I don't believe a single one of Frankens accusers

[Egnever]

Not one of them.

I believe Matt Lauers, I believe Roy Moores, I believe Conyers, just not Frankens

At worst I think Franken may have inadvertently touched breasts or butts during photo shoots. Hell I have done it myself taking photos with friends or family. Beyond that I find this narrative to be complete bullshit.

I find the idea Franken is a serial groper in front of cameras wildly unbelievable.

This is a brazen attempt to do two things IMHO. One to remove one of the most effective Democratic senators in office and secondly to keep all eyes off the tax bill.

I find it almost unbelievable that so many buy this obvious republican BS.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. I completely agree.

[yuiyoshida]

62. I think its a set up to undermine Democrats

and he will not be the only target.

[BigmanPigman]

82. Yes, expect more of the same GOP dirty tricks.

Did you notice we haven't been hearing about him very much since last weekend? He apologized, welcomes the Ethics Committee's investigation, and is not resigning. When you compare these allegations with Lauer he looks like a choir boy. It was a total scam from the start...if Stone knew about it ahead of time you KNOW it is GOP BS. They are not good at governing or crafting legislature but they are great at lying, cheating, dirty tricks and fraud. Why are they in charge of all the branches of the government...because they play dirty and the goal is MORE MONEY FOR THEM and FUCK everyone else.

[underthematrix]

2. I agree as well. And so far these are the only accusers I don't believe

[MFM008]

3. Yup

It's horse hockey.

[2naSalit]

4. K&R

[Scruffy1]

5. you are correct.

The liar in Texas said she didn't remember who she voted for. If you believe that I've got some Arizona beachfront propert I'd like to talk to you about.

[Dawson Leery]

6. I agree.

Liberals MUST STAY AWAY from the USO tours.

[atreides1]

7. Especially

When none of the pictures show any actual groping! And I have a problem with three of them remaining anonymous, too!!!

[pandr32]

8. Agreed

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Nor do I.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't believe any of these women if they were leveling

these exact same accusations against, say, Ted Cruz, either.

[dsc]

37. the tales are problematic no matter who the accused is

I have some serious problems with the anonmynity of many of the accusers. I also find the first one a bit hypocritical for doing to men what she complained about being done to her. I would have the same issue if it were Cruz

[ollie10]

47. This is, from an objective point of view, probably a set-up

That would be true, even if it were Cruz as being the accused.

Actually Cruz, and his father, were accused of crazy shit. Such as his father being in on JFK's assassination. And hints of an affair.

Lots of us did not believe the horse shit spread about Cruz.

So, maybe you could reconsider....

[jberryhill]

76. Case in point - Joe Barton

I'm still waiting to find out what it is that some people believe he did wrong, given that he was in a consensual relationship, and we got rid of adultery laws years ago.

[customerserviceguy]

141. He let someone take a picture

of his dick, with his face in the shot. It doesn't speak well of his judgement, but it will be up to the voters in his district to do something about that, if Barton decides to run for Congress again.

No, it's not sexual harassment, but it is stupidity, and sometimes that gets a person in trouble.

[jberryhill]

148. Yes, that's what I mean

Most people here have not reflexively suggested that Barton did anything other than engaging in ill-advised consensual activity.

[toddwv]

147. Apparently, Barton hasn't done anything criminal.

But when you spend your career complaining about how homosexuals are destroying marriage, you PROBABLY shouldn't get caught sending dick pics to one of your many "consensual" relationships before you actually divorce your wife.

[SJMULE]

145. CNN and GOP pundit Amanda Carpenter

basically admitted to an affair with Ted Cruz. You dont see much crying from the left excoriating the hypocritical Christian conservative for his adulterous behavior. Franken is a total setup. His Hollywood/ SNL past made it too easy. and the latest woman is completely full of shit

[Kleveland]

11. I agree, but I also believe..

That the onslaught of all of these "allegations" is no coincidence.

There is some planning from somewhere perpetrating these squirrel chases into our public consciousness.

It is as if there is a massive effort to make us all numb to absurd floods of immorality, so that we will just fall into "The boy that cried wolf" reality.

There is so much bad shit going on, you could not write a horror film that was this terrifying.

[davekriss]

70. This is true (or so I believe)

[prayin4rain]

12. Agreed. nt

[niyad]

13. the fact that his snl coworkers defend him tells me the truth. a serial groper would not be able

to keep his hands off even his coworkers.

