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Dems must run a woman (Original Post) cilla4progress Nov 2017 OP
How about Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto as our vice-presidential nominee? (eom) StevieM Nov 2017 #1
How are you going to eliminate misogyny BigmanPigman Nov 2017 #2
I wish some of the suffragists could speak to us now. CTyankee Nov 2017 #4
I don't think so. We will lose...again. If we need a few good white guys untiil we are ready, I'm OK adigal Nov 2017 #8
I'm OK with it too. My husband was an eager supporter of Hillary Clinton. CTyankee Nov 2017 #13
the electoral college must go bdamomma Nov 2017 #142
I can only imagine if someone had posted this in reference to Obama. cwydro Nov 2017 #87
I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but if the most competent person to run in the last 20 years adigal Nov 2017 #116
I disagree. nt cwydro Nov 2017 #135
After what happened the last year, I don't see a woman winning any time soon lunamagica Nov 2017 #36
We're not going to eliminate it by running men. delisen Nov 2017 #60
Of course, there are women leaders all over the world. We just lag behind. CTyankee Nov 2017 #79
we are really lagging behind. bdamomma Nov 2017 #145
all my life... CTyankee Nov 2017 #157
I believe the difference between Merkel and the US president is how they are elected LeftInTX Nov 2017 #125
Islamic countries in South Asia have elected women leaders IronLionZion Nov 2017 #169
Putting demographic ahead of practical considerations is not smart loyalsister Nov 2017 #3
we also have to realize NewJeffCT Nov 2017 #12
I'm talking about situations that are legitimate loyalsister Nov 2017 #16
A lot of it stuck to Obama NewJeffCT Nov 2017 #27
Not enough for a single serious investigation loyalsister Nov 2017 #32
Both B Clinton and B Obama had a hard time getting things done. delisen Nov 2017 #51
Only one was mercilessly investigated loyalsister Nov 2017 #54
hard time getting things done bdamomma Nov 2017 #144
Because Bill Clinton was a good speaker and . . . GaryCnf Nov 2017 #83
The implication here is that cilla4progress Nov 2017 #21
Who is on the deep bench? SharonClark Nov 2017 #103
Try a google search cilla4progress Nov 2017 #143
You made the claim Bradshaw3 Nov 2017 #152
Ok I'll play, to start, cilla4progress Nov 2017 #156
All good people Bradshaw3 Nov 2017 #163
Yep! cilla4progress Nov 2017 #164
Exactly! Policy and genuine heart ahead of demographics. lagomorph777 Nov 2017 #25
Oh, well. Guess you're right then. Women are out /sarcasm kcr Nov 2017 #42
I'm just saying the issues and character should come first loyalsister Nov 2017 #57
But why even say that? kcr Nov 2017 #138
A-yup cilla4progress Nov 2017 #146
I did not say that I don't want a woman candidate loyalsister Nov 2017 #161
Do you think that isn't the priority of those who want women candidates? kcr Nov 2017 #167
I was responding to the OP loyalsister Nov 2017 #174
With a compelling argument like that, who could disagree? brooklynite Nov 2017 #5
I will vote (in the primaries) for whoever gets my heart on the issues. phleshdef Nov 2017 #6
I'm with you! woodsprite Nov 2017 #7
The way I phrased it, when faced with the same argument, MurrayDelph Nov 2017 #133
because most/many voters chose their preferred candidate based on elleng Nov 2017 #9
I don't think we will win, and I don't vote based on someone's sex adigal Nov 2017 #10
You reference the white male in respect to his feelings. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #24
That was a typo....If I felt a white male would be better for the country. Simple mistake. adigal Nov 2017 #44
I pointed something out. There was no Freud to it. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #47
I think for our times-now! we have to delisen Nov 2017 #63
Yes! cilla4progress Nov 2017 #70
Sure, you and I can jump past it, and we will lose again. We can't afford to lose in 2020. adigal Nov 2017 #114
yessss! samnsara Nov 2017 #11
We should look for the BEST person/people DFW Nov 2017 #14
Thank you Bucky Nov 2017 #17
Yes, this. OnDoutside Nov 2017 #38
But we can groom our best and brightest women and POC's. If we don't do it CTyankee Nov 2017 #81
Don't our two last candidates for president count (for example)? DFW Nov 2017 #85
We've got the best and the brightest women and POCs in our party already. It is CTyankee Nov 2017 #89
What cilla4progress Nov 2017 #95
I agree. cwydro Nov 2017 #88
Or both. Donna Brazile. Roland99 Nov 2017 #15
You joke, but she could dig into Trump's lunatic base Bucky Nov 2017 #18
At one time, DB could have made a formidable candidate... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #33
Seems to me she threw herself under the bus mcar Nov 2017 #99
And no evidence she"d make a formitable candidate. SharonClark Nov 2017 #104
She sure as hell could hold her own in a debate on issues... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #109
Only until the fact checks start mythology Nov 2017 #162
Sure looks like the wording of the actual agreement checked out. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #168
You may be right, but I'd like to at least first read DB's version of what happened before InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #106
She flat out lied, then retracted the lie. She should be talking to her ghost writers, not Fox news Wwcd Nov 2017 #153
We need to win 2018 big b4 anything else Exultant Democracy Nov 2017 #19
Can't argue with you there... but, since the OP did raise the subject... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #111
Nope ProudLib72 Nov 2017 #20
I'm sure our primary will have both. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #22
Now THERE'S a concept!! Let's start with dumping (not-so-)super delegates!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #30
It is not tokenism cilla4progress Nov 2017 #23
i suggest we run the best candidate we can offer up...man, woman of any color. spanone Nov 2017 #26
Seriously? Only the two cisgender options? Bucky Nov 2017 #39
checking into rehab.....now spanone Nov 2017 #49
true, we need to clean out the swamp!! bdamomma Nov 2017 #147
Better start spreading the word to those "Dems," as you call them. MineralMan Nov 2017 #28
So no Joe? Not Ruth Nov 2017 #29
I think Joe has to be right up there in the first tier of potential 2020 candidates... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #40
I don't get it, Joe has ran what, 3 times? Never getting the nomination lunamagica Nov 2017 #62
Biden never ran after having been a widely liked Vice President before. phleshdef Nov 2017 #64
That's not the point. And I also said that Hillaary won't be running again lunamagica Nov 2017 #66
You need to get your facts straight. He ran twice. phleshdef Nov 2017 #71
The way he treated Anita Hill has never been forgotten. That and his banister credit card friends... bettyellen Nov 2017 #177
