Breaking : Fatalities in TX mass shootings..UPDATED

[HipChick]

Last edited Sun Nov 5, 2017, 05:20 PM - Edit history (5)

https://www.ksat.com/news/shooting-sutherland-springs-church-gunfire-mass-shooting-airlife

27 Deaths...24 Injured..

Live Local Feed: http://www.kens5.com/news/local/witnesses-several-people-shot-at-church-in-sutherland-springs/489257566
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/11/breaking-many-dead-in-texas-church-shooting/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social

A shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Sunday morning left more than 20 people dead and 20 more wounded, though figures are yet to be confirmed, according to the Associated Press. The gunman is also reportedly dead.

The gunman opened fire at around 11:30 a.m at First Baptist Church, and police and FBI have now secured the scene, KSAT 12, a local news station, reports. Relatives and friends of the victims remained near the church to hear news of their loved ones, according to a KSAT reporter on the scene.

Link to tweet

[SHRED]

1. Ugh

[HipChick]

3. Media outlets are carrying little detail..so far..but 15, including children are among the dead..

[stollen]

105. A town with a population of about 900.

Everyone will be impacted.

[HipChick]

106. omg

[stollen]

124. Watch that live feed....."lost half their church"

"thoughts and prayers"

I wonder when that line will finally become cliche in the face of a human catastrophe.

Everyone is being moved to City Hall for a briefing. The community hall is for grieving families.

[stollen]

169. 6 year old boy shot 4 times, fighting for his life

[stollen]

182. I can't believe guys at the podium are laughing/smiling

This is the most "exciting" thing that has happened to them their entire lives. How sickening.

[loyalsister]

222. At least for a little while sir, me and her we had us some fun

I wonder if many of these have been thrill killings? There hasn't been much talk of that.

[stollen]

224. The sheriff is a nut

He wanted to pick a fight with the media immediately. A Trumpie, to be sure.

In fact, Sheriff, Sir, it SHOULDN'T happen. We already know it DID and DOES. We see it in the news everyday. Asshole.

[loyalsister]

233. I'll take your word for it

I think that when something horrifying happens, there is a contingent who wishes they had been there. It's not just fame seeking shooters looking for glory who get a charge out of these killings.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

206. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the

victims." I likewise am heartily sick of that phrase.

Let's instead actually show what the dead and wounded look like, so that people won't think those who are shot die neatly, tidily, with little blood and no disfiguring. Maybe then at least some of those who so stoutly defend guns will have a second or third thought.

[Dulcinea]

110. Is it still too soon to talk about gun control?

[brush]

210. It's beyond pathetic, even silly now that the NRA and repugs continue to be able to suppress...

Last edited Sun Nov 5, 2017, 07:21 PM - Edit history (2)

gun control efforts and not care that the mass shooting continue.

Who are these monsters?

Access to guns to any and everyone is way more important than human life to them.

The country is a gun toting cauldron of hate and violence now. Who wants to even go out and be in a crowd anywhere anymore?

You're afraid some crazed, or just the opposite, a dispassionate, nonchalant killer, enabled by the NRA, is going to come in shooting.

[katmondoo]

132. MSNBC just said 25 killed including children

[forgotmylogin]

239. With 50 people injured or killed...

I'm curious how many people didn't get hit with gunfire? Does the church hold many more than 50?

Do they have an attendance number for the day?

[shenmue]

2. Oh no

[hatrack]

4. Now, now, let's not all starting talking or thinking or writing about this!

Now is not the time, you see.

[malaise]

5. Not again

Well there go the Flynn and Ross scandals

[Kirk Lover]

14. They are not going anywhere ...just on ice for a few..marinating.

[malaise]

19. True

Shooter now dead

[pintobean]

59. That's pretty cold.

Texans' lives matter, too.

[Aristus]

75. That's a tall ladder to climb when even Texans don't seem to think so.

Texas is home to gleaming, ultra-modern cities, fine universities, and one of the most important science-based installations in the country (Johnson Space Center.)

But as long as Texans cling to their comic book image as a rootin', tootin', six-gun shootin' Wild West fantasy, nothing is going to be done about guns and the people who are fanatically dedicated to the spurious notion that guns are problem-solvers.

[Paladin]

142. Give the Texas-bashing a rest, OK?

I just got off the last of several phone calls, confirming the safety of a number of my relatives; I didn't think any of them went to that church, but it's just a few miles away from where they live, and I had to make sure. Oh, and just so you know: even though they're Texans, they're also Democrats, like me. They own guns, but only because they're out in the country and there are lots of rattlesnakes around. So ease up on the Texas-trashing---at least until the bodies aren't warm, anymore. Or is that too much to ask?

[SCantiGOP]

152. You are absolutely right, Paladin

[Hangingon]

154. +1

[Aristus]

244. I was born and raised in Texas. San Antonio, in fact.

There's a reason why I don't live there anymore.

I started my post with everything that's good about Texas. It took up a single sentence, but at least I led with it.

[LanternWaste]

250. As you seem both comforted and confounded, I s'pose it works.

Many people do tend to believe that imaginary borders are more real than other imaginary things.