[wryter2000]

51. And his congressional staffers

And Randi Rhodes who worked with him for years at Air America.

[spanone]

14. think about it...not one republican congressperson has been accused of sexual impropriety....

since this stream of accusations has appeared

the odds alone are against that.

[rainin]

64. Yes! n/t

[B2G]

68. Yes, there has.

Wesley Goodman - November
Jeff Hoover - November
Tony Cornish - November

[PDittie]

99. Joe Barton.

Resigned today.

[question everything]

15. He should stop apologizing and just deny

Except for that USO photo before he ran for office.

Let's everything fall into the "he said/she said" category.

[Gothmog]

16. K&R

[OnDoutside]

17. Even Randi Rhodes (who has had her own arguments with Franken) thinks this is bullsh*t.

[Butterflylady]

18. Absolutely agree

[brooklynite]

19. Since nobody's calling on Franken to resign, and the major accuser accepted his apology...

...is the rant really necessary?

[kcr]

29. You've got guts.

I'll give you that.

[ret5hd]

81. Well, "guts" is one word for it...and you have used it in a syntactically correct manner.

But, I will add, there are other more accurately descriptive words available in the English language.

[WinkyDink]

128. Aren't there always?

[Demit]

20. Right. And all the stories are from 10, 11, 13 years ago.

None more recent. I wonder why that is.

[WinkyDink]

129. Hardly the measure of veracity.

[Demit]

135. It certainly gives the lie to "he is a serial groper."

[WinkyDink]

137. See: "Moore, Roy."

[Demit]

142. There is corroborating evidence for the claims against Moore.

From the mall, from the cop assigned to watch over the cheerleaders. From people who worked with him.

And—I've never used this phrase before, but—your casual equating of Al Franken to Roy Moore just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

[EricMaundry]

21. Thank you

I agree. And don't forget, this all could have been put together
by Trump's campaign manager in Russia.

[Silver Gaia]

83. More likely Roger Stone, IMO.

This setup stinks of him.

[dhol82]

140. +1

[mythology]

22. This article seems appropriate

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

Be careful about believing what you want to believe.

[Sailor65x1]

28. Yes that article nails it well

In the engineering world, where I live, we have to be very careful of things like this. In the political world, and places like DU, I'd say it's insidious and everywhere.

[madaboutharry]

41. Thank you for the link.

This is a very interesting article. It explains a great deal of our experiences with people, including people in our own families.

[joshcryer]

92. Oh man, it is entirely unreasonable to think serial groper is Franken's character.

It just belies belief. There's no world in which it makes logical sense. For one, it would've come out years ago if it was remotely true. This isn't a position of power and fear of recrimination situation. This isn't a rape with pills and shame. This is accusations of public impropriety at large events with multiple witnesses.

[rpannier]

156. That's not entirely true

Have you ever served in the military? In a combat area?
I was US Army and in the first Gulf War -- though it wasn't much of a war by comparison to others
Officers put in charge of entertainment are supposed to keep everything flowing smoothly
An accusation against one of their main performers/celebrities/etc would be a problem -- One that would likely make its way into his jacket come the next OER review.
Most service members, including officers and senior NCOs don't get a lot of training into how to handle these situations.
In the early 90's I was named the assistant NCO for EEO complaints. We spent three days in 'specialized' training, most of which was statistics based, how to write a report, etc. It did have some useful information, like 'dos' and 'don'ts' when interviewing complaints.
One thing they stressed was, most field officers and NCOs when a complaint is lodged against someone who is of higher ran or a 'person of significance' (which in a USO tour Al Franken would apply), the officer on the scene will often ask multiple times, "Are you sure?" and will often remind the soldier "This could be truly damaging to that person's reputation." and "If you're lying, you could be brought up on charges."
In a combat area, there is a real sense of isolation. Making a complaint against any individual could isolate you from everyone else; that includes making complaints against one of the main performers, because the show could get postponed or cancelled -- great way to make enemies and, as a civilian, get you kicked out of the area.
It's likely there are hundreds, if not thousands of unreported complaints in that region that we'll never hear of, because the culture out there is not interested.
Also, take time to read ESPN's website when there has been a charge of violence or sexual assault against an athlete and read the voluminous number of posts about how the woman is just trying to get money. This place has been little better with the number of 'experts' on how people respond to being violated sexually, that eerily resemble that ass-circus Moore's expert opinion.