Everyone has fucked up. phleshdef Nov 2017 #184
Twice RhodeIslandOne Nov 2017 #101
It is the double standard that is defeating us. delisen Nov 2017 #69
Hillary Clinton is terrible at campaigning. It has nothing to do with being a woman. phleshdef Nov 2017 #72
Terrible is kind of strong. delisen Nov 2017 #75
You're right, "terrible" IS strong & untrue. Its just that there are few like Barrack, Bill & Bernie InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #105
Hillary was targeted by Putin bdamomma Nov 2017 #148
Can you imagine Elizabeth on the campaign trail?!?! I think she would be excellent at it!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #98
I would love to bdamomma Nov 2017 #149
Typical MCP!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #158
I'm horrible bdamomma Nov 2017 #165
I was referring to McConnell as a Male Chauvinist Pig... typical of most Rethugs!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #166
thanks for that bdamomma Nov 2017 #171
ICAM. Those are pure facts. It's amazing how some still deny or ignore those facts. lunamagica Nov 2017 #80
As for John Kerry in 2004 Jake Stern Nov 2017 #180
Hillary's welcome to run again... Joe hasn't run since being VP (experience being the difference) InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #97
Hillary is welcome to run again? Whenever someoe dares to suggest that lunamagica Nov 2017 #108
Not sayin' you're wrong, but that's a ridiculous reaction by those opposed... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #110
+1 lunamagica Nov 2017 #113
Good question mcar Nov 2017 #100
Michelle hates politics. She did her share for the country adigal Nov 2017 #117
Yes, go ahead, smear me for daring to suggest Michelle O would make a great Presidential candidate. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #121
Not that Joe, but Joe Kennedy...... a kennedy Nov 2017 #172
Must? Isn't that a bit strong? ollie10 Nov 2017 #31
She won cilla4progress Nov 2017 #34
Oh my God, are you implying our 1st woman nominee lost cause she couldn't read a map? Bucky Nov 2017 #37
Hmmm... sure sounds like it. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #41
This problem is out of hand! There's only one solution!! Bucky Nov 2017 #45
hahaha... you got me on that one! (No offense to those without a sense of humor.) InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #46
As offensive as Comey comments. delisen Nov 2017 #73
I am aware of that. ollie10 Nov 2017 #67
She "won"... nothing zipplewrath Nov 2017 #68
The election was stolen from her lunamagica Nov 2017 #82
And she must be left handed! No more Righties in the WH! Bucky Nov 2017 #35
We have had eight MichMary Nov 2017 #43
TAMMY DUCKWORTH! She's all of the above, including a great candidate. Squinch Nov 2017 #48
I love Tammy ...yes please. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #173
In order to fully represent an excluded constituency cilla4progress Nov 2017 #50
That is ridiculous, I'm sorry. You are saying only women and POC can open doors for those like them adigal Nov 2017 #115
Maybe... maybe not... Baconator Nov 2017 #52
We need to run someone who will win. I don't care what it takes to get a win. SweetieD Nov 2017 #53
Someone who will win and can't be blocked from delisen Nov 2017 #93
At this point, I'd vote for a Sequoya if it got the nomination. Pope George Ringo II Nov 2017 #55
We should run someone who conveys honesty janterry Nov 2017 #56
No we should run the best candidate possible who can beat the R guy. nt Persondem Nov 2017 #58
but remember bdamomma Nov 2017 #151
Run the best person Kentonio Nov 2017 #59
53% of white women voted for Donald Trump Funtatlaguy Nov 2017 #61
Why? jalan48 Nov 2017 #65
Michelle Obama / Elizabeth Warren 2020 rainin Nov 2017 #74
Warren fell for the "rigged" bs. Fascinated delisen Nov 2017 #92
Sally Yates. panader0 Nov 2017 #76
How about running the best candidate regardless of sex or race? Luciferous Nov 2017 #77
How about letting democracy work? InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #123
How is it not letting democracy work to have the best candidate? I don't think telling Luciferous Nov 2017 #126
That's my point, exactly! The "best" candidate is the one duly elected... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #132
Nope. WoonTars Nov 2017 #78
Hillary 2020 NurseJackie Nov 2017 #84
I'd be all for that if she wants to run! lunamagica Nov 2017 #86
I still have my Hillary T-shirt, and the stickers are still on my car! cwydro Nov 2017 #90
I will go for that. Otherwise, I might be writing in a Democrat. leftofcool Nov 2017 #107
I only vote for loyal party-supporting Democrats... NurseJackie Nov 2017 #119
Post removed Post removed Nov 2017 #118
Sorry, Im a feminist meadowlander Nov 2017 #91
I agree. We need someone who can win. smirkymonkey Nov 2017 #129
Biden / Harris tinrobot Nov 2017 #94
hmm.... bdamomma Nov 2017 #154
I'd prefer a strong charismatic white male who is at least 6-2 Awsi Dooger Nov 2017 #96
You bein' serious?!... 6-4+ is MUCH preferable. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #122
Yep, that is exactly what has been used against women candidates for ages... CTyankee Nov 2017 #136
Why? What is your reason for stating that? SharonClark Nov 2017 #102
How about the best candidate who can win, regardless of optics or identity politics? n/t X_Digger Nov 2017 #112
"Identity politics" is used as a big-time slur on Democrats. Hortensis Nov 2017 #137
I'm sure a woman and POC will run. alphafemale Nov 2017 #120
How about we run whoever wins our Primary? GulfCoast66 Nov 2017 #124
And cilla4progress Nov 2017 #127
I'd love to see Tammi Duckworth NCDem777 Nov 2017 #128
Really gratified to see the diversity cilla4progress Nov 2017 #130
What's your point? The Democrats "must" run the best candidate around, just like they did in 2016. George II Nov 2017 #131
I'm voting for the best person Raine Nov 2017 #134
I like Kamala!! bdamomma Nov 2017 #139
Nope JustAnotherGen Nov 2017 #140
I am not sure about that...perhaps we run whoever wins the primary. Demsrule86 Nov 2017 #141
Too early to say. kentuck Nov 2017 #150
cautious and deliberate bdamomma Nov 2017 #155
Dems must run MORE women and POC everywhere... Orsino Nov 2017 #159
THIS! cilla4progress Nov 2017 #160
Our party has plenty of great women and POC and whites and males IronLionZion Nov 2017 #170
Must? Egnever Nov 2017 #175
Harris-Kennedy Kennedy-Harris. Historic NY Nov 2017 #176
We need to run the most qualified person we have nini Nov 2017 #178
How about running a WINNER?! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2017 #179
I think the voters will choose. JNelson6563 Nov 2017 #181
Warren would probably be the best, if we're thinking in those terms. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #182
Tammy Baldwin would also be great. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #183

