So my straight employee was sexually harassed last night by 2 gay men in front of his wife

[titaniumsalute]

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 09:09 AM - Edit history (1)

This wasn't a work related function. He attended a concert with his wife FRIDAY night at a large arena. The couple are in their late 50s. He was in the lounge that was associated with the suites they were guests of and he told me that 4 guys started talking to him. Nice guys, 30 somethings. Talked for a few minutes. He said like a light switch two of the guys started touching his leg and arms and saying things like "what are your plans after the concert, etc." He told them they (he and his wife) were simply going home afterward. They became very forward, asking if he'd like to go out with them afterwards, etc. They actually told him, in front of his wife, to "ditch her" and come with them.

She was so upset she walked away and he followed shortly thereafter. (needing to stay to pay his bar tab.) He was really shaken this morning...not because they were guys hitting on him but simply that they were so rude to his wife.

Sexual harassment can happen at any time I guess but it seems with everything going on people would at least reign it in a little bit.

ON EDIT: I had the wrong date of the concert. It was Friday night, not Sunday night. Thanks to the impeccable deep journalistic detective work of one DU member I have changed the OP to read Friday night.

[Angry Dragon]

4. ...........

[Egnever]

2. Oh good lord

[Archae]

6. It happens. It happened to me decades ago.

In a YMCA a guy grabbed my butt in the shower, I told him to knock it off, he said, "You want it, I know it."

It's not sex. Never was.

It's a power trip, just like what the employee experienced.

[NCTraveler]

10. You stuck around with him in the shower after your wife left crying?

Interesting Y you went to.

[Archae]

11. Where the hell did I say that?

No.
I pushed the guy away and threatened to call the cops.
He walked off, haven't seen him since.

[NCTraveler]

21. Exactly.

Point made.

Thanks.

[obamanut2012]

103. hahaha

[pnwmom]

142. The employee said that he stayed to pay the bill. nt

[NCTraveler]

147. Rude people can be tough.

As I said, not the same.

[pnwmom]

151. The employee, according to his story, was harassed by men who had been drinking,

and his wife was upset enough to leave, and he stayed to pay for their drinks.

Are you implying that he was enjoying the attention from the men, and that's why he stayed? I wouldn't draw that conclusion. Like many women in this situation, he was probably in shock and didn't know exactly how to respond, without acting like a jerk himself. In the face of sexual harassment (and in this case by multiple harassers) many people's instinct is to freeze.

[NCTraveler]

193. I made no such implication or inference.

What I did imply was extremely clear. I don’t know how to make it more clear. I boiled it down to a three word sentence in order to avoid confusion.

[pnwmom]

196. I just looked at all your posts above this one and have no idea what you're referring to.

And I'll continue to say that the behavior described here is no more okay when the target is a man than when it's a woman.

[NCTraveler]

201. Good on you. Nt

[whathehell]

257. "Grabbing" people, I.e. molesting them, isn't rude, it's illegal..

Whatever their their orientation.

[Egnever]

18. You must have been scarred for life

As a straight guy who has hung around thousands of gay guys in my day and been hit on hundreds of times in various different ways including butt grabs.

I gotta say I never felt it was sexual assault despite the fact there isn't a gay bone in my body. I definitely jumped a couple times because it caught me by surprise but I always took it as flattering. But then I am not hung up on people touching me.

I suppose you could see it as sexual assault but good lord.

With women it is different they have no power in the dynamic I don't see it nearly the same with men. Maybe in a work situation where it is the boss doing it but in a social situation not at all.

[pnwmom]

186. The power dynamic was present in this case, too.

There were MULTIPLE men going after him in a group -- a clear imbalance in power.

If this occurred it was just as much sexual harassment as what happens to women. I hope you have never treated women this way, outside of a familiar relationship, because "butt grabs" to strangers are a form of sexual assault.

[Egnever]

198. and yet he just walked away

sorry not seeing it.

On a woman's side it is a situation where they are constantly on the losing side of the power equation. Constantly.

While this may have been uncomfortable if it happened it was one short episode where the shoe was on the other foot for this guy. Personally I would have found it amusing had it happened to me because short of actual assault it would have zero effect on me.

Someone touching my butt does not induce fear in me. Someone finding me attractive and making that known does not induce fear in me. Someone suggesting I ditch my wife and come with them only makes me laugh.

It is not even close to the same thing because as men we don't have to live in fear of sexual advances our entire lives.

If it happened I have no doubt it made him uncomfortable but in my mind that does not come close to sexual harassment. Were it a woman surrounded by men my attitude would be much different because of the underlying dynamics.

In this case I would be willing to bet the guy it happened to was a homophobe and was so geeked out by it he blew it completely out of proportion.


I used to work with a guy who was a homophobe and one night the gang decided to all go to a gay bar after work because it was close and one of our coworkers was a gay guy and asked us to come. This homophobic guy came with us after some prodding. His discomfort at the bar was freaking hilarious and he was uncomfortable talking about it for weeks.

I suppose you would say we sexually harassed him by pointing out his discomfort but I honestly couldn't care less. The guy was a dog with women and it was fucking hilarious to see the shoe on the other foot.

[pnwmom]

205. "And yet he just walked away"???? That is all women usually do when they're sexually harassed.

That doesn't mean the men haven't done something offensive. If this wasn't a gay bar, they shouldn't have been harassing a straight man who was there.

This isn't about how YOU felt. Maybe you are more confident than other people. My brother was sexually harassed (by his supervisor, at work) and he didn't find it amusing. My husband, as a college student, had fallen asleep on a bus, and woke up with a hand on his crotch, and he didn't find that amusing.

Gay men don't get a pass on sexual harassment just because they're gay. To suggest otherwise is a backhanded insult. The expectations for gay people should be just as high as for straight people.

[moriah]

251. This is almost like the person who seemed to suggest...

... that alcohol-facilitated sexual assault "wasn't the same" when it was two openly gay men compared to a heterosexual woman and a man.

Now, I'll admit my sex has some stereotypical weaknesses. We do have smaller bodies so probably lower alcohol tolerance, just as we are generally smaller framed than men so probably physically weaker than them. But notice how many "probably"s there were. As in, there are women who can drink a man under the table, there are women who can pound a guy in the dirt.

But it doesn't matter if a person js a guy or a girl. Whatever their alcohol tolerance is, whatever drugs might be influencing their tolerance, when a person is unconscious from anything you take care of them, you don't take advantage of them.

And let me ask you this. You, I'm sure, know that boys are sexually abused. Most males who sexually abuse boys people aren't "gay", even if they choose a male victim. They choose targets of opportunity (just as in prison men rape who aren't "gay", but found a way to humiliate/hold power over someone and get their rocks off at the same time). They might prefer girls, but if all they have is a boy available, there's not that much difference between their bodies pre-puberty besides the actual genitals. Essentially, if they're hairless, they're game. It's sad, but true.

And a child doesn't understand this. It has effects whether the victim was going to be straight, bisexual, or gay once they actually grow up enough to understand sex and sexuality and figure out those feelings. I know from hearing my father's experiences as a bisexual man. He really had a very difficult time trying to figure out if it was his feelings or the abuse, and numbed himself often to have sex. Women who are victims of childhood sexual assault, by men or women, often have bad reactions to sexual touch they don't want, that triggers them, too.

Would you potentially have a different reaction to a man grabbing your ass if it triggered you into remembering a sexual assault?

And given that even though male on male child sexual assault is underreported precisely because of the stigma of "gay" being attached in the child's mind, and we know there are enough documented and reported incidents to say it's far from uncommon... is it fair to assume *only* women have experienced power differential dynamic abuse from men enough to take them seriously vs dismiss a guy who got his ass grabbed?

[moda253]

190. Hold the fuck on....

Anyone coming up to you and grabbing you is a no-no. I don't give a fuck if you are a man, woman, trans, or if you are gay Bi hetero whatever. Someone invading your personal space and grabbing your body is absolutely out of bounds.

That is absurd (and downright fucking sexist) to say that it is different with women.... blah blah blah.

[pnwmom]

207. I agree. It is sexist and undermines the truth that gay people and straight people

are equal, to make the claim that there are different moral standards for how to treat others when it involves gay people.

[whathehell]

255. Thank you..

[whathehell]

259. "I always took it as flattering"

Did you thank them for the compliment?

[Egnever]

263. Sometimes

[whathehell]

264. Uh huh..Sure..

[Egnever]

277. Different strokes I guess

I like gay people they don't scare me even when they are flirty. YMMV

Typically when people are flirty it's because they are attracted to you. I am not put off by people being attracted to me and if they break boundaries I have no trouble telling them so while at the same time appreciating the compliment even if it is ham fisted.

What do you do? Scream at every person that is attracted to you that you don't find attractive that touches you? or is just when men do it or women do it?

Clearly you seem to see it as a threat.

On a personal level I certainly respect peoples space but when it comes to people and me meh it would have to be pretty extreme to bother me.

[whathehell]

283. Yeah, right..

It's a long way from "screaming" at someone, to actually being "flattered" and complimenting them for their unwanted sexual touch.


Then again, I can't say I've hung out with "thousands of gay guys" and been "hit on by hundreds". That does seem an unusual amount of

exposure and experience for a straight man..

[Egnever]

287. Good lord

[whathehell]

289. If you say so

[Codeine]

3. Cool story bro.

I was riveted.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. This is hilarious in so many ways.

[LanternWaste]

7. No subtle counter-narrative here.

No subtle counter-narrative here.

Subtly is a lost art, it appears.

