What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[lunamagica]

I don't get all these posts saying that Gillibrand, Harris, Perez and whoever else is asking Senator Franken to step down "must have access to information we don't have". WHAT? So he should step down over speculations before any investigation takes place?

If the announcement tomorrow is that he is resigning, I give up. It's been a horrible year, and I can't take it anymore

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Yep

But elsewhere at DU I'm being accused of using Republican thinking.

Uh - nope - republicans are the ones who believe 'guilty cuz I said so'.

[regnaD kciN]

2. Doesn't apply to men accused of sexual offenses...

[Leith]

8. More Precisely

That doesn't apply to Democratic or liberal men.

rethugs are never put on the hook. They're given government positions.

[VMA131Marine]

3. The court of public opinion is not a court of law

if you go with the innocent until proven guilty standard then there would be no reason for Roy Moore to step aside either (and I'm not implying in any way that what they are alleged to have done is equally bad).

[lunamagica]

5. But he is not stepping aside. Meanwhile, Al Franken has asked himself for

an investigation, but these Dem senators don't want to even bother with that.

Shame on them

[still_one]

7. not only that, Moore is definitely NOT asking for an investigation, which Al Franken is demanding

I will tell you right now, if the DNC calls to ask me for a donation, they can forget it

[brooklynite]

11. Alabamans will vote for Moore no matter what he does or says...

...can you say the same about Minnesotans?

[still_one]

16. While in the case of Alabama, it appears your assessment is correct, but we will know the answer to

that in a little over a week.

As for Minnesotans, no you cannot assume the same thing as Alabama.

However, isn't it only fair to let the investigation proceed before making a conclusion?

[brush]

13. Not the same. You're forgetting that Franken immediately asked for an investigation. Neither Moore..

or trump have as they want no part of an investigation.

[treestar]

15. Even so, it should require a little bit more than

just accusation in order to bring down someone's reputation. We are going to allow people to just say things and that's it?

[yallerdawg]

4. In "The Court of Public Opinion" -

Franken has been found guilty and sentenced.

Personally, I prefer the Al Franken of "1 in a Million" than the bottled-up and silenced "1 out of 48!"

[still_one]

6. That is exactly what the McCarthy era did.

[treestar]

14. +1

That is what it is starting to be like.

[gollygee]

9. That's a defense from legal consequences, not from any consequences from anyone

I agree there should be some sort of investigation or some strong evidence produced. One legal standard for guilt is "preponderance of the evidence" and that seems like a good general guideline. But people have the freedom to decide how to respond about any individual claim. Like, I could hear that someone is a bigot based on second hand information, and choose not to vote for them, or to shop at a place they own. I have the right to make that choice even if I don't have evidence.

It is possible other people have more information that has made them come to a different conclusion from you. I don't know. I would hope he wouldn't step down unless there was reason to, but on the other hand I would hope he would step down if there were good reason. I don't have any personal information so I can't make assumptions about whether it's out there.

[Paladin]

10. That's a Republican thing. Doesn't apply to Democrats.

And I'm with you on being close to giving up. The Democratic Party seems to be walking away from the fight, just when its efforts are needed the most.

[Deb]

12. No kidding

I'm so angry with her that posting more would get me kicked off.