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
4. I wish some of the suffragists could speak to us now.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:00 PM
Nov 2017

I think they would answer "well, we didn't worry about that. We just went out and got it done!"

Take heart. We won't eliminate misogyny.....but we can elect a woman president.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
8. I don't think so. We will lose...again. If we need a few good white guys untiil we are ready, I'm OK
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:10 PM
Nov 2017

with that.
Cause I would much rather have had Bernie or Joe Biden than Trump!

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
13. I'm OK with it too. My husband was an eager supporter of Hillary Clinton.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:19 PM
Nov 2017

I know many men who voted for her. Our real problem (as I see it) is the goddamn Electoral College. But the way things are going for the voters, men and women, who voted for Trump, I think we'll get many of these back. The hard care deplorables will always be there. But Trump is doing our work for us with all his crazy warmongering and trying to cut their health care. His supporter base is shrinking fast and he's only in less than a year...

bdamomma

(63,868 posts)
142. the electoral college must go
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:10 AM
Nov 2017

when is this ever going to be done, weren't the states voting on this to eliminate. Geez, so much stupid red tape.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
87. I can only imagine if someone had posted this in reference to Obama.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:43 PM
Nov 2017

Lordy me.

“We need a few good white guys until we are ready.”

OK.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
116. I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but if the most competent person to run in the last 20 years
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:24 PM
Nov 2017

couldn't win and part of that was that she was a woman....then too bad. Those are the facts. We are still a deeply sexist country.

I deal in facts. Not fantasies that Americans are suddenly going to be so enlightened that not only will they vote in a woman, but a woman of color, like Kamala Harris. I would love if we did, but that isn't in the immediate future.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
60. We're not going to eliminate it by running men.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:41 PM
Nov 2017

Germany and other countries have been able to make good use of female talent. Merkel is a no bs, low key.low glamour, equalitarian genius.

