General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStevieM
(10,500 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,608 posts)in the US in two years?
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I think they would answer "well, we didn't worry about that. We just went out and got it done!"
Take heart. We won't eliminate misogyny.....but we can elect a woman president.
adigal
(7,581 posts)with that.
Cause I would much rather have had Bernie or Joe Biden than Trump!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I know many men who voted for her. Our real problem (as I see it) is the goddamn Electoral College. But the way things are going for the voters, men and women, who voted for Trump, I think we'll get many of these back. The hard care deplorables will always be there. But Trump is doing our work for us with all his crazy warmongering and trying to cut their health care. His supporter base is shrinking fast and he's only in less than a year...
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)when is this ever going to be done, weren't the states voting on this to eliminate. Geez, so much stupid red tape.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Lordy me.
We need a few good white guys until we are ready.
OK.
adigal
(7,581 posts)couldn't win and part of that was that she was a woman....then too bad. Those are the facts. We are still a deeply sexist country.
I deal in facts. Not fantasies that Americans are suddenly going to be so enlightened that not only will they vote in a woman, but a woman of color, like Kamala Harris. I would love if we did, but that isn't in the immediate future.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)And we need to win
delisen
(6,044 posts)Germany and other countries have been able to make good use of female talent. Merkel is a no bs, low key.low glamour, equalitarian genius.
I don't think the voting public defeated Hillary Clinton. I think defeat came at the hands of Putin. He's going to want American male candidates who will do his bidding.
I think survival is going to require making the cosmic leap to full equality.
At this point running more male candidates is just digging the hole deeper.
I've grown tired of being the other, the distaff, Adam's rib.
If we don't succeed now, its only going to become less possible as time goes on and our children are the ones who will suffer.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)We should be actively encouraging our up and coming female leaders, not sitting around moping and saying how terrible it is. Why do we allow misogyny to win by throwing our hands up and saying "It's no use!"
Good lord, women...
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)don't you feel like yelling out, grow the fuck up!!!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)LeftInTX
(25,366 posts)Merkel is elected in a manner similar to Speaker of the House.
Like a Prime Minister the party in power is the one who votes for their leader.
Being elected by one's peers makes it all about competence and not about glam and rock star appeal.
IronLionZion
(45,450 posts)and African countries and European and many others that didn't let it stop them.
We didn't eliminate racism before electing Obama. Our party elected a socialist in a wheelchair (FDR) and kept reelecting him to 4 terms.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)We need someone who will stand FOR an inclusive platform, is not beholden to corporations, and is not weighed down with a ton of baggage to explain.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)that anybody with a (D) after their name and who has more on his or her "record" than an elementary school detention is going to get ripped with a mega cruise ship full of misinformation, fake news, distortions, slanders and lies that will be repeated ad naseum on Fox News, Limbaugh, One America, Twitter, Facebook and elsewhere.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)They could never make anything stick with Obama because he truly was pretty much squeaky clean.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)with a certain percentage of the Tea Party types. I mean, it wasn't until 2016 that Trump grudgingly gave up on the Birther issue that had propelled him to the lead of the GOP pack in late 2015 and early 2016. And, all the attacks on Obama made it into the news and forced him to play defense much of the time.
However, Obama was a charismatic speaker and had a good team of rapid response people behind him so managed to endure the attacks. The same with Bill Clinton back in the 1990s - he was also attacked mercilessly, but because he was a great speaker and had a good team of rapid response people, he was able to weather the storms. Hillary Clinton may have been eminently qualified to be president, but she does not speak with the same effortless charm and charisma that her husband did and Obama does.
However, the attacks also stuck enough to both Obama and Bill Clinton that Republican turnout was inspired in the midterms and Democrats lost an historic amount of seats in 1994 and 2010 and 2014.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts).
delisen
(6,044 posts)I don't think either they or their team were prepared for what was going to happen to them
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Only one could be. Lessons from the past.
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)especially President Obama because of that stupid Repig obstructionist namely McConnell.
GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)and
and
and
he had a right wing independent funneling off:
12% of the GOP vote in Louisiana
13% of the GOP vote in Georgia
10% of the GOP vote in Tennessee
21% of the GOP vote in Missouri
13% of the GOP vote in Kentucky
15% of the GOP vote in West Virginia
18% of the GOP vote in Iowa
23% of the GOP vote in Minnesota
21% of the GOP vote in Wisconsin
19% of the GOP vote in Michigan
20% of the GOP vote in Ohio
. . .
(Aside: It is somewhat ironic that Jill Stein's 2% takes the blame for our 2016 loss instead of the abject failure of the "play to the middle" strategy to EVER pull majorities in key battleground states, whereas Perot's 1000% better performance is not even given an asterisk in our 1992 victory.)
Bill Clinton is hailed as a master politician and his play to the middle campaign has been called the secret to victory.
The FACT is that he won ONLY because the GOP could not keep Ross Perot in the fold AND the "play to the middle" strategy has put us in the pit we are in now.
Obviously I am glad that Perot gave us those elections, BUT to credit a campaign that would have failed if not for Perot as an example of "political genius" is going just a bit too far.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)The bench is not deep.
It is deep.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Cf. 11/7/17 baby!!
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)You were simply asked to back it up. Who is on the bench? Who should be on the ticket that can win in 2020?
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Harris, Warren, Booker, Castrox2, Ellison, Gabbard, Holder, Patrick.
More?
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)But I haven't seen any talk of Holder running, Gabbard and Ellison don't have a realistic chance and I would say only Warren is one who would head the ticket. The others could be excellent choices for the No. 2 spot.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)I am sure there are more...maybe even some who won yesterday (for example, Ravi Bhalla, a Sikh man, who was elected mayor of Hoboken, NJ!).
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Would it be great to get all of the above? Absolutely. But at this point, whoever can cause the most damage to the RePutin party will be my candidate.
kcr
(15,317 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Candidates should be vetted and they should have well defined platforms. A person of any demographic with those qualities is welcome in my book.
kcr
(15,317 posts)What is so scary about wanting a woman candidate that brings that out? Do you honestly think that there aren't any women who would qualify? If not, then you should have no problem with women candidates. Seriously, ask yourself what drives you to counter the desire for women candidates with this argument. The only reason we've only had male Presidents isn't due to a lack of qualified women. If there is no push to move women candidates forward, the status quo continues. Resist the urge to fight it simply because we've always had men.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)👍
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I would love to have a woman president. But, I would rather have a male candidate whose personal history does not invite legitimate concerns and has a record of supporting progressive policies in favor of woman candidate who has a history of white collar crime and or supporting anti choice policies.
I hope a woman steps up. And one who has a strong record of living up to high ethical standards on things that really matter and a long record of supporting liberal policies. I'm just saying that my priority is to have a candidate whose history indicates that they can win and will govern in a way that supports my political preferences and values.
kcr
(15,317 posts)That's my point. In stating that your priority is high standards, you're implying you can't have both. The truth is there's no reason we can't have both. In fact, we must if we're ever going to break the all-men streak. So, you may not realize it, but effectively that's what you're saying.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)"Dems must run a woman" implies that gender is THE priority.
brooklynite
(94,591 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)If its a white male, then that white male gets my vote. If its a woman or a person of color, then that woman or person of color gets my vote. But I'm voting on the issues, not the demographic.
woodsprite
(11,916 posts)That used to make me so mad when my coworker said she owed her vote to the female, even though her beliefs lay more with what the male said. I wanted to slap her silly because that's no better than the people that voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary.
MurrayDelph
(5,299 posts)was that the presence (or absence) of a vagina was insufficient reason to vote for (or against) a candidate.
Now, if Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris ran, I'd gladly support either of them.
elleng
(130,964 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:14 PM - Edit history (1)
Yes, it would be nice. I am a strong and proud feminist from way back. But if I feel that a white male would be better for the country, or be able to win, I will vote for him over a woman or person of color who I don't feel is as good.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And the woman or POC in respect to your feelings.