I am not saying Franken did what is claimed -- that picture is just creepy. Sorry, but I think it is. A 50-something year old man acting like he's 15. I am almost the age he was when the picture was taken and I'd never do something like that. I never did anything like that when I was in the service.
But, to claim it wasn't a position of power or possible recrimination for reporting is not necessarily true. Depending on who the OIC was for the Tour, it could have had recriminations for reporting because it would have negatively impacted perceptions of him among the higher ups, especially anyone who could be involved in his evaluations.

For me, I don't know. I wasn't there. The picture is a snapshot of a moment -- a moment of stupidity, similar to people posting on Facebook and then surprised when it bites them in the ass. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to a point.
But the other thing we were taught from the class was, "In 90% of sexual harassment and sexual assault cases the charges are 100% true and of the 10% that aren't, it's usually most of what they said is true, but one or two facts may be incorrect. It's less than 2% that are not true.

[beaglelover]

23. Me either.

[CatMor]

24. Neither do I

[mreilly]

25. I don't either and I'm not paying attention until...

.... Moore and Trump are called out for their behavior.

As long as they keep lying and denying it and their supporters just keep screaming: "Nuh-uh! NUH-UH!" then they can go fuck themselves. I don't pay one ounce of attention to the obviously Republican-engineered mess they're trying to smear Franken with. Period.

[JeaneRaye]

26. Agreed

I absolutely agree with you. And so does anyone who has ever worked with him.

[Chasstev365]

27. It's rightwing pay back for nailing Sessions on his lies!

[grandpamike1]

30. you forgot

The one that most of us believe, Trumps, accusers.

[mainstreetonce]

31. I agree

Nothing that happens at a photo op with people viewing it is equal to assault.

[msdogi]

32. Amen

Thanks for this reminder. Al is a great Senator, we need him just where he is.
I stand with Al.

[m-lekktor]

33. I don't feel right taking a side/commenting on any of them. not a single one.

I am agnostic. I also can see why women hesitate to come forward, if at all.

[Dorian Gray]

121. I'm with you.

[Mr. Evil]

34. In republican world this is SOP.

They hate Al Franken. It's that simple and will do anything to tarnish him. This is straight out of their smear-and-fear playbook.

[Kimchijeon]

53. IKR? And yet so many fall for it like chumps

And are tempted to chime in with 'me too' imagined scenarios. Ugh. If we're this fucking dumb we deserve what we get.

[oberliner]

35. This is an amazing admission

And even more wild that so many agree.

[Meowmee]

36. Agree

And all this happening now is no coincidence. No dem should resign unless they are a murderer/ rapist, child abuser or have committed heinous financial crimes.

[Dorian Gray]

122. WTF?

This is tribalism.

[MontanaMama]

38. This is a total hit job on Franken

and it is my hope that the ethics review/investigation will bear that out...if he can just hang on long enough. He seems genuinely thrown for a loop by his accusers. If I had his money, I'd hire private investigators to rat out the cabal that set him up.

[zaj]

39. I wondered the same thing until a friend shared her own story.

This is a friend of a friend story.

Last night I was having drinks with a friend of mine. She is from Wisconsin and has lots of friends and family in the upper-midwest. She explained that long before any of this had come out... several years ago... she was speaking with her own friend from Minnesota. And her friend told her (again several years ago) about her own encounter with Al during his Air America time at a party/fundraiser event. They took a photo together and he put his hand on my friend's friend's butt at that time. It was unwelcome and notable enough that she remembered it and told my friend the story.

So, my friend told me about her friend's first-hand experience with Al touching her

Take this for what it is.... I'm a random person on the web telling a story about a story.

But it changed my sense of what I think about Al's story. And I'm really sad to say that.

[PatSeg]

40. I don't believe them either and

I am afraid the republican dirty tricksters will try to take down more politicians this way. Women are finally being taken seriously when it comes to sexual assault and republicans are taking advantage of it with their sleazy Lee Atwater tactics.

[scarletwoman]

42. I'm with you. I believe this is clearly a hit job. nt

[LisaM]

43. I think he may have acted in a way that made people feel uncomfortable, but

I don't personally believe that he ever meant it as harassment. It may just be the way he is - some people are more openly affectionate than others. Sometimes I think we've all just become afraid of touching people at all.

[Vinca]

44. I find it curious that during the current "discussion," there have been no allegations

against Republican members of Congress. Many of the scandals past have involved them - Vitter, Mark What's-His-Name who liked male pages to name 2 - but all of a sudden they're seeming pure as the driven snow. This almost seems to be an orchestrated attack against Franken.

