Looking over at the latest Franken complaint,

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2017, 02:49 AM - Edit history (1)

I find my support for him -- which had been very strong -- starting to weaken. Which breaks my heart.

The last report was from a former Democratic Congressional aide. She wasn't identified, but she is probably a real person, and a Democrat. And what she said -- that he tried to force a kiss on her, and laughed that it was his "right as an entertainer" -- was sadly in line with some of the other claims women have made.

And the other thing is this: 14 out of 16 women Senators have signed the letter asking him to resign. All of them have access to young female staffers. For all we know, they have been talking to those women, and those discussions have convinced them that the aide's story should be believed. The aide might still be in Congress, so they might even know who she is.

As painful and unfair as this situation feels (his crimes are so minor compared to Roy's) maybe we should trust the judgement of the 14 Democratic women in the Senate.

ON EDIT: If Franken continues to demand a hearing before he'll resign, then I'll support him in that -- at least, until there are serious new developments (i.e. as serious as John Conyer's actions) that can't be explained.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

1. Have any of those senators said anything like u are suggesting? I missed it so please quote it. Nm

[LisaL]

3. Nope.

Nobody said they knew anything more than what we all know.

[pnwmom]

27. No. Would it be in the party's interest for them to do so? By writing the letter,

they might be putting Franken on notice -- without having to embarrass him further.

I don't know. I'm just wondering.

[LisaL]

31. Maybe you should have watched Rachel today.

So you wouldn't have to wonder about something that didn't happen. There was a senator on who flat out explained why they decided to demand his resignation, and it was nothing like what you are suggesting.

[pnwmom]

32. It's not 9 o'clock here yet. I'll watch her then. n/t

[KPN]

47. My first reaction exactly. Putting words in their mouths so to speak.

[spooky3]

2. If they had said, we have been given additional

information that we cannot make public” I might react differently. But I have not heard anyone say that.

[LenaBaby61]

9. THIS

[Gravitycollapse]

4. I trust the accusers. I also trust the Democratic women who have spoken out.

If we trust unidenfitied, but journalistically verified, accusers of our political opponents (and we do), then we must do the same for those who accuse members of our own party.

The world will not end with the resignation of Franken. I have faith that Minnesota will vote responsibly.

[Jakes Progress]

12. Name the Democratic women accusers you support.

And no. I don't convict anyone in my mind on unsubstantiated accusations.

trump, putin, the koch's, and bannon love that their crap even works on Democrats.

[LisaL]

15. As far as I know, none of the accusers who are supposedly Democrats gave their names.

Except the one who claims she was groped when Al put his hand around her waist for a photo op?
I totally believe that one, I just don't agree with her idea of what groping is.

[pnwmom]

30. But the reporter would have verified that she was a Democratic Congressional aide in 2006.

Last edited Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:09 AM - Edit history (1)

And the women Senators, through the grapevine, are likely to know who she is.

[KPN]

48. Or for all we know, she hasn't been one since ____ ! We don't know squat about her.

This is a vigilante mob catalyzed by the GOP, and we're actually being righteously high-minded and falling for it. God help us.

[pnwmom]

49. It has been eleven years since the incident supposedly happened. Not so long ago.

DU doesn't know anything about her, but the Democratic Senators probably do.

[KPN]

50. Probably? This is nothing more than a lynch mob.

[Gravitycollapse]

17. You mean name the dozens of Democratic congresswomen who told him to resign?

Those are the women I'm speaking of. Real talk: I trust their judgement more than I trust yours.

And, frankly, I don't give a single crap about any of those a-holes you mentioned because this isn't a game of whataboutism. It's an attempt to deal with the systematic sexual violence against women in our society.

[LisaL]

21. No, that's obviously not what poster was asking you to do.

[kcr]

22. ACORN! n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. This

And may I add Shirley Sherrod.

[LenaBaby61]

5. Franken flatly denied this last allegation.

What I don't like is that we're not allowing the process to play out. What happens the next time if another Dem is accused of sexual misconduct because they were set up or the person whose alleging the sexual misconduct has an axe to grind? We gonna thrown them out with no investigations too? That makes me feel very uneasy, because I put nothing past thuglicans like Bannon and his minion Roger Stone. They probably figure, let's start aiming at x Dem because they'll be asked to resign with no investigations.

[LisaL]

8. What will happen is that they will have to resign.

Because that is our standard now.

[Bettie]

14. Our standard now is that any allegation, anonymous

with no proof is enough that any member of congress must resign immediately.

If they are Republicans, they'll be praised and reelected over and over though with nary a peep from any remaining Dems.

[LisaL]

19. If that goes, one would think pretty soon there won't be many dems remaining.

[Bettie]

25. I expect to see another set of allegations (anonymous, of course)

by the end of the month, maybe beginning of January if the troll farms have time off for the holidays.

By the time the election in '18 rolls around, all the Koch ads will be about the five or more Dems who have been forced to resign over sexual misconduct allegations.

