Can someone enlighten me on the purpose of moving our embassy to Jerusalem?

[smirkymonkey]

Pardon my ignorance, but I am not well versed in Middle Eastern politics. The questions I have are:

- I know Trump has promised this to his base, but why does his base want this move so much?

- What do they hope to accomplish by this move?

- What will the fallout be if they actually go ahead with it?

- Does this need to be approved by congress or can he just go ahead with it on his own?

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

[elleng]

1. BeBe wants it.

[enough]

4. Not sure why you need the sarcasm. Sounds pretty accurate. NT

[elleng]

9. Was being cautious. Will delete.

Thanks

[sinkingfeeling]

21. +1000

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. It is purely for the ideological Trumpanzees (15% of the electorate) who say "fuck geopolitics".

The types who think that McCONnell and Ryan are liberal socialists.

Best vote of my life.
2 posted on 12/6/2017, 2:41:04 PM by DoughtyOne (McConnell / Ryan: Why pass Cons legislation when we can pass Leftist legislation for Leftists?)

I love this Man. Definitely has more guts/backbone than any President in the last 29 years. Maybe even more than Reagan.
3 posted on 12/6/2017, 2:41:14 PM by rbg81 (Truth is stranger than fiction)

I believe it may resolve an issue that was a roadblock to peace negotiations.

I know the West Bank and Gaza folks won’t see it that way, but that’s okay. They’ll have to come to terms with it.
Trump wouldn’t have done this without some consultation in the region.
Saudi Arabia and other nations may have been okay with this.
Support for a Saudi/Israel working relationship may have hinged on it.

IMO, we have a much better chance for a peace agreement under Trump, than ever before. I think he would work behind the scenes on this one, to make it look like a Middle-East based plan too. That would surprise some folks who always see him as a guy who wants credit.
Here, his name being involved would make folks react negatively without even looking at the plan.

He’s a clever guy.

23 posted on 12/6/2017, 2:49:50 PM by DoughtyOne (McConnell / Ryan: Why pass Cons legislation when we can pass Leftist legislation for Leftists?)

[Fred Sanders]

12. Congress of one country gets to decide capital of another? Good to know! One nation on the

entire planet agrees with the fake American regime.

2 out of 200 countries. What arrogance.

[Mosby]

13. Israel has a capital - it's Jerusalem.

Do you have a problem with that?

[Fred Sanders]

15. Palestine has a capital. Also Jerusalem. Yes, huge problem as seen by hundreds of countries.

Why so many on the planet representing billions in disagreement, not just me!

Arrogance by two countries temporary regimes.

[Mosby]

19. There is no country called Palestine.

Please stop making stuff up.

A sovereign nation gets to decide what city is their capital, is Israel different somehow?

[Madam Mossfern]

24. So then you agree

that Trump has no business deciding the capital of Israel.

[Igel]

46. Israel decided its capital decades ago.

It designated Jerusalem.

It's the rest of the world that's decided Israel alone doesn't have the right to name its own capital.

Oddly, much of the rest of the world's decided that Palestine can name extra-territorial territory as its capital. Sort of like the US naming, oh, Toronto as its capital.

[Fred Sanders]

59. The rest of the world versus 2 nations understand there are serious claims by both sides and

a unilateral declaration is ignoring one claim. Why is it 200 to 2?

[grossproffit]

66. Thank you for posting this.

[Fred Sanders]

25. Let someone else explain to you:

Indeed, Jerusalem's multifaceted meaning stands behind the interest of Muslims all over the world in the land of Palestine as a whole. The city has strong evocative and emotional associations and has its own place in the hearts of Muslims. It is considered the third-holiest city in Islam after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia. It derives its religious prominence from being the first Qibla, the initial direction toward which the Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslim community turned their faces in prayer. The direction was changed a year and a half later to Mecca by "divine command."
Jerusalem also derives significance from its association with Prophet Muhammad's miraculous nocturnal journey to the city and then his ascen¬sion to Heaven. This event is mentioned in the Koran in the first verse of chapter 17, "Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Holy Mosque to the Further Mosque (al-Masjid al-Aqsa), the precincts of which We have blessed, that we might show him some of our signs."

http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=646

[Yorkist]

52. I'm with Mosby.....

......it's up to the Israelis where their capital is. It causes no detriment to Palestinians, nor anyone else, for this to be recognised and accepted by the outside world. In fact, it seems a better option than everybody pretending it's somewhere else.

No ones saying the Palestinians can't declare Jerusalem their capital too when they're ready to form a state of their own. Are they ?

You'd think, wouldn't you, that the Arab side of this and their most vociferous supporters would be more pre-occupied with trying to strike a deal to form that state, rather than making a song and dance about how "offended" they are at the US announcing its intention to accept that water is wet, the sky is up and that the capital of Israel is Jerusalem.

There seems to be a lot of fake offence being taken, and being stoked up, over what - in the end - is inconsequential if you're a Palestinian who just wants to get on with life and raise a family.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Trump, no doubt for all the wrong motives, hasn't necessarily got this wrong.