[NurseJackie]

182. ###

[NCTraveler]

8. No doubt that sexual assault is a mans game.

This is still complete bullshit.

[Archae]

12. Yup. "Gay guys do no wrong..."

[Codeine]

16. Considering the nigh-universal condemnation

of Kevin Spacey for sexual harassment and assault here at DU one imagines the rejection of this post had less to do with "gay guys can do no wrong" and far more to do with "this story doesn't even BEGIN to pass the smell test."

[brush]

109. I don't get why some think the OP is not believable. Actor Terry Crews just recently recounted...

Last edited Wed Dec 6, 2017, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

that something even more outrageous happened to him at an awards banquet.

A prominent bigwig in the film business openly grabbed his crotch, in front of his wife.

Stuff happens.

Straight men sexually harrassing and or abusing women is not the only way sexually harrassment occurs.

[moda253]

195. I am appalled at the narrative on display here

When I was about 16 years old I went to a rave (yeah I am old) in Minneapolis and I had to use the bathroom. I went into a stall to pee in which door didn't lock and there were two guys behind me. I didn't notice that one of them had held the stall door open and walked up close behind me and started asking me "do you need any help with that?" and "Can I hold it for you". I was skeeved the fuck out. When I tried to get out of the stall he did NOT make it easy for me to leave. Now this guy is pretty well known around Minneapolis although I haven't seen him in quite a while, but he was an older guy by about 10 years or so than me. But back in the day I would see him all the time at first avenue or glam slam (as it was back in the day) at shows and stuff.

Now I don't know if this guy knew I was 16 or what, but he was bold enough to sit there and try and con me into something in front of other people so I have to believe he wasn't a pedo weirdo or anything like that. Just a guy trying to pressure someone into a sexual situation. People do shitty things to get what they want. And that's true no mater what their sex or orientation is.

[pnwmom]

220. Me, too. I think sometimes people react this way because they don't want to be homophobic.

But this reaction doesn't support the true equality of gay people and straight people. They're both capable of the same range of human behavior, good and bad.

And sexual harassment is sexual harassment, no matter what the gender or orientation of the parties are.

[whathehell]

256. I do hope Terry Crews -- or his wife -- responded

to this aggressive pig n a manner that might deter him from doing this again.

[malaise]

114. ROFL - It sure doesn't pass my smell test n/t

[NCTraveler]

17. A claim I've only seen you make.

Or are you attributing it to someone else. Not sure how you are using quotation marks. Seems they are your words and only your words.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Of course they can but the OP's likely apocryphal story isn't an example of it.

[irisblue]

30. Huh? Where did you get that? nt

[snooper2]

14. Around 15 years ago I used to get hit on by a guy who was our resident engineer from Lucent

The most he ever did was the "lovingly rub on the back" thing


It happens- some humans are just always horny

[NCTraveler]

20. I don't think it is non-existent.

That has nothing to do with this made up story.

I've been assaulted. I didn't have the required size or opportunity to fight back. How did your "resident engineer" story end?

[snooper2]

25. He was around for 2-3 years, I felt bad for him because outside of earshot people would do gay jokes

So I went above and beyond to make him feel inclusive and was extra nice-

Maybe he saw that as an opening, hell if I know..he was gone when our contract with them was up. I just remember working to not sit directly next to him when we went to happy hour after work (which was a lot in those days)

[NCTraveler]

28. Much different than my story.

It's a mans game.

Big difference in being “respectfully” hit on as a man and being assaulted as a woman.

[pnwmom]

260. The man in the OP wasn't "respectfully" hit on.

He was approached by a group of four men who touched him on his arms and legs, and pestered him with pleas to ditch his wife and go with them.

That was obnoxious behavior, not respectful.

[titaniumsalute]

95. Oh the story was made up? Really?

Thanks for your feedback. I shared an anecdote from an employee who's worked for me for 10 years. I trust him. He has no reason to lie about it and I can tell he was distraught over the story.

[obamanut2012]

105. lulz

[NCTraveler]

122. Yes. Made up.

I never said he made it up. Incorrect assumption on your part.

[titaniumsalute]

126. You said

>>That has nothing to do with this made up story. <<

Oh so you are saying I made it up? Why the fuck would I make this up? Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Demsrule86]

306. I think it is an attack on Gay people, and made up too...not by the poster, but by the one who told

the tale...rings completely false.

[tazkcmo]

137. I have my own stories

I'm not going to share them, they're deeply personal and while technically some of it may be sexual harassment or even assault, none of it qualifies me to say I've walked a mile in a woman's shoes when it comes to sexual harassment or assault. Not even a foot.

[pnwmom]

262. Every woman's experience is different and so is every man's.

Although women are probably more likely to be victims of sexual harassment, you might have experienced something worse than a particular woman has gone through. My brother had a worse experience in one of his jobs than I ever had. He had to quit it for that reason.

[pnwmom]

258. Then they should go rut on a tree somewhere, not on a human they've not involved with. n/t

[beaglelover]

9. Z

[cwydro]

57. Gotta agree. nt

[obamanut2012]

107. yup

[titaniumsalute]

121. Why?

I relayed a story told to me.

[BoneyardDem]

15. Well I suppose there are all sorts of stuff and some really want to tell a tale

can't really tell you that I'm buying it. I understand you have no reason to lie, I have no reason to believe or not believe your retelling of the circumstances, it's just sounds....off. Sorry.

[hexola]

19. I was recently sexually assaulted by a gay guy too...ongoing.

Sitting at the bar - and the guy reached over and gave me a thigh squeeze!

Saw him the other day at the store - and he said "I heard you could use a hand"

Next time - I'm going to light him up...

[Doodley]

27. How is that sexual assault? Yes, it is unwanted. It is an invasion of your space.

It is touching you do not want, but sexual assault?

[DrDan]

31. unwanted touching is sexual assault

[Codeine]

40. On this we agree.

The tale in the OP is a lame fantasy presented with a clear agenda, but you're entirely correct about the nature of an unwanted, sexually-charged touch.

[brush]

120. I don't get why there are so many doubting responses to the OP.

Actor Terry Crews just recently during the Harvey Weinstein revelations recounted that something even more outrageous happened to him at an awards banquet.

A prominent bigwig in the film business openly grabbed his crotch right in front of his wife. He reacted by moving the guys hand off of him and yelling, "What are you doing?.

The guy was inebriated and just tried to laugh it off .

Straight men sexually harrassing and or abusing women is not the only way sexually harrassment happens.

[titaniumsalute]

125. Really what agenda might that be?

I let me guess I hate gay people or something? Yeah that must be it event though my best friend is gay and my sister is a lesbian. Yeah. Ya got me.

[pnwmom]

265. You don't know that. The story is believable to me.

Swap the genders out and tell me it could never happen, a group of men harassing a woman.

Then tell me why gay men, under the influence of alcohol, would never be as obnoxious as straight men.

[whathehell]

276. Of course it is..Thre seems to be a certain level of PC discomfort here..

and that's resulting in a certain amount of denial.

[Doodley]

45. Touching a hand or an arm is sexual assault?

[DrDan]

49. unwanted touching is sexual assault

here is but one link agreeing

https://centerforfamilyjustice.org/faq/sexual-violence/

[hexola]

76. He grabbed my thigh - ya know - the area between my knee and penis.

You'd think this clown would be smarter than this...

New doctor in town...just elected to a political position...and sexual assaulter...apparently.

[Doodley]

209. I find it unacceptable, but that wasn't the point I was making.

[Tipperary]

246. Why not tell him to stop doing that? Seems simple.

[pnwmom]

266. Because the offense has already occurred. What seems simple is that people should keep

their hands to themselves and not get grabby with people they don't know.

[Doodley]

187. Okay I better not shake hands then.

[DrDan]

216. unwanted . . . get real

[Demsrule86]

307. No it is not... as a survivor of sexual assault...I can tell you it is no such thing.

[DrDan]

323. this organization would disagree with you

https://centerforfamilyjustice.org/faq/sexual-violence/

[Demsrule86]

340. I don't give a damn...this muddies the water...my attacker was a stranger and there was

extreme violence; I barely escaped with my life...you can throw all the bullshit you want with this organization or that organization, touching a person's thigh is not assault. And I am one of the fortunate ones...I was assaulted but not in the end raped. comparing the touching of a person's thigh to assault /rape is ridiculous.

[DrDan]

342. and exactly who compared touching a person's thigh to rape

[Demsrule86]

354. Lots...read through the replies.

[pnwmom]

130. On the thigh it is sexual assault. Don't EVER touch a woman that way,

unless you are already in a relationship.

[hexola]

194. I told a waitress in the same establishment about this - she said...

You'll have nice red welt on your cheek if you do...!

[pnwmom]

199. And the other factor is that a woman in this situation

might be able to slap a man without fearing retaliation.

But if a man slapped a man, he might find himself in a fist fight.

[Doodley]

211. I have never touched a woman or a man inappropriately and never will do.

[moda253]

197. Are you for real? Seriously?

this has to be a bit right?

[Doodley]

212. Yep, I'm for real - and I find unwanted touching, bigotry or power over others unacceptable.

[pnwmom]

213. Then why are you justifying sexual harassment when engaged in by a group of men on a man? n/t

[Egnever]

35. Did you try telling him you aren't gay?

Might try that first. Just saying.

[hexola]

74. He knows Im not gay - my girlfriend is one of his patients.

I guess since he sees that I have gay friends - he thinks he has a chance...or that Im some frightened, closeted gay guy?

[bettyellen]

91. He knows you're not bi or curious?

[hexola]

192. I don't know what he thinks

Im good friends with other local gay people - maybe he has the wrong idea...