I'm sure it's rationalized as something other than magic thinking, or irrational thought, or even biased emotion pretending to be clever.

I'm certain there's an objective measure which can observe and test this make-believe line, and both confound and comfort its followers, as they petulantly giggle and indict others for predicating a belief on the wholly imaginary.

As you seem both comforted and confounded, I s'pose it works. Congratulations!

10cc's of patting oneself on the back is a wonderful cure for... something.

[malaise]

179. Guess what

I have a niece, nephew, grand-nieces and a niece and nephew in law all born and most still living in Texas.
I'll get emotional when America is ready to deal with the assault rifles and magazines.

[pintobean]

188. That has nothing to do with the post I replied to

but it certainly supports the accuracy of my response.

[TeamPooka]

66. America will ignore this as a "big story" No new league records set. We've seen church shootings too

Nothing new here.
This is how America wants to be.
otherwise we would have changed it.

[Codeine]

78. Why does somebody always say that?

People said it the other day after the bike path killings and Manafort hasn't disappeared from the discussion.

[obliviously]

100. Are you really that shallow?

[iluvtennis]

173. I find it "interesting" that every time there is major Russia story, some shooting occurs. I put

nothing pass Mafia Don the Con.

[GulfCoast66]

217. Guess what they are saying in Freeperville...

It happened to get the Donna Brazil story off the air.

Same shit, different ideology.

Conspiracy stuff does not behoove you.

[LanternWaste]

251. Your prophecy seems to have not worked out

Your prophecy seems to have not to have worked out as your tea-leaves and entrails led you to believe.

[Rollo]

6. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/shooting-texas-baptist-church-sutherland-11473150

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/shooting-texas-baptist-church-sutherland-11473150

[Turbineguy]

186. The nicer thing about the foreign news sources

is that there seems to be fewer (which I suspect) Russian trolls to inflame people in the comments section. Looking at the comments sections from American sources, it's just hard to believe there are that many assholes in the U.S.

[chillfactor]

7. OMG!

When is this insanity going to stop? Probably not until the orange one is taken down.

[Kirk Lover]

15. This insanity was here before him and will be here after him unfortunately.

[GulfCoast66]

20. Please

There have been mass shootings forever in this country. Trump has no effect on them.

[LisaM]

115. But he stokes anger.

The commonality - I think - between domestic and foreign terrorism is anger. Stoking it is extremely dangerous.

[Igel]

148. And the claim was that Obama did the same.

Just by being.

And Bush II stoked anger.

And Clinton made people angry.

What's the commonality here? There are people. And they get angry if they don't feel that they're in control and others are making them do things they don't like or accept conditions they don't want to accept.

[LisaM]

228. Obama (and Clinton) didn't want or feed off it, though.

Trump seems to thrive off it. I think it's a fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals.

[magicarpet]

60. tr-dump is habitually and consistently....

..... magnifying and amplifying the crazy so that the right wing nut job vipers feel safe to come out of their dark cubby holes and step into the light of day. Then act out their insanity to terrorize those who they think they have reason to hate, inflict harm or carry out fatal injury.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

8. Yee-ha! Another NRA Rodeo Sunday... getting old n/m

[moriah]

12. Probably, but the fact you admit it shows you're still sane. Nt

Edit: that didn't deserve a hide, that was a bloody *joke*, not actually promoting a conspiracy theory....

[madinmaryland]

10. Hey. Its just the price we pay for the privilege of having the 2nd A.

[Stallion]

13. Yes Its Too Early to Talk About Gun Control Concerning Church and Too Late Re Las Vegas

[RKP5637]

85. If they all had guns, everyone, wouldn't be a problem!!!

We are screwed in this country until politicians have the guts to stand up to the NRA proving profits to gun manufacturers, ammunition and donations to F'en politicians.

[SergeStorms]

193. We can't get....

the Republicans in Congress to stand up to a Constitution crushing, Treasury robbing, crazy as a loon would-be dictator, and you want them to stand up to the NRA?

I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing to keep myself from smashing my head against the wall in complete frustration with our "law makers" who won't DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS!

[RKP5637]

197. It's so F'ed up it's getting hard to describe it. We're truly living in an era of stupidity, greed

and approaching dystopia.

[SoCalMusicLover]

11. Thoughts & Prayers Of NRA Members Will Bring Lives Back

[MineralMan]

16. Aw, shit!

Not another one!

[HipChick]

18. Congress sends their regrets..

[MineralMan]

22. Thoughts and prayers, too, no doubt.

[HipChick]

24. Because the NRA has them by the short and curlies..

and they sure ain't going to do anything else..

[ailsagirl]

242. Yeh-- their usual BS bromide

[malaise]

17. First Baptist means African-American Church

Active shooter out there

[HipChick]

21. Based on their Youtube Channel...mixed..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwi858rGRPg0lFFVycFvvWA

[BigmanPigman]

155. This church video records each service so today's mass

should give the police a lot of evidence. They record services on You Tube weekly in case they can't make it to every service.

The shooter shot his family first I heard on MSNBC.

[joshcryer]

235. They need to release the video.

So that people can understand the terror that it brings.

