The Problem isn't Bernie Sanders. It isn't Hillary Clinton, either.

[MineralMan]

It's the Republicans. It's the Russians.

Bernie lost the primary race. That ended his run for President. That's history. We need to stop thinking about that and focus our attention on getting rid of Trump, winning back the House and Senate, and choosing outstanding candidates for every office.

Will Senator Sanders run in 2020? I don't care. I think it's highly unlikely he'd do any better than in 2016, and probably not as well. We don't typically like to put people who lost a presidential election back in the race the next time.

But it doesn't matter. What matters is regaining control of Congress and doing all we can to get rid of Donald J. Trump.

I don't care who supported whom last year. I don't care who said mean things about him - or about Hillary Clinton, either. It doesn't matter a damn. There is a Republican in the White House, and a doltish, stupid, malevolent one at that.

Let's focus on the next challenge, shall we? Let's just move the fuck on, shall we?

That's my rant for the day.

[Wellstone ruled]

1. You are so right.

People have to get out of the Past.

[Hekate]

2. 5th Rec for your rant

[MineralMan]

3. Thanks! Nice to see you!

[trotsky]

4. Yeah but somebody needs to suffer and grovel because I didn't get what I wanted.

That's what's REALLY important here.

[MineralMan]

6. As they say in my adopted family and state: Uff da!

[sprinkleeninow]

11. Well, hello there. We're on the same wavelength with this.

~sprink
💓󾓦💪🗽

[bluedigger]

5. The problem is getting dumb voters to vote Democratic.

The GOP is really good at that.

[MineralMan]

8. The problem is to get Democratic voters to vote at all

in mid-term elections. We're not really very good at that. We need to get better, and damn quickly, too.

[bluedigger]

16. It boils down to two basic strategies.

Either get disaffected voters to the polls, or convert the opposition. Both seem to be heavy lifts.

[sprinkleeninow]

19. Getting turned off voters to polls is the easier of the two, kinda.

Conversion of the 'others' is chop busting.

Those need to come to the end of themselves and see the 'light'. They're hardcore industrial strength and a breed unto their own.

[treestar]

84. Some of the opposition is really dumb

There were said to be voters that voted for Obama who then voted for Donald of Orange. Those people are dumb enough to easily influence.

[alwaysinasnit]

28. For what it's worth

I think that a segment of the millennial's and Gen X group might be more easily reachable (the ones between current activists and the totally disinterested), but what I have learned from my Gen X son is that outreach by my generation to these younger voters is handicapped by a perceived attitude. I have noticed that some from my (older) generation think of the younger generation as lazy, apathetic, and self-absorbed. There may be some truth to that but such a generalization is very damaging when trying to connect with them to discuss voting issues as these young people are well aware of this generalization. My son agrees that there is a general feeling of resentment because of perceived lack of respect (and possibly to not being taken seriously) by my generation. I have been trying to figure out ways to reach out on a more personal basis (social media is dead in the water according to my son). Any input would be much appreciated.

[radical noodle]

43. The older generation is rarely thought to know anything

until the younger generation becomes part of an older generation. Life experience is a great teacher that many young people don't get. This isn't new. When I was in my 20s I thought no one over 30 could be trusted. Now I'm 70 and have seen a lot of things over the years that taught me new lessons. Older doesn't always equal wiser, but it can. There are bad and good in all age groups.

[alwaysinasnit]

57. I agree

Thanks for your thoughts and insights. Are there any lessons you've learned over the years on how to better connect with younger adults that you would care to share?

[radical noodle]

61. A few things that work with some

Don't criticize their clothing, music, hairstyles... all the things our parents criticized... those are totally unimportant to the big picture. Talk to them about their dreams, their problems, and their life. Let them know that we had similar problems ourselves so we understand. Listen and discuss, don't preach.

Welcome to DU!

[alwaysinasnit]

63. Thanks

Thanks for your thoughts and welcome.

[treestar]

83. This

People who voted for Obama and then Trump are easy to influence. I wonder that Democrats don't do it. Sure it abandons the high ground some, but if the right can do it, so can the left. Even things that are untrue - they believe them uncritically, so why not use that for the greater good?

[sprinkleeninow]

7. I am farrrr behind in my daily routine. Due to catching up on the latest.

The laundry has danced 💃out of the washer and dryer 👕👚👗👘👙🥋👑 and is now performing antics in front of my face. They need to be reckoned with! 🤣

What you said. Emphasis on future votes at the ballot box.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes. I did five loads of laundry this weekend. Feh!

