I just gotta say this: It is grotesque to put a political spin on the shooting in CO

[cali]

at this point in time. We have no fucking idea why this guy did this. None. And speculating is pointless and imo damaging.

I went to over to Freeperville. Idiots over there are blaming it on the left because evidently Nolan portrayed Occupy in a negative light. People here are already blaming the disgusting Limbaugh because of his moronic comments about Bane/Bain.

To me this is so ucky, degrading, wrong. I'm sorry, I can't seem to find the right words for this kind of speculation.


All I can think about is the terror of the people in the theatre, they dying of those who just went to watch a movie, the injured in hospitals, their families and the families and friends of those who died.

And there is one person who we clearly can blame: The murdering fuck who entered that theater to kill and maim and terrorize.

In my book, anything else can wait.

[Tennessee Gal]

1. Agreed.

It is wrong to put any type of political spin on this from either side.

[bluestateguy]

2. We need to wait and see what the facts are

It probably has nothing to do with politics, and if it does the facts will come out in due order.

[cali]

3. exactly.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. Most these acts aren't rooted in politics...

It was probably a loner who had no political background at all. Sure, you might dig up he was a registered Republican or Democrat, but in the end, it's unlikely politics played a role in this. They rarely do. Sometimes people are psychopaths and go off the deep end and do stupid, awful shit like this.

It's also possible he's had it planned for a while now and chose the premier because it meant a large crowd, plus the ability to hide his weapons because a lot of people dress up for these events. The fact he got in dressed like he did is exactly why he chose this event. Not because of Occupy Wall Street or Rush Limbaugh.

[alfredo]

32. The timing is what has made us think of Rush. That was the

First thing that came to mind when I heard what movie he chose.

[Blanks]

62. That seems a reasonable first assumption to me.

Although I agree with the OP. We shouldn't make a bunch of assumptions about the motivation of the shooter.

Thinking out loud; Rush was the first thing that came to my mind.

[alfredo]

70. There is precedence. I had the feeling the guy was sick whether

Motivated by the radio or the voices in his head.

[Firebrand Gary]

5. We all should be focused on the families of those lost, what a horrific tragedy!

What in gods name is happening to the US? Now we have to worry about allowing our children to see Batman on the big screen?

My prayers are with the families of those who died this morning. Heartbreaking, just completely heartbreaking!

[redgreenandblue]

6. You are right of course.

[dogknob]

7. Sure, but...

How many liberals do you know who keep gas masks, tear gas and enough ammo to kill at least 10 and injure at least 50 (so far) -- some in the adjacent theater -- handy?

[cali]

9. I can think of one right off hand

I don't know about the tear gas, but he always has quite the supply of dynamite.

[boxman15]

41. I don't know one.

But then again, I don't know a conservative, libertarian, moderate, etc. that has all this either. Right now there is absolutely no indication that this was politically motivated in anyway.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. I understand the speculation.

We, as humans, often try to make sense of things around us, especially things that seem extraordinary (religion). A tragedy like this upsets people and they try to make sense of what happened. What I don't like is people treating speculation like fact or completely ignoring the tragedy itself because they are so mired in anger, often because of something else.

[HereSince1628]

30. Yep & part of the rationalization is affirming our self-image ... so we blame 'the others'

and we define them in ways that "we" believe "we" are not. It becomes a matter of group cohesion--"we" are not like that, everyone is safe among "us".


In nine years on DU there have been a number of these terrible things, and responses are predictable. Projection of the heinous act onto those we fear, oppose or simply don't understand will be common.

We'll be reading opinions all day that the person who did this was mentally ill. Not because the mentally ill are inherently that much more dangerous than the mentally well, but because mental illness is poorly understood and feared.

[B Calm]

10. I guess we shouldn't blame OReilly

for abortion doctors being shot, but we do.

[MADem]

11. Without speculating as to the motives of the shooter, this is an act of terrorism.

If it has a political component, or if it comes from the recesses of a disturbed mind with no political bent to it at all, it is an act of terrorism. It is not a "shooting"--it is a terrorist attack.