But they probably won't and the courts will keep it locked up. They never released the full Columbine video.

For the same reason I believe they should release the Newton crime scene photos.

People need to understand what the aftermath is like.

[BigmanPigman]

237. I agree. I heard that the classroom in Sandy Hook

was so terrible that the seasoned professionals who had seen everything before this were throwing up. If they show the casualties of war battles why can't they show this? I understand that it is horrific and the families obviously do not want to see it AGAIN. However, visuals are VERY important and if the awful but very real scenes of theses attacks were shown then perhaps more people would not think of it as a distant incident that happened elsewhere to someone else. Visuals bring a new and very real dimension to the crime. If you see a POW being tortured in Vietnam that stays in your "mind's eye". It effects you. If you see the photos from Auschwitz that stays with you. Eventually it will have some effect on the male gender's current love affair with their semi automatic phalluses.....maybe?

[joshcryer]

238. It's understandable, though.

Trolls would almost certainly make friends with the victim's family and send the photos and images to them as a "surprise." There's an example of a young girl who was high on something dying in a car accident and the father to this day gets images troll sent to him (he sued the police for leaking the photos for that reason).

It would have to come with the consent of those involved, I think, for it to be fair. Or we'll just have to wait a few generations for everyone who is related to die. I dunno. It's a tough one.

[Kingofalldems]

23. Don't think so.

[moriah]

25. Incorrect, Googled that....

https://m.facebook.com/firstbaptistchurchsutherlandsprings/

May be a mixed church but not specifically AA-only. Sadly Sunday mornings are the most segregated time in America....

[MineralMan]

26. Not necessarily.

From the photos, I think not, actually.

We'll find out more, I'm sure.

[malaise]

30. Thanks all

Did not know there were mixed or white first Baptists.

[MineralMan]

33. Yup. In Texas, there are all sorts of Baptist churches.

You can't really tell much about the congregation by what they call themselves. There's no uniformity, really.

[moriah]

43. All "First" means is they claimed to be the first Baptist church in the area.

As I said, we actually have two "Second Baptist" churches, both claiming to be the second Baptist church established.

One, the one my neighbor dragged me to as a child when she was horrified to learn my parents believed in just teaching the Bible (OMG!) instead of organized churches, was lilly-white in the 80's-90s, and still mostly is.

The other is traditionally an AA church.

You might be thinking of the AME denomination, which is almost exclusively AA.

[lunasun]

150. Yes AME IS AfricanAmerican

https://www.ame-church.com/our-church/our-history/

[moriah]

157. I figure they probably would let a white person worship there...

... which is why I said almost exclusively (and should have probably said simply historically).

I think it's really sad that Sunday mornings are still the most segregated time of day in America, but I place that on the lilly-white churches I grew up in that weren't very kind to people who shared their denomination but not their skin color -- not historically African-American denominations existing and people continuing to worship there.

[lunasun]

160. That is why I included the history of how it came to be. They could not pray with whites

Philadelphia in 1787. When officials at St. George’s MEC pulled blacks off their knees while praying, FAS members discovered just how far American Methodists would go to enforce racial discrimination against African Americans

[sarisataka]

88. So this is

no great loss?

[Hoyt]

95. Look, I understand you and your gun buddies have a lot of splaining to do, but not what I said.

[sarisataka]

101. I have no splaining (sic) to do

I did not dismiss the victims as "white wing racists and haters, not many real Christians"

[Hoyt]

111. I responded to the post that said this was an AA congregation. Not true. Lots of gun loving,

racists are likely in that congregation just like just about every First Baptist church in the South. You are just trying to provide cover for "guns."

[sarisataka]

119. Interesting how I am

providing cover for guns, without ever mentioning any guns.

Put all the words in my mouth you want, but nothing changes your clear, prejudiced, views of the victims based only on what you assume to be their skin color. AFAIK no information has been released on the color of any victims. And even if they are white, how exactly does that lead to the conclusion they are all racist? If they turn out to be AA, what can we determine about their character?

[mythology]

221. You do realize that there are a number of First Baptist churches that are primarily African American

You are making a guess about who these people are. You may be right, but you don't actually present any evidence because you're starting from the conclusion you want to draw.

[cwydro]

114. What is your point with this post?

Curious.

[Hoyt]

120. My point is to correct the misconception of the person I replied to. The white Baptist congregations

in the South have a racist background, was historically cover for a lot of Klansmen, even today largely support folks like Trump, etc. Do you have some evidence I am wrong?

[cwydro]

123. Calm down.

I didn’t challenge you, did i?

I simply asked what your point was.

Tad thin-skinned there, fella.

[Horse with no Name]

156. Typically the Southern Baptist congregation

not so much the First Baptist congregation.

[mcar]

139. Lily white First Baptist in my town

Been around forever.