Doesn't seem like an excuse though - does it?

[bettyellen]

204. for the leg touching? Nope. But if it was a brief accidental touch while getting seated .... it's

Hard to say, but I don't think a jocular "ditch your wife" means anything except they thought you were good company. We're these superiors at work and you felt jobs were in the line? Was there anything actually overtly sexual going on? Were these 30 somethings underlings and a bit clueless? It wouldn't be memorable to me, but hey- I was actually assaulted and harassed and it wasn't anywhere near this ambiguous.

[pnwmom]

217. It wasn't a brief accidental touch while getting seated. He said that the man "reached over"

and squeezed his thigh. That was deliberate. And the question later about needing a hand was deliberate, too.

[bettyellen]

219. None of that is in the OP. He must have needed to add more damning details because the OP was vague

And could have been a misunderstanding. Sounds like this was written to intentionally elicit these sorts of responses.

[pnwmom]

221. This whole thread was in response to Hexola's post #19, not the OP.

But I don't see how men in a group harassing a man with his wife is a "misunderstanding."

Two of the guys started touching his leg and arms and saying things like "what are your plans after the concert, etc." He told them they (he and his wife) were simply going home afterward. They became very forward, asking if he'd like to go out with them afterwards, etc. They actually told him, in front of his wife, to "ditch her" and come with them.

[bettyellen]

224. Well when discussing harassment in the workplace, status matters greatly. Strange it doesn't to the

OP, but yeah- I think it could be exaggerated or a misunderstanding. Or bullshit he made up to bait folks.
If everything is sexual harassment, nothing is.

[pnwmom]

226. If this same scenario happened to a woman by a group of men,

with them touching her arms and legs and trying to get her to ditch her partner, wouldn't you acknowledge this was sexual harassment?

[bettyellen]

228. Ask strange that it was 2/4 and I guess the other guys just gawked at them?

How'd this "leg touching" work exactly? Because it's the only damning part, but the scenario sounds super hunky.
And why aren't we informed of their relative work status- that sure as hell raises the stakes for women in the office all the time. Funny how it has no impact here.

I'm a pass on believing this happened. If it did, the report wouldn't be so fuzzy. It's a set up.

[pnwmom]

229. What does work status have to do with it? It wasn't a work related function.

And sexual harassment can occur in any setting, including a bar.

And gay people and straight people are equals -- one group doesn't get a special pass for sexual harassment.

[bettyellen]

232. I got confused as the context was "my employee" and work place harassment is more serious/

Has nothing to do with gay or staraight. Don't you dare put words in my mouth. THis isn't about your son, chill out.

[pnwmom]

234. "Don't you dare" and "chill out."

The irony.

[bettyellen]

236. This is obviously way too personal for you, and yore ascribing homophobia to others here...

only because it is personal to you- not because anyone is actually being homophobic. If you can't chill, I'd recommend an apology and swift exit. You're embarrassing yourself over what seems to amount to shitty fan fiction.

[pnwmom]

267. Back at you. n/t

[pnwmom]

215. What does that have to do with anything? A gay person doesn't have any more right

to grope someone's thigh than a straight person does.

Meaning, no right at all unless they're already in a sexual relationship.

[bettyellen]

218. Was there a grope? The touching arms and legs thing sounded odd/ like maybe inadvertent while

Getting seated? Was also confused because it sounded like underlings were harassing a boss... so much missing it makes it a strange story.

[pnwmom]

225. From post #19

Sitting at the bar - and the guy reached over and gave me a thigh squeeze!

Saw him the other day at the store - and he said "I heard you could use a hand"

Next time - I'm going to light him up...

[hexola]

321. It wasn't "inadvertent" - 100% intentional.

The guy was talking to someone on his left...as he gestured with his left hand - he reached over, under the bar and grabbed my thigh - and gave it a few squeezes...his hand mere inches from my penis.

And as I said - he joked about it a few days later.

Look - I do have a lot of gay friends (none of who have ever put a move on me!) - and since this is a small central PA rural town - we tend to hang out in the same Pub.

Who knows - like I said - small town - lots of gay people - maybe he got the wrong idea by the company I keep...

But even so - still not appropriate...especially given the current climate.

[pnwmom]

328. It wasn't appropriate and never has been appropriate except in settings

where people might expect it.

[moda253]

200. Why the hell does that matter?

Even if he was gay it still isn't ok to just go up to someone and grab their thigh!

What the hell is going on here.

If he was gay it makes it ok for someone to invade their space?

[Egnever]

202. Nope but it's a better idea than "lighting them up"

YMMV


In my experience of which I have a lot because I am not afraid of gay people and haven't been for decades. It works pretty well.

[pnwmom]

278. I am not afraid of gay people, either.

My father was gay. His partner was gay. Many of their friends and my friends were and are gay.

Gay people don't get a special pass to sexually harass people that straight people don't get. It's wrong. Period.

[Egnever]

279. yea cause that's what I said

gay people get a pass to sexually harass people...

[pnwmom]

281. It seems like you're making excuses for behavior that you wouldn't excuse

if it was four men touching and pestering a woman.

Of do you think the same behavior would be fine in that situation?

[pnwmom]

214. Why? Why do you assume that a gay guy would have welcomed a stranger's hand on his thigh?

Maybe some men would have, but not all.

For example, what if the guy who found a hand ON his thigh was a 22 year old, and the groper was a tipsy 50 year old? Do you think the attention would have been welcome?

Sexual harassment isn't any more okay when indulged in by a gay person than a straight person.

[Egnever]

247. You are trying so hard

Are you trying to suggest that he should attack the person instead of explaining he is not gay first.


Cause that's what he said his recourse is going to be. To "light him up"

Maybe you think that is the appropriate response.
I would call it an extreme over reaction but YMMV

[whathehell]

272. No, actually I think you are the one "trying so hard".

with little success, it seems.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Some gay men made an entreaty to a straight man and told him to ditch his wife ?

That story seems implausible. I would need much more evidence to believe it.

[Codeine]

26. All the young gay couples I know

like to publicly intercept men in their late fifties, try to separate them from their wives, and start crudely groping and man-handling them while lasciviously insinuating that it's time for a three-way.

Oh wait; no they don't, because that's fucking stupid and doesn't happen.

[FSogol]

43. LOL. This thread needs more door buzzards!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. There's a big world out there so it's hard to dismiss any story with 100% uncertainty.

But some accounts are so outside the realm of probability.

[titaniumsalute]

140. Frankly that is why I posted it

It's hard to believe it even transpired. In a bar was probably alcohol induced.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. Three points

1) Anybody regardless of race, gender, religion, or orientation, et cetera can be a sexual harasser/abuser.
2) The account seems outside the realm of probability. That being said it's a big, big world so it could have happened. It just doesn't seem plausible.
3) My comments are largely about the facts in the account, not you.

[titaniumsalute]

150. Hey thanks

I'm being bombarded in this thread. Been called an idiot, gullible, liar, and many other things.

I have no reason to doubt his account. It isn' like he's been a drama queen who makes shit up, causes problems, homophobic, etc. Never actually. Pretty straight laced dude. When he told me the story I was floored. I could also tell by his voice and demeaner that it really rocked him.

[yardwork]

181. I don't disbelieve your story. I hope your employee has more appreciation for how it feels, now.

It sounds like he's very upset by what happened. That makes me wonder how he would react to hearing that this happened to a woman. I hope he would be sympathetic.

I mean, you're not suggesting that it's worse because the harassers were gay, are you?

And the wife seems to be a bit of a drama queen. You know.

[titaniumsalute]

301. It doesn't make any difference if it were gay or straight doing this

and yes...his wife is a drama queen. But that isn't really the crux of my story.

[yardwork]

303. And I'm suspicious of his story. I think he had an agenda in telling you this.

Since he's your employee, you may want to give some thought to how truthful he is in general.

[titaniumsalute]

304. I've known him for years

There has never been anything like this in conversation. Unless he's getting dementia or something I can't imagine why he'd make this up. He was truly upset telling me this. It was behind closed doors in my office. No reason to make it up. I've never detected he's homophobic. He's not a church goer. So at this point who really knows.

[pnwmom]

282. Sorry about that, titaniumsalute. It seems so to me, too. n/t

[pnwmom]

275. This isn't about love or sexual desire. It was just a power play, mocking the man with the wife.

Most sexual harassment is a power play. This is another variation.

Straight men aren't the only people who can act like jerks, especially under the influence of some alcohol.

[pnwmom]

231. People under the influence of alcohol do stupid and rude things all the time.

And guys, straight and gay, make unwanted sexual advances.

I don't find the story inherently implausible.

[bettyellen]

237. I've seen the same thing joked about by folks of all genders and orientations- and publicly when

There is no power dynamic/ no harm done. The OP sounds more homophobic than any of the responses.

[Doodley]

23. He should have taken it as a compliment. I don't see too many reasons to be upset.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. That's the same attitude women have had to put up with since forever.

If some guy hits on you or gropes you you're supposed to take it as a compliment and not complain. Why should a same-sex situation be any different? It's unwanted sexual attention either way. Contributors to this thread seem to assume the incident has been made up. Why?

[Doodley]

44. I took it as a compliment when I was asked if I wanted a blow job. I am just saying that

of all the things to get upset about, this isn't one of them.

[pnwmom]

148. Gross. No woman would take that as a compliment. If a stranger said the equivalent to a woman

it would be viewed as a disgusting threat.