[Fred Sanders]

57. Moving the worlds only embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is not a minor thing! If so

obvious why does the rest of the entire planet disagree?

[Yorkist]

65. Well that's just it isn't it ?

It IS a minor thing.

It shouldn't be cause for any particular outrage, it's not ethnic cleansing or cluster bombing or genocide. It's admin - and it wouldn't be causing outrage if the combined forces of a media obsessed by the PC line on this, along with Palestinian politicians and activist supporters weren't all agitating for 'rage' 24/7.

The Trudeaus and Macrons and Merkels will carry on pretending the capital is someplace else, and continue to indulge the Palestinians in the all consuming sense of injustice that's stops them getting anywhere.

And this cringing refusal to be straight with the Arab leadership and tell them to wake up to reality and stop fighting wars they lost hands down decades ago is achieving what exactly for your average Palestinian in the West Bank ?

[MadDAsHell]

55. Seems strange that one religions 3rd holiest city would trump anothers 1st. nt

[Fred Sanders]

56. NOT as strange as the British confiscating Arab land to create Israel out of thin air.

Both sides have a legitimate claim...hence the 70 year stalemate.

Trump just gave away a main negotiating asset and told the other side to fuck off. Great start to peace?

[Mosby]

62. the Zionists built a country out of nothing

No one gave Israel to the Jews, they built a state that was acknowledged by UN 181.

Jews are indigenous to the Levant (unlike say the hashemites) and Israel, Judea and Samaria are ancestral homelands.

Their rights are codified in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

[TDale313]

5. Can I add a dumb question?

Is this an end times thing? Not asking because I believe in it, but because so many of Trump’s evangelical supporters do, and would fervently like to see things occur that they see as signs that the time is close.

[OliverQ]

17. Yes. Any time Republicans/Evangelicals back things related to Israel

It's an end times thing. They don't actually like Jews, or support Jewish ideology. It's strictly a matter of viewing it as a further step to bring about the End Times and their impending Rapture.

[greeny2323]

6. It's for Christian fundies who believe it will help bring on the apocalypse

I'm not joking.

[smirkymonkey]

22. They really believe that shit? God help us!

Not that I believe in god, but that is absolutely insane.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

7. It must be because all franken pinched a camel there. Nm

[madaboutharry]

8. The evangelical base are believers in The End Times.

They believe that Armageddon is near. For reasons not entirely clear to me, the Jews need to be in control of Israel and Jerusalem, where the Messiah will return.

Not being a Christian, I'm certain I'm missing something. I'm sure others can fill in the missing parts.

But basically this is what this is about, and if the whole Middle East falls into chaos it will probably make that idiot happy.

[OliverQ]

18. If I recall correctly, Fundamentalist theology states that a One World

Government will rise under control of the Anti-Christ, and peace between Israel and Palestine is one of the precursors to that happening.

Destroying any chance of peace in that region seems to counter the End Times theology.

[smirkymonkey]

23. But the Christians don't like the Jews either.

I think I will have to look up the whole Armageddon thing. It all just seems totally fucked up to me. It just seems like one way or another, the republicans want to destroy the world.

[madaboutharry]

29. I had this house cleaner once who was a "serious Christian"

and an "End Timer." She totally believed Jesus was coming to take her and her family "home."

She believed she would be raptured during the Armageddon. It sounded nuts to me, but this is what many millions of people believe.

[smirkymonkey]

34. We're screwed, aren't we? I can't believe that so many people are so stupid.

I guess that explains why Trump is in office in the first place. If he doesn't start something with North Korea, it will be a conflagration in the Middle East. Either way, he will get his wish. He will destroy the planet for not loving him enough.

I read something about him today where his aides in the WH said he just wanted to destroy things - blow them up - I think their references were figurative, but eventually I think they will be literal. He will get his war by hook or by crook. He will make his mark on history. I am afraid we can't get rid of him fast enough.

[lunasun]

48. We are so screwed . Surrounded by idiots

[hedda_foil]

40. In the antitchrist's World War, only 144,000 (?) Jews will survive and convert en masse to Xtianity.

According to their interpretation of Revelations.

[smirkymonkey]

43. That is their interpretation.

Thank you for the explanation. I think they are wrong, but only time will tell.

[hedda_foil]

45. I completely agree. It's their batshit crazy interpretation of a lunatic bible chapter.

Not mine!

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Right here:

1. Trump only recognized Jerusalem to pander to American Evangelicals.

2. Evangelicals only want Israel to exist because God can't destroy it per New Testament if it doesn't.

3. Evangelicals need Jews killed to start a Second Coming so Christians get a jackpot.

It is based on the Book of Revelations, all that stuff about Armageddon, the "Israelites" need to occupy/ take over Jerusalem,
which will start a a war so terrible that all the Jews are killed, then Jesus...2nd coming .....and then good Christians
will Rapture to heaven and the earth will go poof or something.

