Joy Reid goes below the belt, Jane Sanders responds

[PatsFan87]

I know a lot of people like Joy Reid on here, and she's done some solid work, but this was low, dirty, and beneath the dignity of a news reporter. Hopefully she apologizes for bringing Bernie's wife into some theory she has- and since she doesn't speak to or know the Sanders family on that level, I'm curious as to where she's getting her info from. This kind of crap is not helpful when we need to be unified for 2018.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[DangerousUrNot]

1. I hate the way she comes at anything that deals with Bernie.

What is her issue with him?

[BoneyardDem]

4. Joy can see through much bullshit on many topics.

[SoCalMusicLover]

50. So I'm Sure She Went After Hillary Too nt

[Demsrule86]

60. And of course someone has to bring Hillary into it...a red herring.

The primary is long over and so is the general.

[George II]

89. Not just a red herring but an OFFENSIVE red herring. I think a review of the TOS is in order.

[Demsrule86]

158. I don't disagree.

[George II]

87. You realize that you're on DEMOCRATIC Underground, and our last Presidential nominee was....

....Hillary Clinton?

Stuff like that belongs on Free Republic.

[ollie10]

97. In fairness, the issue was Joy's bias here

Whether she treated Hillary equally is a valid question

[Demsrule86]

159. No it is not because the primary is over and it doesn't matter.

It is not a valid question. You can disagree with what Joy said ( I don't) but the fact is it has nothing to do with Hillary...the idea of the 'two teams' came from the primary...and it is over...there no teams...only Democrats now. And your post and others like it are why I hope Sen. Sanders will not run in 20...we need to get back to electing leaders in the usual fashion and not consider elections to be a team sport.

[ollie10]

194. But.....Joy was attacking one of the DEMOCRATIC contenders.....

[Demsrule86]

200. I have no idea what you mean. I thought this was about Sen. Sanders who is an

independent. However, Hillary will not run so when she is brought up in this context...it is relitigating the primary...the two team bullshit. I have no interest and it is one of the reasons I hope Sanders doesn't run.

[ollie10]

244. So are you saying Joy's depiction of Sanders is good for Democrats?

[Demsrule86]

261. I saw him kind of push his wife away on the video ;I I thought it was not nice.He is not a Democrat.

so I don't think it reflects on Democrats. If I were his wife I would have walked off, gotten in the car and driven home...my hubs would never treat me this way! That is just my opinion...Joy had the right to comment and his wife certainly had the right to reply...so I don't get what the problem is..this is mild criticism. They will face way worse if he runs in 20.

[ollie10]

339. Wait a minute

By far the overwhelming majority of bernie viters voted for hillary in the general.

To imply we are morons is dividing our party. Please don't lower youself to a name caller.

[MojoWrkn]

266. I thought Bernie was a Socialist! When did he become a Democrat?

and don't tell me he's a democratic Socialist (whatever the heck that is!!) He didn't deserve the Party's support then and
he still doesn't and if he is the only candidate running against trump, then I'll stay home! He is TOO OLD! So is trump.

[ollie10]

278. Here is Trump on Bernie.....

Donald Trump has taken aim against a new Democratic Rival, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, calling the lawmaker a "maniac" and "socialist-slash-communist."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-calls-bernie-sanders-maniac-socialist-slash-communist/story?id=34484030

Are you a Trumper or a Democrat?

[Rene]

286. wrong sanders was never a democrat. they don't owe him a dime

if he can't join the Democrat party we don't need him drawing off resources

[ollie10]

289. So this discussion is about resources?....

....I thought it was about Joy's point

[LanternWaste]

299. It's either about the offense of resources or the defense of tin-gods and sacred cows.

It's either about the offense of resources or the defense of tin-gods and sacred cows.

Other than the consistency of common denominators, it's difficult to determine which...

[geardaddy]

332. Democrat party?

Don't you mean Democratic Party?

[chimpymustgo]

338. Oops. Your slip is showing. Just walk away, Rene...

[George II]

288. She wasn't "attacking" him, she was commenting on his attitude. And he's no longer a "contender".

[ollie10]

292. So if you are not a contender it is OK to take pot shots at him/her?

[yardwork]

195. No reason to go after Hillary.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

238. You're right... Hillary is beside the point. Still think Joy was being wholly unfair to Bernie.

[progressoid]

296. +1

[Dr. Strange]

347. Back in 2008, she referred to the "erratic gyrations of Hurricane Hillary"...

and suggested that Hillary might be insane. She also wondered if Hillary was becoming the candidate of white racists. So yeah, she's gone after Hillary.

[chwaliszewski]

327. Completely disagree with your backhanded dig at Bernie

and completely uncalled for. The Primary is over. Please stop it with stuff like this. Thank you.

[BoneyardDem]

328. this whole thread is a shit show..are you going to post this to everyone else you don't agree with?

...otherwise it would feel like a person attack. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one on this thread with this type of opinion about Joy

my post was specifically about Joy and not Bernie. your interpretation is a tad contrived and a poor attempt at making something from nothing.

[chwaliszewski]

335. Not at all a person [sic] attack...

as I was commenting on your comment and not you specifically. And no, I'm not going to post this to everyone else I don't agree with. Yours just happened to be the first comment that I interpreted as a dig at Bernie and felt it was not necessary. It may have been 'nothing' to you but to me it was something.

My interpretation was as follows: #1 I hate the way she comes at anything that deals with Bernie. What is her issue with him? [Your reply to #1] Joy can see through much bullshit on many topics. [Me] It sounds like #1 thinks Joy doesn't like Bernie and is attacking him unfairly but it sounds like you agree with what she did, which I happen to disagree with. I think she was wrong.

[BoneyardDem]

337. You were quick to claim my post was rehashing the Primaries....when it was all about Joy

You must surely know that rehashing the Primaries is a violation of the rules. Did you alert also?

Surely you read down thread when Joy had much negative to say about Hillary in 2008. Were you just as outraged then?

[chwaliszewski]

341. Have a nice day!

[PatsFan87]

8. Being so openly hostile toward someone undermines her ability to

be an unbiased reporter. It's a shame really since I think she's sharp and a good interviewer.

[eleny]

15. I don't recall Joy R asserting that she's an unbiased reporter

I've been watching her since she first started appearing on MSNBC. If she ever did declare that she's unbiased then I missed it. But I don't associate her with being unbiased so her tweet doesn't surprise me.

[PatsFan87]

39. There was a time when you didn't need to claim to be one, it was just assumed

that you were as part of your job description.

[eleny]

47. I was weaned on the Walter Cronkite era

But even then they weren't really unbiased. Back then they presented the news in a more serious fashion. But bias was there, nevertheless.

[Demsrule86]

59. She is not a reporter...and Cronkite was certainly not unbiased...his reports helped

end the Vietnam war.

[erronis]

93. So you are saying that reporting the facts is biased?

Cronkite and many others tried to get the information from many sources in front of the news.

It's a very sad day on DU and elsewhere when reporters/new anchors are considered biased because they reported on the atrocities of Vietnam (all administrations were guilty), corruption in the congress (both parties were guilty).

I'm wondering if there aren't some malevolent actors here that are trying to drive wedges in these conversations. I didn't know that robots (russian or others) were so clever.

But I guess I'll quickly discover that DU is only for the purists - I'm not sure of what persuasion but it's obviously not for a liberal viewpoint.

[Demsrule86]

155. Everyone has a bias. There is no way Cronkite and others of that time were unbiased...

As I stated everyone has a bias or a point of view...the unbiased reporter was always more myth than fact...Yellow journalism as a term was coined many many years ago.It does interest me that you think I am criticizing Cronkite or any reporter for that matter. He did the country a great service, but he wasn't unbiased. He went further than just the 'facts'. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you are honest about where you are coming from and don't lie like Fox. One always has to consider the source when evaluating any news reports.

Joy is not a reporter. She is supposed to have opinions. It is her job. I will ignore the nasty insults found in your post...and the veiled accusation that I and others who don't agree with you are 'robots (Russian or otherwise)'...DU is for anyone who wants to be here and to support Democrats. As for a liberal viewpoint. We are all liberals here...you will find that liberals/ progressives have a range of views. I am sorry you felt the need to lash out with your last 'DU is only for the purist but not for the liberal point of view' comment. I though it was really unnecessary bordering on rude. This is a great site and many here enjoy a healthy debate even with people who disagree.

[LanternWaste]

302. The pretense that one can absolve themselves of all bias is irrational.

The pretense that one can absolve themselves of all bias is irrational.

The pretense that that editorials using facts are unbiased is unreasonable.

The pretense that 'bias' is a pejorative rather than a human condition is myopic.



Those holding those pretenses would be, in my opinion, the purists of a non-liberal viewpoint you allege exist.

[Adrahil]

81. And it's bullshit.

NO ONE is unbiased. One should strive to be fair, but one can never be truly unbiased.

One problem with the media is that they pretend there is something like objectivity. All our viewpoints are subjective. We must understand that and account for it.

[Demsrule86]

160. Exactly, just be honest...tell people where you are coming from...and let them decide.

[George II]

108. If she was a reporter you'd be correct, but she's not a reporter. She doesn't recite news or...

...ferret out news stories on the beat, she's a political talk show host, aka "pundit".

[BoneyardDem]

143. What do tou suppose is in her job description, as MSNBC pundit?

[Me.]

42. Perhaps They Forget How Often She Had Nina Turner On To Talk Their Case

in fact, it often seemed she was in their camp. Glad she isn't. And as for his treatment of women...I remember him pushing his wife out of his way, waving his arm in front of a reporter's face and when she pushed his arm out of her face he shoved her arm back. As for those hideous essays, people hint at.....they don't speak well on his behalf.

[eleny]

56. I only recall the Maher appearance and found that distasteful

I've always like Sanders and keep out of most of the discussions about him and the Bernie vs HRC threads. Pushing his wife out of the way was a no-no regardless of how Jane feels about it.

But I desperately want a Dem in the White House above all else. I've come to resist expecting much even from the icons on our side of the aisle.

[Me.]

129. Yes I Feel The Same About A Dem In The WH

One gets a sense that 45 is going to end up in a puddle of drool. So the DEms need to be ready. But I want a real Dem and no one else. Perilous times these.

[eleny]

138. I agree with you about wanting a real Dem. It's not too much to expect. eom

[whathehell]

52. Being objective, "umbiased' is part of a reporter's job description

and while few if any reporers, being human, can achieve a total lack of bias, all are expected to try.

[eleny]

61. I don't view her as a reporter but rather a commentator like when she started appearing on MSNBC

The discussions with right wingers on her show are debates not fact finding endeavors.

I haven't watched every single weekend show but since I record them I'm able to catch practically every one of them. This is the basis of my assertions here.

[Demsrule86]

161. It has always been BS...and Cronkite and other went way beyond the 'fact' in their coverage of

Vietnam and thank God they did. Joy isn't a reporter anyway...she is a pundit.

[LanternWaste]

303. You appear to confuse 'journalist' and 'editiorialist.'

You appear to confuse 'journalist' and 'editiorialist.' Editorials are predicated on bias.