[Baconator]

156. Exactly...

Imagine the outrage if Access Hollywood Tape V2 came out with Trump saying "I asked this lady in my office if I could eat her p**** and she had the nerve to get all pissed off about it"

Heads would explode...

[whathehell]

268. Um, Dudley?

Let's just say that your unflappable, "flattered" reaction is not typical of straight men.

[Codeine]

38. No. Not even close.

Don't get me wrong; the tale as related simply did not occur and is bullshit of the highest order. It should never have been posted, and having been posted should have been deleted. It's transparent nonsense.

That said, being groped by ANYONE, man or woman, gay or straight, is not a fucking compliment -- it's an affront. It's an assault. It's fucked-up and indefensible.

[Doodley]

41. IMO, this is an instance of choosing to be a victim. I agree with what you say, but

it isn't like having a glass smashed over your head or being raped or molested.

[Egnever]

54. Agree 100%

I do see it differently for women as they have zero power in the equation. But as a guy hit on and touched many times I never once felt it was sexual assault.

My response was typically thanks but I am not gay and that usually ended it right there. A couple of times they tried to convince me but if you aren't gay you just aren't.

I guess I never felt assaulted because there was never a question I could be forced to do anything. Also people touching me does not usually bother me a bit.

I think it is sad we seem to be reaching a point where any touching is labeled sexual assault.

I certainly respect women's decision not to be touched but I am damn glad I am years married and don't have to navigate the dating rituals today where rubbing someone's back can be seen as sexual assault.

[Crunchy Frog]

367. So, just a hypothetical.

Say that a woman was assisting a bedbound man in a home healthcare situation, and he pulled her down close to him and grabbed her ass.

She was at no risk of anything "serious" happening due to his severe physical limitations. She was not "powerless" in this situation.

Did she still have the right to feel distressed, humiliated and violated, or was she just being uptight in a situation where she should have felt "flattered"?

Just curious what your position is in a situation where the woman isn't powerless.

[pnwmom]

284. Would you say that if the story was about four men surrounding a woman and touching

her and pestering her?

That it wasn't as bad as having a glass smashed over her head or being raped or molested?

Of course it isn't. But it's still wrong.

[titaniumsalute]

124. Glad you are the most Omniscient One

Sounds like something a Roy Moore supporter would say. Why would this guy lie to me? I trust him, know him. I shared his story.

[obamanut2012]

131. "Gay Predator" narrative dog whistle

Period.

You should probably be ashamed you so readily believed this tired old homophobia.

[titaniumsalute]

139. Wow quick to judge?

You should be ashamed to so readily think it didn't happen. Do you know the individual it happened to? No. Were you there? No. Neither was I. If I thought my employee was being over the top, dramatic, homophobic there would be no reason to post this. But he isn't at all. Frankly I could tell he was really upset about what transpired.

So much for the nice DU non-judgmental family.

[Demsrule86]

309. Same old same old...

[titaniumsalute]

111. I've been hit on by guys many times

I have always said thanks but I'm straight and that's it. But I've never been touched nor has it happened so bluntly in front of my wife.

[pnwmom]

127. Bullshit. If it happened, it would have been just as nasty as when men do it to women.

Not a compliment.

[Iggo]

191. As every woman and most men know, "S/he should have taken it as a compliment" is not a new argument.

It's the same argument from when I was a teenager back in the 70s and it wasn't new then, either.

It was stupid back then. It's stupid now.

[procon]

241. Completely clueless and in need of remedial compliance training. nt

[DrDan]

29. hard to believe some of these posts . . . I guess it's not unlike what a woman experiences

when not believed . . . or when told to "lie there and enjoy it"

[Codeine]

32. Oh good lord; the story is absurd on its face.

Some narratives are obviously fake, just crap made up to try to advance an agenda. The OP is quite clearly nonsense.

[titaniumsalute]

113. Ahh thanks for calling me out as a liar. Sounds like something a Roy Moore supporter would say

[obamanut2012]

133. The poster called your Straight Employee a liar, not you

You are just gullible to believe such a cliched -- and obvious -- "gay predator" narrative.

[titaniumsalute]

149. Ahh yes. You have me figured out.

I'm a proud gay predator. LOL. WTF has happened to DU?

[Fla Dem]

245. You weren't being called a "gay predator", the story's narrative was about gay predators.

[pnwmom]

274. The story was about men drinking alcohol, traveling in a pack, and acting like jerks.

Straight people do this. Gay people do this. They're capable of the same range of good and bad behaviors.

[pnwmom]

273. Another poster clearly called the OP out for making up the story.

And I think you're gullible if you think gay people aren't capable of the same alcohol-fueled, jerky behavior as straight people.

[whathehell]

261. Really? Please explain.

Simply saying so won't work.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. OK

So my employee was sexually harassed last night by 2 men in front of her husband

This wasn't a work related function. She attended a concert with her husband last night at a large arena. The couple are in their late 50s. She was in the lounge that was associated with the suites they were guests of and she told me that 4 guys started talking to her. Nice guys, 30 somethings. Talked for a few minutes. She said like a light switch two of the guys started touching her leg and arms and saying things like "what are your plans after the concert, etc." She told them they (she and her husband) were simply going home afterward. They became very forward, asking if she'd like to go out with them afterwards, etc. They actually told her, in front of her husband, to "ditch him" and come with them.

She was so upset she walked away and he followed shortly thereafter. (needing to stay to pay the bar tab.)
She was really shaken this morning...not because they were guys hitting on her but simply that they were so rude to her husband.
Sexual harassment can happen at any time I guess but it seems with everything going on people would at least reign it in a little bit.

Does this have the ring of truth ? Does this happen in the course of human affairs ?

[DrDan]

53. ok

as I said - not unlike women not being believed.

I wasn't there. Perhaps you were and are a better judge.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

That being said I will defend to the death your right to believe everything you read on the internet.


If we can monetarize this disagreement I am willing to wager it isn't true. A bunch of strangers feeling up a man or woman in front of his or her spouse and telling him or her to drop him or her. No, it doesn't have the ring of truth. It does have the smell of bullshit.





P.S. Harassment knows neither gender or orientation. I just find the account as described in the OP outside the realm of probability.

[titaniumsalute]

135. You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet

Especially an open chat board like this. Been around DU a LONG time. I posted a story that was relayed to me first hand for feedback. Nothing more, nothing less.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if anyone believes this or not...whatever happened happened. It was disturbing to this individual and I shared it on DU.

[irisblue]

59. What wife walks away when someone hits on her husband...

that point is so freaking silly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. If he wanted to say glbtq people can sexually harass people too he should have just said so.

None of the posters are questioning the suggestion that glbtq people can act badly, just that they or anybody would act badly in the manner described in the original post.

[pnwmom]

286. "I'm getting out of here. You go pay the bill." That's what happened. nt

[titaniumsalute]

169. Pretty sure an evangelical molesting teen girls would never get elected to the Senate either

Or can it happen?

[pnwmom]

285. Stuff like that happens to women all the time. So why not to a man?

Why is that so hard to imagine?

[NCTraveler]

83. Nice try. Nt

[DrDan]

155. sorry - didn't realize you were there. Thanks for keeping us all honest.

[pnwmom]

271. Yeah, it's kind of nasty. n/t

[irisblue]

33. Ummm. Nice guys DO NOT TELL YOU TO DITCH YOUR SPOUSE for quickies

Whatever point you're trying to make isn't working, just FYI.

[steve2470]

85. correct nt

[pnwmom]

291. Who said they were nice? They were obnoxious people in a bar, ganging up on someone

just for fun. They probably had zero interest in him other than to make fun of him.

[irisblue]

296. The OP used that phrase

"Nice guys, 30 somethings..."
OPs words.
You seem very vested in this. I'm done discussing this with you. Take care

[pnwmom]

297. He thought they were nice before the "light switch" went off and they changed.

Yeah, I'm strongly vested in the idea that gay people are the same as straight people. Some are wonderful, some are not, and everybody should be held to the same standard of behavior.

My gay dad taught me that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

338. I have already established the conditions where I would believe in the inerrancy of this account

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9932390

[stonecutter357]

36. #fakenews.

[titaniumsalute]

116. Wow spoken like a Breitbart reader

Why would you say this is not true? I relayed exactly a story told to me by a trusted employee who has never spouted anything like this before. I could tell he was upset...not for being hit on but for the way his wife felt at a concert that was supposed to be pretty family friendly.

[stonecutter357]

252. Cool Story, Bro .

it must be true i read it on the internet .

[Codeine]

37. "And then they beat me up for not

wearing an AIDS ribbon!"

[populistdriven]

75. watched a guy yesterday screaming at his 3 dogs in the middle of a dog park as they

ran around doing whatever the hell they wanted to whomever

it's nigh impossible to stop a mob

especially when there is fresh meat on the table

[bagelsforbreakfast]

39. Had a. Coworker on to me. Really didn't understand his constant smiles and winks. Final!y

Just told him I'm not gay. No big deal. Maybe if he'd been the bossit would have been uncomfortable instead of just weird.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. The OP's story went well beyond the account of a fleeting pass.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

46. May e I missed why he didn't just tell them off for being so rude to his wife?

Did he think they would beat him up?

[pnwmom]

270. Not everyone is naturally assertive. Four guys were coming on to him despite

his wife being there, touching him on his arms and legs and pestering him to leave her.

He was embarrassed and just tried to get away without causing a scene.

Lots of people might react that way. Not everyone likes to get public attention.

[titaniumsalute]

308. Nah

He's a passive guy. Also he and his wife were guests of a vendor of ours. He didn't indicate anything may have led to physical violence.