[PDittie]

100. Joe Barton.

Resigned today.

[Vinca]

124. But he managed to semi-successfully paint himself as a victim because releasing the photo

was supposedly the revenge of a former lover. OMG . . . did I just say that? Sorry - have to go and

[PDittie]

155. Yes.

I was only speaking to your false statement about "no republicans..."

Since yesterday. Blake Farenthold has also been exposed as using taxpayer funding to settle a sexual harassment claim.

[Sophiegirl]

45. I had the new CEO of my company pat my behind once.

Was taking a pic of him and his wife. I was in the middle. When he realized his mistake, he turned as red as Rudolph’s nose. He had been distracted while talking to other folks next in line. He was so embarrassed he had trouble apologizing. Especially since his wife noticed his discomfort.

Now that I know them better, chances are good that she would have laughed her ass off because that is not in his nature. She and I look similar.

Took him weeks before he would look me straight in the face.

Franken was a comedian. Comedians to politically incorrect things all the time. I do not believe his actions were meant to be predatory.

[hurple]

48. If any of the accusations are factual

And, I'm having trouble believing most of them are... THIS is exactly what I believe to be what's going on in every case. Well, except the Tweeden one, where it has now come to light that it was a staged photo.

My wife has taken photos with several celebrities and in the turmoil has been "touched inappropriately" multiple times. It's always... always... been brushed off as an accident inherit in the chaos of the moment. Get in, pose quick, get a photo, move to the next person in line.

It happens.

In Franken's case there is absolutely no circumstantial evidence that any of these accusations are anything more than an accident of circumstances. None. No predatory behavioral patterns, no corroboration from *witnesses*, not even any actual photos where he actually is groping someone in sight of the camera (which is especially odd since the accusers claim he groped them during the taking of the photos.)

Also odd that Franken only seems to grope republicans and no democrats. It's like he asks what party they are prior to the groping.

Until concrete evidence of a pattern of predatory behavior (like has been provided in the cases of trump, moore, weintein, spacey, et al) is provided I will continue to say this is all bunk.

[WinkyDink]

132. Take a look at some photos and tell me you can see what's going on behond people's backs. I'm not

defending the accusers. I'm pointing out the lameness of this "defense" of Al.

[hurple]

149. I'm not one of those

who's saying that Al's hands never went anywhere inappropriate... ever. I'm saying that I don't believe he ever did what they claim intentionally with foresight and purposefully with the intention of sexual mis-conduct. I'm saying the accusers are reading into the situations intentions that were not there, making mountains out of molehills, and basically over-reacting to what at worst should be an oopsie. I think at worst, Franken is guilty of overstepping his bounds regarding invading someone's personal space, not sexual harrassment. And, I will continue to think that until someone offers evidence (even circumstantial) of predatory behavior (i.e. mall cops told to watch for him because he has a habit of groping women, or someone to come forward saying it's well-known that he likes to grope women during photo-ops and has since SNL.) So far there is NO corroborative evidence for any of the stories, not one. Not even the photos show anything amiss, nothing. The excuses have been, oh I moved, or I was in shock, but there is no evidence from a look of astonishment in any of the photos I've seen. Not. One.

So far his story stands up to scrutiny, there's do not. Unlike the case against moore, trump, weinstein, spacey, C.K., and others, where the women's stories are holding up under scrunity and theirs are laughable.

I can tell from the photos that he likes to get in tight and "snuggle" with the other person and when celebrities do that, in a photo-line or open public setting, these things happen because you literally have seconds to get in, pose, snap the pic and move to the next person.

[WinkyDink]

131. Louis CK is a comedian.....

[Sophiegirl]

152. Yes he is.

But I also believe that distinctions can be drawn.

[pamdb]

46. Franken

The last one is an investigator for medicare fraud, which raises the red flag for me (think voter fraud) but also is a registered republican and voted for the big orange asshole. Anyone that stupid, I have a hard time believing. Plus she's grinning in the picture.

[Kimchijeon]

49. Yep the Franken ones are bullshit.

Like you said the worst case scenario is to me just normal human contact for a close photo etc. Feigned "trauma" by bullshitters, shills. Nice try scumbags. Don't believe any of it.

[wryter2000]

50. I don't either

And it occurs to me they have more than one reason to do this.

1) They can make us cave and get rid of Al.