And then my beloved wife brought home new towels from Target. So I did another load. I learned long ago that new towels MUST be laundered before use. Otherwise, they're freaking waterproof.

[sprinkleeninow]

12. Not just that, but lots of times they shed lint bad on other items

which will get you steamed. 😣

[MineralMan]

13. Oh, indeed they do. I wash them separately for at least three cycles.

You definitely have to clean out the lint filter in the dryer, too.

[sprinkleeninow]

17. I may be a tad of a germaphobe. I wash everything that doesn't

move. And also anything or anyone that do!

We do not wear any clothing twice, except for a jacket or coat. They get washed or dry cleaned with regularity. Showers at minimum twice a day.

I had an infection in one of my 'underarms' when a teen. Our ol' fashion family doc told my mom I was too clean, to quit using deodorant, and let her get down in the dirt! 😮 😄

I don't think he prophesied. He only called things as he saw them.

Now everybody knows something personal.
My schtick is cathartic for me.
I do not care.

[Ken Burch]

22. Did not know about the waterproof thing. Thanks.

[MineralMan]

64. Yup. They're treated with something that keeps them

fluffy and soft on the display shelves. I don't know what it is. It's also waterproof. I learned that the first time I tried to use a new towel. Washing removes whatever that is, though.

[MineralMan]

10. One other thing: I don't care what someone blogged 10 years ago,

either. I'm listening to what people are saying right now. If they're saying good things, then I'm OK with that.

Hint: I like Joy Reid. She's doing a great job right now.

[sprinkleeninow]

14. A voice of reason you are. We got a lotta work to do.

Onward and upward!

[Blue_true]

15. The important thing is Joy Reid changed her views.

Look at the Joy Reid of today. Some won't do that, they dredged up stuff against Hillary from 1996 that was not even her doing.

[herding cats]

49. I only learned about all that last night.

It's a shame she was raked over the coals for a bad thing she said 10 years ago. She apologized, and now people need to move on.

I'm not the person I was a decade ago. I've evolved and learned much in this past decade.

[questionseverything]

78. see that's hypocritical...your rant is to move on but

it was joy that attacked bernie and his wife

so clearly she has not moved on and frankly

she has attacked hc, bernie and gays in general....that isn't cool by me...seems like she bullies to me

[Left-over]

18. I am in total agreement.

[Ken Burch]

20. Pretty much agree.

What matters is the future and running campaigns that bring people to the polls in '18 and '20.

Bernie and Hillary are both good people, both deserve respect, but they aren't the point and we shouldn't be rehashing old personality debates about either of them.

[Beartracks]

21. Righteous. GOTV 2018. n/t

[Jakes Progress]

23. I agree, but you have to beware the shiny.

Unfortunately, we have a sizable number of Democrats who are just as susceptible to shiny object syndrome as most republicans. So we can kum-ba-ya and march and slap each other on the back all we want if come the month of the election some russian or koch sponsored social media blitz starts to dangle a shiny.

Now for republicans, a shiny would be a gay marriage or an immigrant or a muslim walking down the street. For those who identify as Democrat, a shiny would be a juicy story about how one of their very own is a corporate stooge or a wife-beater. Just look at how many here and in the "liberal" press jumped on the Franken story. If we don't examine how vulnerable we are to lies and distraction, we won't be on guard and they will do it again.

Some people went around during the primaries and after with stories about how Bernie was tax cheat or claimed that Hillary was a tool for corporate interests. (Some still do.) Those people fell for the lies. They were duped. They were weighed and found wanting. If we don't examine what happened last year, we won't see it coming when the shiny is dangled before us next year.

So I agree that the republicans are the ones who deserve our scorn. But we need to be reflective and watchful.

[lark]

24. Thank you!

So tired of the lame Hillary and the Dems first types around here. Clinton did not lose the race, it was stolen from her by a hostile foreign country to kill America and the dotard went along with this because he cares nothing about the country, it's people or our constitution - only about himself and his $$ and will destroy the world in his dementia just to get $$.

[StevieM]

30. Our own FBI did more damage than the Russians did. And if someone else had been the nominee

they would have targeted him or her too.

[mvd]

25. We don't always agree, but I wil rec your thread

I would gladly vote for Bernie again and think he would do well in a more open race. I also don't feel attacking Hillary is productive, even though I wasn't a fan and think she should have won the electoral college (unless the vote was rigged - a possibility.) Focus should be on the future.