Fifty people are wounded, fourteen--so far--dead.

This is like the Rex Theatre in Abadan, writ small. It is an horrific event.

[DCBob]

12. We may never know this psycho's motives.

but it would not be surprising if politics was involved given the circumstances.

[Skidmore]

13. Agree.

However, in this time, I don't think political motivations on the part of a killer of this type should immediately ruled out. This individual had clearly been plotting this for some time, was definitely involved in the weapons culture, and clearly had some axe to grind, whether reality based or not.

He definitely is a terrorist, domestic or otherwise, and should be charged as such.

[NWHarkness]

19. OP did not say rule them out

OP said wait and see. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

[jimlup]

14. Well maybe but the whole thing about guns seems to once more raise its ugly head...

I'm sorry but I grew beyond the 2nd Amendment years ago. It just isn't relevant in today's society.

The guy was insane. That's blatantly obvious. So it doesn't matter if he was "left" or "right" but the fact that he had a loaded gun in a crowded theater is what worries me.

[dipsydoodle]

15. Fair comment

Its an unfortunate biproduct of the necessity the media etc feel they need to use to milk a subject.

[deutsey]

16. That didn't even occur to me

My first reaction was disgust and sadness, especially after reading one young girl may be among the victims. I thought how it's a kind of family ritual for me to go to the movies with my kids.

I agree with you...put the politics aside for a fucking moment and allow yourselves to be human. Get angry, grieve, cry...just don't be so damn eager to start pointing fingers so soon.

[quaker bill]

17. I agree, let the facts speak for themselves

It is however horrific that anyone so unstable has access to body armor and powerful semi-automatic weapons.

[onehandle]

18. The National Republican Association would disagree with you.

Whenever gun culture reaches its logical conclusion, they send out fund raising letters by the millions.

Mass murder is their best friend.

[cali]

20. oh your post is so depressing.

literally made me tear up.

You are correct. that's sickening in itself.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

21. Ya know,...this is kind of a political place....

People throw reactions and some of those first impressions are colorful.

I'd rather gauge reaction and just do it. If I'm known as a nut than I'm that nut in us all.

[malaise]

22. Well Scumbaugh did not find it grotesque to suggest an orchestrated Bain link

to the Bane villain.

[gordianot]

23. Some advantages for Joe Scum being the first idiot of the day to sound off.

He needs to stop that before Limbaugh sits on his face in a fit of jealous rage.

[Vinca]

24. But, chances are, it is connected to the "hate machine."

[leftynyc]

25. 100% agreement

Most of these victims are likely teenagers just looking for a fun summer night. Now their parents have to bury them. And the ones alive will carry the scars of last night for a very, very long time. It's a tragedy.

[Zen Democrat]

26. I was shocked to hear on CNN that this wasn't terrorism because the perp was a white male.

When people are shot and killed watching a Batman movie by a shooter with multiple guns and gas bombs, that is terrorism. It's not defined by nationality, race, religion, or mental condition.

[ananda]

39. That was my thought exactly.

The guy was committing a terrorist act.

[Marrah_G]

44. It's mass murder

The term terrorism, I believe, goes more towards the motive, which we don't know yet.

The UN defines it as:

Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them.

[jillan]

49. And this is why CNN's ratings are in the toilet. This IS domestic terrorism.

[Blanks]

63. Horrified, I can see, shocked; not so much.

I was shocked to hear on CNN that this wasn't terrorism because the perp was a white male

[The Wielding Truth]

35. To throw the obvious out the window, would be ignoring the "elephant" in the room.

It is quacking like a duck. Isn't it?

This will shake out and when it does and this guy was influenced by Rush's idiocy and his ability to speak so irresponsibly to millions,we must hold him and others whose instigating drive these incidents, accountable. We must take steps to make those with mass media exposure responsible for their irrational hate speech. Limbaugh has, metaphorically,yelled fire in this crowded theater.