Maybe more important:

2) This is a message for their supporters that Moore isn't so bad. Look at what the liberals do. They're just as bad. Remember, the thing with Conyers only just now came out. Before that, they didn't have a prominent Dem to pick on.

As someone once said about Fox news--they don't have to win the argument. They only have to muddy the water.

[lostnfound]

136. The GOP has a third goal...tarnish and weaken Al

He has the ability to communicate a progressive message effectively and to tear apart lying weasels like Sessions giving testimony.

[ChubbyStar]

95. OP has been on DU for over 14 years

But keep fighting for our futre!

[cubbies01]

54. Yep

I don’t either. To start with, there is the slow roll out of the grouping stories, seemingly timed to keep story alive. If he was a serial grouper, there would be dozens withinn 24 hours of Tweeden.

Next, compare the steadfast support of all women he worked with.

Finally, there are holes. Like a husband taking one picture. Or a woman claiming he grabbed her whole breast for 15 seconds. While someone took a picture. Or the whole bathroom thing.

[George II]

55. I've said this before - anyone who rides the NYC subway to work invariably touches....

....butts and crotches of people of BOTH sexes. It's impossible not to.

Except for that alleged "kiss" (alone backstage at a USO show moments before going out to perform? GMAFB! Backstage was probably a madhouse) all of Franken's accusers were people having photographs taken in public.

The other thing is that Franken immediately addressed the issue and handled it perfectly.

[Sophia4]

56. Let's see what Franken says.

But it is clear that the modus operandi of the Republican machine is to find some accusation or event and hype it until a Democratic candidate for the presidency's reputation is ruined.

And then we get a serial marrier and molester like Trump out of it.

How long has Franken been married?

What does Frannie say about all this hullabaloo?

Have any women come forward with an allegation that is about more than a brush of hand or shoulder by Franken during a photo op?

[Tipperary]

57. I do not believe them either. Eom

[tomp]

58. Also, to give cover for voting for Moore.

Context is everything. This is also why trump endorsed moore at this time.

[alwaysinasnit]

59. I agree

It doesn't seem likely that when you are hamming it up in front of the camera as Franken apparently does, that you are intentionally groping. It does seem that Franken's situation is different than Conyers. All I have heard about Conyers is payouts without any particular details. Regardless of what Conyers may or may not have done, I am extremely dismayed that the Democratic leadership is calling for Conyers to resign while remaining conspicuously silent about the alleged "groper in-chief."

[gopiscrap]

151. welcome to DU

[alwaysinasnit]

153. Thanks

Thank you for the welcome. I know this sounds creepy but I am a long-time lurker. I have enjoyed reading posts from the members and I wanted to reach out and celebrate that this forum exists; to know that such sympathetic, intelligent, and thoughtful people exist.

[gopiscrap]

154. Your Welcome

[BlueIdaho]

60. A long time ago Lee Atwater taught the republicans how to win.

He was the master dirty trickster who would do anything and say anything, no matter how disgusting, as long a a republican would end up in office. His ends justifies the means philosophy has become SOP for a soulless, gutless, chicken shitted, hard hearted party where winning is everything and lack of decency is a badge of honor.

Al Franken and his honest and genuine heart got played by the disciples of Atwater and we need to stand up and call bullshit on this hatchet job.

Thank you for this tread.

[GoCubsGo]

63. Yes, this is right out of his playbook.

That includes the anonymous accusers, who make it a point to claim that they're "liberals." They're probably the same people who call into C-SPAN and liberal talk shows claiming to be "lifelong Democrats," and then proceed to spout a litany of right-wing talking points.

[wolfie001]

86. Roger Stone was a former Lee Atwater protege!

Rotting, fetid piece of shit he is!

[BlueIdaho]

87. I know!

These bastards were all tied up together with that master crook Richard Nixon - later would come Ronnie Raygun. I think it’s important to keep the genealogy of evil in our minds. These asshole have been corrupting the political process for decades.

[wolfie001]

88. You must have a wealth of stories....

.....about your fellow Idahoans. Such a red state! Stay safe!

[BlueIdaho]

98. No Kidding...

It’s a beautiful place but the politics are completely bat shit looney tunes crazy.

Thanks for your well wishes.

[rockfordfile]

61. I agree. There should be and I will be a ethics investigation.

[rainin]

65. I don't either. n/t

[Orsino]

66. I really, really want to believe in a conspiracy to take down Franken.

So much so that I can't let myself dismiss the allegations.