[brush]

92. Joy is on point. See post 21 on this thread of Sanders ordering his wife to move.

[George II]

98. Joy Reid is not a reporter, she's a political talk show host, and probably among the top...

....on MSNBC right now.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

239. As a pundit, Joy is allowed to be biased... and also WRONG, as she clearly is in this case.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. Don't understand it... it's gettin' tiresome.

[Demsrule86]

202. I know some here rush to Sen. Sander's defense as they expect him to run in 20 and he may...

hope not...we need to win and I think that endangers our chances...but I am curious. In this environment do you really believe a Sanders/ Warren ticket will win? I think we need a Sherrod Brown.

[Ken Burch]

184. She's probably convinced that HRC would have been elected

if ONLY she'd been given the nomination without challenge or even debate(ignoring the fact that HRC herself doesn't believe any such thing).

And I suspect she also believes that it's somehow going to GAIN the party votes to drive all the Sanders people away by 2020.

[Demsrule86]

204. Many folks feel that way...and the party took a hit too...which is why Sen. Sanders should not

run in 20...he won't win and will only cause division.

[Ken Burch]

325. I agree with you that he shouldn't run again.

But we do need his supporters and we do need to incorporate as many of the ideas his campaign was about(especially on economics) as possible if we are to be relevant.

At a bare minimum, the whole "he should never have been allowed in our primaries" thing needs to stop.

There were many flaws in Bernie's campaign, but he HAD to run in 2016.

There was a compelling need for an economic justice candidate.

The times called for it.

And his campaign was not a plot to wreck the party, nor is there any real evidence that Bernie's presence in the primaries made any meaningful difference for the worst in the general election result.

What his campaign fought for HAS to be part of where we go from here. We need to find the way to connect with voters who've been screwed economically in the post-1981 economy, and there's no reason that trying to connect with them would have to mean abandoning or betraying any of the voters in our base. A lot of the voters in our base were among the victims of the post-1981 economy, and it can only help them to incorporate the idea that, in a decent society human dignity, human value and human need should matter as much as profit for the few-that being on the losing end of corporate greed, being discarded because taking your job away makes the rich richer, is not AS bad as being a victim of racism, sexism, anti-LGBTQ prejudice or xenophobia, but it is a wound and it is a form of oppression.

We need ALL of the people who were drawn to different Dem primary candidates in 2016, and we need the ideas they were all drawn to(ok, with the exception of maybe the three people who backed Webb-we can probably take a pass on winning them over).

That's all I'm saying...it's time to get past the whole "it's YOUR fault!" thing and to move on to finding common ground and winning in '18 and '20.

[Demsrule86]

350. His supporters will either vote for us or not...there is not much we can do.

We live in a center left country. I hate it and so do Sanders supporters...but sometimes reality bites you in the ass...this is one of those times.

[Ken Burch]

373. I'm not even sure what "we live in a center left country" means.

But I doubt that it means that Democrats can ONLY win(or can win at all) but being a party that treats the left as the enemy.
Even with Hillary as nominee, we could have brought most of those kids in(and lost no one else in doing so)by doing at least ONE of these two things:

1) Putting the specific "No TPP" pledge into the platform...or if not that, at least making sure that Terry McAuliffe didn't get on live tv during the convention saying he thought that agreement might be put through despite the "no bad trade deals" language that was in place...or if neither of those things had been done, by allowing Sanders delegates to do what they originally wanted to do in response and just stand their silently during Hillary's acceptance speech holdinng "No TPP" signs, rather than arrogantly confiscating those signs and forbidding them to make new ones, which is what led to the "No TPP" chants the MSM claimed were "No Hillary" chants. It was the heavy-handedness displayed on THAT issue that cost us probably a million votes, without gaining any anywhere else to make up for those, and that heavy-handedness was not something any one person was to blame for...it was the paranoid "we have to stick it to the Left to win" attitude that the party has had as an institution ever since 1972, when we had a landslide defeat due to Nixon's dirty tricks that was misinterpreted as a vote against progressive policies.

2) If we couldn't do any of that, we could have run a fall campaign for the Clinton-Kaine ticket that emphasized the platform, and the progressive parts of Hillary's political history, in the campaign ads-rather than focusing on what we already knew was a futile strategy of focusing on attack ads about Trump-Trump was a scumbag, but the Repubilcan primaries had already proved that he couldn't ever be beaten by attack ads.

We needed the Sanders people. Other than the verbal aggression some displayed(and if we're talking Russian interference, it's likely most of the online 'bros, including the "Stockholm Syndrome" idiot, were Putin-paid trolls)most of them were and are good people with high ideals-exactly the kind of people we needed and need. What do we have to lose by reaching out to ", by saying "ok, we won't let you RUN the party, but we will incorporate a lot of what you want and give you the chance within our structures to work for all of what you want"? Why not choose an inclusion that includes THEM? What have we got to lose?

[Blue_Tires]

264. If Bernie's camp can't even handle JoyAnn Reid

how the hell would they handle the full scrutiny of the media as a presumptive presidential nominee?

Remember, in 2020 there won't be any Clintons to conveniently bash and make him look good by comparison... He'll be standing on his own.

[George II]

284. I don't think that's correct, she was a Sanders supporter up until the convention.

[progressoid]

300. Bwaaaaahahahaha! You missed your turn.

[Kahuna7]

287. This maybe?

Link to tweet

[BoneyardDem]

2. Joy did not hit below the belt....everything was factual

Jane's response seems hostile and petty. That seems more typical

[PatsFan87]

6. Would you provide us the facts then on how Bernie dismisses women

including his wife?

[BoneyardDem]

21. just one example

thrre are plenty of other if you would care to just open your eyes and do your own research...you could start with some essays

[tblue37]

24. I think he was worried that he might accidentally hit her as he gestured while speaking. nt

[PatsFan87]

45. That was my thinking as well. He famously flails his arms while giving speeches.

And people take the essay quote out of context. If you read the essay, Bernie is criticizing harmful gender roles in the 1970s. Did he do so in a dumb way? Sure. Does it show he's anti-women? No.

Bernie has a 100% pro-women voting record as scored by Planned Parenthood, Gloria Steinem once called him an "honorary woman", he likes endorsing progressive women of color (Pramila Jayapal & Nanette Barragan are now U.S. reps who beat Dem. challengers, he has endorsed Stacey Abrams for governor of GA). For Joy to try to smear him as anti-women when he's an advocate and there are way bigger anti-women fights we need to be putting our energy towards right now, is just stupid.

[Fred Sanders]

57. Mind reading from brief video clips only, even if of poor quality or sound, is an internet passion

that is as irrational as it is useful to get attention. Any kind will do!

[grantcart]

127. And there were 30 ways he could have done that with grace.

It was dismissive in public, probably not revealing his true feelings for his wife but when you run for President being able to conduct yourself in such situations is part of the routine and he put his wife in an awkward position.

[Tipperary]

43. Oh my. Thats not a good look there.

How hurtful to his wife. You can see how bewildered she looks for a minute or so.

[lunamagica]

123. She looks bewildered and embarrassed. It's quite clear.

[The Wielding Truth]

172. Judging her reaction form that tiny clip does not prove anything.

[Demsrule86]

206. It does to me...this is one of the reasons I am not a Sanders supporter for the presidency in 20.

I will not vote for him in a primary. I will of course vote for whoever wins the nomination in the General.

[The Wielding Truth]

167. Looks like she was uncertain were to go and he said. "Don't stand there".

If you didn't know him and thought that he was being dismissive, then you are reading this exchange with bias.

[bettyellen]

63. Telling firemen "set aside abortion" and calling it "identity politics...."

I'm also pretty certain he doesn't know or care to about the demographics of the poorest in America. He preaches to the middle and upper class youth.

[CentralMass]

78. That is demonstrably untrue. Sanders has a life longrecord on supporting womens rights and fighting

poverty.
Bernie has a 100% rating from NARAL and strong record of supporting womens rights. Including reproductive right, equal pay. Fighting for paid maternity etc.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-womens-rights/

He also has fought against poverty his entire career and the are many many onstances of him talking about it.

http://time.com/4291699/bernie-sanders-poverty-poor-rhetoric/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

105. Can't believe this is even debatable.

[democrank]

121. Thanks, CentralMass.

Every so often, truth manages to wind its way through the swamp of Bernie Sanders hatred so enjoyed by some of the "Real Democrats" here.

[bettyellen]

142. He was quoted, so no. It's true. He fucked up, big time. Women knew they weren't a priority long

Before he talked about PlanedParenthood in disparaging terms. He might have "meant well" but he has no idea the damage he does to orgs like Planned Parenthood and many women noticed.

[Wwcd]

145. Not lifelong at all. That is a serious misstatement.

Unless his lifelong work began well after age 30.
i.e." Rape Fantasies".
Geez could he have called that essay anything but that pathetic title!
Was that the main point of his writings?
Rape Fantasy?

Senator Sanders, i want you to know that rape is not a fantasy. EVER!

Calling b.s. on this overused statement:
"life longrecord on supporting womens rights ".

His words, his writings, his ideas.
He owns this.

[The Wielding Truth]

173. Yes. I respect his work and from his history I see nothing against women.

[Demsrule86]

207. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have a different opinion. Do you understand a large

chunk of the Democratic Party will not vote for Sen. Sanders in a 20 priimary?

[MrsCoffee]

203. Then why cant he use his VOICE the way he uses his vote?

His words are angry and dismissive. He uses his VOICE to bash the Democratic Party. He uses his VOICE to dismiss “identity politics”. He used his VOICE to support anti-choice candidates. He uses his VOICE to drone out negative and divisive messages. Using his VOICE in such a way has consequences.

This is Sanders biggest problem and he and his adoring fans just don’t get it. They don’t even see or hear it. Instead we hear about his voting record and how he caucuses with Democrats. To them, his divisive attacks and dismissiveness are somehow merely innocent criticisms and a quirky speaking style, while criticisms of him are somehow COMPLETELY crossing the line.

Bernie is his own worst enemy.

[Demsrule86]

209. They hear it, but choose to focus on his 'record'.

[The Wielding Truth]

170. He has been fighting his whole life for the disadvantaged. Look at his

life. I guess that the middle and upper-class youth who borrow to go to college are part of the 99% which he works very hard to protect and defend.

[Wwcd]

189. Umm .Certainly Not the Poorest of Sierra Blanca Texas. He fought against them with a House bill!

Your 'lifelong' statement is untrue unless his life work began sometime after 1998.
As of a 2014 tax return, the Sanders' still profit from his & Jane's decision.


SNIP

"If history tells us anything about minority communities they seemingly always get the short end of the stick. Flint, MI is one such community that comes to mind. In this case, the community of Sierra Blanca didn't have any real political clout and they were reaching out to Mr. Sanders for help.

Mr. Sanders could have stood behind this very poor Hispanic community, but as his response to the protestors revealed, he chose the political expedient route. In this case, he didn't stand up for the less fortunate in Sierra Blanca.