[OriginalGeek]

147. I grew up in Texas Baptist churches

Independent and southern Baptist. ..very few black people in any of them that I went to. Black people had churches but I don't remember how they were affiliated. First Baptist cudgel of downtown Dallas was a mega church in the 70s. 2 city blocks of downtown and thousands of members. They established "neighborhood" churches in outlying areas. Publicly rudd said it a so poorer parishioners would have to come downtown to worship. In reality it was to keep black people from coming to the main church downtown. Rich white folk tended not to come and donate as much when it got too ethnic. Pastor Criswell said "birds if a feather should flock together" and the sit people aid "amen".

[get the red out]

184. Plenty in the south eom

[nolabear]

27. Not at all. My family was First Baptist. WAY white.

[moriah]

32. We have two "Second Baptist Church"es in our town.

The one in downtown is lilly-white. The other is predominantly AA.

Had it been an AME I would have agreed with the assumption.

[Croney]

113. Yep. My folks in Baton Rouge are white first Baptists.

First Baptist bigots.

[GulfCoast66]

28. Really? You from the South?

I am and every town I know HS a first Baptist. None are majority black. Not saying this one is not, but African Americans generally attended Missionary Baptist Churches or AMC like the one in Charleston.

[malaise]

31. I'm not from the south

Thanks

[MineralMan]

36. You're from south beyond the South, I think.

LOL!

[malaise]

40. And first Baptist would mean Afro-Jamaican

[MineralMan]

50. There's a Baptist church of one sort or another on just

about every corner in Texas. They ran out of distinctive names for them long, long ago. There's really no rhyme nor reason in the naming of Baptist churches, with a very few exceptions.

AME (African Methodist Episcopal) Baptist churches and any Baptist church called Ebenezer Baptist Church is likely to have an AA congregation. First Baptist Church is fairly generic, and dates back to a time before the Baptists splintered into dozens, if not hundreds, of sub-denominations. That name comes from the original Baptist denomination in the US, which split a long, long time ago, so you knew that a First Baptist Church was as traditional as it gets. First Methodist and First Presbyterian got their names the same way.

As time went by, that no longer had any meaning, nor did many people remember the original splintering. So, sometimes, the First Baptist Church is no more than the first church of that denomination in that town.

It's complicated, sectarianism is.

[malaise]

54. Jamaica used to be in the Guinness Book of Records

for most churches and close to the top for murders as well.

[MineralMan]

56. An interesting juxtaposition.

It just goes to show you never can tell.

[moriah]

55. Are you still there, or are you in the US now? Just curious.

I've seen your posts for years and just assumed you were from the US.

That's the good and bad of only knowing people through text. I first got a modem in 1992, at 12. Chose an alias I intended to indicate I was a newbie. Thank the FSM everyone assumed I was an adult male college freshman because of that, and because it was prior to the "September That Never Ended" so most new people online were male college freshmen.

[Yonnie3]

133. I had not thought of Eternal September in a while.

My kill files sure got busy that fall.

[GulfCoast66]

38. Sorry Malaise. Did not even read who I was responding to

Do y’all even have Baptist Church’s down there. Just curious

Have a good one.

[malaise]

46. Whole heap

and AME Churches as well.

[GulfCoast66]

49. Huh, who knew. Would have guessed

Mostly Episcopalian

[malaise]

52. If you ever knew the links with those Southern Churches and

folks here. Some facilitate visas for hotel workers from here.

[CottonBear]

76. My Grenadian friend is a (converted) Baptist.

He was brought up in the Church of England. He converted at some point in his youth and then later attended (soccer scholarship) a small Baptist college in the Southeastern USA.

[malaise]

90. Lots of folks have long left the CofE better known as HIgh CHurch among locals

[moriah]

170. Another curious thing to me... My mother converted *to* Episcopalian. ;)

I am sure there are differences between the actual CofE and the Episcopal Church in America, even if they are still considered to both be part of the "Anglican Communion".

But here in the South, the joke is "Where you find four Episcopalians, you find a fifth". Whereas while you might see a "Baptist" at the liquor store on Saturday night, if you go to the same church neither one of you is likely to admit you recognize each other. It might be why "beer barns" or drive-thru liquor stores are so common here, actually.

[malaise]

174. I don't know the inner workings of any of them

We have a touring partner from youthful days who is now a bishop in the CofE - I'll ask him about differences next time I see him.

[d_r]

44. it usually means

it was the first Baptist church formed in a given town.

[bluepen]

65. Not necessarily. You may be thinking of AME.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

81. Sutherland Springs is 95% white, so not likely.

https://www.bestplaces.net/people/zip-code/texas/sutherland_springs/78161

[malaise]

108. I was clearly wrong

AME more likely in the US

[Stallion]

92. Doesn't appear to be the Case Based on Their Website I looked At

mostly Anglo it appeared

[jberryhill]

134. Not in general

[underpants]

151. Nah. I got married at a First Baptist and it certainly is white

[IronLionZion]

183. Their facebook page looks lily white

https://www.facebook.com/pg/firstbaptistchurchsutherlandsprings/photos/?ref=page_internal

[SharonClark]

187. No, it doesn't.

[DesertRat]

191. Sutherland Springs Demographics- 94.4% White

Link to tweet

/

[Ms. Toad]

220. The one my dad grew up in was 100% white. n/t

[Initech]

29. Just another day in the NRA's America!

[malaise]

37. Justheard 24 dead - WTF??? n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

34. Well, it's a day that ends in a "y," so.... NT

[malaise]

35. Holy shit - they're saying 24 dead

Bravo NRA

[KewlKat]

63. Ive not heard MSNBC mention dead. Where did you hear 24 dead.

[malaise]

129. May be more but at least 24 people are dead including children

Thank you NRA

[sheshe2]

213. MSNBC now...

at least 25 dead. 5:32pm here.