I don't think the voting public defeated Hillary Clinton. I think defeat came at the hands of Putin. He's going to want American male candidates who will do his bidding.

I think survival is going to require making the cosmic leap to full equality.

At this point running more male candidates is just digging the hole deeper.

I've grown tired of being the other, the distaff, Adam's rib.

If we don't succeed now, its only going to become less possible as time goes on and our children are the ones who will suffer.



CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
79. Of course, there are women leaders all over the world. We just lag behind.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:17 PM
Nov 2017

We should be actively encouraging our up and coming female leaders, not sitting around moping and saying how terrible it is. Why do we allow misogyny to win by throwing our hands up and saying "It's no use!"

Good lord, women...

LeftInTX

(25,366 posts)
125. I believe the difference between Merkel and the US president is how they are elected
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 10:26 PM
Nov 2017

Merkel is elected in a manner similar to Speaker of the House.
Like a Prime Minister the party in power is the one who votes for their leader.

Being elected by one's peers makes it all about competence and not about glam and rock star appeal.

IronLionZion

(45,450 posts)
169. Islamic countries in South Asia have elected women leaders
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 10:07 AM
Nov 2017

and African countries and European and many others that didn't let it stop them.

We didn't eliminate racism before electing Obama. Our party elected a socialist in a wheelchair (FDR) and kept reelecting him to 4 terms.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
3. Putting demographic ahead of practical considerations is not smart
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:00 PM
Nov 2017

We need someone who will stand FOR an inclusive platform, is not beholden to corporations, and is not weighed down with a ton of baggage to explain.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
12. we also have to realize
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:16 PM
Nov 2017

that anybody with a (D) after their name and who has more on his or her "record" than an elementary school detention is going to get ripped with a mega cruise ship full of misinformation, fake news, distortions, slanders and lies that will be repeated ad naseum on Fox News, Limbaugh, One America, Twitter, Facebook and elsewhere.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
16. I'm talking about situations that are legitimate
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:24 PM
Nov 2017

They could never make anything stick with Obama because he truly was pretty much squeaky clean.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
27. A lot of it stuck to Obama
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:43 PM
Nov 2017

with a certain percentage of the Tea Party types. I mean, it wasn't until 2016 that Trump grudgingly gave up on the Birther issue that had propelled him to the lead of the GOP pack in late 2015 and early 2016. And, all the attacks on Obama made it into the news and forced him to play defense much of the time.

However, Obama was a charismatic speaker and had a good team of rapid response people behind him so managed to endure the attacks. The same with Bill Clinton back in the 1990s - he was also attacked mercilessly, but because he was a great speaker and had a good team of rapid response people, he was able to weather the storms. Hillary Clinton may have been eminently qualified to be president, but she does not speak with the same effortless charm and charisma that her husband did and Obama does.

However, the attacks also stuck enough to both Obama and Bill Clinton that Republican turnout was inspired in the midterms and Democrats lost an historic amount of seats in 1994 and 2010 and 2014.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
51. Both B Clinton and B Obama had a hard time getting things done.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:27 PM
Nov 2017

I don't think either they or their team were prepared for what was going to happen to them

bdamomma

(63,868 posts)
144. hard time getting things done
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:15 AM
Nov 2017

especially President Obama because of that stupid Repig obstructionist namely McConnell.

 

GaryCnf

(1,399 posts)
83. Because Bill Clinton was a good speaker and . . .
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:36 PM
Nov 2017

and

and

and

he had a right wing independent funneling off:

12% of the GOP vote in Louisiana
13% of the GOP vote in Georgia
10% of the GOP vote in Tennessee
21% of the GOP vote in Missouri
13% of the GOP vote in Kentucky
15% of the GOP vote in West Virginia
18% of the GOP vote in Iowa
23% of the GOP vote in Minnesota
21% of the GOP vote in Wisconsin
19% of the GOP vote in Michigan
20% of the GOP vote in Ohio
. . .

(Aside: It is somewhat ironic that Jill Stein's 2% takes the blame for our 2016 loss instead of the abject failure of the "play to the middle" strategy to EVER pull majorities in key battleground states, whereas Perot's 1000% better performance is not even given an asterisk in our 1992 victory.)

Bill Clinton is hailed as a master politician and his play to the middle campaign has been called the secret to victory.

The FACT is that he won ONLY because the GOP could not keep Ross Perot in the fold AND the "play to the middle" strategy has put us in the pit we are in now.

Obviously I am glad that Perot gave us those elections, BUT to credit a campaign that would have failed if not for Perot as an example of "political genius" is going just a bit too far.

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
152. You made the claim
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:38 AM
Nov 2017

You were simply asked to back it up. Who is on the bench? Who should be on the ticket that can win in 2020?

Bradshaw3

(7,522 posts)
163. All good people
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 04:21 PM
Nov 2017

But I haven't seen any talk of Holder running, Gabbard and Ellison don't have a realistic chance and I would say only Warren is one who would head the ticket. The others could be excellent choices for the No. 2 spot.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
164. Yep!
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 04:34 PM
Nov 2017

I am sure there are more...maybe even some who won yesterday (for example, Ravi Bhalla, a Sikh man, who was elected mayor of Hoboken, NJ!).