Paul Wellstone would later call this injustice against the people of Sierra Blanca a case of "environmental racism”.
More here:
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/16/1516075/-Sanders-are-still-profiting-from-Sierra-Blanca-nuclear-waste-dump-per-their-2014-tax-return

[Demsrule86]

211. Well...it is not going well is it? Grad students are targeted by Trump's tax bill...

we need to win elections and have power to do stuff of it doesn't much matter.

[bettyellen]

218. Not for the women and babies who are the poorest. Nope.

[karynnj]

25. Jane's response was quite reasonable

Reid suggested that Bernie pushes women aside - and specifically includes his wife. This really was inappropriate. She has no knowledge about the Sanders' marriage. It was a very rude comment.

This is at a level with the inappropriate comments that the Clinton marriage was just a political partnership or any of the other worse comments made that I will not repeat.

[Demsrule86]

34. She has a right to her opinion. This is a mild comment...I wonder if Ms. Sanders has any idea how

hard hitting reporters will be if he had been the nominee or he runs in 20.

[karynnj]

49. More than having a right to have an opinion, she is the EXPERT on her relationship with Bernie!

I assume that Jane Sanders is very aware of the amount of heat he -- and she -- will get if he runs to be President. Personally, I do not see that happening and if he does run, I doubt that he wins the primaries.

In 2016, there were only two candidates after the early point when O'Malley left the race. I suspect that while a portion of those who voted for him were excited about his message. I would suggest that he likely also got some who could be called Anybody but Hillary. I suspect that there will be more candidates running for 2020 - and I doubt he will be the one people gravitate to - even as he starts with far more name recognition than in 2016.

My guess is that Sanders main contribution in 2020 might be to endorse a candidate that he sees as running on the issues important to him. That endorsement might be as important as Ted Kennedy endorsing Kerry and travelling all over Iowa with him or Kerry and then Kennedy endorsing Obama to the recipient.

[Demsrule86]

64. I think Sen.Sanders plans to run in 20...once you get the presidential fever, it is hard to break.

[StevieM]

69. Agreed. And that goes for Biden too. But I have to ask: can you imagine if Hillary was planning

to run for the third time at the age of 78? Can you imagine the way she would be attacked as being obsessed with power and filled with a feeling of entitlement?

[Demsrule86]

73. It is different for women...Hillary was treated unlike any candidate in history during the primary

and the election...it makes me so angry.

[StevieM]

76. That's exactly how I feel. It was such a national disgrace.

And the most disgraceful part is that we don't identify it as a national disgrace.

[Demsrule86]

162. Even now I feel a white hot rage when I think about it...no man would ever have been treated or

has been treated this way.

[StevieM]

171. Agreed. No doubt about it. (eom)

[karynnj]

115. Ugggh, the comments would be awful and a woman of 78 would, on average, be healthier than a man nt

[Demsrule86]

165. Yep. Women live longer in general...I can imagine the the nasty remarks that would follow she would

be power hungry...blah blah..fuck them all. The most disappointing thing about 16 besides having Trump (puke) in the White House was being forced to realize that Women have take a giant step backwards in the last decade or so. We were complacent... and it will be a hell of a fight to get back to even where we were...but for my offspring and future Grandkids...I am going to do my best to make things better.

[karynnj]

217. I am not sure we did take a step back

You could look at the entire Me too movement as a strong first step needed to create a change in culture that in a very real way would respect women more. I know there was a response to this in I think the 1980s when many companies had policies and training on this. Yet that response obviously did not change the culture.

While getting a female President would be breaking the ultimate glass ceiling, I think that 2016 actually showed the country would vote for a woman. Consider what you would have said if Obama lost narrowly to Clinton or if he lost narrowly to McCain. I do not think it would have been a huge step back for African Americans, though obviously it was a bigger step forward.

[Demsrule86]

265. What about abortion rights? What about birth control? We have a situation where

employers can fire a woman for using birth control. My daughter was forced to be a 'shot' girl at some golf outing last year where she was pinched repeatedly and lots of inappropriate comments made...she is an accounting major... All of her office (just the women of course) were required to participate. She got a different job upon graduation...works for a Buffet company now which is decent. When I was pregnant with my first child (teenage pregnancy) I was asked if I want to continue the pregnancy...it is entirely different now...we have lost ground these last thirty years. If we cannot control our bodies, we can't do much else.

[karynnj]

290. I am reminded of what Obama said that progress is not a smooth path forward

Obviously, the Trump administration, even more than most Republican administrations is moving in the wrong direction. I am optimistic that the long term trend is still in our direction. I suspect that the company your daughter worked for might - at the moment - need to change their culture which likely was the same 30 years ago. As to abortion rights and birth control, it is true that regressive states have nibbled away very significantly at abortion rights.

However, some things have changed in the right direction. This fall, my daughter and her fiancee, Meg, were married in a service surrounded by family and friends. This was something my sister could not do 30 years ago when she and her love first committed to spend their lives together. My sister and her wife were incredibly moved when she announced her engagement and started planning a wonderful wedding with that included many of her fellow theology PHD friends.

The income gap between men and women has narrowed significantly since 1987 (30 years ago) - even though women now get slightly less than 80% of what men get. https://www.pay-equity.org/info-time.html It is frustrating hearing the many many harassment charges, because this was something that was an issue in the 1980s and big corporations required managers to attend training on this issue and many companies spoke of having a zero tolerance policy. I saw people fired in organizations I was in for violating this ... but I also saw that it was not in reality anywhere near as clear as the policy stated. My point was that I think the anger and the number of very prominent people fired is greater than the impetus behind the corporate response in the 1980s. One would think that the response eventually will be stronger given the stronger force out there now.

However, what we might actually see is that as on birth control and abortion, there are two Americas - and not the ones identified by John Edwards! The red states and the blue states are moving in opposite directions. In the blue states, abortion and birth control will be available and likely affordable. Sexual harassment will increasingly come with potential high costs in the blue states. Meanwhile, in the red states, abortion and birth control will be under fire ... and they will very likely vote for someone who almost certainly at least was the creepy older man who preyed on teens -- especially vulnerable ones -- in the mall if not a full blown sexual predator.

[Demsrule86]

298. This is true. we take three steps forward and one step backwords...my Mother did not have her own

credit cards as late as the early 80's companies refuse to give women credit. Things are better... during my disastrous teen first marriage. I used to pull the fire alarm rather than yelling when my then husband was 'acting up'. Cops either didn't come or took his side. I was divorced by 21. Now there is some help for women in this situation while not perfect, it is better. I am just bummed that my daughter faced sexual harassment as an intern. And as for the abortion and birth control issue. It has to be legal in every state...this is is civil rights issue in my opinion.

[karynnj]

306. Agree with you completely

Also want to say that I am impressed that you were able to survive such a difficult young adulthood.

[Demsrule86]

351. I really did have a rough few years...mostly because I made really bad choices.

I married a guy who was older than me who had a motorcycle, a black leather jacket and a fast car...in lust I think. He turned out to be a rat....abusive and into drugs...once put a loaded gun to my head and pulled the trigger...the gun did not fire. I walked out of there the next day after spending the night in a summer cabin with an unlocked door. We lived in WVA near a boy scout camp. I was lucky. I was a middle class kid with parents who loved me despite my mistakes... I went home to Connecticut and lived there with my oldest daughter who was too young to remember what happened-thank God...went to college and got a a decent job. My parents were the best. My Dad put my ex through rehab. He said it was a bad idea to have the father of my child in the gutter...he also go a lawyer and rescinded the ex's visitation... He did become sober, but I could never forgive him or have much to do with him...eventually he got to know his daughter and has never to my knowledge harmed his current wife...I was 18 and he was 24 when we married. I think sometimes that two people who should never have even dated somehow ended up married...and that we brought out the worst in each other...all the nastiness that is beneath the surface. I married my husband ...my soulmate some years later and we went to counseling as I still had some unresolved issues...in the middle of an argument...he pushed by me and I had like a flashback and slapped him so hard I actually made his nose bleed...so we went to therapy...Dr. L.... truly saved me from my demons and put us on the road to what has been an incredibly passionate happy marriage. We were blessed with three additional kids...and if my misspent youth was miserable...my later years have been happy and productive. I have told my story to many women's shelters and worked to give all women a chance...not just the middle class. I got a second chance...I want that for all women.

[Justice]

233. On Inauguration Day in 2021: Biden would be 78; Sander 79; Warren 71; Trump 74 and Hillary 73

People get a grip. Bernie and Joe aren't going to run for president in 2020.

Ronald Reagan was 78 when he left the White House.

[Justice]

177. Hillary is 6 yrs YOUNGER than Bernie and

5 years younger than Joe. Oh my. Can you imagine?

[Demsrule86]

212. I don't have to imagine...I can read up on 16 where she was treated worse than any candidate in

history from the first primary to the general election.

[Orsino]

271. Presidential fever?

I think a candidate will keep running as long as there's a demand. I want Bernie out in front, demanding the best our Dems can offer, but I don't see real signs of a 2020 run from him. Has his mandate, such as it was, grown?

[Demsrule86]

352. No, presidential fever...It is an old term. You have to try again as this taste of presidential

power experienced during the primary is intoxicating...and this time, it will be different.



Summary: Illustration shows Puck in the Senate chamber, among many senators sick with "Presidential Fever"; Puck is offering a spoonful of "Anti-Presidential Quinine" to John Sherman. Among the senators present are Wade Hampton, George F. Hoar, James D. Cameron, William Mahone, Warner Miller, Daniel Wolsey Voorhees, John Logan, George Edmunds, John Sherman, George Graham Vest, Thomas Bayard, John Percival Jones, and Judge David Davis. Peering over the chamber walls are George M. Robeson, Jay Gould, and Roscoe Conkling.
Reproduction Number: LC-DIG-ppmsca-28365 (digital file from original print)
Rights Advisory: No known restrictions on publication.
Call Number: Illus. in AP101.P7 1883 (Case X) [P&P]
Repository: Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division Washington, D.C. 20540 USA http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/pp.print

[Demsrule86]

353. Also, I don't believe there is much demand for Sen. Sanders to run... he makes that decision...

and I hope he doesn't run for many reasons...his age, it will cause divisions and I think we need to move on from 16 completely.

[StevieM]

67. To be fair to Sanders--who I am not a fan of--I think his endorsement, if he doesn't run himself,

would be a bigger deal than Kennedy's was in 2004 or 2008.

HRC won Massachusetts by 15 points in 2008. In 2004 Kerry seemed very likely to win NH after he won Iowa, Dean gave us the Dean scream, and Edwards, who was not a good fit for NH, was the 2nd place finisher in Iowa. And I don't think Kennedy was nearly as relevant in Iowa as Tom Harkin--whose endorsement didn't do Dean much good.

Gephardt got into a major brawl with Dean towards the end in Iowa that hurt both campaigns.

I am pretty sure that Sanders is running in 2020. Probably Joe Biden too.

