones who need to move on. The rest of us long since have. You don't need some sort of formal apology or acknowledgement. You got as much as you'll ever get, mainly in the form of the vote. Get over it. Move on. Support other Democrats in all offices. Understand that Hillary Clinton is not going to run for office ever again, and that's not a tragedy. It's the way of the world. Start looking around at newer Democrats you can support. And for Chrissakes, please stop only thinking about the dinosaurs of the past, but look into the future, look at younger candidates who can be the future of the party.

[wasupaloopa]

7. No don't tell me what to think or how to

deal with the primaries.

You live your life and I will make sure you don't get to rewrite history like you did in your first line

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. Trust me, I'm not telling you what to think.

I'm simply telling you what actually is.

Recently I met a woman who confessed to being a young earther. Lucky for her I'd had a bit too much to drink, so I was feeling to mellow to argue with her, but the essential thing to point out to young earthers is that we have verified human civilizations older than the 6,000 years they ascribe to the entire age of the earth. Damn, what a shame I didn't confront her.

More to the point, I'm not rewriting history. I'm simply pointing out what is. AND, I'm saying we need to move on. We need to get on with the task of electing more Democrats, and need to look closely at the possibility of electing younger Democrats, and not simply re-electing those currently in their 70's and 80's.

Among the reasons Republicans are in power is that they've been systematically recruiting younger candidates, while our party is stuck on re-electing dinosaurs.

[delisen]

28. Actually you are stating your opinion, nothing more.

[Scruffy1]

12. I agree.

The question I ask conspiracy theorists all the time is even if you are right: Would it make any difference?" We need to keep our eye on the prize.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. Exactly.

I am utterly convinced that the primaries were rigged to make sure Clinton would win.

But that doesn't matter any more. She won the nomination, she lost the election. And yeah, there was the Russian thing and more importantly there's the Electoral College.

What I want to see here on DU is a better focus on the future.

I've restrained from commenting in the many threads on this topic until I started this one, because I'm so sick of this bullshit. Maybe I shouldn't have started this. Maybe I should delete it.

But I've been here since almost the beginning, under two other screen names, so I know the history of this site better than most. Invariably people here fight the last primary and election. Invariably they promote someone who lost the last time around. Someone recently touted General Wesley Clark for 2020. For pete's sake. Let's look to the future, not to the past.

[Squinch]

37. Here you are TWICE doing what you are telling others not to do.

[lunamagica]

49. Then why did Sanders said "Hillary Clinton won fair and square" Was he lying?

[Garrett78]

27. 2 articles from last year:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/is-the-democratic-primary-really-rigged/483168/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

[betsuni]

31. "the most vociferous dead-enders are those who claim to be loyal Hillary supporters"

LOL RIGGED.

[Kentonio]

35. So very true

[Squinch]

36. So here you are once doing what you are telling others not to do.

[treestar]

47. Then how come Bernie was at the debates?

There is no proof of any "rigging." None at all. It's just the sour grapes of a losing candidate's supporters.

[leftofcool]

51. This Hillary Democrat will decide for herself what she clings to and what she does not

I've been doing it for 68 years now. I will move on when I am damn good and ready and that will be when the DNC apologizes to Hillary, when Bernie apologizes to Hillary along with Warren and Brazile and when several thousand protest voters apologize to Hillary.

[lovemydogs]

57. Can I second your post? Same here

I was a big Bernie supporter and moved on. Supported Hillary in the general.
A year after the election I find the Hillary supporters are clinging to their bitterness and not moving forward.
They just keep churning and pointing fingers at who ever and keep on grinding the same stuff over and over

[world wide wally]

8. Back to the future

[JI7]

9. you act like this is in question when it's not

we know for a fact it was not rigged. if it was rigged then 2008 , 2004, 2000, and on and on were also rigged.

[JI7]

14. no, the candidates running against her just were not very good. Obama was able to beat her

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

16. Obama beat her in 2008

Last edited Sat Nov 4, 2017, 05:42 AM - Edit history (1)

because she was such a crappy candidate. She was a bit better in 2016, avoided the mistakes of her earlier campaign, and had the entire power of the DNC behind her. But she still wasn't a very good candidate. And more to the point, the DNC and a lot of people here completely missed how truly reviled she was outside a relatively small group of supporters.

But that doesn't matter any more. What absolutely matters is that we must move on, must give a lot of thought to what the Democratic Party should be in the future. Do we really want our future tied up with leaders in their 70's and 80's? Really? I don't.

[JI7]

20. she got millions more votes than those she ran against but those votes are viewed as lesser than

white male voters.

it's mostly white men who hate her . but even though she gets more votes than her opponents she is seen as having less support because the only group that counts for some is the votes of white males.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. Not only white male voters.

But a lot of women who are in the conservative christian fold.

Here's the problem that her supporters don't understand, or if they do, they don't acknowledge: there were a lot of people opposed to her, especially those who are or who identify with the christian conservatives. Don't get me wrong. I don't agree with them. But she had a long history with them, and the Democratic party simply didn't get it.

My genuine fear is that she's set back the possibility of a woman President by at least fifty years. A lot like Al Smith, who lost in 1928 and made it impossible for another Catholic to be a viable Presidential candidate for nearly close on to a half century. The hatred of Catholics back then is comparable to the hatred of women now. It's wrong. It shouldn't be there. We all need to be very vocal against it. But the simple truth is that hatred and opposition to a woman as Presidential candidate is very strong. And Hillary Clinton had a lot going against her that solidified that hatred out there.

Within the Democratic Party she was beloved or at least accepted. But so many of those who loved her simply had no idea of the force of dislike of her outside the Party. And that was too bad, because if it had been clearly understood and dealt with, she might very well be President today.

