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Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 07:44 PM Nov 2017

After all is said and done...we lost.

Putin has won on several fronts;

1. He successfully hacked our election system using our stupidity, bias, hatred, racism, greed, etc. and turned the tables. And in doing so, made the case "why" democracy is "dangerous". This won't destroy our nation, but it will resonate with the rest of the world. Bush's military adventurism and Trump's idiocy gives credence that the ages old empire of Russia is the adult in the room, from being the first army in Berlin to marching in Paris after taking down Napoleon. Thus more nations will be wary of turning power over to the people and keep autocrat-ism.

2. He will take credit for bringing down Trump. It hasn't happened yet, but we all know, its coming. He built this house of cards and will not just blow it down, but set fire to it. Later it will come out his government was behind on a number of leaks. Steele's dossier was planned by Putin. Steele was a known intelligence officer, Putin had to know he was looking for dirt and happily obliged. Because he already knew the end game and it was in his favor. We lose respect in the rest of the world for being so easily being manipulated.

3. We are no longer the world's policeman. He exposed our hypocrisy, demonstrated our fickleness, etc. Trump didn't even give a shit about the Rangers being killed, McCain being a POW, etc. ...and a portion of the populace supported this. So how does the optics look to the rest of the world? Not Good. Sure Obama was an ideal US President, however, a significant portion of our populace despised him... and in revenge, elected Trump. Putin called the US "bi-polar"...sad to say he was right. The BRIC nations, who have the most to gain by this, obviously like it.

4. We lost the Mid-East. No really, we are out of the picture. Under Obama, we were making inroads into Iran. But now, we lost Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq...and perhaps Saudi Arabia. We have Qatar...which has its skeletons. Oh and we back a corrupt PM in Israel. Russia has regained and then some credibility in the Mid-East...when shit happens as it inevitably will, Russia will have prominence at the table.

5. We lost Georgia. The current government is slowly trying to repair relations with Russia. Corrupt Sack-of-Shit-Vili, is only wanted in his home country behind bars.

6. We lost Armenia and Azerbaijan. Both nations hate each other with a passion...and who do they go to resolve their differences? Russia.

7. We lost Turkey...a NATO member. Russia tipped Edrogan off about an imminent coup, when they had every reason to tell him to fuck off and die. Were we involved? I don't know...nor does it matter. We were implicated, successfully.

8. We lost Ukraine. Sooner or later, Crimea will be recognized by the rest of the world as part of Russia. Unless western Ukraine gives eastern Ukraine is desires, they will be in perpetual conflict. Both sides have lost the civil war, but refuse to acknowledge it.

9. NATO is now a paper tiger. In the rush to include more nations, we never stopped to think, if we should. There have been major protests by some nations about being included in NATO. Legit or not, there was a significant portion of the populace who viewed this dis-favorably. Can you blame them? It would seem as if they surrendered part of their autonomy to NATO, which often takes direction from the USA. When you got nations of Austria, Ireland, etc. who adamantly refuse to be part of NATO, while smaller nations are essentially bullied into joining. More nations means more opportunities a nation can refuse to be part of a questionable military intervention. Does NATO survive? I don't know, but its a question we need to look at.

10. Putin has gone on record in stating the world should not have a single "superpower". But instead should be a multi-power world, similar prior to WW1, without the egos, as I stated earlier. So I wont rehash that. However, that is the direction we are going in. And Trump's presidency has pretty much assured it.

We lost. Now the question is, once Trump is out, how do we rebuild?

-----
This will ruffle feathers, I know. I plan not to respond to comments, I want to gauge everyone's views vs. my own. You know, to learn something.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
After all is said and done...we lost. (Original Post) Xolodno Nov 2017 OP
Crime of the century. He won a lot more..... keep going. Good job. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #1
You're not wrong, sadly. Codeine Nov 2017 #2
Reagan was the beginning of the current GOP philosophy... BigmanPigman Nov 2017 #3
It is more complicated than that. Twitler Nov 2017 #4
Not what it looks like vrguy Nov 2017 #6
"He successfully hacked our election system" PDittie Nov 2017 #5
We lost Cuba. lpbk2713 Nov 2017 #7
China is the big winner. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2017 #8
#2 is wrong. Honeycombe8 Nov 2017 #9
I know this is trite, but the primary requirement for our recovery is simple integrity. Atticus Nov 2017 #10
We are losing ground on leadership dreamland Nov 2017 #11
 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
2. You're not wrong, sadly.
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 07:46 PM
Nov 2017

Hard to believe that less than thirty years ago we held the future of the world in our hands and let it slip through our fingers.

BigmanPigman

(51,593 posts)
3. Reagan was the beginning of the current GOP philosophy...
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:00 PM
Nov 2017

trickle down economics, conspicuous consumption, no more unions, moral majority and the ever popular response "I DON'T REMEMBER" defense.

 

Twitler

(86 posts)
4. It is more complicated than that.
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:04 PM
Nov 2017

We have not lost anything. None of the countries you listed matter to us, even if we did lose them. The bigger issues are closer to home, and they could cost us. Mass shootings, civil unrest, pollution, and theocratic/authoritarian tendencies are what could undo us. We need a better education system, better representatives, and criminal justice reform. We are the empire, Russia and China are just bitter and do not want to bow down, so they try to stir trouble.

PDittie

(8,322 posts)
5. "He successfully hacked our election system"
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:21 PM
Nov 2017

This is not accurate.

Last year, Homeland Security disclosed that 21 states' election systems had been targeted by Russian hackers. There was no evidence they actually penetrated the systems. Experts likened the activity to a burglar jiggling a doorknob to see if it is locked.


http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Local-voting-districts-seen-as-crucial-to-12331682.php

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
8. China is the big winner.
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:52 PM
Nov 2017

Nations will believe a managed capitalist economy coupled with an authoritarian political system is superior to liberal democracy. Russia is a big gas station that has nothing to off the world but brute power.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
9. #2 is wrong.
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 08:59 PM
Nov 2017

#9 is wrong.

#10 is merely stating what Putin said. I disagree with the rest.

One of the strengths of the U.S. is that our leaders are temporary. Don't make the mistake of thinking that whatever Trump does is permanent. As we have seen, what one President does, another can undo (up to a point).

If Trump stays in power, the damage will be great. Hopefully, he won't be in power that long.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
10. I know this is trite, but the primary requirement for our recovery is simple integrity.
Sun Nov 5, 2017, 09:41 PM
Nov 2017

You know: honesty and a genuine concern for the welfare off our fellow man, no matter what race, color or religion he or she may be. We have to be honest with each other and with ourselves. We have to be honest when it is inconvenient, when it's embarrassing and, yes, even when it isn't profitable. We must revive what Lincoln called our "better angels" and follow their lead in matters of how we live with each other.

I have no illusions that it will be easy, but I also believe we could restore our global leadership position much sooner than many think possible---wihin a decade if we wake up and "stay woke".

dreamland

(964 posts)
11. We are losing ground on leadership
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:54 AM
Nov 2017

Don't forget.... The pullout from the Paris accord, the talks of leaving the WTO, and reducing our presence in the U.N. is leaving us behind other nations. America's global leadership is weakening day by day.

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