[malaise]

214. Closer to 30 now

FUCK THE NRA

[sheshe2]

218. Dayum.

They woke up on a bright sunny morning and went to their house to pray. Now they are dead. My heart hurts.

[Takket]

39. was is a muslim or can we all go on about our business?

[cwydro]

47. DU has frequently dropped discussion of shooting events,

depending upon who is guilty.

Sad, but true.

[LeftInTX]

131. I don't think this was a muslim

I'm in San Antonio and have never heard of this town Sutherland Springs.
Most muslims tend to be urban and wouldn't drive 50 miles to shoot up a small church in the middle of nowhere.
(I say 50 miles because this town is 30 miles from the south east city limit. Most muslims live in the north part of town)

[SunSeeker]

158. They are interviewing a witness on CNN who said word is he was a relative of a local family.

She said she knew some members of the family but not him, although she had "heard of him." The small, rural community of approximately 700 people appears mostly white, as reflected by the composition of the church's congregation.

It appears he is like most mass shooters, a young white troubled male.

[uponit7771]

162. +1, hate to say you're right

[WhiskeyGrinder]

41. If only we hadn't kept God out of our churches.

[world wide wally]

42. I know...

Too soon too talk about it?

[crazycatlady]

45. Prayers will be offered

AS usual

[HipChick]

48. That's about it...till the next incident...

[Nevernose]

117. And the irony of offering prayers will be missed

By many. “At least people are being thoughtful, right?”

They were in A CHURCH, people. If your prayers were worth a damn this wouldn’t have happened.

[0rganism]

195. thoughts too, remember to send thoughts

"thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers, graaak"

[Takket]

51. Albet Gamez, wilson country commissioner on CNN just said

"it s a very small church. A really nice WHITE community. You never expect something like this."

[Ezior]

53. This is crazy.

I'm glad my country has sane gun laws and a social safety net. Especially the latter. Even though many US right wingers believe that Germany is now a really dangerous place because of the recently grown to ~6% Muslim population, life around here is actually very safe compared to the US.

[Hoyt]

64. +1.

[Aristus]

83. I was stationed in Germany when I was in the Army.

You have no idea how much I miss it over there. I'm starting to really loathe this madhouse over here...

[BannonsLiver]

109. i traveled to South Africa over the summer

This is a country that has some issues with violence. Before our trip we received a lot of “why would you want to go there?” and “isn’t it dangerous?”

We get similar questions every time somewhere in Europe gets hit.


It amazes me that many of my fellow Americans don’t seem to grasp the fact they live in the most violent nation in the western world, and it’s not even close.

I actually feel safer when I travel to other countries than I do in my own.

[HipChick]

57. So...no one was carrying in Church? This was in Texas of all places too...

[Not Ruth]

61. In TX churches can make their own choices about allowing carrying

There is no evidence that the shooter could be stopped by a person or persons with a gun. Maybe he was a sniper like in Las Vegas, where guns were unable to stop the shooter.

http://txb.life/article/guns-in-the-pews-churches-have-the-right-to-choose

Beginning January 1, 2016, Texans with a handgun license will be allowed to openly carry their handguns. Churches in Texas may prevent handgun license holders from carrying handguns inside church buildings as long as the church gives proper notice. Each church may decide for itself whether to allow:

Both open and concealed carry of handguns
Concealed carry of handguns but not open carry
Open carry of handguns and not concealed carry
No handguns regardless of whether they are carried openly or concealed
A church does not need to take any action if it wishes to allow handgun license holders to conceal carry or open carry in church buildings. If permitting handgun license holders to conceal carry or open carry on church premises is a cause of concern to your church, Texas Penal Code Sections 30.006 and 30.007 provide clear rules for notifying handgun license holders that your church is a gun-free zone or concealed carry only.

In order to provide notice that a church prohibits either concealed carry or open carry the church must provide written communication to gun license holders. This written communication may be done in one of two different ways. Either churches may provide notice on a document that is handed out to all members and guests as they enter the building (e.g. a church bulletin or worship guide) or churches may post a sign on the property.

If the church chooses to notify license holders by posting a sign, the sign must be in both English and in Spanish, appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. Regardless of whether a church chooses to provide notice through a document, sign, or both, the language for the written communication must be identical to the following:

To prohibit concealed carry:

“Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.“*

To prohibit open carry:

“Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly.”

It is important to know that, in this context, church “premises” do not include a public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area. This means that even if a church provides notice through a written document or by posting a sign, handgun license holders may bring their handguns onto church property, but not into church buildings.

Keep following the office of Church Administration on social media and our website for updates and always feel free to call us if you have any questions about legal issues your church is facing.