I would have handled much different. A quick and firm "I'm not interested" the first time. If they would have proceeded I would have probably called security which are always all over the place at these large events.

[Codeine]

48. Hit and run post.

Stop stinking up the place, dude.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I took shot at it

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9929069

[titaniumsalute]

168. Hit and run?

I've responded to many of your posts. So now you are the post police as well?

[Skittles]

52. I agree harassment can take many forms

but this sounds ridiculous

[titaniumsalute]

118. Thanks Skittles

It does sound ridiculous...that is why I posted it. No reason for this guy to lie to me about this.

[Tipperary]

55. I must be missing something. Would he not say, stop that now the minute the behavior began?

He stayed long enough, engaging with these guys, that his wife left? Something does not make any kind of sense here.

[Skittles]

90. no shit

[titaniumsalute]

110. They all talked for about 10 to 15 minutes...nothing out of the ordinary

And then it happened. And within a few minutes he asked for his tab and left.

Just sharing his story. He has never talked to me about anything like this, he isn't a dramatic person at all. He isn't homophobic that I know of (and am very sensitive to.)

[yardwork]

302. I don't think that he's telling you the whole story.

There's something off about his whole story. I don't think it happened the way he said it did, or even happened at all.

[pnwmom]

280. Shyer people often don't know how to react because they might not understand what's happening

at first and they don't want to be rude. The more it goes on, the more uncomfortable they get, but that doesn't make it any easier to be assertive.

His wife left him to pay the bill. It doesn't sound strange to me.

[Orrex]

56. Out of curiosity, is "straight employee" his job title, or is that more of an honorary thing?

[Egnever]

60. I LOLed

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. Maybe he gets a special parking spot.

[Codeine]

64. Ha! Great minds think alike. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. The chance of this story being true is not zero.

But it seems so , so, so... implausible, and outside the realm of human experience.

[Codeine]

63. He's been voted Straightest Employee of the Year

in their sales division three out of the last four years. His company parking space just says "So Not Gay".

[Orrex]

81. I also want to hear more about the light switch that was touching his leg

[DemocratSinceBirth]

346. That would be shocking.

[Orrex]

349. IMO it's best to avoid that kind of on-and-off relationship

[DemocratSinceBirth]

352. I have been trying for the last ten minutes to formulate a response.

I'm flummoxed.

[Orrex]

353. I hope that you'll be able to find an outlet.

[Skittles]

188. STOP IT CODEINE

YER KILLING ME

[yardwork]

370. You're thinking the same thing I've been thinking...

[Duncan Grant]

66. Was this in Akron, OH?

My first response to this is: Anecdotal. Internet message board. So what? Just because you post it here doesn’t mean it’s true. Right?

[titaniumsalute]

106. Well just because people say Roy Moore's accusers didn't do it make it true?

[Duncan Grant]

172. Not the same. Nice try.

Hearsay. Anecdotal.

You do understand the difference with Roy Moore don’t you? I mean - you’re just gossiping on an internet message board.

[titaniumsalute]

175. Yes it is an anecdote that I shared to which I have no reason to not believe

That is what we do on DU no? We post a combination of news stories, personal stories, anecdotes, hypotheticals, preponderances, silly shit occasionally, etc. You may or may not believe anything posted here. Congrats.

[Duncan Grant]

177. Thanks for turning DU into the National Inquirer.

FFS - we used to be so much better than this.

Gossip.

[titaniumsalute]

178. Then why are you here if you are so unhappy?

Or why did you even click on the subject? And why did you post about it...twice??

[Duncan Grant]

185. I cant resist gay predator threads. (What next? Lesbian cannibals?)

Again, you’re repeating something told to you. You can’t verify it. You weren’t there. Yet, you’re sure it’s true!

Only you know your motivation for bringing it to our attention. Thank you for reminding all the straight men that they’re vulnerable to sexual harassment from gay men. It was a good day, champ. Nice job.

[titaniumsalute]

347. Bringing a story told to me by someone I trust is anecdotal yes

But with that mentality why should we ever believe anyone who claims sexual harassment in the past? Should any of the woman claiming Roy Moore dated them while under 18...or molested them...why should we trust them?

My ONLY motivation for posting this was it was such a bizarre story I thought it was interesting and wanted to share with DU.

In addition, I NEVER needed to PM the venue. I did to answer your question. I also said I wanted to keep it private because frankly the actual venue made no difference to what happened. You decided to post the info on the thread anyway. Thanks. Shows how trustworthy you are. At this point I'm fully confident you are simply bullying and trolling to...well...only you know your motivation.

[Duncan Grant]

363. Circling the drain at 8,700 views and counting.

Not to nit pick — you chose every word for full effect as you made this public. Not everything you mentioned in your PM to me was disclosed.

[titaniumsalute]

163. And no it wasn't in Akron. But flattered you are looking at my profile.

[Duncan Grant]

174. Im familiar with NE Ohio.

I looked for large arena events in your area for December 4th. Zip. Nada. Nothing.

Except the Janet Jackson concert at Oracle on Sunday night. Did this all go down in Cleveland or are you just pulling our leg?

[Tipperary]

248. Wow, good sleuthing! It would not have occurred to me to check that out!

That kind of adds a new twist to this thread.

[Duncan Grant]

253. Get this!

I have to admit these “gay men are predators” threads always get more of my attention than they deserve. Pavlov’s dog, that’s me. Especially when it’s gossipy dreck like this. That said, let’s simply evaluate more of what we now know.

The OP states this large arena event occurred last night, December 4th.

In post #174, I asked if this may have happened on Sunday, December 3rd. A large arena event in NE Ohio isn’t hard to track down. However, there’s been no public reply to post #174 from titaniumsalute as I write this - BUT -

I did receive a private message from titaniumsalute more than five hours ago. He or she stated again this harassment happened last night at the Andrea Bocelli concert at Quicken Loans Arena.

The problem is Bocelli didn’t play Cleveland last night. This is according to his own concert archive website which you can view here: click

Bocelli played Quicken on Friday, December 1st.

In my reply to titaniumsalute’s message, I asked that he or she acknowledge the error. Seems like the right thing to do, doesn’t it? Unless, of course...

Con Te Partiro, confirmation bias. But what a successful thread! It was DU catharsis! (No gay people were hurt in the making of this thread).

[Tipperary]

295. You seemed to have uncovered an important part of this story.

I found it odd that the op did not name the arena nor the concert. Why not?

[yardwork]

310. Wait. A gay mob menaced somebody at an Andrea Bocelli concert?

Thanks for sharing that detail.

Good to see you, Duncan!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

348. It was more of a pack than a mob, like in wolves.

This story is wrong on so many levels including its accuracy.

[Duncan Grant]

365. Whats the recipe for a great thread?

We’ve both been around long enough to know. Pinky swear.

[titaniumsalute]

330. Oh you sly devil you

So slick. Yes it was Friday not Sunday. I will edit the change.

But is that the point of the actual story?

[titaniumsalute]

331. I edited the OP to say Friday night

[yardwork]

326. You should not be snarky with Duncan Grant.

Duncan is one of the few people on DU I trust implicitly.

You sent Duncan a PM with information you didn't reveal here. Your story here is that your employee was SO UPSET by being hit on by a group of rowdy drunken gay men at a big concert the night before, he went running into your office the next morning to tell you how distraught he and his wife were from the experience.

The story alone is frankly not very believable, but now we learn that this supposed concert was Andrea Bocelli - NOT EXACTLY A ROWDY CROWD unless things have REALLY changed since I lived in Ohio and oh by the way my sister lives right there in NE Ohio and nope, rowdy gay mobs aren't menacing nice couples at classical music concerts that she's heard of - BUT ALSO this supposed ordeal took place on FRIDAY night so your employee was STILL so upset even having the weekend to get over the vapors?

This didn't happen. Somebody made this up.

[titaniumsalute]

332. Thanks for your concern and knowledge of Northeast Ohio

You trust someone on DU implicitly...I trust the person who told me the story implicitly. See how that works?

Yes I wanted the venue to remain anonymous. No one ran into my office with any vapors. He told me a story. That was it. And yes he seemed upset. Why are you dedicating so much time and energy to doubting someone? Do you doubt a woman could be sexually harassed at a Bocelli concert?

[yardwork]

371. You wrote that your employee was "distraught."

He was still distraught on Monday morning because some gay men flirted with him at a classical music concert on Friday night?

Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds? Wait. It also sounds so, so familiar to this lesbian because it's the same old tired gay panic story.

[titaniumsalute]

382. And maybe your intolerance of any story that doesn't fit your narrative

is a problem?

He wasn;t distraught about two gay men hitting on him. He was distraught by the touching advances and aggressiveness especially in front of his wife.

You are clearly stuck on the gay part. That wasn't what he was so upset about. And if your definition of flirting is touch body parts...well that is just as ridiculous.

[Tikki]

67. You forgot the part where these men had him shackled to a banister so he....

couldn't just turn and walk away, or had a rag stuffed in his mouth so he couldn't
say "I am leaving" and walk away or raise his voice and ask to be left alone.

drama.....



Tikki

[Orrex]

68. They decided not to shackle him to the banister

Because it's impolite to stair, and they didn't want to take that step.

[Tikki]

69. Awesome...

Love it...


Tikki

[titaniumsalute]

108. He did

He paid his tab and got out of the bar.

[Tikki]

134. Read your story...did the harassing happen after he left the bar?

Before he got to the Bar or during the time in the Bar?

Tell the bartender you are being harassed. Most Bars have training to handle
a customer being harassed. There usually are consequences.
If he was being harassed before the Bar, tell management. Same with after he left the Bar...Speak up so any harasser does not continue with other patrons.