"But if a white male feels like he would be better for the country, or be able to win, I will vote for him over a woman or person of color who I don't feel is as good."
adigal
(7,581 posts)Don't try to Freud me. It was nothing more than careless typing.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Seems I was highlighting careless typing which is what I suspected in the first place. I made no assumptions. A simple thanks would have been ok. Didn't mean to offend.
delisen
(6,044 posts)leap past the patriarchal model. it's out of date, it can't meed met our needs-but we are clinging to it.the more we cling, the more miserable our lives will become.
The male savior hero model is dead. It's full equality and democracy now or it's going to be authoritarianism.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)There will be no country left.
I feel it is like triage. We have to go with the safest bet for candidate. It may not be exciting, sexy, or thrilling, but we must win!! We can't put someone forth just to try to get a "first."
samnsara
(17,622 posts)DFW
(54,403 posts)And not start adding or eliminating people based on race or gender.
I care about character, not demographics. Person leaning towards Kamala Harris. But not because she's female or of a particular ethnicity (which I can't ever remember anyway)
OnDoutside
(19,960 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)you can be sure the repugs won't.
DFW
(54,403 posts)I didn't find either one inferior to the candidate from the other side.
If the best we have to offer next time are women or POC or gay (or any combination), by all means, we should choose them. If not, then not. None of that should be the deciding factor.
Just ask Howard Dean. He and Hillary are busy out there trying to recruit bright, capable, dynamic Democrats to run for office. They want to help the smartest and the best. Gender, race, orientation? Don't bother emphasizing any of that, no one cares. How good are you and will you work your ass off to get elected, and then work your ass off once in office? THAT'S what we care about. That's what they care about. That's all anyone should care about, not some form of political affirmative action. If we don't get Democrats elected, there won't be any affirmative action, just negative action. If you ask the Trumpadors to dig up a supporter who's a gay black woman, I'm sure they've got one in cold storage somewhere just waiting to thawed out for the right PC moment.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)just a question of "will we Dems back them up." I just voted for a female POC to remain the mayor of New Haven and for a male POC for my alderperson. I wish to hell we had more on the state/federal level. But there are other problems, too. One is the Electoral College. HRC won the popular vote and what we got is the most disastrously unqualified president this country has ever had. I think yes, we need sharper strategies running our campaigns and making sure we are maximizing our chances for EC victory.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Im trying to say
Completely.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Ok, too, soon??
Bucky
(54,020 posts)Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs is a critical Swing Vote now
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)not sure about it now, after she's been "thrown under the bus" and run over multiple times.
mcar
(42,334 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)I think that's just one of several reasons, as a strong woman and powerful advocate, she was given the DNC job in the first place. Basically, all I was really tryin to say.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Then she's pretty much up shit creek. The buffoon who claimed she was going to change the duly elected nominee doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on reality.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)reaching a final conclusion. If she truly screwed up, as others here have already concluded, hell, I'll even volunteer to drive the frickin' "bus"!!
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)F'd up.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)There is no way to do the calculations on a 2020 ticket till then. As a POC I dont like the idea of a tokenism ticket. Obama wasnt nominated because he was black but because he was and is an insanely talented politician.
Using any other metric other than talent is insane when climate change is in the balance. We need to win not prove a point.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)it's fair to speculate.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)I'm only voting for a transgender native American who is left handed. Period!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Then the party voters will decide.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)That election system and the Electoral College are antiquated, unfair, and anti-democratic... they both need to go!!
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)It is representation of our party and base. It is also representation of historically excluded demographics.
spanone
(135,844 posts)Bucky
(54,020 posts)Better check that priv, spanone!
spanone
(135,844 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)we need to rescue ourselves and our country.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Are you not one of them? Do you have the ear of those "Dems?"
We'll begin to see potential candidates emerge after the 2018 elections. Who will come out on top remains to be seen. Who will even try remains to be seen. I know, though, that my opinion will not have anything to do with it. Will yours?
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)along with Bernie, Elizabeth, and Kamala. I think it likely will be one of them who captures the nomination.
Michelle O. also would have to be taken seriously, if she through her hat into the ring, as would Maxine Waters or Tulsi Gabbard, though neither of these amazing women, to my knowledge, has yet to express any interest in running for President in 2020. (Fingers crossed.)