Here is a list of 20 candidates (listed alphabetically) who I think will run:

Joe Biden
Corey Booker
Steve Bullock
Julian Castro
Eric Garcetti
Kirsten Gillibrand
Luis Gutierrez
Kamala Harris
John Hickenlooper
Eric Holder
Jason Kander
Amy Klobuchar
Mitch Landrieu
Chris Murphy
Martin O'Malley
Tim Ryan
Bernie Sanders
Kathleen Sebelius
Tom Steyer
Elizabeth Warren


I would like Jay Inslee, the governor of Washington, to run but I don't think he will. And I think that Deval Patrick will jump into the race if Joe Biden doesn't. If Biden runs then I think Patrick will sit it out.

Right now I am liking Tom Steyer a lot.

[renate]

71. Me too!

Not just from his ads but from his appearance on one of the weekend talk shows--I forget which. He seemed genuinely passionate about income inequality... I got a good vibe from him.

[StevieM]

83. Agreed. And Steyer is also a great environmentalist. I think he may surprise people. (eom)

[rtracey]

74. you missed one

Gavin Newsome

[StevieM]

82. My dad is in total agreement with you.

He also wants Newsom to run.

I didn't miss him, I just don't think he is likely to run.

I'll tell you the same thing I told my father: Newsom is running for governor next year. I just can't imagine that right after being elected governor he will turn around and run for president the next year. Candidates will have to enter the race in early 2019. To do that, right after being elected governor, would look awful to a lot of people.

Also, there is no "e" at the end of his name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Newsom

[Demsrule86]

75. We need a red stater...I hope Sherrod Brown will consider it.

He is great and can talk to the rust belt.

[karynnj]

95. I think it would be harder to be too much bigger than either of those

In 2004, Kennedy endorsed Kerry before Iowa and spent a huge amount of time campaigning with him. I agree that once Kerry pulled off an upset victory in Iowa, he was well positioned to win NH. I agree that the Gephardt/Dean war destroyed both of them, but one thing I was told by a Democrat who worked in Iowa that year - the unusual thing about Kerry's support was that while it took a long time to build up - once people chose him they stayed with him.

Kennedy did two things for Kerry in Iowa - one was that people came out to see Teddy and the second was that Kennedy had long been able to get Kerry to laugh and not be 100% serious. Not only that, Kennedy did a great job making the case for Kerry who he then knew for 3 decades. However, Iowa being Iowa, the one most responsible for his Iowa win was Kerry himself. He was very good speaking to people one to one. In addition, it did not hurt that in the last week he was joined by the man he saved in Vietnam and that Kerry had little warning that he was coming.

Incidentally, the media made a big deal of the Harkin and the Gore endorsements. I've seen the CSPAN videos of Kennedy and Kerry and they clearly were having a great time campaigning and that has to help. As to the Dean scream, it may be the most overrated thing ever. The story that night would have been that frontrunner Dean came in far behind both Kerry and Edwards - getting 18% to Kerry's 38%! In fact, if anything, the Dean scream - played ad nauseum - meant that they had less time for the story of Kerry winning.

As to 2008, I think that Obama needed several things to win his unlikely victory in the primaries. He needed Clinton to make mistakes and run a mediocre campaign, he needed the endorsements of Durbin, Kerry and Kennedy to bring in some who thought him too inexperienced, and he needed to run a fantastic, near perfect campaign. Just to win by a nose!

As to 2020, my thinking is that I think Sanders ran in 2016 to get his ideas out ... which he did. I would bet that he was stunned he did anywhere as good as he did. More than most politicians, I think he is driven by issues and the desire to move things in the right direction. I have NOTHING to base this on, but I suspect that if he thought one of the candidates had the potential to be an excellent candidate and who shared his goals, he might see his role as having shifted the party to allow that leader to lead.

I like your list - and one thing to notice is that there are many likely possibilities. It is too early to think of who will be the right person for the time and where the country is now. I do like the latest set of Tom Seyer's ads on taxes and the tone he has used in all of them.

I suspect that Biden will not run. His numbers (as with Sanders) are inflated as they have more name recognition. Biden was a very good vice president, but I think one think people will consider if that he was not given the traditional opportunity to be the frontrunner as President. In addition, he ran twice on his own and he really gained little traction either time. He's a smart guy and has an excellent resume, but he will be 77 years old.

[StevieM]

119. We definitely have to meet up here in early 2019 when the candidates are entering the race.

I would be absolutely shocked if Sanders does not run. Biden seems a little less certain but I am pretty sure he is running too. Obviously neither of us can know for sure or truly understand what is happening in other people's minds.

Biden would have been given the opportunity to be front runner if not for the fact that in 2013-2014 HRC was polling in the 60s while Biden was in single digits. Had their positions been reversed then I cannot imagine he would not have entered the race.

[karynnj]

125. I agree that Sanders is very very active and has NOT said he won't

However, I suspect that ANY person who is being talked about running has to take it a bit as a compliment and it likely gives them more ability to be heard when they speak out.

I quite agree that HRC was polling much higher. Part of that was that it always was CW that he would not run and that she would - though there were occasional stories when he said that he might. As to the 2015 Hamlet like act and what he is doing now, I suspect that is Biden being Biden. It has to be hard to leave the stage after 8 years as VP.

[Me.]

134. I Don't Think Biden Has A Chance

especially with today's environment and the entire Anita Hill episode. Guiterrez says he's not going to run for anything. Sanders would have to run as a 3rd party candidate as I don't think many will accept him suddenly becoming a DEm again. Tim Ryan has made himself unpopular with his support of lowering corporate taxes.

[lunamagica]

141. Do you really believe Luis Gutierrez is planning to run?

[StevieM]

146. I am assuming that some of the names I listed may not run. But all of them seem reasonably likely

to run. That includes Luis Gutierrez based on what I heard today.

I didn't have him or Kathleen Sebelius or Steve Bullock listed as recently as a week ago. They are new additions.

I left off Jay Inslee, one of my top choices, because I get the feeling he is not running. I also don't think Terry McCauliffe will run.

[lunamagica]

153. Well, if Guttierrez runs, I'll be a 100% behind him!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

243. No, but wouldn't mind if he did.

[jrthin]

58. Bingo! nt

[cwydro]

130. Yes indeed.

If she’s that thin-skinned, it’s just as well he didn’t win the nomination.

[flamingdem]

104. +1 Jane is fully within her rights, Joy is out of line

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. +1000 WAY out of line!

[flamingdem]

111. Am glad some sanity is happening on this

We can't be Trump type followers believing shards of video and falling for fake news. Bernie has a record on Women's rights and people here are simply trying to smear him due to the old hurts regarding Hillary.

SO counter productive, we'll lose elections with this bs

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

124. You got that right... Bernie is a shining example on women's rights...

and so many issues. It's fine if others want to support other politicians who, no doubt, have fine attributes. But the constant Bernie bashing is getting tiresome.

[BoneyardDem]

147. Shining example?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

164. Yes.

[Demsrule86]

216. I wish I could agree with you, but I don't. His comments on planned parenthood and

identity politics disqualify him for a 20 nomination in my opinion. And of course his endorsement of several candidates who were not good on abortion rights doesn't help with women voters... He endorsed for example Mello who sponsored and voted for legislation that curtailed abortion rights in Nebraska and Perriello who damaged the ACA in terms of abortion rights when he was in the House. He eventually voted for the ACA-but still I find that troubling. Sen. Sanders seems to think this from what I can tell that economic justice will guarantee social justice, but it doesn't. We need both. I do not find social justice a 'distraction'. I know you think that those who are not with Sen. Sanders are haters but that is not the case. There are solid reasons to oppose his candidacy in a primary...not of course in a general. I will vote for whoever wins the Democratic Primary in the general.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

234. Where do you get these ideas from Demsrule?

Why would you say "I know you think that those who are not with Sen. Sanders are haters." I've certainly never said, or even thought, such a thing!

OBVIOUSLY, there are legitimate points of disagreement people can have with Bernie - hell, ANY politician! - as you yourself raise... so, why, when you raise legitimate points of disagreement, do you also have to resort to gross distortions by speaking for ME, and misrepresenting my positions, by saying I think those against Bernie are haters?

This is not the first, second, or third time you've put words in my mouth... why do you keep doing this?! I don't get it. Please stop doing that... it makes it very difficult to engage with you in honest debate - and I very much respect your opinion here on DU and can appreciate what you have to say - but, when you start telling me what I THINK and, indeed, MISCHARACTERING what I believe, I don't see how such debate is possible.

OF COURSE , there can be honest disagreement without being a hater... just like there can be petty criticisms - like of Bernie pointing for cripes sake!!! - which makes those bashers look silly.

To conflate that with suggesting that I view those who do not support Bernie as "haters" is ridiculous and you know it. Again, I've never said such a thing, so, PLEASE, I'm beggng you, don't speak for me.

Thank you.

[Demsrule86]

213. They both are within their rights...and those who support Sanders should prepare for an onslaught of

heavy duty criticism if he runs in 20.

[pandr32]

112. Thank you!

[MojoWrkn]

267. Agreed! I witnessed Bernie treating his wife rudely a couple of times at campaign events. Is

everyone supposed to overlook that because he's Bernie? I think of him as an OLD CODGER and while Hillary was not my choice of candidates, I could never bring myself to vote for Bernie.

[monmouth4]

3. Good for you Jane. Sometimes the pundits start to feel their oats, not good...n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

236. Jane DESTROYED Joy on that one... good for her!!

[TheDebbieDee]

5. I would have much rather read from Joy Reid a report

on what happened to the DOJ investigation into Jane Sanders' rumored loans from Russian banks...

[MrsCoffee]

9. That would be an interesting read.

[karynnj]

27. Please provide a credible link to a DOJ investigation of that sort or of Russian banks.

It is pretty clear that what you intend to do here is spear smears, which is against the TOS.

[George II]

65. I'm not sure of the Russian bank part of this, but it's common knowledge that the FBI....

....which operates under the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice, has an active investigation underway into a loan obtained by Burlington College when Jane Sanders was president.

This NYT article is behind a pay wall, here are the first couple of paragraphs:

U.S. Is Investigating Jane Sanders Over Burlington College Bank Loan

Federal authorities are investigating a 2010 land deal for a Vermont college that was run at the time by Jane Sanders, the wife of Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The deal ultimately contributed to her ouster as president of the college.

The deal involved a $10 million sale of about 33 acres of lakefront property by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Burlington to Burlington College — where Ms. Sanders was president — so the college could relocate and expand.

(more if you're a subscriber or haven't exhausted your monthly 10 free articles....)


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/jane-sanders-vermont-burlington-college-investigation.html?mtrref=www.google.com

[karynnj]

118. The bank involved is NOT Russian, but is headquartered in Connecticut.

(People's United Bank) - The bank operates 387 branches in Connecticut, southeastern New York State, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire. (from wikipedia)

[George II]

128. Like I said, I wasn't sure of the Russian part of it, but there definitely is an investigation....

....going on by the FBI.

I have several accounts with People's United Bank in Connecticut.

[lunamagica]

144. Is Jane a Democrat?

[Me.]