I guess some people are naive, don't know how to handle unfamiliar situations, but put this situation in reverse. If anybody started rubbing his wife's leg, would he have
let the encounter escalate?

Was he worried that the harassers might sue him for rudeness if he were to leave immediately when they approached him?

Tikki

[titaniumsalute]

143. No just in the bar.

Have you ever been to a busy bar at an arena before a concert? Packed full of people, takes forever to get a drink, get your tab, etc. It happened, she walked out, he tried to get his tab to get out and get to their seats. That's it.

[Tikki]

159. I am not blaming this man..but a loud voice, especially in a crowded bar

can bring attention to situations where someone is in distress.
Most people, standing nearby, would help out a person in distress.

I hope your Straight employee contacted the management about the harassment and identified the harassers so that they might have been expelled from the venue so others weren't harassed.

Tikki

[titaniumsalute]

162. I'm not sure how I would have responded

I've been married 15 years. Nothing ever happened to me like this. Either to me or my wife.

I'm cut from the clothe that I don't care about making a scene I would have probably been very verbally forceful. I'm not a physically forceful person. My employee is fairly reserved and I would see it hard for him to confront this situation very forcefully rather than fleeing.

[Tikki]

170. If you are the owner, manager, boss...maybe it's time to have a seminar for....

your employees on harassment from both sides of the equation.

There are companies that have whole presentations and Q & A geared for these kind of situations.

First question I would ask...should I call the police immediately about being sexually harassed?

You really seemed concerned about your employees. When I was Union president, we
presented seminars on this and personal safety at least every other year where I was employed.

Tikki

[titaniumsalute]

171. We did one about 3 years ago

Probably due for a new one. We have about 50 employees and are pretty tight knit. Haven't had any reported issues internally. But we work in the public for much of what we do...including bars. It would be helpful for that. I'll take it up with my GM but good thought. We are probably overdue for another discussion on this topic.

[pnwmom]

233. Not everyone is comfortable bringing more attention to themselves with loud voices or complaints.

I never did this a single time when I was sexually harassed. I just tried to get away as quickly as I could. Being loud and assertive isn't the measure of whether someone was actually harassed.

[Tikki]

240. I think getting your community involved is an important way to stop harassers.

Suffer in silence has gone on too long. If I saw a child being harassed or in fear of someone assaulting them, uncomfortable or not, I would be screaming at the top of my lungs.

Of all this coming into the light of day, I hope people learn to stand up for themselves, it could stop someone else from being
assaulted in the future.

Sometimes you get lucky and you don't have to raise your voice, sometimes you do.
Tikki

[pnwmom]

244. That's true in theory, but not all people are equally capable of that response. 70% of the US

population are extraverts, according to estimates, and that means they wouldn't hesitate to do something that would call attention to themselves.

But the 30% who are introverts would find it much harder.

[bettyellen]

336. Even so, is the legs were "touched" he could have taken a step back. It's a public place for fucks

Sake and none of the other things sound offensive. But if it truly was and excuse me and quick exit ends it. Honestly ditch your wife is not a invitation to an orgy. I am amazed at the paranoia here. And the gullibility.

[pnwmom]

355. How do you know he didn't take a step back? Haven't you ever had someone move closer

to you in response to your stepping BACK? That's even happened to me.

All we know is that there were 4 guys and they were touching him and pestering him and he and his wife were uncomfortable, so she left and he stayed to pay the bar bill.

[bettyellen]

364. Nope- he says two were pestering him. Two just watched without anything remarkable happening...

Why wouldn't he mention it in the story if he moved back and the guy came closer and was "assaulted" again?
I'm still working on trying to figure out who touches someone's hand and legs as a "come on" if you're all standing around in a crowd. If it happened, it's odd. But I think if there was more than one episode of a touch he'd have mentioned it. Cops won't do shit if someone touches you just once. Anyway, that's another reason the story sounds hinky... the two onlookers.

[pnwmom]

366. The employee probably never dreamed his story would be shared to the world on DU

and subject to dissection and close analysis.



If he's like any of the guys I know, he wouldn't have shared every little detail. Women might talk to each other like that (And then what did he do?), but most guys don't. He probably just gave the broad outline of what happened that weirded him out. And the OP didn't press him for details. Most guys wouldn't.

And the four men were together. I don't see what seems "hinky" about two of them just watching while the other two did the pestering. When groups engage in teasing (or bullying or trolling -- whatever it was in this case), there's often a ringleader or two, plus onlookers.

[bettyellen]

368. It struck me immediately how off the story was. I do doubt it happened for quite a few reasons. I

Don't think there was actually any bullying "being watched". It takes a huge leap to think he pulled away and was assaulted a second time- but obvs you need to create scenarios like that in your head for some reason. I think I'll stick to the story he actually presented- which is implausible.
Have fun with that!

[pnwmom]

369. I don't think he was "assaulted a second time." I think that they were harassing him -- there's

a difference.

Why do YOU need to make things personal by referring to what is in my "head"? Do you think that strengthens your logic? It doesn't.

[bettyellen]

372. You just imagined a scenario where a standing man assaulted a man on the leg, the man backs up, and

He does it again. Maybe because you mistakenly thought four men were participating in an assault? I don't know why, but I am certain if it played out that way, the "victim" would mention it. But being invited to an after party isn't an invitation to an orgy no matter how desperate people might want to see it that way. Being horrified at an invite is fucking hilarious though. It's the only reason I'm still responding to this silly thread.

[pnwmom]

373. No I didn't. I never used the word "assault." And I didn't say anything about when

the touches occurred. None of us know that. All I said was that the story in the OP doesn't preclude the possibility that the employee reacted by backing up, but the unwanted attention continued.

I've said repeatedly that my personal opinion is that the pestering was not a real invitation of any kind, but a joke. Some guys with drinks in their hands were having fun at the expense of the person they were harassing.

I was surrounded by a group of men once, when I was a young teenager. They scared me with the comments they were making to me, but they were just having fun at my expense. They weren't intending to take it any farther -- I was walking on the sidewalk past their worksite -- but when you're in the midst of that kind of situation you don't know how to respond.

Those guys were all straight. The guys in the OP were gay. But anyone is capable of behaving like a jerk, straight or gay.

[bettyellen]

375. Elsewhere in the thread you said unwanted touching is assault- I get that you didn't realize it was

Only two guys doing whatever, and not four as you said upthread... but seriously, worrying about his poor wife's reaction? Not every marriage is scared, and strangers might have been putting out feelers- and maybe not.
I find it- as described- implausible. It's a Chinese finger puzzle for liberals designed to trap some into a homophobic reaction over likely nothing. Just like they're doing to Franken. No coincidence at all.

[pnwmom]

376. Nope. I didn't. That wasn't me. I never used the word assault, and I wouldn't, not in this case.

I think you're confusing some of my comments with someone else's.

[bettyellen]

381. Well I do think repeated touching below the belt is assault but....

And you don't/ fair is fair. I misread and thought it was a work function, you misread that it was four harassers. I think both happened because it was presented as some sort ofa big deal. And it doesn't appear to be, in the end.
Let's condem someone for touching a leg- why don't we? Everything else was damned normal. There is no there there except the one touch on the leg at a bar. The intent of this OP is more nefarious than that. It's phony.

This story is designed to have people- notably liberals- argue about it, LOL.

[MineralMan]

70. Sorry, but I do not believe this for a second.

It just sounds like a made-up story. I think your "straight" employee was fibbing to you, assuming that your second-hand account is even real.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. MM, some folks are creating a straw man, that glbtq people can't be sexual abusers/harassers.

That's not what we're saying. We're saying the OP's account seems apocryphal.

[MineralMan]

94. Exactly what I'm saying.

This particular story seems off and probably never happened. It's a second-hand, hearsay account, anyhow.

No doubt that anyone might be a sexual harasser, regardless of orientation. But telling fake stories is still telling fake stories. I don't believe this particular story.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. It doesn't have the right of truth.

I hate anecdotal accounts like this. There is a non zero chance it is true but it lacks the ring of truth. I usually ignore such accounts but this one seems so far fetched I felt it was incumbent on me to respond.

You could change the genders or orientations of all the actors and it would still be as off. That's just not how people act. Maybe at a sex club but then they would have invited him and his wife to participate.

[pnwmom]

288. As a woman, it has the ring of truth to me. The idea of four men in a pack, under the influence

of alcohol, harassing a woman sounds all too possible. So I don't have trouble believing that four men might have harassed a man. Not because they were really interested in him. Because they were being obnoxious, for whatever reason.

[obamanut2012]

319. no, it doesn't have the ring of truth

it has the ring of a fake gay predator narrative

[pnwmom]

327. Can you imagine men doing this to a woman, just because they could?

Why not to a man?

I think it has the ring of a garden variety, everyday, people-in-bars-can-be-obnoxious story.

[titaniumsalute]

104. Yes thanks for the feedback

Why the fuck would I lie about this? Been here for nearly a decade. I shared a story with someone I trust. So I will be polite and say shove it...

[DrDan]

128. you doubt the omniscience found here?

it is infallible . . . like found nowhere else

just ask 'em

[obamanut2012]

136. Your employee obviously lied to you

You just believed his lie.

[titaniumsalute]

141. Why is it obvious?

[pnwmom]

290. He knows the employee better than you do. n/t

[pnwmom]

145. I think it could be real. Gay people in bars are capable of the same jerkishness as straight people.

In fact, gay people everywhere are capable of the same jerkishness as straight people.