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
25. Exactly! Policy and genuine heart ahead of demographics.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:43 PM
Nov 2017

Would it be great to get all of the above? Absolutely. But at this point, whoever can cause the most damage to the RePutin party will be my candidate.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
57. I'm just saying the issues and character should come first
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:33 PM
Nov 2017

Candidates should be vetted and they should have well defined platforms. A person of any demographic with those qualities is welcome in my book.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
138. But why even say that?
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:07 AM
Nov 2017

What is so scary about wanting a woman candidate that brings that out? Do you honestly think that there aren't any women who would qualify? If not, then you should have no problem with women candidates. Seriously, ask yourself what drives you to counter the desire for women candidates with this argument. The only reason we've only had male Presidents isn't due to a lack of qualified women. If there is no push to move women candidates forward, the status quo continues. Resist the urge to fight it simply because we've always had men.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
161. I did not say that I don't want a woman candidate
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 02:49 PM
Nov 2017

I would love to have a woman president. But, I would rather have a male candidate whose personal history does not invite legitimate concerns and has a record of supporting progressive policies in favor of woman candidate who has a history of white collar crime and or supporting anti choice policies.
I hope a woman steps up. And one who has a strong record of living up to high ethical standards on things that really matter and a long record of supporting liberal policies. I'm just saying that my priority is to have a candidate whose history indicates that they can win and will govern in a way that supports my political preferences and values.

kcr

(15,317 posts)
167. Do you think that isn't the priority of those who want women candidates?
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 09:33 AM
Nov 2017

That's my point. In stating that your priority is high standards, you're implying you can't have both. The truth is there's no reason we can't have both. In fact, we must if we're ever going to break the all-men streak. So, you may not realize it, but effectively that's what you're saying.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
6. I will vote (in the primaries) for whoever gets my heart on the issues.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:05 PM
Nov 2017

If its a white male, then that white male gets my vote. If its a woman or a person of color, then that woman or person of color gets my vote. But I'm voting on the issues, not the demographic.

woodsprite

(11,916 posts)
7. I'm with you!
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:08 PM
Nov 2017


That used to make me so mad when my coworker said she owed her vote to the female, even though her beliefs lay more with what the male said. I wanted to slap her silly because that's no better than the people that voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary.

MurrayDelph

(5,299 posts)
133. The way I phrased it, when faced with the same argument,
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 03:22 AM
Nov 2017

was that the presence (or absence) of a vagina was insufficient reason to vote for (or against) a candidate.

Now, if Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris ran, I'd gladly support either of them.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
10. I don't think we will win, and I don't vote based on someone's sex
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:11 PM
Nov 2017

Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes, it would be nice. I am a strong and proud feminist from way back. But if I feel that a white male would be better for the country, or be able to win, I will vote for him over a woman or person of color who I don't feel is as good.




 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
24. You reference the white male in respect to his feelings.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:43 PM
Nov 2017

And the woman or POC in respect to your feelings.

"But if a white male feels like he would be better for the country, or be able to win, I will vote for him over a woman or person of color who I don't feel is as good."

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
44. That was a typo....If I felt a white male would be better for the country. Simple mistake.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:12 PM
Nov 2017

Don't try to Freud me. It was nothing more than careless typing.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
47. I pointed something out. There was no Freud to it.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:17 PM
Nov 2017

Seems I was highlighting careless typing which is what I suspected in the first place. I made no assumptions. A simple thanks would have been ok. Didn't mean to offend.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
63. I think for our times-now! we have to
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:47 PM
Nov 2017

leap past the patriarchal model. it's out of date, it can't meed met our needs-but we are clinging to it.the more we cling, the more miserable our lives will become.

The male savior hero model is dead. It's full equality and democracy now or it's going to be authoritarianism.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
114. Sure, you and I can jump past it, and we will lose again. We can't afford to lose in 2020.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:20 PM
Nov 2017

There will be no country left.

I feel it is like triage. We have to go with the safest bet for candidate. It may not be exciting, sexy, or thrilling, but we must win!! We can't put someone forth just to try to get a "first."

DFW

(54,403 posts)
14. We should look for the BEST person/people
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:20 PM
Nov 2017

And not start adding or eliminating people based on race or gender.

Bucky

(54,020 posts)
17. Thank you
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:27 PM
Nov 2017

I care about character, not demographics. Person leaning towards Kamala Harris. But not because she's female or of a particular ethnicity (which I can't ever remember anyway)

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
81. But we can groom our best and brightest women and POC's. If we don't do it
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:21 PM
Nov 2017

you can be sure the repugs won't.

DFW

(54,403 posts)
85. Don't our two last candidates for president count (for example)?
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:40 PM
Nov 2017

I didn't find either one inferior to the candidate from the other side.

If the best we have to offer next time are women or POC or gay (or any combination), by all means, we should choose them. If not, then not. None of that should be the deciding factor.