[LenaBaby61]

23. Boy ....

Is that a frightening standard. A standard that thuglicans won't ever follow, because McTurtle and lying Ryan etc. won't ask them to resign. I don't see Moore being expelled from the Senate. I think that if he leaves, it'll be because he'll be afforded the right to leave if he decides he wants to.

tRumputin has NO intention of leaving the White House on sexual accusations. And, we know Moore won't leave. He'll be seated in the Senate voting against women/children and laws put up to protect them against domestic violence/sexual assault.

Aren't people who are accused of something as serious of sexual misconduct/possible rape deserving of an investigation at least?

Good God, where are we going with this?

[flamingdem]

6. He denied this

It's he said, she said and anyone can say anything, and people perceive things differently not to mention how memory changes over years

[msongs]

7. unidentified. anonymous. maybe we should just trust the judgement of mitch mcconnel too

[HipChick]

13. so gameplay is accuse

and then do Dem roll over and die to get of a Dem Senator ... Got it

[dflprincess]

10. I thought it sounded like she was paraphrasing Trump

When she "quoted" what she claims Al said.

[Bettie]

18. It kind of did

I thought that too.

[oasis]

35. That was the quote that really seemed fishy. 11 years later,

she remembers the quote, verbatim. And by the way, it oddly resembles Trump's exchange with Billy Bush.

[Jimbo101]

11. you lost me at "for all we know"

[Jakes Progress]

16. I've followed you. You are smarter than this.

There is less evidence here, than the crap they tossed about about Hillary.

[renate]

66. that's a good point

The GOP does have a pattern of pointing their fingers and going "well, how about...." on the basis of something that looks fishy but isn't.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. What about all the women who have signed statements supporting him -

women who worked with him at SNL and in his Senate offices, and who have said he always was respectful and that they never saw him do anything inappropriate? And signed their actual names? Can't we believe them, too?

[LexVegas]

24. They are right. He has to go. nt

[trueblue2007]

65. They are WRONG. He has to STAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jakes Progress]

67. The koch's agree with you.

It was their idea for you to think that when they set this up. bannon and the acorn group also celebrate your opinion.

[LexVegas]

69. Newt Gingrich and Laura Ingraham are on your side.

[Jakes Progress]

70. You know why.

They need excuses for their orange baby.

Those that side with you, like the koch's, just don't want a smart Democrat to keep after their little weasel, jeff sessions.

I'll take the side that want's smart Democrats in office over the side that wants them gone.

[Nevernose]

26. Franken totally denied it

The accusation is that Al Franken approached her at random — because they’d never seen or met each other before — and she assumed he wanted to kiss this total stranger. But he didn’t.

And the words he spoke afterwards just happen to be a paraphrase of Trump’s Access Hollywood vulgarity.

The accusation is literally “Al Franken didn’t kiss a total stranger, and then quoted Donald Trump.”

[Rocky888]

28. Senator Al Franken deserves an ethics investigation.

He is the only man accused out of all that demanded an ethics investigation into himself.
Don’t forget about the ACORN coup.
The timing of this after franken catching Sessions in three lies under oath made them ALL angry.

[musette_sf]

29. Since Sen Franken outright denied this BS,

and since it puts words in Sen Franken's mouth that sound nothing like him, and completely like Rump, all this "complaint" has done is make me double down on my support for Sen Franken.

[LisaL]

33. As long as she is probably a real person...

I guess we have to believe an anonymous allegation of attempted kissing.

[pnwmom]

37. No. I am just suggesting that the Congressional women Democrats might actually know

this former aide, and they might have good reason to believe her.

[bagelsforbreakfast]

38. Again, can u back this claim up?

[BannonsLiver]

44. I find myself agreeing with you on a lot of things

But from my POV it’s a bit of a red herring at this point. It’s more likely this is about triangulation and some feeble attempt for the elusive moral high ground.

[DonCoquixote]

36. ewhat hapeed to due process

not that al is innocent, but at the very least, he submits himself to the process, which is mroe than a senator moore would.

[brooklynite]

40. That due process applies to Roy Moore, doesn't it?

We're not talking about criminal charges; we're talking about political viability.

[Egnever]

41. Are you seriously conflating what Al is accused of (which is at it's worst inappropriate behavior)

With the multiple accusers of Roy Moore who also happens to think gays should die and women should be forced to have children.

Complete with freaking year book signatures?

Seriously? those seem like equal situations to you?

One has damn near every single woman he worked with even ones who don't particularly like him signing letters of support and the other has malls expelling him for his lecherous behavior but they are exactly the same?

That is just so ridiculous I find it difficult to believe you even posted it.

[brooklynite]

42. I'm conflating the expectation of due process...which is unrelated to the seriousness of the offense

[LisaL]

43. And Moore is running. Trump endorsed him. If he wins he will be in a Senate and

if you believe Republicans will refuse to seat him I have a nice bridge for sale.

