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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRoy Moore is not a pedophile
By Rachel Hope Cleves and Nicholas L. Syrett November 19 at 6:58 PM
Rachel Hope Cleves is a professor of history at the University of Victoria. Nicholas L. Syrett is a professor of women, gender and sexuality studies at the University of Kansas.
The hashtags #RoyMoorePedophile and #RoyMooreChildMolester have trended on Twitter over the past week. The New York Daily News ran a column that called Roy Moore an accused pedophile in its headline. In a live interview on MSNBC, Republican strategist Steve Schmidt said, Roy Moore is a pedophile. Hes a child molester.
The outrage against the Republican Senate candidate from Alabama is entirely fitting, but the terminology is not. Moore is not a pedophile. If you believe his accusers, as we do, he is a powerful man who has serially harassed and even assaulted teenage girls.
The difference matters. Moores alleged crime was not a sexual orientation toward children. It was his willingness to exploit the unequal power structures of gender and age to victimize young girls who couldnt stand up to him. To understand Moore as a monster outside medical or societal norms is to ignore the ways that his position enabled him to take advantage of his alleged victims. Much like the claims of sex addiction offered by other powerful men in recent weeks, accounting for sexual abuse with a diagnosis of pedophilia obscures the way that abusive behavior fits into our everyday sexual system that privileges powerful men to take advantage of the younger, the female and the less powerful.
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines pedophilic disorder as when an individual over 16 experiences recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger). As far as we know at present, the youngest girl whom Moore allegedly pursued was 14 years old. Other accusers were 16 or 17 years old when he approached them. These teenagers were not prepubescent children.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/roy-moore-is-not-a-pedophile/2017/11/19/1a9ae238-cb21-11e7-aa96-54417592cf72_story.html
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)But to the general population, it's unnecessary hair splitting.
He's a predatory creep no matter the clinical definitions.
rock
(13,218 posts)But you're absolutely correct as it stands!
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)What does the word "crazy" conjure in your mind? Words influence the way people think. One of the reasons that the word "liberal" became so toxic that liberal politicians in America were running from it, was that it was associated, on purpose, to negative connotations.
Moore is certainly deviant in his pursuit of adolescent girls and young women and there may certainly be some underlying psychological or even psychiatric processes that drive his behavior. What the authors are saying though, is that appropriating and misusing words can have unintended consequences.
Another example of the problems with the "hair splitting" argument: Moron, Imbecile, Idiot, and Retarded. All of these words were clinical terms used as diagnoses for people with intellectual disabilities (the new clinical term). All were co-opted by popular culture to denigrate people who make decisions or engage in actions that people consider unintelligent. The term "Mentally Retarded" was in use for decades but became so toxic that the individuals with disabilities and their supporters fought to have it changed...again. Unfortunately, I suspect that soon we will see the new clinical term being used as an insult toward people who make poor decisions and the cycle will continue.
The point is that Moore is disgusting. He used his power to harass, stock, proposition, and likely abuse young adolescents and very young women. It is deviant and should be socially unacceptable, but it is not pedophilia. If we cannot come up with sufficient terminology to describe our thoughts and feelings toward him and his actions without corrupting other words, then we expose a weakness in our culture.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)...and just in this case, I disagree. This isn't court and its not a psych conference
The words, in this case, are irrelevant details
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)I think that how we, and not just related to Roy Moore only, use words is important. It isn't about an explanation of his psychology or a legal matter, but about how society changes and erodes the meaning and effect of words.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)I just think this a bad example of that concern! Cheers!
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)SharonClark
(10,014 posts)It is only used for effect. Don't get me started about people who call teenage girls 'little girls'.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)because that's what he is (not a pedophile which has a specific definition). Just because the age of consent is 16 in AL, in the US, until you are 18, you cannot vote. That makes you a child, and not an adult as far as I'm concerned.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)He should be in jail.
H2O Man
(73,592 posts)for Moore's case is ephebphilia.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029829149
Blue_Adept
(6,400 posts)I find it incredibly frustrating that the wrong word is used because accuracy matters.
Denzil_DC
(7,255 posts)The article's technically correct, but it's pointless nitpicking.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts). . .creepy. Really though, we can parse the condition or proclivity all we want, and it doesn't change the actions or the consequences of an adult man acting this way.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)H2O Man
(73,592 posts)took out our electric, phone, and internet this weekend. Hence, I am only now consuming coffee, which I hope will be accepted -- though not endorsed -- as my failure to add the "o."
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)familiar with the term before today.
H2O Man
(73,592 posts)I always remember one of our psychologists speaking about this when we reviewed new cases in staff meetings.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)as an aside. This dude is one creepy ass gross motherfucker. The story about pulling the one girl out of class is disgusting in so many levels. Half this country has lost its damn mind!
Denzil_DC
(7,255 posts)Just go back and edit it if you want!
H2O Man
(73,592 posts)My ability to spell correctly is pretty poor on a good day.
LeftInTX
(25,515 posts)There are plenty of Roy Moore's out there. Moore may have been hanging around younger women because he was a creep. Once he got married, his behavior seems to have stopped. There is one allegation after he was married, but it seems it doesn't seem quite the same as the rest of the allegations.
I think he was looking for someone that he could control....to me that is the creepy part.
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)Just as "assault" is used by layman when the legal term is "battery."
Pedophile in the literal sense works just fine for me ... Greek for child lover, and child lover in our society is child molester or pedophile.
Technicalities are for criminal charges and sentencing. For social censure, pedophile works just fine. ... unless you feel that there is no legitimate social censure unless the behavior is criminal. Pretty low bar if that is the case.
Which reminds me of Roy Moore's love for the 10 commandments. I was raised in a Christian home. We considered the 10 Commandments a good start. Sermon on the Mount the gold standard.
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)Assault is the attempt, battery is when you make contact. If I swing at you with my fists, that is assault. If I hit you then it is assault and battery.
MaryMagdaline
(6,856 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,210 posts)That is someone attracted to adolescents. It is not considered a mental illness like pedophilia. Of course, unwanted touching and kissing of any person is, at the very least, sexual abuse or misconduct under Alabama law.
H2O Man
(73,592 posts)It is, without question, in the spectrum of (mental) sexual dysfunctions that frequently causes courts to refer some offenders to mental health treatment, and others to jail.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Let Roy Moore explain or excuse his actions; I decline to get into some kind of academic discussion over le mot juste for his sickness.
lame54
(35,315 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)molesting 14 year old children is a damn pedophile!
Why does Roy Moore get a special pass???
Orrex
(63,220 posts)Quibbling about the precise DSM definition of pedophilia will accomplish two things and two things only:
1. It will make Democrats look like idiots.
2. It will exonerate Moore, because society considers pedophilia the worst of all possible crimes. Demanding that we use a different term will allow Moore's apologists to say "I told you he wasn't a pedophile, and that's why he deserves my vote."
During the Lewinsky scandal I saw Bill Clinton condemned as a pedophile because, even though Lewinsky was a consenting adult, the drastic age difference made the situation "qualify" as pedophilia.
The same breed of Republican fuckhead who was happy to embrace that kind of bullshit is even happier to defend Moore now.
Let us undertake this academic bean-counting exercise after Moore loses the election.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
UCmeNdc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Faux pas
(14,690 posts)doesn't matter, the dirty deed does for crap sake.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And every ad we run against republican senators up for re-election in 18 should have them on the screen together. Tie him around their neck like a rotting chicken.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)And peel off independents and suburban female republicans.
Not every state with a republican Senator is as red as Alabama. Actually, none except perhaps Mississippi.
And I have not given up on Doug Jones. Just being realistic.