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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer.
When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.
But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles Americas fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?
Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.
These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.
The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.
Read the article at:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)Of school.silly.
malaise
(269,041 posts)The more guns, the more deaths by guns
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Cattledog
(5,915 posts)You really need to read the entire article.
"Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people.Yemen has the worlds second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States."
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)"The more guns, the more deaths by guns"
Don't see the words "mass shooting" in that sentence.
brush
(53,784 posts)Cattledog
(5,915 posts)EX500rider
(10,849 posts).....gun ownership by country Vs homicide rates per country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
AllyCat
(16,189 posts)That could be anyone.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)And the Wiki pages also list the source. Kinda hard to fudge the data when you do that and not be noticed.
What is exactly is the argument here, that the US has less firearms then they say or more homicides?
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)That correlation would appear to hold.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)US homicide rate per 100,000:4.8
European homicide rate per 100,00:3
Yet the US gun ownership is much greater per capita.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Can you cherry pick a few EU states that have a lower rate? Yes but you can do that for the US also, Maine's rate is 1.7 and is bigger then Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)Only works because you include Russia, which has a murder rate of 11.31 and a large population. It accounts for two thirds of the murders in what is nominally referred to as "Europe".
Several former Soviet states also have rates above 2 per 100,000 (with only Lithuania higher than the US). Outside of these, there are two countries, Albania (2.28) and Montenegro (2.72), with rates of greater than 2 per 100,000. Then there are only two more above 1.6/100,000 - Belgium (1.98) and Bulgaria (1.80).
The countries that make up the bulk of European population generally have rates below 1/100,000, less than a fifth of the US.
0.85 Germany
0.66 Spain
0.92 UK
0.78 Italy
0.74 Poland
0.51 Austria
0.69 Switzerland
0.85 Greece
1.58 France - The violent place in (non-former Soviet) Europe, less than a third of the homicide rate of the US.
brush
(53,784 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,608 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Yes, we have a lot of guns in our society, but they are in the hands of fewer and fewer Americans.
Only about 30-35% of households nationally have firearms according to self-reports (granted which may be due to underreporting).
Almost all of these mass shooters are using only 1 - 3 guns to commit their crimes (the LV shooting is a notable exception). Having 10, 30, 100 ARs isn't relevant to mass shootings.
If its true that mass shootings are increasing and gun ownership rates are decreasing, then the NYT is full of shit.
Something else is going on.
brush
(53,784 posts)from which the mass killers come.
Guns get used by those who have them. Here it's often for mass killings.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)...and that's why we've seen a so many mass killings?
Other than the fact they end up killing more than 4 people at a time, what else defines them that didn't exist in the past?
Actually, guns are rarely used for mass killings, but most mass killers use guns.
brush
(53,784 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)brush
(53,784 posts)aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)But here you go:
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brush
(53,784 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:37 PM - Edit history (2)
Millions of those guns being semi automatic/full automatic with large capacity magazines so by any logic that
means some of those millions of guns end up in the hands of people who shouldn't have themthus more
mass killing with guns by those who shouldn't have them.
After all these mass killings here with no action taken on gun control, all we have to do is compare our country's non-action to Australia's decisive action to get rid of so many guns in it's society in the late '90s and it's subsequent sharp decline of gun deaths/mass killings.
It's painfully clear that we have way too many guns in our society with little control over who has/gets access to them.
Come on, automatic weapons and semi-automatic easily converted to full automatic easily accessed by who knows who or when or where that is beyond insanity.
Our society is sick and too many make excuses for continuing with this insanity with just thoughts and prayers instead of taking effective action like Australia, a society very similar to ours, did.
Yavin4
(35,441 posts)which then leads to mass shootings. End of story.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)easy access to guns, socioeconomic inequality, lack of good health care, money in politics, stupid U.S. Citizen immature attitude of "we're #1" and a whole lot of Republicans... that's my explanation for U.S. Mass Shootings
Kingofalldems
(38,458 posts)Initech
(100,080 posts)Duncan Grant
(8,264 posts)As an outsider to gun culture, I struggle to understand what motivates people to spend their money on the things. Is it prestige? masculinity? collectibility? necessity? What kind of marketing is necessary to sell the things?
My hunch is - people who buy automatic weapons (or their variants) fantasize about the idea of eventually using them (for situations other than target practice). A really creepy hobby, imho.
Bucky
(54,020 posts)Lots of families and ordinary friends bond over hunting. We can have these things and still not have mass murders.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)People will say that it's fun to hunt or target shoot, but so what? A lot of things are "fun". Why is someone's right to have fun more important than the rights of others to live in a society where we don't have almost weekly mass shootings?
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I think some people must be very afraid. The possibility that someone would want to hurt or kill me is not something I think about. Aside from the fact that I have the safety of white skin, I have never been in a situation or environment where I saw other people as a threat.
I can see where experience would shape expectations. At the same time I fear is widely and cynically used to manipulate people in the US. I see that as unhealthy.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)For instance, does Mexico have less mass killings than the US?
I doubt it.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-mexicos-2016-murder-tally-exceeds-those-of-many-countries-at-war-study-2017-5
klook
(12,155 posts)The article referenced in the OP is about mass shootings. There are a great many murders by firearm in Mexico, but neither article indicates that the likelihood of mass shootings in Mexico is anywhere near what it is in the U.S.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)The US has about 17k homicides a year for a vastly larger population.
Figure that even if the percentage of those being mass anything is similar, that Mexico has the higher number. Simple math.
klook
(12,155 posts)is the topic. How do you propose to reduce the incidence of mass shootings in the U.S.?
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)I define a mass shooting as shooting at 2 or more people. And I believe that the stats are wrong if they rank US at the top,
klook
(12,155 posts)FBI defines mass shooting as 4 or more indiscriminately selected victims, not including the perpetrator. You can look it up.
If your beef is with the author of the study quoted in the OP, you could try refuting that research, I suppose.
But if you dont even want to discuss how to prevent mass shootings in the United States, maybe youre in the wrong thread.
And Ive spent way too much energy already addressing your attempted distractions. So good night.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)Skittles
(153,169 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)We have the dumbest fucking bunch of idiots in the world. Yeah that's it.