Just ask Howard Dean. He and Hillary are busy out there trying to recruit bright, capable, dynamic Democrats to run for office. They want to help the smartest and the best. Gender, race, orientation? Don't bother emphasizing any of that, no one cares. How good are you and will you work your ass off to get elected, and then work your ass off once in office? THAT'S what we care about. That's what they care about. That's all anyone should care about, not some form of political affirmative action. If we don't get Democrats elected, there won't be any affirmative action, just negative action. If you ask the Trumpadors to dig up a supporter who's a gay black woman, I'm sure they've got one in cold storage somewhere just waiting to thawed out for the right PC moment.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
89. We've got the best and the brightest women and POCs in our party already. It is
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:48 PM
Nov 2017

just a question of "will we Dems back them up." I just voted for a female POC to remain the mayor of New Haven and for a male POC for my alderperson. I wish to hell we had more on the state/federal level. But there are other problems, too. One is the Electoral College. HRC won the popular vote and what we got is the most disastrously unqualified president this country has ever had. I think yes, we need sharper strategies running our campaigns and making sure we are maximizing our chances for EC victory.

Bucky

(54,020 posts)
18. You joke, but she could dig into Trump's lunatic base
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:29 PM
Nov 2017

Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs is a critical Swing Vote now

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
33. At one time, DB could have made a formidable candidate...
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:56 PM
Nov 2017

not sure about it now, after she's been "thrown under the bus" and run over multiple times.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
109. She sure as hell could hold her own in a debate on issues...
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:54 PM
Nov 2017

I think that's just one of several reasons, as a strong woman and powerful advocate, she was given the DNC job in the first place. Basically, all I was really tryin to say.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
162. Only until the fact checks start
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 03:24 PM
Nov 2017

Then she's pretty much up shit creek. The buffoon who claimed she was going to change the duly elected nominee doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on reality.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
106. You may be right, but I'd like to at least first read DB's version of what happened before
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:50 PM
Nov 2017

reaching a final conclusion. If she truly screwed up, as others here have already concluded, hell, I'll even volunteer to drive the frickin' "bus"!!

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
153. She flat out lied, then retracted the lie. She should be talking to her ghost writers, not Fox news
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:39 AM
Nov 2017

F'd up.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
19. We need to win 2018 big b4 anything else
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:33 PM
Nov 2017

There is no way to do the calculations on a 2020 ticket till then. As a POC I don’t like the idea of a tokenism ticket. Obama wasn’t nominated because he was black but because he was and is an insanely talented politician.

Using any other metric other than talent is insane when climate change is in the balance. We need to win not prove a point.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
30. Now THERE'S a concept!! Let's start with dumping (not-so-)super delegates!!
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:52 PM
Nov 2017

That election system and the Electoral College are antiquated, unfair, and anti-democratic... they both need to go!!

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
23. It is not tokenism
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:42 PM
Nov 2017

It is representation of our party and base. It is also representation of historically excluded “demographics.”

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
28. Better start spreading the word to those "Dems," as you call them.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:46 PM
Nov 2017

Are you not one of them? Do you have the ear of those "Dems?"

We'll begin to see potential candidates emerge after the 2018 elections. Who will come out on top remains to be seen. Who will even try remains to be seen. I know, though, that my opinion will not have anything to do with it. Will yours?

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
40. I think Joe has to be right up there in the first tier of potential 2020 candidates...
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:06 PM
Nov 2017

along with Bernie, Elizabeth, and Kamala. I think it likely will be one of them who captures the nomination.

Michelle O. also would have to be taken seriously, if she through her hat into the ring, as would Maxine Waters or Tulsi Gabbard, though neither of these amazing women, to my knowledge, has yet to express any interest in running for President in 2020. (Fingers crossed.)

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
62. I don't get it, Joe has ran what, 3 times? Never getting the nomination
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:43 PM
Nov 2017

he is not a young man either.

But if someone even suggest that Hillary runs again (I know she won't), heads explode.

Why the double standard?

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
64. Biden never ran after having been a widely liked Vice President before.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:50 PM
Nov 2017

Clinton had her shot at the general and I don't think she WANTS to go through that again.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
66. That's not the point. And I also said that Hillaary won't be running again
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:54 PM
Nov 2017

the point is the reaction both suggestions get.

Joe had his shot three times already. Being a widely liked Vice President doesn't remove all the baggage he has, which was probably the reason he never became the nominee in the first place.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
71. You need to get your facts straight. He ran twice.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:00 PM
Nov 2017

And if you think Biden has even a fraction of the political baggage Hillary Clinton has, then you should probably just stop discussing Democratic party politics, because thats absurd. And I LIKE Hillary Clinton, but truth is truth.

In 1988, Biden wasn't ready. In 2008, there was no beating Obama. In 2020 though, if he runs for the nomination, I will likely support him.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
177. The way he treated Anita Hill has never been forgotten. That and his banister credit card friends...
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:19 PM
Nov 2017

Make me laugh when brogressives love him up. Yeah, he penis is a requirement for many.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
101. Twice
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:34 PM
Nov 2017

1988 and 2008. If he runs in 2020 it's number 3.