[paulkienitz]

67. I find it hard to disbelieve ALL of them

but I also find it easy to believe that almost any man could find someone somewhere in his past who could voice a complaint, possibly a legitimate one.

Garrison Keillor recently said that he's taken lots of selfies with fans where their hands strayed onto his butt, possibly without them being aware of it... I believe that. This doesn't mean I disbelieve any one person who complained about him.

In the process of transitioning from a society which tolerates harrassment to one which does not, we may have to go through a period where we have no idea how to hold ourselves to standards which we are actually capable of meeting. The way to work that out, I think, is to just go forward and do our best. That's what people are doing today. We'll get to a good balance eventually. For now this unstable and difficult time may be the best we can do. We may make mistakes but that doesn't mean we should try to go backwards.

[Duppers]

69. Amen!! K&R

I've been shocked at number of DUers not understanding this was a RW ploy.

[Honeycombe8]

71. I gotta agree with you, Egnever. I won't say they are all lying.

That's a bridge too far. It's possible that his hand or arm brushed past a rear end while taking pics in close quarters/crowds. I also think it's ridiculous to think that USO show photo shows Franken groping. He is not touching her, from what I can tell. It's just a joke. Bad taste, maybe, but not harassment.

Franken has a lifetime of credibility, standing for women's rights, being respectful to others (incl women), working with women...there is nothing in his personality, character, or life, that lends any credibility to such claims.

Even if they were true, though, these allegations are not even close to being in the same league of Matt Lauer's or Roy Moore's.

[marieo1]

72. egnever

I agree, 100%........CNN is even pushing this!! All the gals that have said are known DJT supporters, imagine that!!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

73. The idea of him groping women left and right

Leading up to his Senate run in 2008 and as a Senator WHILE TAKING PICTURES with constituents strains credulity for me. I don't doubt that, throughout his long career as a comedian and writer for SNL and USO participants, he has done some sophomoric and juvenile stuff that has not been sensitive to women but I'm not yet convinced that he should resign, especially since he has made apologies and submitting himself to an Ethics Investigation, which is a helluva lot more accountability than what Trump, et. al have shown.

[Kahuna7]

79. There's a difference between groping and goosing..See my post below. nt

[ananda]

74. Me neither.

Franken is one of the good guys.

Conyers on the other hand, well ....

[LenaBaby61]

84. Franken is one of the good guys.

Conyers has a stellar record on Civil Rights and on many other things.

However he's also 88, and on top of the sexual misconduct accusations/verifications emerging, it appears that he's had some type of mental deficit as well for a while he's working with (A friend whose lived in Michigan many years of the political persuasion told me about some of the things of a sexual nature Conyers it appears did stretching back over 10 years).

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Rec 100

I could not agree more.

This is a planned and executed ratfuck.

[tblue37]

77. + a brazillion. nt

[Kahuna7]

78. My take. He may have "goosed" women from time to time...

A lot of men have done that. I've been goosed by complete strangers who basically goosed me as they were passing by. Truthfully, I did feel violated and upset. However, I don't think Franken should be sacked for doing something that a lot of men once thought was a harmless prank.

[WinkyDink]

130. OMG.

[defacto7]

80. No doubt...

[barbtries]

85. totally agree.

trump - yes, he bragged about it; there is no doubt in my mind that all or certainly the vast majority of the women who have told their stories publicly are telling the truth. i'm too battle weary to discuss lauer, conyers, keillor, who's next? but i expect in many cases they are just plain guilty as hell. spacey, cosby. geez it does go on and on.

with Al Franken, it's not the same.

also, and i hope i can express this well, times have really changed. back in the 1970s i had experiences that inspired me to post "Me too" - some of them pissed me off at the time, in some cases i think i took it as a joke, and there were times when i was hoping the dude would "make a pass at me."

However, when a complete stranger (drunk) in a casino in vegas JUST THIS YEAR slapped my ass, I was righteously pissed and even considered flagging down a security officer to have him arrested for assault. (I am now 62 years old, very much overweight, and definitely not looking for love, which is to say that there was no reasonable way to excuse this man's apparent assumption that he could touch my body just for the hell of it - how dare he? My 2 grown sons actually laughed when I told them and one of them the other day said it was exactly my age and appearance that made it funny to him - but i protested and said he was not allowed to do that!)

i never reported any of these experiences, all of which fell far short of rape, to any authority. one was my much older photography teacher, who rubbed up against me in the darkroom. i recall being totally disgusted and thinking he was a fucking pervert but i did not take any kind of action. i was 18 he was probably around 50.

well my point is if these were men in prominent positions they might be getting called out now and most of them (said photography teacher not included) were actually not bad guys. Most of them no doubt grew up to raise families and were probably good to the women in their lives.

i don't believe that i suffered long lasting irreparable harms from these violations while i do believe they were violations. The fact that they remain in my memory tells me I was affected at the time, certainly. my house was broken into once too, but while it distressed me i wasn't about to let it change who i am or my approach to life.