[lapislzi]

40. Except "we" won't.

The perpetrators of stochastic terrorism are never prosecuted. Their mouthpieces are never withdrawn because they have the comforting cloak of plausible deniability. Nobody could have expected. Lone wolf. The stochastic terrorist is by its very nature a coward: it relies on proxies to carry out its work.

While I agree that a rush to judgment (pun intentional) is premature, it is the work of those of us with an investigative bent to try to gather as much information as possible in as short a time as possible, as digital media is easy to scrub. it's macabre and grotesque, but, at some level, necessary.

That being said, nothing that can possibly be uncovered about this person will have the power to surprise me.

[GarroHorus]

28. Too late, it's already happened here.

One thread claims that once the shooter's name is released rightwing web sites will be scrubbing posts.

Another thread is already calling for a gun grab.

[GoCubsGo]

31. Terriffic.

I was wondering how the right was going to blame this all on Obama. I never thought that people here would give them the idea that this is the fruition of their "Fast and Furious" conspiracy theories.

[earthside]

29. Well, they are doing it right here in Denver.

Starting an hour early at 4:00AM our local Denver birther-bigot radio talker on KHOW/630AM was letting callers launch into how an armed citizenry would have been able to shoot the shooter before he did anymore damage.

One caller spoke of the "gun suppression" environment in this country. Hey, here in Colorado we have a pretty lax concealed carry law, the theatre could have been full of people carrying. Almost everyone I know, liberal and conservative, in this state owns a gun ... promoting the idea "gun suppression" just shows you how crazy these rightwing gun nuts really are.

But who in their right minds thinks that a battlefield of concealed carry shooters in a dark, cramped theater all trying to take out the murderer is a preferred course of action?

Oh, it is coming in very short order, the politics and invective coming from the rightwing. I just encourage liberals and progressives to not respond in-kind to these heartless jerks.

It is a time for compassion and for wondering why this happens in our country -- without letting the NRA fanatics turn this into a "gun control" debate.

[nichomachus]

47. Yes, a mass shootout would have been so much more productive

With excited, scared, poorly trained shooters firing in all directions, we'd probably have over a hundred dead at this point.

[bushisanidiot]

33. I certainly hope the motive wasn't political, but speculation of "reasons why" is fair..

as everyone knows, there are thousands of gun nut/right wing loonies who have threatened others who think differently than them. the freepers showed up to Candidate Obama's rally in 2008 with guns. Some of these "people" are just looking for a reason to make a statement. Again, I hope this wasn't triggered by Limbaugh's crazy talk this week about linking Bane the villain and Bain Capital, but honestly, we can't rule that out until we know more.

Peace to the wounded in Colorado, and to the families of the murdered there.

[cali]

36. for lack of a better word, at this point in time it's unseemly

and looking to use it to score political points and demonize political opponents/enemies is disgusting and disrespectful to the victims and families and friennds and communities. duh.

[redgreenandblue]

34. While I agree, I do think gathering potential info from social media quickly is important.

[cali]

53. oh, yeah. so do I.

that's not what I'm talking about.

[patricia92243]

37. Sorry - but that is the first thing that entered my mind. I will be shocked if it was not inspired

by right wing hate. They encourage violence, and frankly I can't think of any reason people would have shunned the movie before it was even shown except Limbaugh and his ilk talking about it before it was released.

I don't know if they will be able to "prove" it. Time will tell.

[AngryOldDem]

38. Thank you.

I admit I was thinking about not logging on to DU today because of all the speculation and finger pointing that most likely would be going on, even more so after ABC News reported that this guy is supposedly on some Tea Party sites, even though his name (first and last) is probably among the most common in the country.

I understand that the way some people cope is to lay blame anywhere, on anyone, as it helps them to make immediate sense of a senseless act. However, I absolutely despise the way it can be used to score political points.

