My thoughts on Al Franken

[SHRED]

Link to tweet

[BannonsLiver]

1. The problem with that argument

IN today's world, there is ZERO BENEFIT to be had from taking the moral high ground. The argument that the public will somehow draw a distinction between how GOP pols and Dem pols handle these issues, let alone reward Dems for taking the "moral high ground", is patently naive and ridiculous.

[SHRED]

3. To be clear

You're speaking to Amy's position?

[BannonsLiver]

4. Yes, my apologies. I should have mentioned that.

[HopeAgain]

18. Maybe I don't understand politics

I feel compelled to always take the moral high ground. If we let morality slide for the benefit of politics, aren't we just going to make things worse in the long run?

I haven't decided on Franken what to think yet. I am uncomfortable with three anonymous accusers. I don't think a moral high ground can be identified unless we know what the facts truly are. But to argue against the moral high ground? I am uncomfortable with that. The ends do not usually justify the means over the long haul.

[Saviolo]

20. It's something I struggle with

The GOP has no principle, no integrity, and no morals at all. They will happily slide around the muck, cheat, lie, steal, bribe, whatever. And you know what? They win doing it. It's repugnant. And when Democrats do any of those things, the GOP calls them out big time, and there are repercussions. But when the GOP get caught and/or called out? Crickets.

If the Democratic Party were willing to give up its principles, give up its base, give up its support for at-risk minority communities, give up its support for women, for POC, for LGBTQ+, embrace guns, outlaw abortion, etc... it might win some elections in some areas. But then who would the "Democratic Party" be?

It's frustrating and it's tiresome and it's terribly depressing to know you're seated across from someone who is gleefully lying to your face to win, but if you call them out you're going to get the same accusation (true or false) thrown right back at you. The water is so muddy you can walk across it by now. I don't have a solution. The GOP has given up any pretense of any sort of integrity or principle in favour of *actual nazis* and *child molesters*.

I feel like it's going to catch up to them eventually, but I don't know how much longer I can take.

[Egnever]

42. nothing wrong with the moral high ground IMHO

It is when you throw out reason with it that it becomes a problem.

There is nothing moral about forcing someone out without so much as a hearing.

[WyLoochka]

44. A lynch mob cannot claim the moral high ground n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

22. See, We Do Agree Completely!

Like i said in the other post, it was a difference in reading another poster's piece. But, we're locked in on the basic premise!

[cannabis_flower]

37. You're right but..

You're right, the moral high ground doesn't matter. What matters is they are creating a fake scandal to try to get rid of Franken because he is a pain in the Reputation butt. He asks uncomfortable questions and demands answers. When's he up for re-election? Let the voters of Minnesota decide.

[cilla4progress]

2. MN GOVERNOR MARK DAYTON WILL APPOINT A DEM

TO REPLACE FRANKEN!!

[Thor_MN]

6. So?

And why are you shouting?

[a kennedy]

10. I dont want anyone but SENATOR AL FRANKEN

and sorry for yelling, but damn it, it’s a political hit job and they’re getting away with it,

[dchill]

12. +1000!

[Kimchijeon]

15. I contacted him with my support I WANT AL TO STAY

this is bullshit and should be laughed away dismissively.

Not worth resigning over. Investigating is only to expose the horseshit behind the claims, as this is 100% jackassery and lies.

What, we can't get the criminal Pukes in jail or out of office, so we eagerly attack our own instead?

Easier to attack a progressive, I guess, because even bullshit accusations get met with apologies (that aren't even warranted.)
The fascist trolls know how easy it is to manipulate us, and it works.

Real cases of rape and pedos? Oh, they are fine & DANDY though. Let them stay! Ugh.

Get a fucking spine already and stand the fuck up, I say. Al is one of the rare few genuine public servants out there I trust and love.

He has absolutely NO reason to resign.
I am with ya, I think this warrants YELLING.

[blimablam]

28. I just did the same thing.

[unitedwethrive]

36. I couldn't agree more, and I'm a woman who has a compelling "me too" story...

...but if this case is being made on an overly aggressive stage kiss and misguided humor on a photo by someone in his role as a comedian, along with other anonymous claims, then it looks like a hit job to me.

Strange how all the allegations occurred in public, not how I would work if I was trying to get away with something.

We have to KNOW IN OUR HEARTS that the GOP plays dirty, and everything coming from them must be suspected.

[Duppers]

23. + another 1000

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

14. Who only gets to serve until the next election.

And then they have to run again.

We'll probably not hold onto that seat in 2018.

And if Amy Klobuchar decides to run for president, we stand a good chance of losing that seat, too.

Not to mention that the GOP's dirty trick squad is out in force in Minnesota trying to beat down Gov. Dayton's record of prosperity in the state.

[titaniumsalute]

35. Al ran in 2014 didn't he?

That seat will be up in 2020 I thought?

[SharonAnn]

38. And if you remember, it was so close, recounted and recounted, not seated until months later.

[titaniumsalute]

40. Actually I looked

Al ran in 2014. His seat is up in 2020. Klobuchar is up in 2018.

[alp227]

46. That was the 2008 election.

Franken won 53.2% of the vote in 2014, too large of a margin to warrant a recount.

[Bettie]

16. He will appoint a Dem who is quiet

and biddable and will do as he or she is told without making waves.

[Lil Missy]

26. Not necessary if Franken doesn't resign.

[WyLoochka]

45. There hasn't been a Dem like Franken for years

He's a gem. Not so easy to replace. We have a lot of losers if you hadn't noticed.

[Snotcicles]

5. I would like to see Al Franken offer to take a polygraph test under the condition

and his accusers must agree first, that if he pass the test they all must take the same.

[LakeArenal]

7. oh yes.. never gonna happen.. But...

oh yes..