*Note that the language required to provide 30.06 notice has changed. Churches that currently display signs providing 30.06 notice should update the language to reflect the changes required by law.

[appleannie1943]

58. Per CNN 27 dead 24 injured so far. Shooter is dead.

[OliverQ]

62. Not one to generally buy conspiracy theories but...

Manafort indictments: Immigrant from foreign soviet territory commits attack in NYC. Manafort pushed out of the news.

Flynn charges coming, Paradise papers implicate multiple Trump insiders with Putin: Mass shooting in texas.


Putin have agents in the US that commit attacks to change the media narrative, or total coincidence?

[HipChick]

67. I would not discredit this

anything is possible..

[Drunken Irishman]

69. You guys sound as loony as Alex Jones, who always blamed Obama for the shootings.

Stop.

[pintobean]

77. +1

[ecstatic]

196. If they can interfere with our election, there's no telling what else

they've decided to interfere with. Fake groups on Facebook, fake rallies, etc. Meanwhile, we have mass shootings every week, it's nothing for them to join in should they choose to.

Nobody would question it, although I wonder if the FBI is starting to (based on the amount of money, effort, and time they're spending on figuring out the Vegas shooter's motives).

[mvd]

68. I'm certainly open to conspiracy theories, but..

there is so much gun violence in this country that it's likely random. Brazile's timing is more suspicious. The gun violence is out of hand and a very sad situation.

[defacto7]

71. Putin agents wouldn't sacrifice themselves to do it.

[Codeine]

73. Knock that shit off.

Please don't make this look like a site full of goddamned imbeciles.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

84. You might want to loosen that tinfoil hat a bit.

[Hoyt]

87. It is a conspiracy, but one years in the making by NRA, gun-fanciers and gun profiteers.

[pintobean]

98. And the founding fathers.

[Hoyt]

103. Yeah, founding fathers who talked of liberty/freedom and went home to beat and rape their slaves.

The 2nd Amendment -- that you cherish -- was written to keep slaves for their owners purposes.

[uponit7771]

180. I put nothing past a guy that denigrates his own IC

[ecstatic]

190. It's possible that others are now exploiting our lax gun laws and weak responses

Whether the massacres are from Americans or Russian moles who exploit our vulnerabilities, none of it would be possible or plausible were it not for our gun laws.

RIP. I'm so disgusted.

[ucrdem]

72. .

Horrible.

[GaYellowDawg]

74. Who knew Texas was a "free fahr" zone?

I thought more guns = safety.

[HAB911]

79. I want to know

Where was God?
Where were all the good guys with guns? (TX doncha know)

[Hoyt]

89. Don't you know, God supports guns.

[HAB911]

94. Yeah that seems obvious

I think he's gettin' his jollies off, again obvious

[Hoyt]

97. +1. Without "God," this gun problem would have been solved long ago.

[a kennedy]

80. CNN just said tRump sent his tweet.......

he’s monitoring the situation


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
3m
May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan.

[HipChick]

86. It's 4:40am in the morning in Japan....he prob did not send that tweet either..

[NightWatcher]

96. He's waiting to see if it's a brown person so he can call it "Terrorism "

[SCVDem]

104. From the golf course.

More inane tweets to follow.

[pintobean]

82. ...

[FlaGranny]

91. Photos on Facebook page of this church

show a mixed congregation. At least 2 in the photos are black, possibly more. It is hard to see as some of them are underexposed photos taken in low light.

[stollen]

93. Live feed

http://www.kens5.com/news/local/witnesses-several-people-shot-at-church-in-sutherland-springs/489257566

[HipChick]

99. Thanks ..added to main comment..

[sunonmars]

102. I bet Trump returns home now and does his usual.

[Thrill]

107. They wont say terrorism. So we know its not a Muslim

Unreal

[maryellen99]

112. Theres rumors that the shooter killed his family before going to the church nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

122. I haven't heard anything about this. Was it reported on TV?

[Drunken Irishman]

136. Aunt of the suspect in this video says he's not the shooter.

That his parents were shot and he's at the hospital with them.

[Not Ruth]

138. Were his parents shot in their home or at church?

[Drunken Irishman]

146. Not clear - but there are now multiple people saying this guy is at the hospital with his family...

And if he was the shooter, he'd be dead since the shooter was killed. Chris Ward appears to NOT be the killer. It's unfair to him to spread this around, especially if it turns out he lost his family in the shooting.

[rufus dog]

116. San Antonio DUers can confirm

Based on the location I would expect it to be a large hispanic population.

[stollen]

118. It's a Baptist Church. It may be fairly white

Live feed showed white folks with cowboy hats and "heat" in their back pockets.

Crazed and craven x-husband?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

121. It looks like Sutherland Springs has few or no Hispanic people.

https://www.bestplaces.net/people/zip-code/texas/sutherland_springs/78161

[LeftInTX]

125. Probably not

Hispanic Baptist churches are always called, "Iglesia........."

I'm in San Antonio and have never heard of this town.

I think it is probably rural and probably unincorporated.

Based on the construction of the church, it could be a black church. Generally white churches are masonry.