These political points, I might add, are being made at the expense of the dead and wounded, whose blood is still drying on the seats at that theater.

K&R.

[Marrah_G]

42. I agree

kids are dead, people are dead and none of us know why yet.

[Odin2005]

43. The gun-grabbers need only the slightest excuse to go on a rant.

It pisses me off.

[Comrade Grumpy]

59. You mean like 12 people being murdered?

[Odin2005]

60. I mean them politicizing tragedies like this.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. Thank you.

I knew from the first headline that the vultures would be descending to politicize the latest tragedy. Respect for the victims? Heaven forfend...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. 1st Court Appearance : Monday

[Doctor_J]

48. So we should sit and sagely nod our heads while the fascists

wage war?

cali, attitudes like yours are why we've gone from the world's shining light to a fascist hell-hole in one generation.

[cali]

50. it really bugs me that you have my Senator as your avatar

He'd be disgusted by your comment. As am I. And yeah, genius. I know that.

[ProSense]

51. Here's a

member of Congress: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002980942

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Agreed

[jillan]

54. It's hard not to wonder what was in the shooters head, but I agree with Cali - let the authorities

get to the bottom of this.

[siligut]

56. Yes, we can count on the authorities to give us the facts

Certainly if this tragedy was motivated by political or religious reasons, our M$M will have no qualms about reporting the facts. The NRA doesn't have a stake in this, thank goodness, as they have shown themselves to be obstructive and influential. Of course, in a disaster like this, Rush Limbaugh and his vehicle, Bain owned Clear Channel will show respect, so if they have anything to hide, they are reasonable people and will work with investigators to get to the bottom of this. See, everyone wants the truth and an end to the madness, we will soon learn all of the details as they come out.

[Lint Head]

55. This occured to me also. The ditto heads are such lemmings following the drug addict

Limbaugh.

[cali]

57. kick.

[Kaleva]

58. Agree. Rec'd.

[onehandle]

61. I blame it on the National Republican Association and their gun company clients.

Gasoline takes a match to ignite.

[gopiscrap]

69. Me too!

[Jake2413]

64. If you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got....

I'm sorry but it is time to regulate guns. Today the answer is to put more police at theaters, great more guns. And I sure everyone who owns a gun will be packing. So what you have is a war.

[Douglas Carpenter]

65. it's certainly not left or right, -but if we had gun conrols laws like all western democracies have

- these things would happen a lot less. This incident is primarily the fault of the NRA and America's bizarre gun culture. Most murder's and homicides in America are primarily the fault of the NRA and America's unique gun culture. Just cross the border to Canada or go go to any Western Democracy and they have a fraction of the homicides that America has. Even where I currently live in the Northern Marianas which is in sovereign U.S. Territory - in spite of lots of drinking, gambling, drugs and a vast income gap - they have a fraction of the homicide rate of the U.S. mainland. What is the difference? Everyone knows the difference. Tough gun control laws. People who oppose strict gun control laws are causing thousands of deaths every year in America. This terrible incident in Colorado and the vast majority of homicides in America are largely caused by the NRA and the gun culture. It is mostly their fault.

[Kablooie]

66. Everyone automatically attribute the horror to someone they don't like.

It's childish and ignorant to use your own adversaries as a cause for this kind of disaster .
The killing was indescriminate so is unlikely to be related to a political philosophy .
The shooter himself was responsible and until we hear more facts other attributions just show a lack of respect to the victims.

[panader0]

67. I've read most of the posts here on DU today

this one a few times. I think it's the best post on this horrorific event today. I've seen people crazed here on DU and heard Laura Ingraham's slant this morning, two extremes. Wait and see is all we can do.

[Canuckistanian]

68. I've said it again and again

NEVER rush to judgement on a major news story in America for 48 hours.

The initial story is ALWAYS wrong in one way or another. And people get all worked up on BOTH sides.

Patience, grasshopper. Stick to the KNOWN, VERIFIED facts before posting that screed on... whatever.