44. Wow

Didn't know about that...details or should I just google.

[melman]

48. Rumored where?

Let's see some info on this.

[David__77]

79. Rumor shit post.

That’s the worst in politics. Slimy stuff you did there.

[TheDebbieDee]

131. Here's some slimy shit for you...

http://www.newsweek.com/jane-sanders-bernie-sanders-fraud-loans-burlington-college-628570

I would like to know if the investigation is still in progress or if it's been concluded, is the bank that gave her the loans affiliated with any Russian oligarchs, what's going on?

Also, if your over-zealous defense of all criticisms/questions of Sen Sanders and his relations is going to result in charges of shit post, you better create a macro for that...

[melman]

149. So where's the Russian bank thing come from?

It's not in that story. Where did you get that 'rumor'?

[TheDebbieDee]

156. It was SPECULATED that Russians could somehow have been involved

in assuring that Sanders got the loan she needed. So, were the Russian banks involved? Did they guarantee the loan for the school? What happened with Jane Sanders and her loan and the investigation? Maybe it's still in progress?

[melman]

157. Where?

By whom?

[R B Garr]

137. Your post is what is rumor. Hard to believe youve missed

this. News of an FBI investigation is hardly a “shit post.” Reality is a thing.

[progressoid]

295. Where's the Russian connection in this reality?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

237. Okay, so the standard now is that politicians are responsible for their spouses actions?

What happened?!

[MrsCoffee]

7. He famously told his wife not to stand next to him on stage while gently pushing her away.

And his early articles were weird as fuck.

What exactly has she done that is so low?

[Laurian]

10. That's what I remember, so I think Joy was on point.

[MrsCoffee]

53. He was awful on stage to Hillary as well.

http://bluenationreview.com/bernie-dont-stand-next-to-me/

His talking style is no excuse for his rude and dismissive behavior. I've seen him act the same way on the Bill Maher show sitting next to a woman waving his hand repeatedly in her face.

But apparently we can't point those things out here without getting labeled a concern troll or whatever.

[Fred Sanders]

14. Being able to read minds must be nice. Everyone has their quirks after decades of close marriage.

[PatsFan87]

23. Yes because telling his wife not to stand next to him during a speech where he famously

flails his arms around proves he's a raging misogynist terror. People really need to stop with the concern trolling. It's not a good look.

[Fred Sanders]

11. Joy, Twitrrr is not well suited to making a delicate and highly speculative point. An apology?

[Demsrule86]

36. I would not apologize...it was a fair comment.

[heaven05]

17. there is a small faction

of a minor wing of the Democratic Party in which BS et al are untouchable. The faux outrage makes me lol...Joy REID is a top shelf Democrat and a top notch reporter doing what is so rare...her job. All this is much ado about nothing.

[Tipperary]

46. Yes you got that right.

That is EXACTLY right.

[Progressive dog]

70. Very well stated

I agree with all you said.

[The Wielding Truth]

13. This isn't like Joy to be generally judgmental without proof.

I think she is wrong about Bernie. He is honest to a fault and seems to be kind to everyone. Gees. How has he dismissed his wife? She doesn't feel dismissed.

[karynnj]

30. She wasn't when she was with him at a Burlington event on his birthday

on a boat on Lake Champlain with local Democrats. They both seemed pretty happy.

[George II]

109. There's a video at a rally that demonstrates it very well.

[CatWoman]

16. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

A Patriots fan?

[PatsFan87]

20. Guilty! haha. I've been cheering them on since the 90s

[CentralMass]

18. Bernie on womens rights/issues ..

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-womens-rights/

[JI7]

19. Jane should prove her wrong by releasing the tax returns

[progressoid]

315. What does that have to do with Joy's comment?

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. Cheap shot, Reid.

Spend your time going after the real enemy.

[Squinch]

80. I include people who repeatedly trash the Democratic party in that "real enemy" group.

[sheshe2]

90. +++

[mcar]

99. Yep

[R B Garr]

150. Yes!! This cannot be said enough.

[murielm99]

190. The way BS goes after the real enemy?

[progressoid]

308. 4 hours ago...

Link to tweet

[murielm99]

310. That has to be a first,

or nearly so. He is usually criticizing Democrats, or Hillary.

Interesting how you knew exactly what I was talking about. I was trying to phrase it carefully enough that I would not get alert stalked. We walk on eggshells when we criticize Bernie.

[progressoid]

314. I just checked the last 30 days of his twitter feed. Nothing about Dems or Hillary.

Trump, the tax plan, health care, the economy, went to Puerto Rico with Kamala Harris, etc. Nothing bad about Dems or Hillary. When was the last time he was critical of the party? June? Geez, let's move on.

Wasn't difficult to figure out what you were talking about. You wrote it! "The way BS goes after the real enemy?"

[BoneyardDem]

319. It would be awesone if he fnally realized critisizing Dems and Hillary was damaging to Democrats.

[progressoid]

334. Have you read Hillary's book?

[MaryMagdaline]

26. Bernie is on video shooing his wife away and

On bill Maher show reaching over a woman to point in another guest's face. The woman more than once gently moved his hand away from her face as he leaned next to her. He finally caught on, apologized, then did it again. No manners. Joy was probably referring to those widely disseminated videos plus his early writings about rape. Sorry for Jane Sanders, but we all made comments at the time about his pushing her away, much as we do when Trump disses Melania in public. Jane's response is outright nasty in tone. "Have you met me?" Yeah, we just did, Jane, and you sound like you want to kick Joy's ass ... an articulate liberal whom your husband will need if he gets the nomination. Harsh choice of words and just dumb.

[NurseJackie]

31. This. Yes. Thank you.

I'm sick of it too.

[cwydro]

77. Well said. nt

[Kentonio]

96. Damn right her tone is nasty, exactly as it should be

A reporter who doesn't know either of them just used her to try and smear her husband based on a couple of stupid out of context video clips. I'm surprised Jane wasn't harsher, she had every right to be.

[MrsCoffee]

196. Joy isnt a reporter. She is a commentator and tv host.

Last edited Thu Nov 30, 2017, 08:32 AM - Edit history (1)

And there are plenty of videos of Bernie being rude and dismissive to women. Just as for decades, his voice has been dismissive of women and the Democratic Party. The same party that he has leaned on the last twenty five years or so.

When Bernie Sanders ran against me in Vermont
By Madeleine May Kunin FEBRUARY 05, 2016

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/04/when-bernie-sanders-ran-against-vermont/kNP6xUupbQ3Qbg9UUelvVM/story.html

Hillary Clinton is not the first progressive Democratic woman to be challenged by Bernie Sanders. He ran against me in 1986 when I was running for my second term as governor of Vermont. At that time he had little affinity for the Democratic Party. When advised that his third-party candidacy might result in a Republican victory, he saw no difference between Democrats and Republicans, saying: “It is absolutely fair to say you are dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledee.”

Voters did not agree. Sanders received 14 percent of the vote, the Republican candidate, Peter Smith received 38 percent, and I won with 47 percent.

By any measure I was regarded as a progressive governor. If I was vulnerable, it was for being too liberal. As a legislator, my maiden speech on the floor of the Vermont House was in favor of ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment. My first priority as governor was universal access to kindergarten. I set a record for a Vermont governor’s appointees; women filled half of my cabinet. I sought out talented women, many of whom were the first women to head their agencies.

Women draw on a different network than men and can share an alternative definition of “qualified.” Hillary Clinton’s campaign staff, according to Fast Company, is over 50 percent female. Sanders’ campaign began with a a predominantly male inner circle and continues to face accusation of keeping women out of the top ranks.

When Sanders was my opponent he focused like a laser beam on “class analysis,” in which “women’s issues” were essentially a distraction from more important issues. He urged voters not to vote for me just because I was a woman. That would be a “sexist position,” he declared.

[Kentonio]

210. Sorry but a story from a former political opponent doesn't cut it.

His record on women's rights is unassailable, which is why he was rated 100% by so many women's rights organizations.

[MrsCoffee]

215. Its his voice that is the problem, not his votes.

Well not most of his votes anyway. Voting no on Russian sanctions definitely stands out as a problem.

And to be clear, in this case “voice” means the message he projects nationally.

[LiberalLovinLug]

114. OMG they found some human flaws on Sanders!

Sanders can be a grumpy cumogany old man. He may even have a few bad manners. Most of us look past that superficial trapping. We appreciate more his principles, his ideas, his work ethic, and his honesty. And Bernie and Jane are a seasoned couple who have learned to deal with each others idiocencrisies and manners. Obviously Jane is not too concerned. Reeeeeeealy stretching here to find any little character flaw in order to bring down the Democrats most proliferate and principled ally.

And to characterise her response as a "nasty tone" for defending her husband from a baseless public smear like that with a "have you met me?" lol

[MaryMagdaline]

117. Bad manners are a sign of disrespect

Glad you can overlook that slight flaw.

[TheBlackAdder]

132. It's also a sign of those with a high I.Q. and socially awkward. Just visit IBM's Poughkeepsie Labs.

[R B Garr]

175. That sure doesnt sound like a long-term elected Senator.

And Sanders doesn’t claim to be a computer whiz from the geek squad. He’s been in politics for forty years.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

242. Well said!! There are plenty of legitimate things one can pick on with ANY politician on our side...

the one Joy chose was absurd and warrants an apology.

[radical noodle]

133. I've seen more than one instance of dismissiveness

to women. Anyone can put an "I respect women" slogan on their website, but the example they set in their treatment of women is what tells the tale.

[melman]

28. .

Link to tweet

?lang=en

[PatsFan87]

51. I've never seen that. Hilarious.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

168. That popinjay says whatever makes her the most clicks and consultant money.

She said some really nasty things about Hillary in 2008

Here she is on Hillary in 2008:

Meanwhile, by staying in the race, is Hillary Clinton becoming the candidate of white racists? Or is she just the Al Sharpton of white people?

Watching the ongoing, erratic gyrations of Hurricane Hillary, and talking with friends over the weekend

1. Hillary Clinton is insane. She has had a complete psychotic break due to the stresses of watching her presidential dream slip away, and has lost touch with reality. In her mind, she will be president, somehow, and her aides (and her husband) are afraid to confront her with the truth, lest she lose whatever's left of her mind.

2. Hillary Clinton knows that she won't get the nomination, so she is determined to make sure Barack Obama doesn't get the White House. Having failed to convince the villagers to make her their queen, this version has Hillary burning the Democratic village to the ground, not to save it, but just for the sheer joy of watching it burn. (Stupid villagers.) For this to be true, Hillary Clinton has to believe, as I do, that John McCain would be at best, a mediocre president, incapable of Eisenhowerian or even Reagensque greatness, and that through a combination of his total lack of charisma, his determination to plow ahead in Iraq, LBJ style, and his age, he will surely be a one-term president. And so she and her closest allies are already printing up the "Hillary in 2012" bumper stickers.

