I have not heard that Al over-powered anyone, or threatened anyone. Am I wrong?

[lindysalsagal]

Did I miss something? Seriously, I'd like to know.

[Soxfan58]

1. And they were all adults

[Jarqui]

2. I haven't either

I'm still looking for the regulation that says we have to have senators that like to diddle little girls so their local malls have observed ...

[Cicada]

3. You are missing the reason Al should leave

Al did not have an ability or desire to harm these women. They had no reason to fear he could cause them harm. But he did make them feel bad. But that’s not what is important. Democrats can gain by being seen as the protector of women while Republicans are viewed as harming women. Franken,s presence weakens that message as a practical matter. Franken’s presence will provide cover for some to claim the Democrats are not all that different from Republicans, that Democrats are hypocrites who aren’t sincere. That’s a stupid argument but it is an argument with some effectiveness, at least to a small degree. The ability of Democrats to win over some additional low information voters is more important than fairness to one person, the wonderful Al Franken whose minor sins are overwhelmed by his efforts for good.

[uponit7771]

4. "Democrats can gain by being seen as the protector of women " This is false on its face and without

... going through due process the KGOP will just call them predators anyway.

I don't know where some people have been for the last 15 years, the KGOP isn't a group of good hearted people wanting to do what's right for America any longer

[Cicada]

9. Most Democrats in the Senate agree with me, are they clueless?

The Democrats in the Senate do not view my argument as false on its face. They have lifetimes of experience in the field of vote getting. They have all succeeded in getting votes. They have advisors with lifetimes of experience and records of success. So they may be correct.

And the harm in the unlikely event they are wrong? It is not hard to see that the life of one little person does not add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world. It made Ilsa and Rick suffer but for the greater good she had to get on that plane leaving Casablanca. Someday you will understand that.

[Cosmocat]

10. Clueless, no. Spineless, yes.

that is what people are chaffing against ...

[Cicada]

14. Is it spineless to avoid shoving a stick in a hornets nest?

Yes, it is spineless to let those hornets get away with their evil ways. Politicians are spineless in many ways because that makes it possible for them to get elected. We live in an imperfect world where sometimes it is wise to stay the fuck out of the way of those damned hornets.

[Cosmocat]

17. It is spineless to breathlessly get caught up in the moment

Gee ... I am going to look bad if I don't step up with the rest of the senate to put a knife into caeser.

I know people in their self righteousness don't get it, but this is some great moral victory for some within our party.

That is it.

There will be 0 republicans who go, "gee, the dems deal with their people a lot tougher, so I am now see the light."

AND, there will be 0 people in the mushy middle who go, "I really respect dems now!"

What is going to happen is even before Franken's rotted corpse is drug off the floor of the senate, the Rs will lose their shit over some ginned up bullshit like Benghazi or Hillary's e-mails, and the mushy middle will continue to quiver in the corner, sucking their thumbs babbling "they are both the same ..."

Maybe he needs to go, but the rush to do him is a PROTOTYPE Dem circular firing squad, THAT is what people are having an issue with.

[uponit7771]

21. AMEN !!!

[Cicada]

27. Who knows more about politics, you or those who have won elections?

You may be right. As Dan Rather said the strong and the fast don’t always win the fight, but that’s definitely the smart way to bet. My money is on the judgment of the seasoned professionals in the Senate. And I agree with them independently of their views, tho I admit I am often wrong.

[Cosmocat]

44. I have won elections

for whatever that is worth.

Again - He may very well have had to go eventually, but there is a reason the overwhelming majority of the people on this site hate how this shook down.

This was prototype democratic capitulation on steroids.

[Thor_MN]

23. It is spineless to kill one of your own on anonymous allegations and remain silent on GOP misconduct

[Cicada]

29. The allegations arent all anonymous, Dems are not silent on GOP sins

[Thor_MN]

33. The two that are not are dubious at best. You have been silent on GOP sins.

A DU search of "cicada farenthold" results in exactly one result that has nothing to do with you.

How about you tend to your own knitting down in Texas and quit trying to tar and feather my senator here in Minnesota?

[lame54]

25. Didn't Ilsa get on the plane to fight nazi's?...

Then why are we kicking out our best nazi fighter

[Cattledog]

30. If that's the hill Dems want to die on so be it.

[Merlot]

31. What needs to be protected is women's RIGHTS, not women. Big difference.

A number of awful things have been done under the guise of "protecting women."