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)he is not a young man either.
But if someone even suggest that Hillary runs again (I know she won't), heads explode.
Why the double standard?
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Clinton had her shot at the general and I don't think she WANTS to go through that again.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)the point is the reaction both suggestions get.
Joe had his shot three times already. Being a widely liked Vice President doesn't remove all the baggage he has, which was probably the reason he never became the nominee in the first place.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)And if you think Biden has even a fraction of the political baggage Hillary Clinton has, then you should probably just stop discussing Democratic party politics, because thats absurd. And I LIKE Hillary Clinton, but truth is truth.
In 1988, Biden wasn't ready. In 2008, there was no beating Obama. In 2020 though, if he runs for the nomination, I will likely support him.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Make me laugh when brogressives love him up. Yeah, he penis is a requirement for many.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)1988 and 2008. If he runs in 2020 it's number 3.
In theory, he passed on his "right" as the sitting VP to be the presumptive party nominee in 2016.
delisen
(6,044 posts)Hillary can't be president! she voted for the Iraq War Resolution! Of course, so did Joseph Biden and John Kerry but they are wooed
for the presidency.
they are the familiar- 45 men have held the office-no woman. So there is no equality in the public sphere. Just maybe its time to take a hard look at where suppression of the majority of our population has gotten us.
Misogyny on the Left is defeating us; it was all too easy for the Russian propaganda machine to infiltrate -to push those buttons that don't want women as equals in the public space.
What that does is create a macho atmosphere in our governing And that hurts hurt our children.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I believe she would be excellent at governing. But the campaigning part was never her forte.
delisen
(6,044 posts)I think she was an adequate candidate. I think she was targeted by Putin because of her strength and her foreign policy experience. I think the Russian propaganda and spy machine ws successful in using Americans -including the left-prejudices against us.
We are in an undeclared war, and the left has been particularly slow to accept that fact.
They tried to bury the truth in their instant analysis stating the day after election-----but drip drip drip, the truth is emerging.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)( the "Three B's" ) who have "the gift" of bringin' the house down every time when, off the top of their head, they can eloquently relate their vision of the future. Most of those who can't, that doesn't make them a terrible campaigner at all.
In fact, I would say, to Hillary's great credit, she got better and better at it, as the campaign wore on. No doubt, she would start at a considerable advantage in that department should she decide to make a third run ( yes, I know she said she's run her last campaign... just sayin' "IF" ).
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)I guess he has "small man syndrome".
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)see McConnell get his just desserts when he shut her up on the floor of Congress, that was horrible.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)at abbreviations MCP?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)just had a little memory slip!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)and as long as there are people believing that Hillary beong a woman had nothing with her defeat, we'll keep on losing
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)We were in the midst of a then popular war and running against a guy that still had some really good poll numbers. Most of the Dems I knew, even many who opposed the Iraq War, supported him because they hoped that running a decorated combat veteran would help us win the WH.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)heads explode all over the board
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)I can think of more than a few I would PREFER as the 2020 candidate, but no one MORE than Hillary deserves to try a third time, ESPECIALLY after how the last election was stolen by that "tRumpster fire" currently occupying the White House.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)mcar
(42,334 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)Please, can we deal in facts?? Not fantasies, like the GOPer do??
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Why so rude?! Should I compare YOU to GOPers, like you did me, cause, you know, that's what THEY do, smear?! Gimme a freakin' break!!
No wonder this place is so divided these days. Just keep it up... flame away!!
a kennedy
(29,672 posts)Joe Kennedy III and ANY woman mentioned above.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)If running a woman was the magic touch, Hillary would live in the White House
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)By 3 million votes
Bucky
(54,020 posts)sorry, but that's terribly offensive!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bucky
(54,020 posts)We must immediately form the circular firing squad and launch a witch hunt!!!
And by the way, the hearist saying "sure sounds like it" is highly offencive to deaf Americans.