[SMC22307]

169. So Joy was a Bernie fan before she was a...

Hillary fan? Fucking classic. Reminds me of a certain "brave" former DUer...LOL. Any way the wind blows...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

240. Unsure what you're sayin here-was it not a good thing Joy supported Hillary in the general election

against that POS sitting in the White House right now?!

[SMC22307]

344. Of course, all hands on deck. However...

she (and many DUers) absolutely trashed Hillary in 2008 only to act as is she was the Second Coming in 2016. And when I say 'trashed,' I'm not talking about mere policy differences, but glaring character flaws and moral failings. I mean, vicious stuff. But, they all saw the light in 2016, praise be! I don't watch cable and tune out the pundits, and this latest garbage from Joy reminded me that I'm not missing much. Anything to make a buck...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

345. Oh okay, now I get what you're saying.

[progressoid]

316. +1

[disillusioned73]

224. lol...

you ever see the stuff she wrote during the 2008 primary?? Classic, hint - she wasn't a Hillary fan (putting it mildly), look it up... makes one wonder which one is the "real" Joy..

[NurseJackie]

29. Thank you, Joy! I appreciate your honesty and bravery!

It needs to be said.

[MelissaB]

32. I will NOT watch Joy because of how I've seen her treat people on twitter.

I change the channel every time.

It matters to me.

[Demsrule86]

37. Yeah I am sure Bernie Fans all feel that way..so? Change the channel...it doesn't make a bit of

difference to me. It was a fair comment.

[MelissaB]

41. I has NOTHING to do with Bernie for me. It's the way she responds to some people

and it isn't a good look.

[Demsrule86]

54. I said the same thing about how he treated his wife...why is that wrong? And one

of the reasons, I am not a Bernie fan is what I perceive is a dismissive attitude towards women and Identity politics in general...Mello is an example...I don't see why he can't be called out...I suggest both of them develop a thicker skin if he runs in 20. As for Joy, I really like her...but to each their own.

[Fred Sanders]

55. I agree. TV host greatness does not come automatically with witty or insightful brevity.

Lay off the cybercrack for a bit Joy or run the things by someone first at least.

[mcar]

101. I don't get MSNBC

But I pull up Joy's weekend shows on Twitter later that day. She is excellent!

[Leith]

33. This Is the Same Feeling I Got When...

two people that I knew and liked got into a nasty argument. I was stunned because they were both good people and it seemed to me that they would get along just fine.

A few weeks later, they worked out their differences and they were cool after that. I hope the same sort of thing happens between Joy and Bernie.

[NCTraveler]

35. Isnt she also Sanders tax preparer?

Such a lack of transparency.

Joy is right.

[NurseJackie]

248. And so are you. It's amusing to read the lame counter-attacks on Joy...

... in many of the responses throughout this thread. Clearly, Joy has struck a nerve.

[NCTraveler]

301. Joy has been fighting the good fight, overall.

Jane has a seriously checkered past.

[NurseJackie]

307. That definitely appears to be the case...

... people obviously still have many ongoing legitimate questions about the legality of certain things which are (according to some) everything is not as it appears. I can't attest to the accuracy of those questions or allegations, but I can affirm that I, for one, would also be interested in knowing the answers that everyone else seeks.

[Miles Archer]

38. Well, that was an out-of-character tweet...inappropriate and disappointing.

I've posted a lot of material from Joy here, but that was just a cheap shot, and Ms. Sanders deserves an apology.

[4now]

40. I completely agree with Joy

Glad I got a chance to see her tweet.
This is something that should be discussed.

[ismnotwasm]

62. And then THIS fuckin thread

[fleabiscuit]

181. Yep.

[Tarheel_Dem]

66. Needless to say I agree with Joy on most issues, and I agree with her on this one as well. nt

[guillaumeb]

68. Reid has a right to her opinions, but her opinions are important because of her celebrity.

In the absence of any evidence, this is purely a personal attack.

[Trumpocalypse]

72. Why does anyone care if Joy Ried

attacks a politician who is not a member of the Democratic party.

[David__77]

86. The one millions of Democrats voted for?

There is some really fucking stupid factionalism around this joint.

[Trumpocalypse]

230. Many Dems voted for Trump

and Bush and Reagan. They weren't members of the democratic party either.

[Red Mountain]

94. This is why......

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-71-percent-of-millennials-want-a-third-political-party/

[questionseverything]

188. ding ding ding

reading this thread you would think these peops want to lose

the youth vote doesn't identify as dem or rep

Bernie tries to bring them into our voting block and the haters try and run them off



not to mention the things this pundit should be bringing attention to like net neutrality or the horrid tax bill, instead she helps trump distract

[Trumpocalypse]

229. Well maybe is Sanders were working to

bring them into the Democratic party instead of using them for his own ego gratification, I'd give a damn.

[nini]

84. Sorry jane

There's plenty of video out there proving joy's point.

[ecstatic]

85. I'm Team JOY. What in her tweet was incorrect?

Bernie is dismissive as hell, and he did write some sick shit before lucking up on his congress gig.

[flamingdem]

88. I'm with Jane (and I love joy but..)

she really blew it big time here. That was an offensive remark based on zero evidence.

She needs to apologize immediately.

Excellent authentic response from Jane.

[SeaDoo77]

100. Boom

Only idiots attack Bernie.

[Me.]

136. Silly

[Blue_true]

103. Reid did not hit below the belt.

What she pointed out is part of the record on Bernie. If being united in 2018 means bending over backward to excesses by Our Revolution types then I say fuck them, we are better off going after the 43% that don't vote.

[flamingdem]

106. What record, what facts? These are smears against him

Almost Trumplike. Joy is not usually this sloppy, she has a blind spot regarding Bernie.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

110. My thoughts exactly!

[Blue_true]

113. There is video and written information on Bernie that proves Joy's point. nt

[flamingdem]

122. I'd like to see it - anyone?

Let's not get into insinuation. If there's anything other than an unproven slurs let's add it to the thread

[ecstatic]

186. Really? You haven't seen Bernie's "women love rape" essays?

[BoneyardDem]

253. I posted a video w-a-y upthread

sometimes it pays to look through a thread rather than jump on the "I'll just state something I know little about, but I hope is true, like the thirty previous people did" bandwagon.

[stonecutter357]

257. try bing , google.

[ehrnst]

280. If Jane has to defend Bernie against any of these statements now....

Imagine what a presidential run where the Republicans ready to sling far worse would be like.

[MurrayDelph]

116. I generally like Joy, BUT

she has a bug up her ass about Bernie the same way Bill Maher does with Islam.

[WinkyDink]

120. I like Joy.

[angrychair]

126. Amazing

First and foremost, I campaigned for Sanders in the primaries and campaigned for Clinton in the general. I DO NOT agree with everything Sanders says or does (in as much I don’t agree with Clinton or even Obama on occasions)

That being said:
Despite evidence to the contrary, many continue to say he is dismissive or derogatory toward women and especially his wife (yes, video, seen it)

Despite that this sort of circumstantial generalization and criticism of the Clinton marriage is universally deemed rude and disrespectful there is cognitive dissonance on this issue with some in regards to the Sanders marriage.
i.e. who are you to sit in judgement of their marriage?

Despite being married to Jane for almost 30 years

Despite Jane herself clearly and unambiguously stating she does not feel Bernie is dismissive or disrespectful toward her and that she loves him and is proud of him

People are making circumstantial, snapshots in time, broad brush conclusions about their marriage and his supposed opinions of her despite conclusive evidence to the contrary (see points above)

The claim about his opinion of women is not supported by his overall voting record nor his ratings from NARAL or Planned Parenthood or NOW nor his stated policy positions on women’s issues.

That being said I HATE the term identity politics because I believe that issues like women’s reproductive healthcare and LGBTQ rights to be human rights, not throw-aways, bargaining chips or fringe issues.
I also think that Sanders can come across as a one trick one-issue pony though that is not true but he does himself no favors in this area at times

Lastly, I do not want him to run in 2020 and would not campaign for him in those primaries if he ran.
I think that the best thing that icons of the Party like the Clintons or Sanders or Biden or Inslee or even Obama can do for the future of our Party is to encourage the next generation of political leaders to run for office, from city and county to state and federal, and support and mentor them. That is the most important and longest lasting impact that they can have for the Democratic Party going into the future.

We have more important issues that this intractable nonsense that is just a rehash of the primaries.
You are going to like who you like and so be it. Moving along now...

[Docreed2003]

208. Excellent post!

[LiberalLovinLug]

279. We have an adult in the room!

way too rational and balanced for DU these days.

[NanceGreggs]

135. It's time to get off Jane's back.

The poor woman is still searching for those elusive tax returns - the ones her husband stated he couldn't produce without her help, despite the fact that he could have had copies delivered by the IRS within a matter of days of requesting them.

Let's just all forget that when BS entered the race, he KNEW those returns would be expected - and yet he didn't bother to ensure that they were available. Instead, he chose to blame his wife for the fact that they were "missing", and acted as though he was unable to access them by any other means.

[Tarheel_Dem]

185. My Dear Nance, you have such a way with words.

[VermontKevin]

322. Word is that Carina's run for mayor is behind all this.

[R B Garr]

139. Sorry, we saw the videos, Jane Sanders.

Joy is right. Also, please release your taxes finally.

[Tavarious Jackson]

140. I agree with Joy.

I have seen BS dismissing women nearly every time one interviews him.

[Wwcd]

151. Thank You Joy. About time someone says what many believe about Sanders

Keep opening that door Joy. Put it all out there.
Everything that was once "off limits" in previous interviews with Sanders needs to finally see the light of day.

Joy is one of the best truth tellers we have & considering the current climate of calling out misdeeds of men, Joy has every right to open this door with Sanders.

Like it or not, he has to answer for his own words, also.

I don't cite Jane for defending bernie.
Hillary also defended Bill in some troubled times as well.
She has her reasons.

[elfin]

152. I didn't like Bernie's podium treatment of his wife

Waved her off dismissively. Think he also said "You can go now" and not in a pleasant way not thinking the mic would pick it up.

Yes, it was a "physical dismissal."

I sensed it and I agree with JoyAnn.

One of the reasons I left him and went with HRC. Also didn't like Jane in interviews. Felt she was condescending to some interviewers.

I liked (and still like) Bernie's passion on income inequality and health care to America two, however I also thought he was an unrealistic election option.

[KPN]

154. I used to like Joy -- until Bernie started giving Hillary a run for her money.

She has no credibility with me since then -- no ability to maintain objectivity. This is just another example of her standard reaction to anything Bernie Sanders. I no longer watch or listen to her.

[LexVegas]

166. Joy is awesome. Love her.

[BannonsLiver]

174. Meh

[leftofcool]

176. Thank you, Joy. I'm with you.

[Jakes Progress]

178. I trust Joy and her instincts

more than most any politician. Nothing from Mrs. Sanders factually contradicts anything Joy said. Sanders has some nice pipe dreams - ones I loved at the beginning of the primary but came to see as smoke dreams that liberals have wished for for years, good for revving up the rabid base, but pointless in the real world of policy and politics.

