I thought Rachel might help.

[Jakes Progress]

She had Senator Hirono on to say why she and the gang of vigilantes came to the decision to demand Franken's resignation.

I mean. Okay. Maybe they had some really damning evidence, some first had knowledge of some behavior, something other than republican and anonymous accusations.

But no. Hirono said she just sort of decided it was time, that one more unsubstantiated claim was, you know, just too much.

So. Rachel didn't get it from anyone. Hirono said that Gellibrand put out her statement, so she rushed hers out there too. We seem to be able to find out testimony from inside grand jury deliberations, the contents of CIA wiretaps, the lunch menu for Air Force One. But no one can say why these senators turned on one of their own.

And Rachel didn't ask the question she should have asked. Has Hirono (or any of the brave souls on that list) issued a demand that trump resign? He has three times the accusers that Franken has.

Maybe they all just want to run for president and think Al would be a hard man to beat in the primary. I will have a hard time forking over one dime or giving one hour of my time for such judas behavior. It ill-serves the party. It ill-serves the country. And, particularly, it ill-serves the very real fight to change the way women are treated. It trivializes all the claims of rape victims and the truly oppressed to claim Al Franken's alleged (still no sworn testimony) sins are the same as those of harvey weinstein or donald trump. Actually, they claim Franken is worse than trump, since they haven't demanded that that asshole resign.

[flamingdem]

1. Lawrence is repeating this Zero Tolerance thing. He grabbed my waist and made me look unprofessional

WELL HOW ABOUT BIDEN WITH A VOTER ON HIS LAP??

What a LOT OF BULLSHIT

No Lawrence it's not a HIGHER GROUND. It's STUPIDITY

[Ilsa]

3. We will have the moral high ground in a fascist state with

A dictator and our safety nets getting paid to the oligarchs.
No thank you.

[Blaukraut]

7. The moral high ground and a Dollar will buy me a candy bar n/t

[Wounded Bear]

20. Not after Trumplation takes over...

[spooky3]

4. That one is such a bizarre accusation, IMHO.

I’m a professional woman too, and if he actually did that, maybe I would feel the same way, but it’s hard to understand why this is objectionable.

[spooky3]

2. Lawrence is covering it too.

He presented a Quinnipiac poll suggesting that Democrats are not as happy as they could be with their party’s handling of accusations and that 77% thought someone should resign if accusations were true (don’t recall the exact wording of this). My guess is that the Senators were at least somewhat influenced by this.

[Jimbo101]

5. so Franken has to take one for the team ,...

Wow - bull crap

[flamingdem]

6. No doubt the GOP influenced this poll or some other idiots made the questions

guilt provoking

[Jakes Progress]

8. With sitting Democrats it always comes down to a poll.

They are worried about how things look. They don't care about what is, but about how it might make them look.

It shows how completely out-of-touch Washington DC Democrats are with their base and supporters. The only people happy with their actions are deplorables who will vote for a child-molester.

One of the dumber things Democrats have ever done. It shake say confidence in the general intelligence and moral courage of sitting members of my party. (I'll have to think about how long the last two words in that sentence will apply. I am absolutely disgusted with them. I have the list and will not contribute one dime or hour working for any of them. If they have just and real cause to do this, let them be courageous enough to tell us why. Not just Hirono's "Well, it just seemed like the time.&quot

[LisaL]

9. They should be ready then. If somebody accuses them, even anonymously, they will have to go.

[Egnever]

10. Exactly right

Poll tested bullshit with zero conviction.

It is so old time to remove the old guard they have proven themselves spineless again and again.

Time for them to be primaried with young hungry candidates with a fire in their belly willing to stand for something.

These guys that have been there for 30 years are a huge part of our problems.

We can do better we have the right ideas our leaders just lack conviction.

[MaryMagdaline]

11. I think they know Al has a problem

Your co-workers always know. I think they will also challenge Roy Moore and demand an ethics investigation when he comes to Washington. Trying to get something out of a bad hand

They are also looking at Minnesota polls. Thinking better to step down and have at least some time to get a new candidate. Minnesota is a lot tougher on improper behavior than Alabama.

[LisaL]

12. They are going to investigate Moore for something that was alleged to have happened before

he becomes Senator (if he does)?
I will believe it when I see it.

[Jakes Progress]

14. I think you are projecting.

With weinstein, later, moore, and Conyers, there were lots of those who worked with them that said they knew. With Al, 136 women who worked with him for years said that these accusations were completely unfounded and that he had never behaved badly with any of them. So why believe 3 or 4 mostly anonymous republican operatives, but dismiss over a hundred women who put their name on paper and vouched for Al's decency? Is the love of scandal that strong?

As for your last paragraph, I loved a suggestion that someone made in another thread saying Al should resign and then immediately file to run for his seat in the Special Election. My thoughts are that he would win easily. You seem to think that Minnesotans are easily duped.