They do not have to be saints to be deserving of equal rights.

[Baconator]

71. Hypocrisy in this thread stinks to high heaven...

Doesn't fit your personal narrative so it's obviously bullshit...

No one learns...

[DrDan]

72. couldn't agree more

[DemocratSinceBirth]

77. Nobody Is saying glbtq people can't harass people, see Kevin Spacey and a career in tatters.

What many people are saying is that the account in the original post seems outside the realm of possibility.


I was at a club in Hollywood with my girlfriend. Four Hollywood starlets started chatting me up and lo and behold two started grabbing my crotch. They said I should ditch my girlfriend and come with them. I am still shaken.

If I posted that tripe here I would be laughed off the site.

[Baconator]

78. So what?

If Terry Crews, a big badass bodybuilder can admit that it bothered him after he was groped in front of his wife by a gay man then I'm willing to accept that it might both other men too.

I say again... This is bullshit and proof positive that no one is holding the high ground on this issue.

Principles appear to be something that the other guy should hold fast to and be damned for when they don't live up to them. We get to be realists though and make some 'hard decisions'

Bullshit...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. Again. Nobody is saying GLBTQ people can't sexually harass or abuse people.

Last edited Tue Dec 5, 2017, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

What many people are questioning is the account.

I went to a party with my girlfriend. Four young women started chatting me up. After a few minutes two of them grabbed me by my genitals through my pants in front of her. They told me to ditch her and come with them.


Or

I went to a party with my girlfriend. Four young men started chatting me up. After a few minutes two of them grabbed me by my genitals through my pants in front of her. They told me to ditch her and come with them.


Does that have the ring of truth ?


If I posted that I would be laughed off DU.

[pnwmom]

299. Women are less likely to be the harassers than men, but the scenario you suggest

isn't that hard to imagine -- if the women were ganging up together to mock or troll the man.

That's what I think happened to the 50+ year old. The younger guys were just making fun of him. It happens.

[Skittles]

89. or maybe it just plain sounds like bullshit

[steve2470]

93. yes

This kinda shit only happens in bad movies (which are fictional).

[Baconator]

97. You forgot the "why"...

[LexVegas]

337. Why, it just sounds like plain bullshit. nt

[titaniumsalute]

345. So are all people who claim sexual harassment bullshit?

Or just the stories you choose are bullshit?

[Skittles]

356. LOL

not even worthy of a response

since you already agreed

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9929702

[titaniumsalute]

359. A response of no response

BRILLIANT! There are many stories that sound ridiculous...but doesn't mean they aren't true. Most of what we are seeing daily out of the White House would have been a fiction movie two years ago.

But that's fine...head in sand is fine.

[Skittles]

360. yes, please take your head out ASAP

[titaniumsalute]

361. I'll use your brilliant response of no response

[Skittles]

362. GOOD

[obamanut2012]

112. Too many of us are old enough to know dog whistles

For 'LGBT Predator" narratives when we hear them.

[Baconator]

132. That's a load of bullcrap...

Just say what you mean...

Something the along the lines of "Maybe it's true, Maybe it's not, but the narrative hurts a cause I support so I'm going to disparage the claim and call it a dog whistle for no discernable reason"

[LexVegas]

314. "the narrative hurts a cause I support"

[titaniumsalute]

312. Yeah ya got me.

[Iggo]

117. You're half right.

[Alea]

73. Anyone can do it - straight, gay, trans

I was hit on by a female supervisor in the Army. Told her I was straight, no harm no foul at the time. We had always gotten along great before that. Afterwards she always treated me like shit. I don't know if it fit the sexual harassment definition, but the way she treated me afterwards wasn't right.

People in this thread acting like gay people are immune to sexual harassment claims are full of it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. "People in this thread acting like gay people are immune to sexual harassment claims are full of it.

Nobody is suggesting glbtq people can't sexually harass people. What posters are questioning is the accuracy of the account in the original post.

[Alea]

82. I get that, but some posters are saying if it's true it's no big deal n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. If it occurred it's a big deal.

Nobody regardless of gender and orientation has a license to sexually abuse/harass others.


The unwanted touching could be a violation of state law. The rest is boorish and rude behavior.


Several men in this thread have said they have been hit on by gay men. I have too. In fact I was "hit on" when I was fourteen years old and in a public restroom. Nobody is questioning them and if they question me I will provide such detail that my veracity can't be questioned.

What some of are questioning are the details. They don't comport with our understanding of how folks act.


But again, glbtq people can sexually abuse/harass people like everybody else.

[Alea]

98. Agreed, and thanks

I don't know if it happened or not. I probably wouldn't post a second or third hand account of something like that on a forum for reasons that are now obvious in this thread.

[pnwmom]

293. In your experience men don't act that way. Based on my experience they certainly could. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

335. It has nothing to do gender or orientation.

It has nothing to do gender or orientation. Until and unless all the parties to this tale are examined and cross examined I'm not going to believe it.

[pnwmom]

357. Why is it so hard for you to think a group of drinking guys could have been trolling

someone, just for laughs?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

358. Because the story, to me, lacks the ring of truth.

It sounds like the opening paragraphs in something that would have appeared in Penthouse Letters.

[irisblue]

173. Who please?

[Alea]

189. I don't know why I took the time to go back through the thread , but here's a few

147, 18, 27, 45, 23, 44, 41

Then the numerous replies mocking the OP because it hurts the agenda, but I have already agreed that I probably wouldn't post a second or third hand account of a story like this.

[pnwmom]

292. But there's no reason to say that story couldn't be true except for preconceptions

about how gay people would behave.

It isn't unusual in a bar (or anywhere) for obnoxious people to be obnoxious. Their gender or orientation is irrelevant.

[Skittles]

99. no one is saying gay folk cannot be harassers

they're simply calling bullshit on this story

[steve2470]

84. sorry I've been married and in large cities with my (now ex) wife

I'm sure I was around plenty of gay guys. This never happened to me or my ex-wife. I've been hit on by gay guys, as other straight guys in this thread have, and it doesn't happen this way.

Nope, not buying it.

[Behind the Aegis]

96. Thank you.

This reeks of "gay men are predators out to convert". While anyone, gay, lesbian, straight, bi, trans, cis, male, or female can be an asshole and sexually assault another person, this story smells like rank BS and something we would see coming from a RW site!

[steve2470]

101. I said upthread this sounds like BAD fictional movie BS

One from the 1950's or earlier.

[pnwmom]

154. What does your experience have to do with it? Has a gay man ever sexually harassed you at work?

If not, that doesn't mean it never happened to anyone else.

Gay people are just as capable of acting like jerks, especially while drinking and in a group, as straight people.

[steve2470]

165. I'm sorry, we have to agree to disagree

His friend's story is too much like bad movie fiction. I just can't see it.

[pnwmom]

183. I told a story here once about something that had happened to my son,

and I named the suburban location, and got back a bunch of responses from idiots claiming the story was made up, because they knew that suburb and nothing like that would ever happen there.

Yeah, right. They weren't the ones dealing with the son after he had a knife pulled on him by a group of teenage thugs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

350. There is a persistent straw man that permeates this discussion.

Few or no posters have claimed glbtq folks can't be predators. That's the straw man, i.e. that glbtq folks can't be predators. What many are questioning are the details.

[titaniumsalute]

161. I've been married for 15 years

I've lived in Miami, NYC. Been to gay bars and clubs. I've never experienced anything like this either. That is why it was so shocking.

[DangerousUrNot]

86. Well yeah

You have assholes and sexual assaulters of every sexual orientation. I feel bad that she had to go through that. Fuck those guys.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

87. this has only happened to me twice and both times the gay guy was slurring wasted

far beyond the point they might recognize any social cue or visible disgust.

[obamanut2012]

102. lulz

[Iggo]

115. Oh, jeezus.

Come on.

[LeftInTX]

119. Second hand account.....

[LonePirate]

123. I have never understood why people think it is OK to touch someone else apart from a handshake.

I suppose there are other situations like tapping someone on the shoulder if you’re in a crowd or something. I guess I was raised differently as it seems so foreign to me to touch a stranger in such a s happy suggestive manner or with such intent.

[RandySF]

129. Assholes come in all shapes and sizes

I wasn’t there, so I’ll take it at face value that it happened. And, if so, not appropriate.

[pnwmom]

138. Exactly. Gay people are capable of the same range of behavior, good and bad, as straight people.

When he was just out of college, my brother got sexually harassed by his male supervisor at work, till he finally quit his job. It happens.

[spooky3]

144. If they were guests at what appears to be a luxury suite, why would he have a bar tab to pay?

And it's "rein it in" (as with a horse), not "reign it in."

[bettyellen]

222. Apparently a thigh grab and saucy comment were added to the story later? Missing for me was-

Who is the boss here? Why is the 50 year old man scared of his 30-something coworkers?

[spooky3]

227. My reading was that the 50+ year old was approached by people he did NOT work with.

If I understand the OP, s/he supervises the 50+ year old, who was at an unrelated social event, and the 4 people were not co-workers of his or the supervisor's.

[bettyellen]

230. Oooh, so it just sounded similar to workplace harassment but was a stranger who touched him.

While two other disinterested strangers looked on. Interesting. It sounds so carefully crafted, in going to say, who cares. After we start to properly deal with unambiguous assaults and take harassment against women seriously, we will start patrolling bars and parties. But the workplace is a priority. I see people wanting to pretend it's "all the same"... oh yeah, I see them.

[titaniumsalute]

311. There are the common areas outside of the suites

It was before the concert started and before they had gone to the private suites.