One would do well to listen to Joy. Take of the blinders and see that all politicians have clay feet. I didn't worship Obama. I didn't think Hillary was perfection. But I supported them and think that they worked for getting things right with more intelligence and savvy. I can name what I see as the faults in each of them. If you don't see the flaws in your candidate, you have slipped over into hero worship and are looking for a savior that will do the job so that you don't have to.

It seems that many people found themselves radicalized by the fight for nomination. Oddly, I found myself moderatized. I would rather things get done than wish that miracles happen.

All in all, Sanders is a great politician for the left. Hillary is a great politician for the left. But they both have issues. I think that Joy has enumerated one of those for Bernie. Heaven knows there are a hundred media dogs out there happy to discuss the issues of a woman candidate.

[fleabiscuit]

179. Follow the eyes. nt

[yardwork]

198. Lol! Journalists are supposed to discuss politicians.

You don't want Bernie to be ANOINTED do you?

[BoneyardDem]

245. Fired? Over-reacting much? Where do you get the idea she's NOT doing her job as a Pundit?

Your adulation of Bernie is ....... much.

Joy stated facts...truth doesn't have a Bernie or Jane bias. You don't like the truth in her tweet...I'm pretty sure there is an echo chamber somewhere where Bernie can do no wrong and any wrong he has done is excused, ignored or even lauded.

[LuvLoogie]

182. Sorry, can't get worked up over the hurt feelings...

Let me know when Mrs. Sanders endures 25 years of actual smears by an entire party and the MSM pundit class. Not to mention the back-stabbing from "allies."

[madville]

183. I fully expect the DNC surrogates to attack Bernie

For the next two years. Democrats know it will be a brutal primary, Bernie starting off with a guaranteed 30% primary vote will throw the whole primary into turmoil as the rest fight over challenging him.

[Raine]

187. Team Jane

all the way, love you Jane! Jane Joy

[phleshdef]

191. Jane GETS to be the authority on this. Joy Reid nor any DUer has that privilege. End of Discussion.

[bettyellen]

219. That's not how it works with public figures. Hence this forum.

[phleshdef]

222. That's how it works when she is his wife and you aren't

Public figure doesn't mean jack shit in this case

[bettyellen]

223. You keep repeating that, doesn't make it so.

[phleshdef]

225. No, the fact that his wife is the authority on how her husband treats her makes it so

She is the authority. You are not. Theres nothing you can ever do to change that whether you like it or not.

[bettyellen]

226. Oh dear, you're confused. You think we can't trust what we see and hear and should instead rely on a

Self interested party's reports. You go with that if it suits you can go put a blindfold and ear plugs in. I can't unsee and I hear things because Jane says to. Nope.

[betsuni]

192. The headline: Joy going below the belt and Jane responding, I thought ...

this was about something else.

[demmiblue]

193. Disappointing.

Her show is my favorite, but she has always been part of/influenced by social media drama to a degree.

[left-of-center2012]

197. Just more of the hate Bernie crap

“In the year 2525,
if man is still alive,
If woman can survive.
they may find ..."

some will still be blaming Bernie for Trump winning in 2016.

[yardwork]

199. Since Jane is putting herself in the public arena, I have some questions for her:

Jane Sanders was president of a small college. It had to close. What happened?

And where are the Sanders' tax returns?

[lunamagica]

201. I'm with Joy. She didn't lie or make anything up.

[NurseJackie]

255. Check it out! Elsewhere...

... Joy is being dismissed by people BECAUSE she works for MSNBC which is owned by Comcast which is a FORTUNE 500 CORPORATION!! Gasp! Horrors!! OMG OMG OMG!! WTF WTF WTF!! Joy works for a CORPORATION and therefore she can't be trusted.

This is the BEST defense people can muster? Such silliness!

Oh, the extremes people will go to when the facts are against them and when they're standing on shaky ground.

Yet... I bet I would not have to look for too long to find those same individual PRAISING and COOING all over Rachel Maddow (even though she, too, works for MSNBC... owned by Comcast, etc.)

[fleabiscuit]

275. Not everyone can get on YouTube and pitch for LSD.

[samnsara]

205. yep...when he pushed his wife out of the way on stage...was weird...

..ive never been a fan of janes anyway...but yeah he did push her out of the way on stage....

[Docreed2003]

214. Sigh...the responses here are predictable....a

The shit on Bernie folks will come out of the woodwork to applaud any and all attacks on Sanders. It happens in EVERY...SINGLE...BERNIE thread.

Joy was wrong to attack Sanders this way, whether you like him or not. For the Bernie haters, I would suggest that you look at Joy’s previous attacks on Hillary Clinton during the ‘08 primary, in fact someone has posted those remarks upstream.

This was a below the belt remark, and in response, Joy posted another snide tweet.

Folks we can and should be better than this! 2016 was a freaking lifetime ago...we may have fought like cats and dogs over who would be the nominee, but we share the same ideas, at least most of the same ideas. I hope that as we move forward, to 2018 and beyond, we can focus on the resistance to our national nightmare, rather than attacking our allies.

[seaglass]

220. Yep, I remember him pushing past I think it was Collins trying to get to McCain when he came

back to the Senate. Rude and completely oblivious.

Love Joy, zero respect for Jane.

[disillusioned73]

221. Disgusting...

but not surprising..

[stonecutter357]

227. the Auto-trash by Keyword is not working .

[Mike Nelson]

228. This is...

...the kind of exchange you want to end right there. I don't want to see Reid giving her post more evidence, and I don't want to see Sanders repeatedly trying to elicit a response to her reply.

[LiberalFighter]

231. Joy doesn't need to use Jane Sanders to demean her husband.

Jane does it on her own.

Joy wasn't using Jane Sanders anyway. She was describing his interactions with women which also include her.

[Justice]

235. I always thought Jane was a little too controlling of Bernie. The larger point is that

Bernie was all amount economic equality. At times he supported candidates or suggested a greater willingness to compromise on women's issues.

Hillary wanted both economic equality and women's + civil rights equality.

I think that is coming thru in Joy's comments.

[jalan48]

241. Joy works for Comcast-one of the big media conglomerates in the US. It's #31 on the

Fortune 500. Look for more hits on Bernie from Wall Street companies and banks by corporate reporters like Joy Reid.

[NurseJackie]

246. LOL!

...banks by corporate reporters like Joy Reid.

It's not a "hit". Joy is telling the truth. It can be documented and demonstrated.

[jalan48]

247. Because you trust Comcast soooooo much.

[NurseJackie]

250. Joy is honest and has integrity. (This isn't about Comcast.) Clearly...

... she's struck a very sensitive nerve. (I should probably take a moment to let you know that "attacking the messenger"... or the messenger's employer... is rarely an effective defense. Anyone who does so reveals that they are in a very weak position or that they're standing on very shaky ground when it comes to dealing the facts.)

[jalan48]

251. Good luck with your support of Comcast. I'm sure they will do the right thing when

it comes to looking out for the interests of the average American. I'm sure Bernie's constant criticism of the Wall Street behemoths like Comcast and the big banks has absolutely no influence on their objectivity.

[NurseJackie]

256. I'll take that as an admission that Joy is right, because...

... it's clear to me that you have no facts or arguments in a direct response or rebuttal to Joy's statements and observations, and therefore rely on a very weak ad-hominem attack on Ms. Reid.

I'll be on the lookout for your scorching criticism and attacks on Rachel Maddow as well. You do know that she also works for MSNBC which is owned by (evil) Comcast, which is a Fortune 500 company (and that's almost the same as being an BANK!!)

[jalan48]

260. We need banners and flags to show which corporate giant we support.

Because, you know, my corporate media outlet is the best! Woo Hoo! The future just gets brighter for Americans every time a media corporate giant gets even bigger. And my media giant never, never tries to frame the "news" in a way that will shape public opinion.

[NurseJackie]

268. Thanks again for emphasizing that "attacking the messenger" is the only defense you have...

... and for confirming that Joy Reid's comments and observations are correct and have merit. It's pretty clear that if you actually had any valid counter-arguments or facts to present in defense or rebuttal, you'd have used them by now. But, you haven't... so that says a lot.

I have to be honest with you and let you know that all this consternation and hand-wringing and diversion/changing-the-subject that you're doing (above) demonstrate to me that Joy Reid has hit the nail directly on the head.

BTW: I'm looking forward to reading your scathing attack on Rachel Maddow, the MSNBC/COMCAST/UNIVERSAL corporate media employee.

[jalan48]

272. Media giant Comcast and it's political commentators leading the charge from the left. Resist!

That's my team!

[NurseJackie]

276. LOL!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

269. Did Joy Reid have honesty and integrity in 2008 when she called Hillary an insane racist bent on...

... causing Obama to lose the General Election?

She said some really nasty things about Hillary in 2008

Here she is on Hillary in 2008:

Meanwhile, by staying in the race, is Hillary Clinton becoming the candidate of white racists? Or is she just the Al Sharpton of white people?

Watching the ongoing, erratic gyrations of Hurricane Hillary, and talking with friends over the weekend

1. Hillary Clinton is insane. She has had a complete psychotic break due to the stresses of watching her presidential dream slip away, and has lost touch with reality. In her mind, she will be president, somehow, and her aides (and her husband) are afraid to confront her with the truth, lest she lose whatever's left of her mind.

2. Hillary Clinton knows that she won't get the nomination, so she is determined to make sure Barack Obama doesn't get the White House. Having failed to convince the villagers to make her their queen, this version has Hillary burning the Democratic village to the ground, not to save it, but just for the sheer joy of watching it burn. (Stupid villagers.) For this to be true, Hillary Clinton has to believe, as I do, that John McCain would be at best, a mediocre president, incapable of Eisenhowerian or even Reagensque greatness, and that through a combination of his total lack of charisma, his determination to plow ahead in Iraq, LBJ style, and his age, he will surely be a one-term president. And so she and her closest allies are already printing up the "Hillary in 2012" bumper stickers.

[BoneyardDem]

273. Hillary supporeters likley didn't like it then, JUST like Bernie suporters don't like it now

Pundits...whatcha gonna do about it? Perhaps you can stop watching what you don't agree with?

[George II]

274. You had to go back nine years to find some dirt on Joy Reid?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

285. Integrity is something you either have or you don't.

She was what? 40 years old? when she bashed Hillary and called her an insane racist?

Or are we going to assume she was a late bloomer in the integrity department?

Did 40 year old Reid believe all that "Bosnia sniper fire" bullshit she smeared Hillary Clinton with?

[George II]

291. Are you equally irate about what everyone said years ago?

[Eliot Rosewater]

293. What's this got to do with Hillary?

[George II]

294. Sadly if one criticizes one person, the other one immediately gets brought into the discussion.

[Eliot Rosewater]

297. What stuns me are white people, assume they are white people, using a black persons concern with

racism as a defense to something else.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

304. Psst:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9904265

[George II]

309. Psst:

If you're trying to imply that you were just following the lead of someone else by providing that link, check out the posting times of the two.