Problem is some sects believe this and lots of politicians like Roy Moore advantage of it.
Meanwhile, Israel wants it for similar reasons.

[OliverQ]

20. Actually, Revelation states 144,000 Jews will be marked by God as

witnesses during the end times and are completely immune from being harmed.

[smirkymonkey]

26. That is just sick. I don't understand why Israel would go along with it.

Personally, I think they are all fucking idiots.

[klook]

11. To bring on The End Times.

Trump and his base want the Rapture now, it seems.

[smirkymonkey]

27. They do know that isn't going to happen, right?

God, these people are idiots.

[klook]

36. They KNOW it *is* going to happen!

More fun at www.chick.com!

[smirkymonkey]

39. Oh. Ok. I guess that explains it then.

WTF?

[lunasun]

50. Germany aligns with Russia and wild beasts are everywhere, oh my

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. Trump doesn't.......the closest religious idea he has, is to BE God. n/t

[Ohiya]

14. Trump is hoping to incite a terrorist attack...

[smirkymonkey]

28. Well, he's probably going to get his wish. I don't really see any other outcome.

And once it happens, he will have another excuse to declare war on more Middle Eastern countries.

[BigmanPigman]

16. Apparently it has two reasons...

1. Netanyahu apparently donated/gave a ton of money to the fucking moron.
2. Bannon wants to have WW3 and this is part of his big plan.

His regular base doesn't give a shit at all. In fact his alt-right minions mostly hate Jews ( and women and minorities).

[smirkymonkey]

31. But this was part of his promise to them. I thought he was doing this to please them.

I know that Bannon and Netanyahu are behind it, but I think his base wants it too. I think I am beginning to understand why, but it's just so insane. We can't let these people dictate foreign policy. They will kill us all.

[BigmanPigman]

33. That is what Chris Hayes was saying tonight.

Our foreign policy is now sold to the nations with the most money to slip to the fake prez. The GOP gets its sustenance from their rich donors in the same way. This is on a larger and more serious stage and it is a dangerous situation for our country and the world. Bannon and the fucking moron have sold us to the Russians, etc.and it continues. Add the fact that we have about 7 full time employees in the State Dept and we are looking at some very scary times ahead. This is why we have to get rid of the GOP and the White House ASAP! Buckle up....

[smirkymonkey]

37. They want to get rid of everyone who is trying to keep us safe.

If Mueller doesn't stop him, it's over. Not just for us. The fate of the world is at stake.

[BigmanPigman]

38. Yeah, I am well aware of that fact.

[MaryMagdaline]

32. To hasten the End Times

Evangelicals know the Rapture will not come until Israel holds Jerusalem

[smirkymonkey]

41. The rapture will never come. They are fooling themselves.

[MaryMagdaline]

49. And we get to go with them

Only there is no after life where I can tell them how wrong they were. It's like we are the animals who know there is death and they haven't caught on yet. What are we to do?

[Alice11111]

35. Trump bonespurs said in the campaign that he liked war,

so he's trying to add a few. Also, distraction! Plays to his racist, anti Muslim base. He's selling millions of $$$$ of our weapons in the Middle East, proving what a great dealmaker he is.

He likes choas and things that go Boom!

[The Wielding Truth]

44. Trump does the best impression of the anti-Christ. I can't see any wiggle room on comparison.

[Alice11111]

61. Maybe he thinks he is. There is definitely something

Very strange about him, in addition to the usually cited narcissistic, borderline personality, blah, blah. Our country has been turned upside town.

[triron]

42. Friedman says it was utterly stupid.

No big surprise, que no? Just like tearing up the TPP

[spanone]

54. Friedman's right, trump got nothing out of the deal, it was a give away....

he could have got concessions from the Israelis....but he just gave it away

deal maker, my ass

[moondust]

58. I agree with Friedman.

It could have been used as leverage in two-state negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians. Instead the Orange Dumbass gave it away for nothing while pouring gasoline on the smoldering fires of religious extremism in the Middle East and beyond.

[Mosby]

63. there is no elected leader of the Palestinians

Right now.

Until reconciliation happens between Fatah and Hamas, and elections occur no one on the Palestinian side has standing to enter into agreements with the Israelis.

The last agreement between the two sides happened almost 23 years ago, since then the Palestinian leaders have rejected everything to move the process forward.

At this point, people are just waiting for Abbas to die and see what happens.

[moondust]

64. It was still a bargaining chip.

No matter when negotiations take place. Drumpf just gave it away. I'm guessing he sees an opportunity to build another monument to himself, this time in Jerusalem at taxpayer's expense.

The Palestinians do seem to be making some progress on reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas and that may actually be a factor in why Drumpf is acting on this now.

[MaryMagdaline]

47. Saw Friedman just now

So sanctimonious about this move by Trump but he lost all credibility years ago by pushing the Iraq War. He can rot in hell with the rest of them.

[Ilsa]

51. With our state dept in ruins, why bother with Building a new embassy? nt

[Blue Owl]

60. Dotard Trump: The Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse

n/t