[Sugarcoated]

152. My brother used to get cat called and a few times, followed by aggressive gay men

Philadelphia in the early 80s, he had to walk almost 20 blocks from work to home in the wee hours. One of those times a car full of guys slowly followed him as he walked, harassing him. He was a very attractive well built guy, but still a teenager. He felt very intimidated, started taking alleys and back and side streets. It does happen.

[Doreen]

153. Some people in this world are complete asses.

I am sorry for your ordeal. I hope your wife and you are going to be OK.

[titaniumsalute]

158. It wasn't mine...my employee

But thanks.

[Doreen]

164. Oh, sorry I wrote down the wrong people.

I hope your employee and his wife are going to be alright.

[displacedtexan]

157. No cell phone video?

I can't imagine something like this happening in a crowded place without someone nearby filming it.

[ProfessorGAC]

160. Another Take On This, From Personal Experience

Went to a karaoke night at Kaboom, in Chicago, back in the 90's. Big place, nicely appointed and a gay bar that had little issue with straight clientele coming to watch their singing contests. (I sang that night. Did Prince's "Let's Go Crazy".)

Anyway, a couple guys in drag were in the rest room and when i came in, they both said something to the effect of "Don't worry, we're not going to attack you, but you're cute!" I think they were just trying to see if they could get a reaction. Since i didn't react much, if at all, they just dropped it and when back to what they were talking about.

That might have happened here. Just seeing how the guy would react as a prank. In this case, just messing around for a laugh.

[titaniumsalute]

166. I actually kind of thought the same thing

It is so absurd I wondered if it were a prank. The guy (my employee) is rather timid but his wife is flat out shy. I had dinner with them once and she was pretty reserved. My wife isn't at all so it was a rather awkward dinner to say the least.

Maybe they were liquored up and found a couple of nerdy looking people to mess around with. Still uncool in my opinion.

[steve2470]

167. this is very believable

I totally believe it 100%.

[Lilyhoney]

179. I used to go to Kaboom in the 90's.

I'm sitting here laughing and feeling nostalgic. Thanks for the memory.

[pnwmom]

184. I think that's what they were doing, too. And a group of guys "just messing around" with someone --

someone who is not part of the group -- is a form of bullying.

Add alcohol and I can believe these men crossed a line into sexual harassment.

(Just imagine the same guys "messing around" with a woman in that way and it's obvious.)

[ProfessorGAC]

249. I'd Have To Agree

But, a straight guy taking a little crap is hardly a reason for me to get upset!
I was their turf! They tested me!
I think I passed the test, because I didn't react!
Hard for me to claim sexual harassment as a straight white guy.

[pnwmom]

250. Why? No one should have to take this kind of crap, and gay guys shouldn't get a pass

based on their orientation.

Either gay people and straight people are equal, or they aren't. If you believe they're equal, as I do, then the same standards of behavior apply.


ON EDIT: your experience was in a gay bar, where no one should be surprised by what happened to you. But the OP wasn't talking about a gay bar, and the story involved a few men touching a man they didn't know, and trying to get him to ditch his wife. It was sexual harassment, the same as if three men were touching a woman and trying to get her to ditch her partner.

[whathehell]

269. Correct...Gay guys should not get a pass..

Talk about PC gone wild.

[ProfessorGAC]

298. Fair Enough!

But, there was no position of power in my example. I was free to go about my business and walk away with zero consequences.

I'm not comparing what happened to me to any sort of harassment. Just positing a theory as to what those two guys were really doing.

People do silly stuff all the time. In my case, it was no harm, no foul.

[oberliner]

176. What concert?

[NurseJackie]

203. "Oh, uh, you know... the CONCERT... the one over at, you know, that place with the big stage..."

[titaniumsalute]

313. We work in a very public place

I decided not to share the venue (a client). If you really want to know the answer PM and I will tell you. If not then I know you are simply trolling to be petty.

[yardwork]

180. Women put up with this all the time. It's upsetting, isn't it?

[gollygee]

206. It's a regular occurrence for women

but by all means we need a thread about how it happened to this guy I know once.

[NurseJackie]

208. The "9-to-5" office environment and "Mr. Hart" reminded me a LOT of where I worked...

... back in the day. It was "entirely normal" and "accepted" and my only choice was to just brush it off and laugh along. (Jesus, I was stupid back then.)

[lillypaddle]

210. Assholes and jerks

come in all stripes.

[cwydro]

223. Rein/ reign.

Royalty reigns.

[LexVegas]

235. Cool story, bro. nt

[2left4u]

238. ok

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.

I went to an after hours happy hour function with severally co-workers to a gay bar and didn't run into any problems

Truth be told I had least hoped somebody would have offered to buy me a drink or hit on me just for the sake of knowing if I was ever gay I'd have the same luck I did when I was in straight bars when I was much younger.

Came home and told my wife about the whole experience and she told me that "It only proves that were old now and were both truly stuck with each other".

[whathehell]

239. I'm a straight woman who was harassed with catcalls by a lesbian while

she followed her down a public street.

Having experienced this with men, I was sickened that a woman would subject another woman to such abuse.

[LexVegas]

242. Is this a Reddit thread?

[steve2470]

243. ok let me run this past you, as a thought experiment

I can believe the part about them touching him, especially if they were very drunk and/or high. How much and where is the issue. I can believe on the arm and shoulder and back. Maybe this was part of them trolling him ?

Now...the half-baked thought experiment part, and I am NOT endorsing any of this:

1- Plans after the concert bit was a joke, but very poorly done and obviously taken seriously. Maybe they were "trolling" him.

2- Likewise, the go out with them and ditch his wife part was also a joke, also very poorly done and taken seriously or was trolling.

I would never do this kind of thing, drunk or sober, but there's all kinds in this world. I'm 59 and when I grew up, this kind of stuff was Grade A assholishness. Now it's kind of glorified as "trolling" which gives Grade A assholishness a nicer name in my opinion.

Needless to say, I'm not trying to imply anything negative about the LGBT community as a whole.


eta: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029928743#post160 ProfessorGAC had a similar take.

[pnwmom]

294. I think you've nailed it. They were trolling him, mocking him, having fun

making him uncomfortable.

And gay people and straight people are capable of this kind of bullying behavior.

[yardwork]

305. There's another possibility as well, and that's that the employee is not telling the whole story.

Right off the top of my head I can think of at least two different reasons why an employee might tell his boss this story.

[LexVegas]

316. There is the strong possibility that its a load of bullshit from start to finish.

[yardwork]

318. I agree. I'm not sure which person is making it up.

[LexVegas]

320. I have my suspicions. nt

[obamanut2012]

322. yup, do not believe this

"Gay Predator" narrative.

[titaniumsalute]

315. I agree that they may have been 100% messing with them as a joke

They are a timid couple, I guess to profile we could say nerdy looking. May have been booze mixed with humor that was taken the wrong way by the couple. But in bad taste I guess.

[yardwork]

324. At an Andrea Bocelli concert? No way. Not believable.

[pnwmom]

329. Anytime alcohol is involved, no matter what kind of concert,

rude behavior is more likely to happen.

[applegrove]

254. Isn't it sad when i can't tell if this is a troll post or a legit one?

[titaniumsalute]

317. The story is pretty unbelievable which is why I posted it N/T

[yardwork]

325. That doesn't make sense.

[NCTraveler]

333. His wife was in more danger of being assaulted outside...

Than this guy was inside. There is also blatant homophobia in this. I wish so many of our feminist and lgbqt members here weren’t run off. They wouldn’t let this stand without addressing what’s really being laid out. Homophobia.

[LexVegas]

334. ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

344. Anybody can act badly regardless of his or her race, gender, religion, or orientation, et cetera.

I just question the details.

[NCTraveler]

351. Anybody can act badly.

No need for the additional qualifiers.

[pnwmom]

377. It isn't homophobic to say that straight people and gay people

are equally capable of boorish behavior, especially while drinking. The fact that the jerks in the OP were gay doesn't preclude the possibility that the story was true.

I am the feminist daughter of a gay man. I know from experience that gay people are capable of the same spectrum of human behavior as straight people, and I don't put either group on a pedestal. My dad taught me that everyone should meet the same standards, whatever their orientation.

[NCTraveler]

378. I didnt say it was.

Second time in two days you have use that debate tactic. Next you will act confused.

Good night.

[pnwmom]

380. What did you mean by "there is blatant homophobia in this?" In what?

And what is your evidence?

[DanTex]

339. I don't see why people are doubting this story.

Stuff like this happens all the time, whether gay or straight or whatever. In fact, my reaction is it doesn't sound like a big deal. A couple drunk guys hitting on someone inappropriately. Sounds like a bar on a Friday night.

[liberalmuse]

341. What the hell are these comments?

Humans of all genders, sexual orientation, political beliefs, etc. can be assholes and behave inappropriately. You don’t have to believe OP, but I’d expect DU to be a bit more respectful.

Some of the comments are disturbing. Men can be sexually harassed and shouldn’t be dismissed with the same bullshit we women have had to deal with.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

343. Could...

Could you please list the post numbers of all the posters who demur from the proposition that "Humans of all genders, sexual orientation, political beliefs, etc. can be assholes and behave inappropriately " ?

I will address each poster and politely explain to him or her why such a position is illogical and untenable.

What many of us are questioning are the details on the story. I read many anecdotes on the internet that I find implausible. This one just caught my eye.

[LostOne4Ever]

374. No offense but I dont believe your employee. Nt

[bagelsforbreakfast]

379. This all sounds like a rejected Seinfeld episode starring George Costanza! Nm