Why aren't these supposedly Democratic women not pushing for the ethics committee investigation.?

[RandomAccess]

8. I totally agree, Shred

With the Roy Moore allegations, which are far worse of course, they were 100% credible because of the THIRTY people who were interviewed by the journalists (NYT I think ).

Maybe it's just me, because I've seen very, very little about Franken's accusers and their allegations except the first one and there were some "issues" with her and her story.

I think it's telling that Franken IMMEDIATELY called for a Senate Ethics investigation when this first came up, and apologized as well for what he intimated was inadvertent and later asserted definitely unintended. I thought at the time, and still do, that he was innocent but knew it would be futile to fight it on that basis, and that the Ethics Committee would get to the bottom of things. His accuser, meanwhile, said an investigation wasn't necessary.

I have always said we must believe the women ALWAYS because so few women come forward with false accusations (no more than for false reports of other crimes). However, the current climate -- at least for the moment -- is so different and it's safer for women to come forward with such allegations. And thank heaven for that. But unfortunately, that makes it safe for the claim of sexual harassment to be weaponized.

When the first allegation surfaced, I chastised people here for doubting her. But then I read some of the reasons (aside from the inappropriate slut shaming) and began to have doubts. Then when I heard Roger Stone knew about it in advance (https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9851288 ) and read other things, I began to wonder.

Some of the other things which helped me have doubts:


Wait what??? They met for weeks to try and find a way to hurt Franken????
3rd paragraph in. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029865102
http://polipace.com/2017/11/17/leeann-tweeden-says-accepts-al-frankens-apology-claims-planned-attacks/
"Also, KABC in Los Angeles is upset about various reports coming out that they had met for weeks to discuss ways to “hurt” Senator Al Franken, the Democratic Represenative from Minnesota. According to sources within the radio station, a small group of employees that support Trump had met after work for weeks to come up with various plans to make the Democrats look bad and Tweeden brought up being kissed by Franken."


Al Franken: The Obvious Setup and Liberals Took the Bait https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029878975


A Survivors Defense of Al Franken https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029885250


Let's Check: Why would anyone so demand the resignation of Sen Franken? https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029886562


So until I have a lot more information - along with some credible corroboration -- about Franken's accusers, the LAST thing he should do is resign. In addition, if Roy Moore wins and is seated no way Franken should be forced to resign.

[SHRED]

13. +10

[smirkymonkey]

27. +1000

[HipChick]

9. FFS...

RW scum win again..

[OnDoutside]

11. The best thing Franken can do at this stage is to come out fighting. He has been too nice up to this

point. I think he should come out tomorrow and attack Gillibrand, Harris etc for their flouting of the Democratic process. #itsawitchhunt

[sinkingfeeling]

17. Just wrote to DNC and told them if they drum Al Franken

out, I will never give them another penny.

You can comment here:

my.democrats.org/page/s/contact-the-democrats

[Mr. Evil]

21. I just did. Thanks for the link.

[rsong71]

29. I just did so as well

Thank you for the link. I wrote that they should let the ethic committee do their job before asking Franken to resign.

[Egnever]

43. OMFG

I just did and the confirmation page infuriated me!

A pic of Obama as if he endorses thier actions.......So freaking mad. If there is one thing Obama never did it was jump to conclusions and I loved him for that!


GRRRRR So angry.

[usaf-vet]

19. Al need to stay and fight-on The democrats prove at every chance they get that.......

..... fight is not in their vocabulary. I've given up on them as a defender of the rights and needs of the majority of the American citizens. They are useless. I used to get frustrated when they only brought "knives to political gun fights". Now they bring the extra high capacity magazines for the guns the republicans are carrying. If Franken is to go it will (SHOULD) be the voters in MN that should decide. After all McConnell, Ryan and Trump have said that is the case for Roy Moore. And to all MN voters who fail to vote for Franken. Make sure when you are out buying bullets for the republicans weapons that they are the right caliber. Hint you can't go wrong if you by loud, useless, bigoted GOP specials. They work especially well in the deep the mud and BS.

[pazzyanne]

24. Defense of due process

Long time lurker, but today I joined democratic underground. The thing that drove me out of the shadows is the stance of the DNC chairman. I sent him and the DNC an e-mail expressing my stand and then joined this forum. I am upset by the fact that there are Democrats who are not allowing due process to proceed for Al Franken, especially since he asked for it. We need to stand up to the republican hypocrisy when dealing with this issue!

[SHRED]

25. Welcome

[rsong71]

30. me too!

I've been a decade long lurker. But this issue has me posting now to DU.

[fleabiscuit]

41. They would have inside information. nt

[rsong71]

31. Shred - well written

Concise and to the point. We need an INVESTIGATION not a resignation!

[Iliyah]

32. And guess what, GOPers in the Senate plan on voting on the tax scam

so they claim very soon because apparently GOP house and senate are sneaking agreements through quickly.

As a side note, Mr. Franken will be a force in private life, and I will expect him to be a champion of human rights, et al. He will work like he did in congress for the betterment of American lives.

Senator Franken and the Dem Senators have been in discussions for a while. I'm pretty sure there is total mutual respect for him as well as for the Dem Senators. We are far from perfect as a party.

That said, I'm one who believe he was targeted by the ugly moral corrupt Republican party. I know Senator Franken will be exonerated.

[marieo1]

33. Do not resign, Al Franken

I cannot believe Al Franken tried to forcibly kiss anyone. All of the accusers that have given their identity are DJT supporters!! Al Franken is a good man.

[ffr]

34. I'm with Shred and Franken

Let it run its course. Franken should not resign.

[uponit7771]

39. Right !!! There will 100 more anonymous accusations against dem pols by EOY if Franken resigns !!