[MaryMagdaline]

17. I based my Minnesota comments on the polling

Only 20% said he should stay. Brutal. Al might have been our Senator in a national sense but his only path to senatorship was through Minnesota.

100's of letters in support mean nothing. One simple denial that he had touched Leeann or the Republican at the fair would have been enough for me to believe him. Once he did not deny contact it was WTF time for me.

[Jakes Progress]

18. I based my comments on your first paragraph.

Regarding the rest - Bull Shit.

As far as the this post, you are reading different polls than I. Hundreds of names of women who will testify and will identify themselves do mean something. Eight mostly republican or anonymous accusations don't. You want Al to do what weinstein and trump did - deny and attack. Al acknowledged the feelings of the women, but said that it didn't happen that way. Yes there was the juvenile photo. But he did deny touching her. He didn't bring up the photos of leeann leering and grabbing the butt of the guitar player with both hands. He didn't call anyone a liar (except for the aid who lied), but said he welcomed an inquiry by the ethics committee, knowing he would be exonerated. leeann had a fit when she heard about an inquiry, protesting that she didn't want that to happen, knowing she would be found a liar.

But then some people love them some drama and scandal - even one cooked up by the people who entertain you with breihbart.

Once you decided that his decent behavior in the face of accusation was bad and that breitbart stories were truthful it was wtf time for me.

[MaryMagdaline]

19. I decided his decent behavior was bad?

I thought his handling of the matter was as sound as it could get under the circumstances. I was relieved Leean accepted his apology. But there was a gaping hole where he did not deny contact and he could have denied it without calling her a liar. She was asleep and likely did not know whether she was touched. He could have said the mugging for camera was bad but any reports from others there that I touched her were Wrong and she was probably lied to if that was what she was told.

I was hoping he survived the polling in Minnesota. I am not loving this drama; I am sick about it. I did not call for him to resign. That is not the same as believing the accusers are liars. Like Linda Tripp, many of them are evil people who are telling the truth. It's a gotcha game and they got him. What to do after you are gotten is the whole argument here.

[Jakes Progress]

22. Okay. Blow it all up and burn it all down.

Go ahead and wreck #MeToo. Your quick decision to condemn Al without evidence and to equate those things he was accused of as equal to the actions of moore, trump, and weinstein will first diminish the impact of the movement on women who are truly oppressed and second will engender the backlash that will bring the movement to a halt. While you parse little elements of where was his finger and why'd didn't he respond the way you wanted him too, the movement dies a little.

He did say that he didn't touch her. He did say that the photo was a bad joke that he shouldn't have done. But you just wanted the drama that you say you don't love. leeann accepted he apology so that there wouldn't be an investigation. She knew that when the others who were in the group were questioned, they would show her lie. Al's military guard said he didn't recall any of the kind of behavior that leeann claimed. She knew that the musician she groped and the video of the skits would counter her breitbart attack. It worked. You fell for it.

Al was not guilty of the accusations. He was not "gotten". He was served up by his own party for political position. (A move that will do them absolutely no good.) Why would Al call for a full investigation, while the accusers ran from such an idea?

The "decent behavior" that I referred to was his attempt to respond to accusations differently than the moral degenerates like weinstein and trump. He didn't call them all liars. trump has said he is innocent and that he didn't do it and that all of the women attacking him are liars. By your criteria, that would mean he is not guilty. You can't have it both ways.

[MaryMagdaline]

23. Hmmm no equivalency Al is not Moore and

Trump. Moore and Trump belong in jail. Al needs a few lessons in courtesy. I did not call for his resignation. I must have missed the "I did not touch her" remark. I looked for it for the whole weekend after the accusation because I wanted to send something positive to my young cousin who was calling for his resignation. I wanted her to get off that subject since she was influencing other progressives (she is extremely active politically). But I can see that if I am being defensive here, there must be a reason. I will consider your views and mull them over. I will say this ... I felt sick to my stomache because I believed her and the Repug at the fair. Just because they are evil does not mean they are lying. I don't know if the Dems jumped the gun or if they think Al has a problem. I do think we lack leadership up and down the line.

[rufus dog]

16. I agree

they are going to stay in the minority and demand Moore is reviewed. Some might issue a sternly worded letter, and some will support them saying they are trying really hard to fix things while repukes tell them to stick it up their fucking ass.

[MaryMagdaline]

13. They will demand one; they are not in power

[Jakes Progress]

15. False flag.

They can't "demand" that Al resign either. He didn't have to listen to them. But they did anyway.

Sure trump wouldn't listen, but it sure sends a message to decent men that the best way to get ahead is to stop being decent. Lie. Attack those who accuse you. Deny. And become president. The message to the public is that Democrats will go after their own for innuendo, but not the enemy. It would cost them nothing to stand up and call for the president to step down for the same reasons that they used to call for Al's resignation.

[dalton99a]

21. I see nothing high or moral about backstabbing, disloyalty, and lynching without a trial