There's been a consciousness raising going on and hopefully these mass reports of abuse will end the practice and men will be more respectful toward women forever from now on.

anyhow sorry for the rant but i am having trouble being expected to shame every man who looked at a woman or made an unwelcome remark or advance toward her. actual physical invasion is something else again, and what louis ck did is despicable don't get me wrong. also, i don't believe every charge being brought forth, particularly regarding Al Franken. it's bullshit.

dynamics between the sexes were pretty ribald during the sexual revolution, at least in my little hippie part of the world. at one point at a disco i agreed to dance with some guy and swear to gawd he seemed to think that by saying yes to the dance i was saying i wanted to fuck him. when i said no he said, "oh you're not feeling well?" seriously - he couldn't believe i just did not want to have sex with him. the world has really changed and hopefully for the better - more honesty all around, more respect for us all.

[Nevernose]

89. Moore, Lauer, Weinstein, and Conyers

Were investigated for months (in Conyers case by the government bureaucracy itself, although WHO tipped off the press remains unknown).

In Franken’s case it’s either anonymous people who approached second-tier news sources, or Republicans with photos that prove they’re not telling the truth.

The tecent accuser claims that Franken kissed her on the cheek, but secretly knew that he was REALLY going to try and open-mouth sloppy mouth kisser, and that he did this live on stage and knew that no one would suspect. And, in addition to being psychic, she’s anonymous. Yeah, nothing suspicious there at all, right?

[Yavin4]

90. We've just seen Project Veritas try to scam the WaPo

Isn't it credible that they would go after Franken?

[Nevernose]

91. Idiots claim UVA rape story is a hoax

At least according to the author of the latest Franken accusation. Is it any wonder why they picked HER to approach?

https://jezebel.com/is-the-uva-rape-story-a-gigantic-hoax-asks-idiot-1665233387

Ever since journalist Sabrina Rubin Erdely published her searing Rolling Stone story about “Jackie,” a woman who was allegedly the victim of a gang rape at a frat party at the University of Virginia, there’s been an ongoing and much-needed public conversation about the way rape and sexual assault claims are dealt with on college campuses. But Robby Soave at the libertarian magazine Reason thinks we’re talking about the wrong questions entirely. Shouldn’t we be asking, he wonders, if Jackie just, like, made the whole story up?

Soave writes that Erdely’s story is “not credible,” according to “journalists who contemplate such matters.” Which journalists, exactly? One, to be precise, a guy by the name of Richard Bradley, who writes on his blog that he doesn’t believe the story: “I don’t believe that it happened—certainly not in the way that it is recounted.”

Bradley writes that “something about this story doesn’t feel right.” He’s skeptical because we never learn Jackie’s real name (although he doesn’t acknowledge that no credible media outlet would ever use an alleged rape victim’s real name without her permission). He’s skeptical because Erdely doesn’t quote the friends of Jackie’s who evidently discouraged her from seeking medical attention or calling the police after the rape

[HenryWallace]

93. May I thank you all in advance for .....

Senator Moore

[budkin]

94. Why doesn't he outright deny it?

[PDittie]

102. Exactly.

He's apologized for several of these incidents, yet some would rather believe they just didn't happen.



(BTW, I don't think Franken should resign. But if he should, he had better be holding the door for Trump and Moore to walk out ahead of him.)

[pangaia]

96. "TAX REFORM!" Social Security ! Medicare, Net Neutrality ! Dementia! Psychopath !

Did I say...

"TAX REFORM!" Social Security ! Medicare, Net Neutrality ! Dementia! Psychopath ! ??

[alp227]

97. Even my buddy who's a conservative Republican & retired cop isn't buying.

He has a strong dislike for Franken but doesn't see real evidence of molestation.

[Loki Liesmith]

101. Belief doesnt matter

If they can prove their claims I’ll believe them. Until then they are just claimants. Not liars or victims.