The underlying issue is that a lot of people, not just those of the conservative christian bent, sincerely don't think that a woman has any place in public life, and absolutely has no business as President. We have a long way to go to counteract that belief, just as Catholics and those who supported them, had a very long way to go after 1928.

What's the line about those who don't remember history?

[JI7]

23. she got MORE votes. but since they weren't white christian votes they don't count. fuck that

the people who hate her are fucked up types mostly that supported the bigoted piece of shit trump and cheer on his attacks on minorities. fuck them.

[Squinch]

40. Aaaaaand here you are a FIFTH time doing what you are telling others not to do.

[betsuni]

42. I can't keep up!

[Squinch]

44. Got to stay on your toes to keep up with the hypocrisy! It's like children playing "got you last."

[lunamagica]

50. This is ridiculous! She received over 65 million votes! I agree that we wont have

woman President for at least fifty years. But that was not because of Hillary. The election just opened our eyes and we saw how strong and prevalent misogyny is in this country. Hillary didn't cause that. Her candidacy just showed us the ugly reality.

If you really believe that any other female candidate wouldn't have been subjected to criticism,s about her appearance, voice, if she smiles she is weak,if she's serious she's a witch, if she raises her voice she's hysterical, etc. you are mistaken.

Sad but true

[Squinch]

39. Here you are a FOURTH time doing what you are telling others not to do.

[Squinch]

32. So you will continue to fight about it, but no one else should.

[Squinch]

38. Here you are a THIRD time doing what you are telling others not to do.

[betsuni]

41. Yes.

[denbot]

19. K&R n/t

[customerserviceguy]

21. Gerrymandering

has nothing to do with the Electoral College.

It does indeed get reflected in the composition of the House of Representatives, and the state legislatures, but that's it. Two big things, for sure, but gerrymandering had nothing to do with the election outcome.

[L. Coyote]

55. Correct. Poster doesn't even understand politics 101.

[Demsrule86]

24. This is not just an attack on Hillary...but the DNC as well and that can't be tolerated. It must

be refuted.

[Vinca]

25. You're exactly right. If we live in the past, we'll remain in the past.

I wish there was a separate forum for 2016 election talk so we could focus on future elections. It would be nice to win something.

[LostOne4Ever]

29. We wouldnt be having this discussion in the first place if DU actually enforced its rules

But it doesn’t.

We are still refighting the primary and there is open Bernie and Hillary Bashing DESPITE it being against the rules.

[PDittie]

45. +1

The primary violation, IMO, being the continuing bias against Sanders for 'not being a Democrat'. Skinner himself cleared this up two years ago ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251774376#post3

... but the alerts and hides and bans since then on the basis of people believing this false premise are too many to enumerate.

[YOHABLO]

30. It really doesn't do us any good to rehash. But the whole thought of it makes me sick.

Now I suppose we'll haggle over the 2016 election up through 2018 and into the election in 2020. New leadership in the DNC is paramount if we want to ever restore our country to sanity. The DNC better be quickly bringing in the money. We need a huge war chest.

[Squinch]

33. You start a thread saying we need to move on. Within it you post FIVE primary-refighting posts.

There's a word for that. Starts with "h".

[ms liberty]

43. I agree with most everything you've said in this thread. K&R. n/t

[Madam45for2923]

46. I cannot stand with HRC being impugned by our side. I want to look at the future but will 4ever

rise for this woman when it is required.

I won't let the history books f*ck with her.

Not under my watch.

[Madam45for2923]

52. X 10000000000000000000000

[PDittie]

48. I do not agree that it doesn't matter.

There is a yawning schism in the Democratic Party because it matters. There are thousands of threads in this forum and others that demonstrate its relevance.

Donna Brazile could have come clean about it months ago, but she didn't have a book to sell at that time.

This wound is still oozing, and to ignore it would be dangerous.

I agree that moving on -- while addressing the causes of last year's ignominious defeat -- is necessary.

[L. Coyote]

54. We certainly should care that there is a war on truth and democracy. That's what this is.

The primaries were not rigged, but those who oppose democracy are bending the truth to create divisiveness. That is what must be countered instead of falling for their crap and wading into the civil war the opposition continues to foster. Don't be a sucker.

[lovemydogs]

56. Poindexter is so right.

I moved on from Bernie losing and supported Hillary in the general.
Hillary's supporters must find a way to move on.
It will be 2018 in a couple months.
Let it go

[Squinch]

58. ANOTHER poster saying "move on" and then refighting the primary in the next breath. You guys are

too freaking much.

[crazycatlady]

60. There is an election in 3 days

Let's win them

[Kaleva]

61. What rightwingers were saying last year about the Dem primary

I won't post links back to the articles because they are at sites of ill repute. At least in our opinion.

Oct. 13, 2016 by Melissa Dykes

"Can this be considered a fair election anymore? No. This is an inside job, and that does not qualify as an election. People need to come to terms with that first. There was no legitimate victory in the DNC nomination;"

October 20, 2016 by Mac Slavo

"Hindsight is making more and more clear that Hillary’s outrageously rigged campaign is dependent – heavily dependent – on control over the media.

Nearly every question she has been asked during the past 18 months has been approved and agreed upon ahead of time. Hillary’s responses have been heavily scripted and rehearsed."

April 15, 2016 by Melissa Dykes

"This fact caused Joe Scarborough to go off on the Dems on air with:

“Why does the Democratic Party even have voting booths? This system is so RIGGED!”"

07/25/16 by Lisa Hagen

"Trump said Wasserman Schultz helped to “rig the system” for the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee during the primary.

“Whether you like her or not, she worked very, very hard to rig the system. Little did she know that China, Russia — one of our many, many friends — came in and hacked the hell out of us,” he said. "

[grossproffit]

62. Passive aggressive post.

Not even subtle.