The probability that we see reality as it is is zero

[Binkie The Clown]

[Nitram]

1. Then the probability that you actually wrote this and that I read it is zero.

The probability that you exist is zero. The probability that you have any idea what you're talking about is zero. Anyone who believes that we cannot see reality as it is must also believe that communication about reality is impossible. How could we discuss or theorize about something that we can't see?

[Binkie The Clown]

2. You are correct on all counts. nt

[Hortensis]

25. Let's at least intersubjectively agree to pretend that the text

in this thread "proves" we're not talking to ourselves.

Thanks, Binky. Interesting data compresson codes. Large group social interactions causing brains to shrink might explain a lot that goes on on DU, if it were real.

[Orrex]

17. In addition:

We already have a word for a simulation that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality. It is called reality.

[Nitram]

19. And we have two words for that, and they are "Bull Shit"

AKA, double-talk, gobbledegook, baloney, and gibberish.

[Orrex]

23. Well, no

Two things that are utterly indistinguishable from one another are the same thing. I would be interested to hear your argument to the contrary.

A simulation that is utterly indistinguishable from reality is reality. I would be interested to hear your argument to the contrary.

And if you're going to posit some silly "there is no reality" nonsense, I'll stop by your residence tomorrow to help myself to all of your stuff.

[Nitram]

28. Your argument is exactly the same as the one for the existence of God.

I would really like to hear you argument to the contrary. In both cases, there is zero evidence for the existence of either God or of a virtual reality. The fact that you can't prove a negative is not proof of the existence of something for which there is no positive evidence. Please join us in the real world at your earliest convenience!

[Orrex]

30. You realize that you're arguing my point for me, right?

My assertion is this: a simulation (a virtual reality) that is wholly indistinguishable from actual reality is actual reality.

Far from arguing that this is a virtual reality, I'm arguing that this is reality, nothing virtual about it.

I don't know how I could have been more clear on this point.

[Nitram]

32. Ok, never mind. I misunderstood you point and we agreed all along.

Go figure. We were saying the same thing all along, but from different directions

[Orrex]

33. HOW DARE YOU AGREE WITH ME!!!!!1!

[Nitram]

35. Don't worry, Orrex, I probably won't always agree with you.

[Orrex]

38. Whew!

[Takket]

21. does this mean the probability drumpf is president is 0??????????

If so, i am ALL ABOUT this theory!!!!!!!!

[Hortensis]

26. Absolutely! Maybe we could just re- data compression code

him as a little pile of dirt we could then just hallucinate out the door.

[Bucky]

3. But don't throw rocks at people's heads, just in case

Even the illusion of getting bonked in the head hurts like hell. Imaginary hell

[Nitram]

7. This virtual reality, "nothing is real" mentality sometimes leads to mass shootings.

Hey, if it's not real, what do we have to lose? Nihilism.

[matt819]

4. I gave up after about 4 minutes

What nonsense.

Educated people in 2017 recognize the difference between a symbolic representation of something and the reality of what the symbol represents, whether it's a biohazard warning sign or an icon on your computer desktop. Those same people acknowledge that the perception of cube in a 2-dimensional space is not the same as the "truth" of a 3D cube in a 2D space. I don't know where he's going with this, but the first few minutes did not rope me in.

[Orrex]

15. .

[MineralMan]

5. Almost 40 minutes of video?

Not a freaking chance. Why should I spend that much time watching this? Ain't happening unless you convince me that it's worth my time.

[Orrex]

9. Spoiler alert: Morgan Freeman is the killer

[MineralMan]

11. Well, everyone knows that...

[Jim__]

6. I'm not convinced that the evolutionary process doesn't care about intelligence.

He says evolution doesn't care, which, of course, is true because evolution is not about anything; but, I'm not at all convinced that intelligence doesn't convey a survival advantage. As a counter-argument to his claim, I would argue that humans are the most intelligent species on earth and I believe they are also dominant among multi-celled organisms.

Also, he argues that we are less intelligent than we were 20,000 years ago because our brains have shrunk by 10%. Then, toward the end, he goes on to argue that objects have no causal power. If objects have no causal power, how can the size of our brains be a measure of our intelligence?

It's an interesting video. You should post it somewhere besides General Discussion because it would probably get more discussion in a less active forum.