[brooklynite]

45. "Vote Democratic: we're just as bad as the Republicans"

[LisaL]

46. No, we are much better.

But for some reason we don't have the House, the Senate, or the presidency. Go figure.

[Rocky888]

39. Senator franken has earned the right to an ethics investigation.

Roy Moore accusers went on record under oath.
So should franken accusers.
I had to write and sign full statement in front of a cop after my attack.
Trump accusers went on the record.
The senators telling franken to step down are out of line, both parties.
What if your neighbor called the lady cal news station and said you grabbed their private parts, they reported it because neighbor said it was true, then you are forced from your job without any investigation.
There are also several discrepancies over the photo of Tweeden sleep8ng in a flack jacket.
We use to have a civil and or a judicial process.

[orleans]

51. ever been around performers and actors before?

i know al was trying to get more serious when he was at air america which is when this supposed "he tried to kiss me" happened -- but he had been in the entertainment business for years and years and years.

there are PLENTY of hugs and kisses hello and goodbye all the damn time--sometimes it's just stupidly second nature, sometimes it's just an automatic reaction to a greeting or a parting, sometimes you're in a hurry and you're not even really thinking about it when you do it.

we don't know what kind of kiss was intended--if, in fact, there was one intended at all.

she "ducked"

so what's the big freakin deal?

plumbers don't do it. accountants don't do it. clerks don't do it. bankers don't do it. sales people don't do it. mail delivery people don't do it. teachers don't do it.

people involved in the arts have a tendency to occasionally kiss or hug hello and goodbye.

[dhol82]

52. What bothers me is that she ducked

If she ducked how did she know that he was going to kiss her forcefully?
Gosh, guess we’ll never know. Could it have been in her imagination? Or in someone else’s imagination?

This whole thing sounds like a Roger Stone dirty ops play.
😢

[orleans]

55. yes, it *does* sound like a roger stone dirty ops move

so...
i guess we have to kick al out of the senate

[secondwind]

53. The comedian never left him. :-(

What a sorry end for this otherwise compassionate, hard-working and fearless champion of the people. Am sick over this.

[pnwmom]

54. I am, too. n/t

[LisaL]

56. An anonymous accusation of attempted kissing many years ago really got you going.

[pnwmom]

57. No. It was the reaction of 14 of the 16 women Senators to the claim of the Congressional aide.

This is a staffer many of them might know in person. And they know Franken. And this seemed to be the final straw.

I can't help but take that seriously, even though I'm still against a zero tolerance policy.

[LisaL]

58. Which is a total speculation on your part that you keep repeating.

You haven't provided any evidence in support of that idea.

[pnwmom]

59. It isn't speculation that 14 Democratic women Senators signed the letter.

And it isn't speculation that they are more in a position to know how Franken was comporting himself in Congress than anyone here.

[LisaL]

60. I know they signed the letter.

You are speculating that there is a reason behind it they haven't claimed. And keep on repeating it without evidence.

[pnwmom]

61. And you keep ignoring the fact that many of them are likely to KNOW the aide personally,

because she was definitely working there as recently as 2006, and maybe even longer.

[LisaL]

62. She is anonymous.

Unless you claim there was only one aide working "as recently as 2006"

[pnwmom]

64. To us, she is. nt

[Jakes Progress]

68. I'm sorry, but you speculate. Please

I can do that too. Let's see. How about Gillebrand wants to run for the nomination and sees that Franken was a likely opponent? How about a frenzy of self-righteousness and a one-upmanship game of condemnation emails? How about a completely misguided attempt to score political points with a high ground position where they can scream zero-policy and look tough?

Those are no more likely than your concept that an aide that all 14 knew from 11 years ago (some of those people weren't in office 14 years ago) tipped their opinion of a man they universally said they had admired for years. Why do you credit one unidentified aide, but ignore the more than one hundred women with years of working with Al, who put their name to a letter praising Franken and saying that the accusations did not bear any resemblance to the man they knew and worked with and that he had never been untoward with any of them?

This is a set-up. A shiny bit of scandal theater to dupe those who want to do the right thing. It seems to have worked. One wonders what the message is A decent man handles accusations with a sincere apology for slights he committed, does not attack the accusers, and asks for an official inquiry into his behavior (which the accusers vociferously denied wanting since they didn't want the matter examined.) His fellow Democrats rush past all inquiry and trash him and his name and end his career.

On the other hand, a serial cad who boasts of grabbing women's pussies because he can, with three times the number of accusers (most of whom are public about their identities) gets to poison the judiciary, ruin the lives of immigrants and refugees, desecrate our lands, and sit in a position to start a war that will kill millions. He does this without any condemnation or formal complaints from Democrats, most of whom did not support a bill calling for his impeachment for being unfit for he job. They find trump fit for the presidency, but All Franken unfit for the Senate. Again. Please.

[leftstreet]

63. Trust us, we know what's best for you

ugh