In theory, he passed on his "right" as the sitting VP to be the presumptive party nominee in 2016.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
69. It is the double standard that is defeating us.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:59 PM
Nov 2017

Hillary can't be president! she voted for the Iraq War Resolution! Of course, so did Joseph Biden and John Kerry but they are wooed
for the presidency.

they are the familiar- 45 men have held the office-no woman. So there is no equality in the public sphere. Just maybe its time to take a hard look at where suppression of the majority of our population has gotten us.

Misogyny on the Left is defeating us; it was all too easy for the Russian propaganda machine to infiltrate -to push those buttons that don't want women as equals in the public space.

What that does is create a macho atmosphere in our governing And that hurts hurt our children.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
72. Hillary Clinton is terrible at campaigning. It has nothing to do with being a woman.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:01 PM
Nov 2017

I believe she would be excellent at governing. But the campaigning part was never her forte.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
75. Terrible is kind of strong.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:11 PM
Nov 2017

I think she was an adequate candidate. I think she was targeted by Putin because of her strength and her foreign policy experience. I think the Russian propaganda and spy machine ws successful in using Americans -including the left-prejudices against us.

We are in an undeclared war, and the left has been particularly slow to accept that fact.

They tried to bury the truth in their instant analysis stating the day after election-----but drip drip drip, the truth is emerging.


InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
105. You're right, "terrible" IS strong & untrue. Its just that there are few like Barrack, Bill & Bernie
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:44 PM
Nov 2017

( the "Three B's" ) who have "the gift" of bringin' the house down every time when, off the top of their head, they can eloquently relate their vision of the future. Most of those who can't, that doesn't make them a terrible campaigner at all.

In fact, I would say, to Hillary's great credit, she got better and better at it, as the campaign wore on. No doubt, she would start at a considerable advantage in that department should she decide to make a third run ( yes, I know she said she's run her last campaign... just sayin' "IF" ).

bdamomma

(63,868 posts)
149. I would love to
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:27 AM
Nov 2017

see McConnell get his just desserts when he shut her up on the floor of Congress, that was horrible.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
80. ICAM. Those are pure facts. It's amazing how some still deny or ignore those facts.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:19 PM
Nov 2017

and as long as there are people believing that Hillary beong a woman had nothing with her defeat, we'll keep on losing

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
180. As for John Kerry in 2004
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:29 PM
Nov 2017

We were in the midst of a then popular war and running against a guy that still had some really good poll numbers. Most of the Dems I knew, even many who opposed the Iraq War, supported him because they hoped that running a decorated combat veteran would help us win the WH.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
97. Hillary's welcome to run again... Joe hasn't run since being VP (experience being the difference)
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:23 PM
Nov 2017

Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
108. Hillary is welcome to run again? Whenever someoe dares to suggest that
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:54 PM
Nov 2017

heads explode all over the board

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
110. Not sayin' you're wrong, but that's a ridiculous reaction by those opposed...
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:59 PM
Nov 2017

I can think of more than a few I would PREFER as the 2020 candidate, but no one MORE than Hillary deserves to try a third time, ESPECIALLY after how the last election was stolen by that "tRumpster fire" currently occupying the White House.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
117. Michelle hates politics. She did her share for the country
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:28 PM
Nov 2017

Please, can we deal in facts?? Not fantasies, like the GOPer do??

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
121. Yes, go ahead, smear me for daring to suggest Michelle O would make a great Presidential candidate.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 09:52 PM
Nov 2017

Why so rude?! Should I compare YOU to GOPers, like you did me, cause, you know, that's what THEY do, smear?! Gimme a freakin' break!!

No wonder this place is so divided these days. Just keep it up... flame away!!

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
31. Must? Isn't that a bit strong?
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:54 PM
Nov 2017

If running a woman was the magic touch, Hillary would live in the White House

Bucky

(54,020 posts)
37. Oh my God, are you implying our 1st woman nominee lost cause she couldn't read a map?
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:59 PM
Nov 2017

sorry, but that's terribly offensive!

Bucky

(54,020 posts)
45. This problem is out of hand! There's only one solution!!
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:14 PM
Nov 2017

We must immediately form the circular firing squad and launch a witch hunt!!!

And by the way, the hearist saying "sure sounds like it" is highly offencive to deaf Americans.

Quit lording your auditory privilege over the sonically challenged

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
67. I am aware of that.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:56 PM
Nov 2017

But she LOST Michigan. She LOST WI. She LOST PA. Three states that were certainly winnable and she LOST them.



Bucky

(54,020 posts)
35. And she must be left handed! No more Righties in the WH!
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 04:57 PM
Nov 2017

And no taller than 5'3". I'm tired of this country being ruined by tall people. We must have a short, left handed woman of color, and she can only have A negative blood. O positive people have created all the troubles in this country. Enough is enough!!

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
43. We have had eight
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:12 PM
Nov 2017

left handed presidents, most recently PBO. Out of 45 presidents that means lefties have been disproportionately represented.