Otherwise I have no idea what that one has to do with this sub-discussion. Maybe you can explain it?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

311. I though you might want to admonish.

[George II]

313. Different context, entirely. Nice try though.

[BoneyardDem]

312. I assume the post does not contain your own opinion since you use "excerpts"

do you have a link? Others' opinions may be useless...right?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

318. Here ya go.

No, not my opinion. I supported Hillary in the 2008 primary. And I voted for her in 2016 general.

I wouldn't never vote for or support someone who I thought was an insane racist liar.

I would never vote for or support someone I thought, as people like Reid and that "making sense" clown over at Fox News said, was unfit to serve.

I would never vote for or support someone I thought tried, as pundits like Olbermann claimed, to foment the assassination of Barack Obama.

Obviously these paragons of virtue and integrity have different standards. Or maybe they are just full of shit.


https://web.archive.org/web/20080703160355/http://blog.reidreport.com/2008/03/hillarys-other-big-lie.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20081120021813/http://blog.reidreport.com/2008/05/where-do-they-find-these-people.html


https://web.archive.org/web/20080703161338/http://blog.reidreport.com/2008/03/three-probabilities.html

[BoneyardDem]

320. So somewhere between 2008 (when those articles were written) and today, Joy Reid..

...as found enough shite on Bernie and Jane she has decided to tell it out loud, and change her opinion.

After 9 years, people can change even if they were a virulent supporter. Do you have a more logical explanation?

I personally am glad I'm not required to go to my grave supporting old opinions when new info has been made available. I think most people are that way.

ps, thanks for providing the links

[Hassin Bin Sober]

323. The more logical explanation is she's full of shit

[BoneyardDem]

326. Well, I don't think that's quite right, she's done some incredible work in dubunking RW tall tales

there has been some great info come out from her show. I suspect sour grapes in 2017 that likely didn't exist in 2008 for very many on this thread.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

333. I have no idea what her problem is or if it is sour grapes

But going after him and his wife on that level is Donald Trump level shit.

She should grow the fuck up.

[chwaliszewski]

340. +1

[lapucelle]

343. Is there a reason why there's no link?

Do you have a link for Joy Reid calling HRC an "insane racist bent on causing Obama to lose"?

[lapucelle]

346. Is there a link to Joy calling HRC "an insane racist bent on costing Obama the election"?

The only things I can find are a youtube video by a Stein-supporting idiot who compiled several different out-of- context partial sentences to reach this "conclusion" and re-tweets of this sketchy talking point by RW sources.

[MurrayDelph]

249. I still remember when she went after Bernie on her show

making fun of people who said we should have respect for Bernie "because he 'marched with King,'" using air-quotes (aka Douche-fingers) when saying "marched with King."

My comment to her on Twitter back then was:
Bernie didn't "march with King"; he marched with King.
I thought you were a journalist, not a "Journalist."


She's great in almost every other area, but she has this vicious knee-jerk reaction to all things Bernie (with emphasis not on the knee. Seriously, she's like when someone stuck the word "rocket" in Trump's latest speech, and he had to go off on Kim Jung Un).

[vi5]

252. So we're talking about politicians and how they treat their wives....

...and how those wives respond to that treatment and disrespect? Especially as it relates to how they treat women in general?

Hmmmmm......Luckily for us there are no other examples of this on our side of the aisle.

[Skidmore]

254. I'm not concerned with whether or not

Sanders has hurt feelings over this. It would behoove them both to become more transparent on financial questions.

Some of the most important issue Trump and the GOP Congress have tried to foist on the nation only started to get honest coverage because Joy Reid articulated the lies and distortions of their spin. Her program is often a master's class in journalism. We can not afford to lose someone of her caliber because someone is interested in whipping up divisions.

[LakeArenal]

258. When are folks going to learn ...

To keep their nose out of anyone's relationships.

No one knows what is between married people.

[pangaia]

259. Will "YOU PEOPLE" ( US PEOPLE) stop yelling at each other about this...

Just look at this thread? Look at it?
"You're stupid!"
No I'm not YOU are."
"Prove it, go ahead and try."
"Bernie sucks."
No he doesn't. Hillary sucks"
You can't say that here."
"I love Bernie"
"How can you?" Hillary is the greatest ever!"
Nobody is the greatest ever."

JEESH !!! Give it up...


255 replies as of now ( well, including me 256) wasting time on this.

Get off it and go out and try to stop the horror that is happening to other human beings in this country.
Wadda we gonna do when Net Neutrality is shut down? How do we communicate with each other?

...........................................................
This message brought to you by PANGAIA, who just may be about to lose his Medicare, Social Security, open web access TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, DUH !!!


Love ya all !!


Well, not quite all. But I won't name names. LOL.

[MaryMagdaline]

359. Good point, but Jane's response was

Impolitic. It hurt those of us who love Joy. Hurt. Can I say that? Can I say that I am butt hurt? I don't want the potential nominee's wife sending nasty tweets to one of the strongest liberal defenders in the media. That's emotion talking.

If we cannot accept an emotional response, here's a practical response: you get elected by making your enemies your friends, not by making your friends your enemies. For whatever reason, some Hillary supporters still resent Bernie. If you want to win the next election, go on Joy's show, use her platform to be a hero for women and minorities. Attack the tax giveaway. The two of you can do some major RW bashing and unite the left.

One of you is running for president. One of you is not. Usually the politician is the one who has to be politic.

Peace.

[marcopolo63]

262. What does she mean by

Bernie’s “physical dismissal” of woman? Is Joy Reid insinuating something akin to assault here? This smells like slander...

[BoneyardDem]

270. take a moment to read through the top 1/3rd of this thread for video and examples

you are speaking with no facts to back you up

"slander"? why would you say that when you are devoid of all the facts?

[marcopolo63]

348. Devoid?

There’s no factual basis to say Bernie is physically dismissive of women. Your video or anecdotal “evidence” is not a grounds for Joy Reid to insinuate that Bernie is abusive to women or has in any way been physical or dismissive with women that he’s interacted with.

I find in using the words that she has selected, Joy Reid is IMHO slandering Bernie! She was borderline slanderous and dismissive of him and his campaign during the 2016 Primaries and is taking it a step further now! Why?

[BoneyardDem]

367. there were several other videos upthread. you must have missed those too

and yes, you claim slander and yet have no facts to prove any slanderous statement was made by Joy.

[marcopolo63]

372. What are you not getting?

She is insinuating that he is abusive of women, including his wife! How is that not slanderous and why is she saying these awful things about Bernie if not to demean his character?

Your videos show no such behavior by Bernie. Paste a link if you’ve seen something akin to him being physically dismissive. If not let’s stop this boring argument. Joy Reid is a good news reader. I like her show and her hosting style. Her disdain and open hatred of Bernie I do not like and find hateful!

[Blue_Tires]

263. This is merely the latest salvo of an ongoing war between Berners and Reid

Last edited Thu Nov 30, 2017, 02:45 PM - Edit history (2)

This is the part where I'm supposed to say something about the optics of a camp which already has serious issues attracting black voters waging war against a popular black cable news pundit, but what the hell do I know?

Besides, Berners gonna Bern no matter what I say.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[VermontKevin]

282. Carina Driscoll---anyone keeping up on that race?

[MaryMagdaline]

357. Come back, Barack!

He always pulled us back together. Eye on the prize.

[ehrnst]

277. Hillary said less than flattering things about women who accused her husband of affairs

and she was called "anti-feminist" for that by many Sanders supporters.

I wonder if this will be applied to Jane now.

[BoneyardDem]

281. hope you are not holding your breath

[ehrnst]

283. If I did

I would be in worse shape than Jane would be after defending Bernie all the way through a presidential campaign, with actual GOP opposition research coming at him.

[Cary]

305. Seems like a valid opinion to me

Correct or not, it's reasonably objective.

I don't see that Bernie Sanders has done me any good and I see no reason for hope that he ever will. I don't have anything against him but I do look forward to the day when he is no longer an issue.

Joy Reid, by contrast, is awesome.

[Lazy Daisy]

321. Good for you Jane

Someone needed to tell her to step off. Joy needs to pull that burr out of her butt if she's going to be any good to the Democrats. Constantly attacking a Senator who is still very popular with a lot of Democrats isn't going to do us any good next year.

Meh, didn't care much for her before dislike her even more now. I don't watch her show & turn her off when she guest hosts. Maybe MSNBC will get the message if enough people do.

[MaryMagdaline]

354. Joy is the greatest

She tears into RWingers on a daily basis. Sharpest mind on TV. I think she is better than Rachel and Lawrence. Ari a close second. I did not know that Bernie does not get invited to her show? The two of them could do some major RW slaying.

[Skittles]

324. Joy speaks the truth

Jane does not like that

[KPN]

364. What truth? How do you know it is "truth"?

Do you have facts to base it on?

[WoonTars]

329. Fabulous response.

Reid needs to get over her butthurt.

[Blue_Tires]

330. I've been telling y'all that Konst is a piece of shit

and the sooner Bernie realizes this and cuts her loose, the better....

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[disillusioned73]

358. I think Nomiki is great.. ;)

The PTB really think people aren't paying attention to what is going on.. news flash

[Blue_Tires]

361. You *would* think that...

[disillusioned73]

362. If your good with the status quo..

u would call someone a piece of shit for pushing for much needed reforms on the DNC "unity" committee..

[disillusioned73]

374. Why Nomiki rocks.. ;)

[NCTraveler]

349. Joy stated facts. Nothing more. Each point can be backed up.

The ability of some to ignore facts in order to worship their idol is what has gotten us to where we are today.

[KPN]

356. What facts?

[NCTraveler]

360. They are very clearly stated in Joys tweet. nt.

[KPN]

363. Lol. There are no facts in the tweet.

What facts do you see specifically? I don't see any.

[BoneyardDem]

365. Just saying

Since you are unable to see any facts, what portion of Joy's statement do you find non-factual? I'm sure we can find examples to back up everything she said. This of course assuming that this thread is so long you didn't bother to read all the verifications posted a few times over.

[KPN]

366. All of it. Show me anything that is a fact.

[BoneyardDem]

368. take a moment and read through this thread...there are several videos

and until you are more specific our convo is done. I really and truly dislike doing homework and wasting my time on those who chose to ignore info that has already been placed before them.

[KPN]

369. Thought so -- you can't.

Just as Joy Reid can't.

You are wasting your time. Not me though, I'm calling you -- holding you accountable for promoting made up facts, especially when they disparage someone as honorable as Mr. Sanders. I would say the folks who do so are doing so because they have a vendetta against Mr. Sanders, but that would be making assumptions.

[BoneyardDem]

370. ahhh. the not so clever comback from the person who refuses to do their own work

who must be spoon fed info by others...otherwise it's FAKE NEWS...now where do I hear that on a daily basis.

Sanders is not a Dem, IMHO he had helped put Trump in Office and I have no problem with Joy's FACTUAL and honest statement.

[KPN]

371. Thought you were "done with this convo"?

Gotta get the last word in I see. Go ahead. Have at it.

[ananda]

355. I agree.

Joy Reid is wrong on this one.

Sanders is one of the best!