Quit lording your auditory privilege over the sonically challenged
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)ollie10
(2,091 posts)But she LOST Michigan. She LOST WI. She LOST PA. Three states that were certainly winnable and she LOST them.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Moral victories aren't worth much in politics.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Bucky
(54,020 posts)And no taller than 5'3". I'm tired of this country being ruined by tall people. We must have a short, left handed woman of color, and she can only have A negative blood. O positive people have created all the troubles in this country. Enough is enough!!
MichMary
(1,714 posts)left handed presidents, most recently PBO. Out of 45 presidents that means lefties have been disproportionately represented.
But, yeah, I'm 5'3" and I would really like to see more short people in positions of power.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)And demonstrate what we stand for, the Dems must run a woman or POC on its Presidential ticket in20.
Surely there are the best people for the job among potential candidates.
This is the only way oppressed and underrepresented people will truly have access to the operations of power.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Don't tell Bobby Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, many others who worked with POC to get rights for all.
They started it. We dropped the ball.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)Depends what the situation is and who is the best fit...
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)There is too much at stake to have a litmus test beyond potential to win.
delisen
(6,044 posts)achieving after winning.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)I'll still be voting the same way if it's a Biden/Sanders ticket.
janterry
(4,429 posts)strength, and vision.
And they should know how to communicate that across the country.
A woman who can do that would be great, but she OR he must rise to those requirements, first.
Persondem
(1,936 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)Repigs are notorious for stealing elections, the whole voting process needs a overhaul, and all people have the right to vote.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)If that's a woman or POC then great. If it's a white guy then that's also fine.
Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)I dont know how that fits into this conversation.
But, that number still makes me sick.
I still dont understand.
jalan48
(13,870 posts)rainin
(3,011 posts)Can you even imagine the energy on election day? Lines will be miles long!
delisen
(6,044 posts)to learn she was Republican voter right up into the 90s -even after Newt Gingrich's contract with America.
She does speak out against Trump and is able to command attention from media.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Luciferous
(6,081 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Luciferous
(6,081 posts)us we HAVE to "run a woman" is very democratic!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)by the voters through a democratic primary process.
WoonTars
(694 posts)I don't care if they're a polka-doted asexual giant, i hope the Dems find and run the best candidate for the country...
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... everyone else can kiss my ass. (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)
Response to NurseJackie (Reply #84)
Post removed
meadowlander
(4,397 posts)Which means Im supporting the best candidate regardless of genitals or skin colour.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Whatever that takes. I would love to see a female president or another minority president, but we can't limit ourselves. We need a leader and I don't think it can be determined only by certain external criteria.
tinrobot
(10,903 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)that would be interesting. We need someone who will talk the talk and walk and walk either a man or woman. And who knows how to talk!!!! and not tweet.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Many of the swing voters are idiots. No use being smart with them. Limit the automatic biases.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)be quiet, let the white male take the reins...
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)For those who have reputations to protect--at very best--it's used to suggest that the extremely broad and diverse coalition of Americans in the Democratic Party is just a bunch of selfish infighting groups.
Replace noble with ignoble. Admirable with far from. Inspiring with dispiriting.
See how it works?
Of course, for the "Make America White Again" crowd it's just plain old racist dog whistle. And, of course, for much of the first group as well.
Probably shouldn't use it here.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Maybe the person who gets the most support in the Primaries should be nominated.
I that is one of them AWESOME!
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Cause that is the way it works.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)Young (under 45)
NCDem777
(458 posts)cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)In todays successful candidates!!
George II
(67,782 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)no matter what sex or color...
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)We the people - not the 'Party' need to select the best person for the job that 'applies' for it.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)kentuck
(111,101 posts)We should be cautious and deliberate in our choice of candidate.
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)correct and not desperate.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and make such a presidential ticket more likely.
cilla4progress
(24,736 posts)IronLionZion
(45,450 posts)Dem voters should choose the best candidate in the primaries/caucuses
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)The red head has the fire.
nini
(16,672 posts)Sex, Age, Religion etc. doesn't matter.
Their ability to the job comes first.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Cause that's how we do it.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Trusted by Clinton and Sanders supporters-backs economic justice and is solidly anti-social oppression.
A Warren-Harris ticket would be unbeatable.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The Upper Midwest would be a lock again, and she'd be both acceptable to everybody and representative of a new generation.