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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:40 PM Nov 2017

Bitcoin is not money. It's an unregulated commodity that gets traded for barter instead of money.

Bitcoin is a virtual product that takes time and effort to create. -> Mining.

Bitcoins get their value from two factors:
* The supply of Bitcoin is limited.
* If you convert your money into Bitcoin, you can make an untracable financial transaction and the recipient can convert the Bitcoin back into real money.
* Bitcoin can also be stored as an investment, like that rare collectors-item you keep in your drawer. Or that celebrity-pic you took with your Smartphone.



That's why people are willing to buy Bitcoins at all. (Financial speculation aside.) They need Bitcoins for these kinds of financial transactions.
More people want to make these transactions. -> More people need Bitcoins. -> Price goes up.
Fewer people are interested in these transactions. -> Less people need Bitcoins. -> Price goes down.





Imagine living in a pre-industrial world where the hot new technology is the ability to transfer money via carrier-pigeon from one bank-account to another. Untracable for the tax-collectors. Secure from bandits.

That is Bitcoin.

Everybody will breed and buy carrier-pigeons. The carrier-pigeon-industry will boom and eventually flatten once the market has consolidated and there is ample supply of carrier-pigeons for everybody. And then, one day, carrier-pigeons get replaced by the next big thing.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bitcoin is not money. It's an unregulated commodity that gets traded for barter instead of money. (Original Post) DetlefK Nov 2017 OP
But I found a whole bunch of Bitcoin just laying around in this box in my closet! Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #1
That's mopcoin, not bitcoin. Kablooie Nov 2017 #7
Excellent description. It's basically a currency for the unscrupulous. ffr Nov 2017 #2
Don't forget sex traffickers and international crimmal gangs. FSogol Nov 2017 #11
What will the next generation of bitcoin look like? NCTraveler Nov 2017 #3
There are other cryptocurrencies, but... DetlefK Nov 2017 #19
Thanks for the info. I'm not opposed to the general concept of cryptocurrencies. NCTraveler Nov 2017 #20
my impoverished but tech-savvy daughter bought a couple hundred dollars worth of bit coin and wiggs Nov 2017 #4
That's good for her, but she has to sell before the bubble bursts. DetlefK Nov 2017 #18
if she has not sold yet cvoogt Dec 2017 #22
Yeah, but you can still buy a bitchin' RAT that's completely FUD with it. Kablooie Nov 2017 #5
Bitcoin will be a facinating thing to watch for the next few years. WaitWut Nov 2017 #6
I'm pissed that its driven up the price of graphics cards. nt LexVegas Nov 2017 #8
I get the barter and conversion stuff but what's the 'mining' thing ? Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2017 #9
As I understand it... WaitWut Nov 2017 #10
But how can the supply be both "infinite" and (as the OP says) "limited?" Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2017 #13
It is limited. Flaleftist Nov 2017 #15
Bitcoin is not an infinite supply Orrex Nov 2017 #16
An investment, like those beanie babies in the back closet? Maeve Nov 2017 #12
Someone doesn't understand the adoption S-Curve MisterProton Nov 2017 #17
How I purchase elephant tusks and rhino horn is none of your damn business, thank you. Orrex Nov 2017 #14
Bitcoin's purpose is money-laundering Steven Maurer Nov 2017 #21
Spam deleted by MIR Team rayshow Oct 2019 #23

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
7. That's mopcoin, not bitcoin.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:05 PM
Nov 2017

and you can only buy tiny little squares of property with it and build houses only fit for ants.

Pheh!

ffr

(22,670 posts)
2. Excellent description. It's basically a currency for the unscrupulous.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:46 PM
Nov 2017

Thieves, killers, drug runners, organized crime, and the underhanded. In other words, perfect for the tRumpsters and the KGOP treasonweasels.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
3. What will the next generation of bitcoin look like?
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:50 PM
Nov 2017

It currently has so many negatives and is surrounded by so much propaganda that for the time being it will stay the currency of criminals and investors. By current design it furthers the divide between the rich and poor. It's a model that cannot move forward much further in it's current state in a transparent market.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
19. There are other cryptocurrencies, but...
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 01:46 PM
Nov 2017

but IIRC the differences are mainly in terms of how they get mined and how secure the money-transfer is.