[NoMoreRepugs]

103. Smells of Roger Stone and the alt-right IMO

[blueinredohio]

104. When is the investigation supposed to start?

[dewsgirl]

105. K and R

[Tracyjo]

106. Thank you. I'm glad you posted.

I agree completely.

[smirkymonkey]

107. I'm not buying it either.

Just another dirty republican hit job.

[Adrahil]

108. I hate not believing those women,but...

But this smells more and more like a political hot job.

[kimbutgar]

109. This is a Reich wing hit job to destroy a very effective senator.

If the Democrats take back both houses he will become judiciary chairman.

[stuffmatters]

110. Lie,cheat,pervert, pollute to win... this is THE Republican Playbook once again.

Can anyone living in 2017 not see this? And our MSM falls for it every time.

I guarantee the national evening news tonight will not be about how the Republican Senate is on the verge of satisfying their outright bribery pact with their donors by "redistributing" them our national safety net .

Within the last 24 hours, Marco Rubio has said out loud, on camera that the Republican Tax Cuts for the Rich deliberately
"sets up necessary cuts to Medicare and Social Security." Do you think that'll be on the national nightly news or CNN at all?
But "Franken touched her butt" that'll be on every channel.

[Lunabell]

111. I do

#metoo

[McCamy Taylor]

112. Agree. This has KIGB written all over it.

Gotta wonder if the KGB is blackmailing people to force them to make accusations.

It would be very easy for a Russia Spies to accumulate dirt of people close to Trump's enemies and threaten to spill the dirt if they do not do Putin's bidding.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

113. Im with you. There is NOTHING credible about any of the Franken accusers claims.

They all have ridiculously partisan, demonstrably corrupt connections.

Be brave, say Fuck Them, and don’t worry that you’d be “harming feminism”.

Because you won’t.

They are wolves for the Trumpland, posing as victimized Women. Believing them just because they’re Women is exactly what the wolves want. Because they want to trash Al Franken.

[JI7]

114. the accusations show a pattern of BS

a bunch of right wing trump supporters and a couple anonymous ones that try so hard to convince us how liberal they are.

when we look at the evidence in each case it reveals the bs.

[USsoccerfan]

115. There is a chance he is guilty of it

A lot of people here are the reason women are afraid to come out with such things because they are then labeled liars and ridiculed. This a giant step back for women when people who are fans of a politician defend him her no matter what. Let there be an investigation and see what comes out of it. Women feeling safe are more important than a politician.

[GaYellowDawg]

116. But it's much more likely, given what we know of his character, that he's not.

Calling out bullshit allegations as bullshit is not a "giant step back for women." And I'm going to have to strenuously disagree with your last statement for two reasons. First, burying Sen. Franken isn't going to make women feel safe, unless they're either political hacks like KellyAnne Conway, or they're blindingly stupid. And secondly, privileging bullshit allegations is not more important than our most effective Democratic Senator. Or have you not noticed that he's one of the few people actually standing between us and the Trumpocalypse?

Damn. Some people.

[WinkyDink]

133. Damn. Some people.---Meaning what?

[GaYellowDawg]

144. Meaning that some stuff that gets said here is unreal.

[JI7]

117. fuck Trump

[SusanaMontana41]

118. AGREE

It’s a setup.

[Cobalt Violet]

119. When one happens to not be a Trump supporter get back to me.

I don't trust Trump or his supporters. They're fucking nuts.

[JI7]

120. you even have the usual Trolls on DU pushing it

[harun]

123. They can make claims if they wish. Glad he isn't resigning.

[Historic NY]

125. I'm still waiting for the latest picture of Frankens alleged groping...

after all just how many photos did she have taken?

[democratisphere]

126. AGREED!

[WinkyDink]

134. Why do you believe the accusers of Conyers?

[samnsara]

138. i agree........

[HughBeaumont]

139. Normally, I would say "believe the women".

NOT here.

What's the joke now - "Does Senator Al ever grope non-Republicans?"

This is a ratfucking and calling for his resignation is falling for it sight unseen.

[lancelyons]

143. Has any media outlet did any credible reporting on this.

I agree this sounds like a setup with the Tweeden thing then Menz and now another trump voter Kemplin.

However I have not seen any credible media outlet chase that down. I think they are too afraid to have the wrath of Fox news come down on them.

[dewsgirl]

146. K & R

[Greybnk48]

150. I don't believe any of the Franken accusers either.

I think they're ratfuckers, but I believe the other women.