[StevieM]

31. The FBI rigged the whole election on multiple occasions, and you can be sure that if Bernie

had been the nominee they would have done the exact same thing.

[mvd]

44. I don't disagree they had influence. But I am sticking..

with my point. It is to argue on other threads anyway.

[StevieM]

45. I would argue--on this thread and on all threads--that they dominated the race from start to finish.

eom

[mvd]

48. And we can have differing opinions

I do agree that Trump collided with the Russians and that was an obstacle.

[StevieM]

50. I agree that we can disagree. I think our own FBI did far more damage to our democracy

than Vladimir Putin did.

And I think it was a lot more than an obstacle. I think without repeated interference from a corrupt FBI we would have easily won by double digits.

Of course, that isn't too impressive an accomplishment, given that our opponent was Donald Trump.

[mvd]

53. Well, we both agree on the most important thing - stopping Trump

And it's possible they rigged votes. This gets bigger all the time. If they rigged the votes, I would say it is 100% Trump/Russia that she's not President.

[Mountain Mule]

26. Couldn't agree more!

And I voted for Bernie in the primaries. But that was then and this is now. The orange parasite reigns supreme in DC and we all must united to rid ourselves of the Monster!

[Perseus]

27. Well said, just widen your scope

We need to get rid of many republicans, Ryan, McConnell, the entire Trump family, Tillerson, and many more in Congress and Senate.

Pointing out Trump alone is to narrow of scope, the cancer is much greater.

[MineralMan]

66. I said exactly that in my post.

Taking back Congress it the first priority. If we can manage that, our presidential candidate will win in a landslide. We all vote on the same day in 2020.

[LiberalLovinLug]

29. Agreed

And its telling that we have many on this thread agreeing with this from all corners of the tent.

I also think that Democrats should shed the old guard. That Schiff or even Kamala Harris, should step up.

But, a big but....is that if Sanders retains his "most popular politician" position leading up to 2020, and if he was still healthy enough, we would be stupid not to promote him. Because whether you think he's too left, or if you still hold grudges against him for giving Hillary a run for the money, if he is our best chance at that time, which frankly I kind of doubt, but IF so, and he wins, he'd drag a whole lot of Democrats to Washington on his coat tails.

[StevieM]

34. I don't think any HRC voters are holding a grudge--or were ever upset to begin with--against Bernie

for "giving Hillary a run for the money."

I assume that Bernie is running. Biden too. There were be a lot of people running. Probably at least 20.

We should promote whoever wins the Democratic nomination. Before there is a nominee we should promote our terrific field of candidates.

[stuffmatters]

32. Agreed 100% It's us against them,not us against us.And we need more us not less.

At what point does the circular firing stop doing the work for Trump, Putin, and evils overthrowing our democracy?

[StevieM]

33. The FBI was a lot more damaging then the Russians were. They set out to destroy the Democrat

and elect the Republican.

And I am pretty sure that Bernie is running again. Which is fine. Anyone who wants to run should run.

[Stryst]

42. I think one of the things that hurts us

is a concept that the Republicans have down to a science; be the big tent for all the little parties. There are distinct elements in the republican party who do not particularly care for each others. Those are vectors we should be jamming wedges into. Instead, we seem to focus on "not good enough".

Let me give you an example; I'm pretty active in the marijuana legalization movement. Every single year, every single ballot initiative gets multiple versions, because everyone has their pet issue that HAS to be in the bill, or they just refuse to vote for it. In Washington, I had friends and fellow activists tell me flat out that they wouldn't even consider voting for the bill because it didn't include home grow.

The concept of the foot in the door seems lost on us. Meanwhile, the Republicans are eating statehouses, because they understand the value of one step at a time.

But what do I know... nothing is what I know.

[lunamagica]

56. Are you aware that Hillary Clinton is a private citizen?

[lunamagica]

62. So, if what you say about the independent is right, he is just doing his job, and so are

all the Democratic Senators who are fighting against this bill

Funny, I'm always reading that Hillary is the one who needs to "shut up and go away".

And yes, this is a great country were people can write books. The independent has done so, and has promoted his books by taking time from his job as a public servant...great country indeed.

[JHan]

71. yeah quite there were quite a few books about last year

she wasn't the only politician who wrote one Funny who is peddling and who is not, different strokes for different folks.

[radical noodle]

60. This is the kind of post that starts to stir up trouble

Hillary is not in public office, Bernie is. She is speaking out about what Trump is doing but doesn't get the same sort of coverage. These posts that make Bernie a hero and Hillary a "book-peddler" don't do anything to end divisions, nor does the suggestion once again that Bernie didn't really lose the primary.