[rufus dog]

135. Thanks for the local knowledge

It makes sense, I spent some time about 60 miles the other way in Kerrville and that was more white than I expected also.

[LeftInTX]

128. I saw their youtube channel and they are white.

[malaise]

130. Congressman says mostly white with some Hispanics n/t

[Ilsa]

141. If it had been mostly hispanic, it would have been named Primera Iglesia Bautista.

So mostly white with some hispanic makes sense.

[IronLionZion]

185. Their facebook page looks lily white

https://www.facebook.com/pg/firstbaptistchurchsutherlandsprings/photos/?ref=page_internal

[questionseverything]

230. the little girl in center of first pic is not white

the pastor's daughter looks Hispanic

what is the big deal with the "lily" white reference?

[IronLionZion]

240. Did you see the post I responded to?

Or the other one. A lot of DUers can't accept white terrorism, so they falsely claim it was a Hispanic or Black church, without any irony at all. Race affects how the story is reported and discussed. People are more comfortable scapegoating immigrants or Muslims but refuse to accept the fact that terrorists look like anyone anywhere. White people don't want to get the same discrimination that brown people get.

The shooter was a white male named Devon Kelly. Accepting white terrorism is the first step towards stopping it.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/texas-church-shooter-identified/

[questionseverything]

241. u said the church was lily white

I opened the facebook page u posted and saw a beautiful lil child of color right in middle of pic

<shrugs>

I think we will all be better off when we are mixed but that may be just me

[Vinca]

137. I mourn for this country. The news channels might as well rerun their broadcasts from the last

shooting. The politicians will all say the same things - "Pray for their families," "Thoughts and prayers with the families" and "Now is not the time to discuss guns." The only thing that changes is the victim count.

[spanone]

171. don't forget the 'first responders'

and the nra will tiptoe thru another mass murder

[kpete]

140. Trash talk

?w=600&h=320

[stollen]

149. I pray that republicans will figure out that guns kill

[Pachamama]

143. I feel sick to my stomach

This has got to stop...

[smirkymonkey]

211. So do I. It it out of control.

It's getting to the point where it is almost like having a weekly terrorist attack. Can you imagine that the government would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if that was the case? But just another whacko with a gun and it's fucking "thoughts and prayers" as usual. I'm so damn sick of this I could scream.

[Jim Beard]

144. The rural clash of gund & God.

[HipChick]

145. Interesting cross-section

to be sure

[malaise]

153. Largest mass shooting in a church

Ah well.

[HipChick]

161. Apparently Pastor's 14yr old kid is among the dead..

[malaise]

164. Well as they're saying he either killed or injured nearly everyone in the church

I mean holy shit.

[lunasun]

168. I'm not a church going person but when I have attended churches they usually only have the big

main entrance. Once the shooting started if it was during the service they would have been trapped in the room ( Sanctuary?) where the service was taking place.
Terrible tragedy and scary to think a person is not safe even in a church , although I realize this is not the first shooting in a church or house of worship

[malaise]

212. Is it true the pastor was absent today?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[HipChick]

216. Oh hoh..

[thbobby]

159. All I can say is

What a horrid tragedy. I can only cry and express my sincerest grief.

[stollen]

167. absolutely disgusting

and criminal on many levels

[Codeine]

163. Oh, knock it off with the "praying" nonsense.

This is the constituency that stands against any meaningful gun control legislation even being conceived, so maybe they need to look inward rather than upward when this shit happens.

[HipChick]

165. I turned the channel when they started with that crap..

[Nitram]

166. How many will it take?

[Va Lefty]

172. Honestly, if killing all those kids @ Sandy Hook

right before Christmas didn't change anything, nothing will.

[Nitram]

176. Maybe it will take the deaths of people conservatives know personally.

They dont's seem to care much about what happens in other states.

[maryellen99]

208. Dont forget the one who has been a huge open carry advocate is Susana Hupp

She witnessed her parents being killed in the Luby’s shooting and claim if she had her gun on her instead in the car,she could’ve stopped the shooting.

[Nitram]

219. You're right, we'll never reach the total fanatics.

I'm not sure if we want to...

[Nitram]

247. I saw that after I posted my comment.

Go figure.

[IronLionZion]

227. The more this happens, the more people will know someone personally affected

I know someone who was a victim/survivor of a mass shooting targeting minorities who stole jobs away from whites.

It happens everywhere, red states and blue states, cities and small towns, to all sorts of people of all backgrounds. It's disgusting.

[3catwoman3]

243. Getting shot didn't change the mind (if he has one)...

...of Representative Steve Scalise.

[Nitram]

248. Maybe he took a bullet to the logic center in his brain.

Although, since he's a Republican, he was probably born without a logic center.

[3catwoman3]

249. IIRC, wasn't he...

...shot in the ass? Rather fitting.

[Nitram]

252. LOL! Good point. He's got shit for brains.

[likesmountains 52]

198. Agreed...

[ecstatic]

201. Yep. Sadly. Nt

[maxrandb]

200. A better shot at a Congressional baseball game might do it

[stollen]

207. The breaking point will probably be the # of phone calls Trump has to make

[IronLionZion]

175. Since they're not calling it terrorism does that mean the shooter is white?

If some liberal DUer comes along and claims the shooter didn't have a political agenda then I will know for sure how white he is.