[Orrex]

8. The probability that anyone will voluntarily watch that entire 38 minute video is zero

[Binkie The Clown]

12. So don't watch it. I only posted it because I enjoyed it. All 38 minutes of it. nt

[Orrex]

13. Super!

Here's a brief analysis that I found quite useful.

[Binkie The Clown]

14. You're so smart! Wow. And clever, too. nt

[Orrex]

16. Yes, those are my crosses to bear

Somehow I persevere.

[Binkie The Clown]

18. And wise too! :) nt

[Nitram]

20. Pinkie, you are clearly easily amused.

You don't need to inflict that on the rest of us, do you?

[Binkie The Clown]

24. I found it thought-provoking. I guess some people don't want their thoughts provoked.

And if you don't want to watch it, then don't watch it, but let's not make an issue of my right to post something I find interesting.

On edit: I just occurred to me that while you are entitled to your opinion, and you are free to be critical of other DU members, "You don't need to inflict that on the rest of us, do you?" (unquote)

[Hortensis]

27. It was a nice expansion away from politics,

but I think I'm now feeling the shrinkage of my brain speeding up.

[Nitram]

36. Hey, Binkie, my thoughts are provoked every time I look out the window at the real world in my

backyard. I love to observe the forest, the birds and other wildlife that live there, the leaves brilliant colors right now. Just because I find your digital view of reality rather shallow and sophomoric doesn't mean I don't like to have my thoughts provoked. I'd just rather not waste my time on dead ends and circular reasoning. But, carry on, it's a free world even if its not digital.

[Binkie The Clown]

39. I understand.

Since an immersive simulation game is more engaging if you "forget" that it's a simulation while you play, your choice to "forget" is understandable. It makes your in-game experience more enjoyable for you.

[Nitram]

41. LOL!

Or perhaps you are totally delusional and imagine you are immersed in a simulation game because reality is too difficult for you to tolerate. It makes your in-reality experience enjoyable for you.

[Binkie The Clown]

42. LOL! That's a possibility too.

Or maybe our solar system is a tiny atom in a lump of coal in some giant's coal bin.

Wasn't there a Twilight Zone episode like that?

Ideas are like toys. They should be played with often.

[Nitram]

43. I remember coming up with that about 2:30 one morning after ingesting some clear light acid.

Everybody was, like, "Wow!"

[NCTraveler]

10. Its not possible to fully see something...

When the information required to do so is so great. It’s a part of life and helps to define each of us as individuals.

[EarthFirst]

22. If David Attenborough isnt narrating; Im out! n/t

[hunter]

29. The universe is very big. The human mind is very small.

We can see only a tiny, tiny distance beyond what evolution has equipped humans to perceive, even with our most powerful tools; gravity wave detectors, scanning electron microscopes, the math of quantum mechanics, and such.

I don't think we have to get mystical about any of it.

Personally, I experience some sort of existence on a spiritual plain, but the intersection of that with my mechanistic view of the universe is a simple arc, and not an especially long one. It's the mechanistic view, doing the math, doing the science, that fills most of my head.

[lindysalsagal]

31. Marking for later. We all interpret reality through senses

And they are famously unreliable.

[lindysalsagal]

34. Ok. I think I've got this: It's a warped perception of reality.

There are microwaves, even though we can't see them. So, our group "reality" does not include microwaves. Until we evolve to the point where we can manufacure microwavve ovens and warm up leftovers.

This is not really a discussion of what "is" or "isn't." It's really about how we all perceive things in our own way and therefore have independent realities.

A good example is the Bourne spy character. Because of the extreme spy training, that person lives in a totally different reality from most of us.To him, we don't really exist unless we're in his way or trying to kill him. He does not access society in the same way at all.

So, to a believer, god is real. To an atheist, there is no god. Different realities. Relativism.

It's the old story of my dog barking when a doorbell rings on the TV. Dogs and cats can hear for miles: Totally different reality.

I think this is an acceptance of the fact that we're all running around in our own warped reality.

To an ant, there is no president.

[panader0]

37. This is an apple:

[Binkie The Clown]

40. Ah, but "There is no spoon."

Of course, since we don't eat apples with spoons, none of that matters.



(Seems like a lot of people are taking this way more seriously than it deserves. It's mental play. It's meant to be fun. If it's a game you don't enjoy, then don't play it.)