Every time I see a post like this one from Mineral Man, I have hope that this is finally over. Then I stumble across someone who posts something like this. Again.

I am not going to say anything further because I agree with Mineral Man. This needs to stop but will not as long as this stuff keeps popping to the surface like a dead body in the river.

[JHan]

70. "who is out there today"

lots of folks doing great things who aren't in Sanders' orbit.

smh.

[Plucketeer]

73. Stealth Reps

[JHan]

74. .

[lagomorph777]

36. Yes, please. We are looking in the rear-view mirror as the car drives into a wall.

A big beautiful wall, the best wall the world has ever seen.

[mainer]

37. YES. I'm tired of Bernie Sanders being blamed for Trump's win.

He lost the primary. He accepted it and told his supporters to vote for Hillary.

I was one of his supporters. I voted for Hillary.

[Honeycombe8]

38. I agree. I'm going to vote however it's best to WIN WIN WIN. And WIN some more.

WINNING is what we need.

[marble falls]

39. Thank you!

[kimbutgar]

40. Exactly stop looking backwards and look forward to kicking the gops a$$ in 2018.

Hurt them so bad they are stunned into submission.

[tomp]

41. Wrong.

The problem is capitalism/cororatism/imperialism and colluders with same. Not all coluders are republican.

[MineralMan]

67. Oh, bother...

[tomp]

75. oh, so sorry, you're right, the problem is the republicans.

what on earth was i thinking?

[grandpamike1]

46. Yes

Out with the old, and in with the new, young, articulate, progressive voices, that proffer a platform that is inclusive, and stand up to and for it. Don't be afraid to stand up for actual, true values, even in the firestorm that will be coming from those who are still clinging to power, and want to keep at all costs.

[radical noodle]

69. There is something to be said for experience

I don't agree with throwing out the old and replacing them all.

[leftstreet]

47. Technically, Sanders didn't lose a POTUS election

Will Senator Sanders run in 2020? I don't care. I think it's highly unlikely he'd do any better than in 2016, and probably not as well. We don't typically like to put people who lost a presidential election back in the race the next time.

He lost a primary

You make some good points. And who knows what the political atmosphere will be like heading into the next POTUS election

[lunamagica]

51. Just look at the response to your thread to see the problem

Digs at Hillary while saying how super-awesome Sanders is compared to her and he should run.

That is a problem.

[betsuni]

65. Yes.

In this thread Hillary is called a book-peddler who goes on talk shows, insinuations that the DNC rigged elections, Democrats want Bernie to keep his mouth shut, they have blinders on and are in a cult, that they hold a grudge because Bernie gave Hillary "a run for the money," they're colluding in corporatism/imperialism.

That's not going away. I, for one, will read every book about 2016 that I can get my hands on. Mueller's Trumpgate is going to be about 2016. Hell of an important year.

[MineralMan]

68. Most in the thread are in agreement.

That's what I'm seeing.

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. Worse, trump is about to bomb NK to take heat off of what are certain more indictments or arrests

very soon.

Graham tells military families get out of SK.

I am certain we will go to war and it will be BECAUSE putin and trump want to avoid justice.

[Leith]

54. Absolutely Right!

I supported Bernie, but I voted happily for Hillary in the general election.

There is no way in hell I will ever vote for anyone with an R after their name. Local, state, or national - it doesn't matter.

[Sophia4]

55. Thank you, Mineral Man.

You don't win future fights by rehashing old ones over and over.

A review, a critical review is helpful. But when we churn past failure like butter, it will after a time, turn into something inedible.

We need to unite progressives/liberals and win elections in 2018, 2020 and on into the future.

Wanting to be "right" and show others to be "wrong" is a strong human urge, but in politics it has to be focused on the "others" who are the problem, not on "others" who can be allies.

All of us must work together to win in 2018 and 2020. No stragglers. None at all.

It's hard, but we have to reunite.

Both Bernie and Hillary would want us to do that.

[Mike Nelson]

58. This is...

...so true. It's not about Hillary or Bernie... or Obama... and any of them worth anything will say that... It's about jumping the bar even though Republicans have placed it higher. We need to jump higher... and we can. We have the correct message and we have the numbers. We must get control of Congress - both houses are possible.

[JHan]

72. ALl I'll say is the populist wave of thought last year

was deeply problematic. Wherever it came from. And it'll be problematic for a while.