[Runningdawg]

177. Take this with a grain of sand...

I checked a R wing message board and there were some posts there that claimed the parents of the gunman were among the victims.

[exboyfil]

189. Family members are claiming that name

floating around is false - that he is a victim. The name originally came from a convenience store clerk who heard it from somewhere else. She said it on live television, and the announcer tried to walk it back.

[Runningdawg]

245. I'm not sure where that came from - I named no names

and it turned out to have a grain of truth to it - he sent his Mother In Law threatening text and she was a member there.

[exboyfil]

246. Maybe different names

There was one that was announced on air by "Carrie?" a convenience store operator which was flat out wrong, and I feel badly for that family.

[Lucky Luciano]

178. Isis and Al Qaeda can't even keep up with our own citizens.

[ecstatic]

181. Checked out their YouTube channel, saw lots of little kids

and young people who seemed friendly and down to Earth. It's heartbreaking and disgusting that yet another angry male (I assume) decided to massacre people.

[IronLionZion]

192. Considering how European-American their facebook page is

https://www.facebook.com/pg/firstbaptistchurchsutherlandsprings/photos/?ref=page_internal

I have to ask why some DUers want to convince us these people are actually black or brown and maybe hired some white actors for the facebook page and youtube channel and the local news video interviews of survivors. Are black and hispanic people conspiring with Muslims to white wash mass shootings? Maybe another DUer will tell us the first baptist church was actually a mosque? Maybe atheists next? How about Jewish? Oh, I know these folks must be on diversity visas.

It seems like some DUers are still in denial of white terror, and always will be.

[pintobean]

194. Why are so many in this thread

so concerned with the racial make up of this town and congregation?

[ecstatic]

199. I wasn't, but race does set the stage of how the tragedy will be handled

and discussed in the media, by Trump, etc. That's our reality, as disgusting as it may be.

[sarisataka]

205. So why do we

As alleged progressives support that narrative?

Shouldn't we place our self above such concerns and feel the same for the victims regardless of skin color rather than try and estimate how racist they may be and if they have some responsibility for their murders because they might be Republican?

We saw the same thing in the Vegas shooting where being a country music fan was considered by some a positive confirmation of right-wing politics.

[ecstatic]

209. Progressives tend to be proactive in order to be on top of the situation

and a part of the narrative. We don't wait for when the narrative has already been set by others. So I believe that any posts that address race are for the purpose of information and staying on top of the situation and the unfolding narratives. Your interpretation of those discussions are way off base.

[HipChick]

202. Black churches have been targets..

and also Trump administration has determined if perp is not white..must be terror

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

203. Because that will influence the spin the politicians and some of the media

will put on it.

[Va Lefty]

204. Welcome to America circa 2017

Race is THE issue in Traitor don's 'Merica

[IronLionZion]

225. To perpetuate the denial of white terrorism

When the shooter is identified to be undeniably white, watch a lot of DUers claim there was no political agenda, lone wolf, mental illness, etc. And the feminists will claim it's a male problem. Guns are the problem.

Nobody wants to be associated with terrorists or viewed with suspicion. So nice white liberal DUers definitely know better but don't want to be put under the same discrimination that brown people face every day, so they just pretend it's not white.

[GETPLANING]

215. Read the comments on KSAT and KENS (local San Antonio news) sites

And you will get an idea why nothing will change. Most comments are from the NRA crowd about wishing everyone would carry a gun because the more people carry guns, the fewer shootings would occur. Makes sense, right? Guns don't kill, people do. But if you give everyone a gun, what the hell do they think will happen? It's the very definition of insanity.

[loyalsister]

223. There always seems to be an almost celebratory crowd

People who glorify what they would have done had they been there. These folks don't come out of nowhere. Our culture enables and encourages these events. How can a country that sees ongoing war and killing as a solution not produce people who do these things?

[HipChick]

226. Elusive yt guy with a gun took out the suspect..

They will be celebrating this one..

[loyalsister]

232. Yep

When I was a bartender a guy was complaining about traffic and he told me he would no longer drive in the city until he could mount a gun on the hood of his truck... to shoot bad drivers. He seemed very ordinary, but at the same time I would think it takes a lot of rage to say or even think something like that.
With the number of people who worship guns, there must be a lot of them who have creepy fantasies about what they might do with them. The way killing and the instruments for it are represented and glorified here, I wonder maybe we should be surprised that it doesn't happen more?

[sarisataka]

236. It is a good thing

That someone stopped his murder spree but there is nothing to celebrate

[chelsea0011]

229. They really believe that if everyone could just shoot it out only the bad guys would be killed.

Lunacy.

[Not Ruth]

231. Current Reddit rumor is white Christian felon discharged for dishonorable US military service

Killed by “good guy with a gun”

The takeaway for me is ex military. Teach them to kill and turn them loose in your streets. This is what happens.

[sarisataka]

234. Ex-military are all dangerous

And should be quarantined