But, yeah, I'm 5'3" and I would really like to see more short people in positions of power.

cilla4progress

(24,736 posts)
50. In order to fully represent an excluded constituency
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:26 PM
Nov 2017

And demonstrate what we stand for, the Dems must run a woman or POC on its Presidential ticket in’20.

Surely there are the “best people for the job” among potential candidates.

This is the only way oppressed and underrepresented people will truly have access to the operations of power.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
115. That is ridiculous, I'm sorry. You are saying only women and POC can open doors for those like them
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:21 PM
Nov 2017

Don't tell Bobby Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, many others who worked with POC to get rights for all.

They started it. We dropped the ball.

SweetieD

(1,660 posts)
53. We need to run someone who will win. I don't care what it takes to get a win.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:29 PM
Nov 2017

There is too much at stake to have a litmus test beyond potential to win.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
55. At this point, I'd vote for a Sequoya if it got the nomination.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:29 PM
Nov 2017

I'll still be voting the same way if it's a Biden/Sanders ticket.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
56. We should run someone who conveys honesty
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:30 PM
Nov 2017

strength, and vision.
And they should know how to communicate that across the country.

A woman who can do that would be great, but she OR he must rise to those requirements, first.

bdamomma

(63,868 posts)
151. but remember
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:34 AM
Nov 2017

Repigs are notorious for stealing elections, the whole voting process needs a overhaul, and all people have the right to vote.

Funtatlaguy

(10,878 posts)
61. 53% of white women voted for Donald Trump
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 05:42 PM
Nov 2017

I don’t know how that fits into this conversation.
But, that number still makes me sick.
I still don’t understand.

rainin

(3,011 posts)
74. Michelle Obama / Elizabeth Warren 2020
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:05 PM
Nov 2017

Can you even imagine the energy on election day? Lines will be miles long!

delisen

(6,044 posts)
92. Warren fell for the "rigged" bs. Fascinated
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:00 PM
Nov 2017

to learn she was Republican voter right up into the 90s -even after Newt Gingrich's contract with America.

She does speak out against Trump and is able to command attention from media.

Luciferous

(6,081 posts)
126. How is it not letting democracy work to have the best candidate? I don't think telling
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 10:28 PM
Nov 2017

us we HAVE to "run a woman" is very democratic!

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
132. That's my point, exactly! The "best" candidate is the one duly elected...
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 01:28 AM
Nov 2017

by the voters through a democratic primary process.

WoonTars

(694 posts)
78. Nope.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 06:15 PM
Nov 2017

I don't care if they're a polka-doted asexual giant, i hope the Dems find and run the best candidate for the country...

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
119. I only vote for loyal party-supporting Democrats...
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:32 PM
Nov 2017

... everyone else can kiss my ass. (And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

Response to NurseJackie (Reply #84)

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
129. I agree. We need someone who can win.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 11:32 PM
Nov 2017

Whatever that takes. I would love to see a female president or another minority president, but we can't limit ourselves. We need a leader and I don't think it can be determined only by certain external criteria.

bdamomma

(63,868 posts)
154. hmm....
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:40 AM
Nov 2017

that would be interesting. We need someone who will talk the talk and walk and walk either a man or woman. And who knows how to talk!!!! and not tweet.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
96. I'd prefer a strong charismatic white male who is at least 6-2
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 07:22 PM
Nov 2017

Many of the swing voters are idiots. No use being smart with them. Limit the automatic biases.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
136. Yep, that is exactly what has been used against women candidates for ages...
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 10:28 AM
Nov 2017

be quiet, let the white male take the reins...

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
137. "Identity politics" is used as a big-time slur on Democrats.
Wed Nov 8, 2017, 11:06 AM
Nov 2017

For those who have reputations to protect--at very best--it's used to suggest that the extremely broad and diverse coalition of Americans in the Democratic Party is just a bunch of selfish infighting groups.

Replace noble with ignoble. Admirable with far from. Inspiring with dispiriting.

See how it works?

Of course, for the "Make America White Again" crowd it's just plain old racist dog whistle. And, of course, for much of the first group as well.

Probably shouldn't use it here.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
120. I'm sure a woman and POC will run.
Tue Nov 7, 2017, 08:40 PM
Nov 2017

Maybe the person who gets the most support in the Primaries should be nominated.

I that is one of them AWESOME!

IronLionZion

(45,450 posts)
170. Our party has plenty of great women and POC and whites and males
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 10:09 AM
Nov 2017

Dem voters should choose the best candidate in the primaries/caucuses

nini

(16,672 posts)
178. We need to run the most qualified person we have
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:22 PM
Nov 2017

Sex, Age, Religion etc. doesn't matter.

Their ability to the job comes first.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
182. Warren would probably be the best, if we're thinking in those terms.
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:34 PM
Nov 2017

Trusted by Clinton and Sanders supporters-backs economic justice and is solidly anti-social oppression.

A Warren-Harris ticket would be unbeatable.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
183. Tammy Baldwin would also be great.
Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:36 PM
Nov 2017

The Upper Midwest would be a lock again, and she'd be both acceptable to everybody and representative of a new generation.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Dems must run a woman