[NurseJackie]

82. It's the "Susan Sarandon types" who think "destroy to rebuild" & "burn it down" are good policies...

... and who continue to attack and smear the Democratic party (and Democrats) ... and who insist on reshaping the Democratic Party in Sarandon's image.

People like Sarandon (and Sarandon's defenders) continually lay blame at the feet of loyal Democrats, while continuing to pour gasoline on the embers. Weird.

[JHan]

89. kind of but more the idea .. the very toxic idea...

which has always been the populist selling point: that there are simple solutions to complex problems. I'll always remember last year when the idea was floated that congress could have overturned Citizen's United. Which had loads of people wondering "well why hasn't Congress overturned Citizen's United", revealing an incredible ignorance about Scotus decisions and precedents. The populist feeds the belief that solutions are just sitting there and the reason those solutions haven't been implemented is because other people in the system are corrupt, not "Fighting for the ordinary man" , which in turn makes them and them alone look good, and then voters, unaware of how governance works, of what the branches of government do, the limits of executive power etc, start to think the whole system is terrible and become cynical and come to believe there's no point. And as they think that , they cling ever to the idea that only one person can solve it, only one Man.

[NurseJackie]

90. BEWARE of anyone who says "All-we-need-to-do-is..."

BEWARE of anyone who says "All-we-need-to-do-is..." whenever they're explaining their "solution". At best, these individuals are doing little more than expounding on a problem and (as you rightly note) they have an incredible ignorance of how the system works.

Even worse... when POLITICIANS make that "all-we-need-to-do-is..." it's not out of ignorance. I'm convinced that they actually know how the political machinery works. Instead, they say such things (and make false promises) to get ignorant and gullible people to follow them (and donate money).

I see this type of behavior with Trump... but I can think of a few other well-known politicians that this also applies to.

[JHan]

93. i'd add another meme became popular last year...

that there's no difference between the parties - "Tweedle dum tweedle dee" this is unforgivable.

Every bit of social progress, every argument won for civil rights, social justice, as been largely due to the Democratic Party. Whether it's Medicaid or Medicare or Social Security, Integration, Civil Rights Act , Title IX, Roe V Wade, labour and environmental protections ( And Nixon doesn't get full credit for that since it was democrats who formulated the legislation) Obamacare, Obergefell was due to Democratic Politics . And I was told last year, that the party, the apparatus which made those things possible was fundamentally no different to the Party which opposed this progress. Basically I was told the parties are "Tweedle dum and tweedle dee" and the party of regulatory oversight was actually the party in the pockets of Wall Street. And so the meme went, devoid of facts or sense. Advocacy groups long working in the fields, became "establishment" for reasons we know. If folks think this rhetoric didn't poison minds, they must be living in a parallel universe because it surely did.

[MadDAsHell]

76. We couldnt get women to vote for the first female GE candidate.

The 44th consecutive male President got a higher % of the female vote than she did.

With with all due respect, yes, it’s us and our messaging.

“Trump’s worse” was an awful strategy considering we were running “the most qualified candidate in history.” That is playing not to lose, and it WILL LOSE again in 2020.

[JI7]

79. most non white women did vote for Hillary . white women who voted for Trump voted for bigotry

and Clinton got millions more votes .

[VOX]

77. Damn straight, Mineral Man!

Well said and an excellent Rx for moving on.

[sammythecat]

80. I'm right with you

Yammering on an on about the past is a futile waste of energy. We're in a lot of trouble right now. We need to deal with the present and the future.

[aikoaiko]

81. Unfortunately the resentment against Sanders burns intensely

And it taints too many discussions at DU.

You've even had to defend this thread from the taint.

[lunamagica]

86. The "taint" I see on this thread is against Hillary

[Pauldg47]

91. I see tat too!

[karin_sj]

85. Agree 100 percent!

I'm so sick of the divisiveness of pitting Democrats against each other, when we should be sticking together against the nightmare we are all now facing. All the attacks on Bernie Sanders, the "far left" Democrats, or any other perceived differences do not serve any purpose other than to weaken us. This is one of the reasons Trump got into office in the first place, by turning us against each other during and after the primaries. Yes, let's move the fuck on, PLEASE!

[Wounded Bear]

87. K & R...for truth...nt

[Ferrets are Cool]

88. Thank you

[IronLionZion]

92. I'd like to bring back the 50 state strategy and compete everywhere

and really focus on having good candidates running in local elections as a way to build up their constituency and support for higher office. Every little election is important. We need to be a winning party again.