An example would be Ethereum. Hailed as an improved version of Bitcoin.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
20. Thanks for the info. I'm not opposed to the general concept of cryptocurrencies.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 02:28 PM
Nov 2017

It seems to be a direction we are heading and once one seriously takes off and gains acceptance I fell it is something that could actually help to stabilize economies on the macro and micro level.

wiggs

(7,814 posts)
4. my impoverished but tech-savvy daughter bought a couple hundred dollars worth of bit coin and
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 01:52 PM
Nov 2017

it has quadrupled in a few months.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
18. That's good for her, but she has to sell before the bubble bursts.
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 01:40 PM
Nov 2017

In a normal market, the price of a Bitcoin would be determined by supply and demand. But right now the price is driven by speculators. People are buying Bitcoins for the sake of buying Bitcoins.

That's a bubble. And it's just a question of time until some incident accidently or some investor malevolently bursts that bubble.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
5. Yeah, but you can still buy a bitchin' RAT that's completely FUD with it.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:02 PM
Nov 2017

That's hacker talk.

RAT - Remote Access Trojan.
A program that is secretly installed to control a computer over the internet.

FUD - Fully UnDetectable by current computer security systems.

WaitWut

(71 posts)
6. Bitcoin will be a facinating thing to watch for the next few years.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:03 PM
Nov 2017

I would recommend reservation when trying to establish opinions on the future of crypto-currencies. I think that as we approach the automation age the role of a non-centralized currency for barter will become a global necessity. I am by no means an expert on crypto-currency but to watch this evolve from just a computer geek "what if" to a recognized commodity by the institutional investor is absolutely fascinating.

If I owned any, I would be developing an exit strategy, and if it pulls back enough I might be willing to speculate. But just to step back and say Bitcoin bad because bad people use Bitcoin is a little bit ignorant in my opinion.

But heck, I am just some old hippy on the internet...

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,837 posts)
9. I get the barter and conversion stuff but what's the 'mining' thing ?
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:15 PM
Nov 2017

'Mining' sounds like new bitcoins are being discovered and brought into circulation yet we're told the supply is 'limited.'

WaitWut

(71 posts)
10. As I understand it...
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 02:48 PM
Nov 2017

The bitcoins are "mined" by having a computer work a math problem. The more coins that are mined the more complex the math problem. So theoretically, you have an infinite supply of bitcoin, it is just going to take longer and longer to actually mine one coin. Now, this is really an over simplification of the process, but for my pea brain this is how I understand it.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,837 posts)
13. But how can the supply be both "infinite" and (as the OP says) "limited?"
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 03:42 PM
Nov 2017

Also, who wants those math problems solved?

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
15. It is limited.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 03:53 PM
Nov 2017

Only 21 million Bitcoins can be created. There have been about 16.7 million created so far. Due to all the coins lost by people when BTC wasn’t worth much, the amount in circulation is lower.

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
16. Bitcoin is not an infinite supply
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 03:54 PM
Nov 2017

It is limited to, I believe, 23 million, to be released according to some scheme in decreasing numbers over the next few decades.

You're correct about the "mining," and the whoever has the most super-duper computer gets a better chance at the periodic lottery.


It's some vague stand-in for a dubious analog of a shaky metaphor for money, to be sure.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)
12. An investment, like those beanie babies in the back closet?
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 03:12 PM
Nov 2017

Or, to use an even older example, those rare tulip bulbs?

I think we need a buble emoji here...

Orrex

(63,213 posts)
14. How I purchase elephant tusks and rhino horn is none of your damn business, thank you.
Wed Nov 29, 2017, 03:52 PM
Nov 2017

I love reading the pro-Bitcoin advocacy on here from all the advocates who clap their hands to show that they truly, truly believe in this mythical faux-money novelty.

When the bottom drops out, a few assholes are going to be made super-rich, and all the rest will be big sacks of nothing.

Steven Maurer

(459 posts)
21. Bitcoin's purpose is money-laundering
Thu Nov 30, 2017, 03:12 PM
Nov 2017

That's all it is. So if you want to support tax evasion and other crimes, buy it.

The bottom will drop out of the Bitcoin market when laws are passed to de-anonymize it.

Response to DetlefK (Original post)

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