[uponit7771]

35. +1

[ProfessorPlum]

6. what the Democrats are displaying is weakness

like they do time after time after time after time.

Meanwhile, the evil display strength.

and now, voters will get to choose between weakness and strength. Your hypothesis is that they will vote for weakness.

Good luck.

[smirkymonkey]

11. +1000

Completely agree. If we looked like wimps before, this is going to solidify our reputation for being namby-pamby little milksops.

[Cicada]

12. Do you think women enjoyed what Al did?

Why is it weak to ask that he pay a price for making women feel badly?

Punishing Al makes such misbehavior less likely in the future. Isn’t that more important than the desires of one person?

Supporting Roy Moore shows the world that the Republicans are strong. I think the Republicans are strong. That doesn’t make me want to vote for them.

You think this weakness is a net loser for Dems. But most Dem senators disagree with you. I disagree with you. I am pathetic at accurately predicting political consequences. But all Senators have proven they know enough to get elected. They have decades of detailed informed experience. They probably know what they are doing.

[ProfessorPlum]

13. Franken can be held accountable in a million ways for any shortcomings or sins,

real or imagined, he may have committed. Civil suits, official statements of reprimand, apologies, etc.

But he is a real fighter against the forces of greed and kleptocracy and as such neither his senate colleagues nor even Al himself has the right to take him out of this fight. We need him. and we need to show strength in the face of what is, at this point, a transparent example of ratfucking.

[Cicada]

16. He is replaceable and he can continue the fight outside the Senate

Is he more helpful staying? The experienced pols who serve as Dems in the Senate think our cause is better served by him leaving. They love Al Franken a lot more deeply than you and I do, they love him deep down. But they know that one little person doesn’t add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world. With tears in their eyes they are telling Al he needs to get on that plane flying out of Casablanca. They think that someday you will understand that.

[ProfessorPlum]

18. he is not replaceable

[Cicada]

24. Your hand is not replaceable but sometimes it must go to save your life

I know there are banana workers with machetes who have seconds to cut off their hands if a certain snake bites it. At least I read that. So maybe you are correct that he is irreplaceable. But that does not necessarily mean he should not be amputated.

[Thor_MN]

26. You appear to be from Texas. How about you worry about your own politicians?

Why are you not speaking out on Farenthold? He spent YOUR money to hush up non-anonymous allegations of behavior much worse that Franken has been anonymously accused of. Why the hypocrisy?

[Cicada]

32. It is no shame being from Texas, only a shame having to go back

As the great Texas philosopher Kinky Friedman once said. When he lived in what he described as a fabulously decorated ten foot green trailer in Kerrville.

[Thor_MN]

34. The only one mentioning shame and Texas is you...

Although I'll chip in and say that is a shame that you won't talk about a Representative from Texas and want to shoot your mouth off about a Senator from Minnesota... Curious, that... Why would someone not say a word about a local issue and be so very wordy about something happening clear across the nation?

[Cicada]

36. I live in California, I don't appreciate being attacked for my sincere views

I don't like American cheese. I only rarely have attacked it here. I think it is an insult to America to call it American cheese. Does that mean I must also attack other lesser cheeses?

I bet I have posted more attacks on Republican sex offenders than you have. I just don't post them here because that would be preaching to the choir.

We all want the same things, for the most part. I respect your views. I think you have every right to your views. I agree you may be right and I may be wrong. I love Al Franken too. I think it is unfair that he should have to leave the Senate but I think his leaving would serve a greater good.

I think it would be better if you took the same attitude of respect toward what I think as I take toward what you think. Fighting among ourselves is not a good idea, in my opinion.

And someday not too far away my former home Texas will be a blue state. It is just having growing pains right now.

[Thor_MN]

37. I don't appreciate you attacking my Senator when you can't vote from him.

Your favorite group is Texas, I took that to mean that you were from there. You have been totally silent in Farenthold, so pelase don't claim that you have attacked more GOP sex offenders.

There's a difference between you and me, I CAN, and have, voted for Franken. You CAN NOT.

[Cicada]

40. Ok, let's be honest. Brainerd sucks.

yes, I know it looked all glamorous and everything in Fargo. I know the people who live there according to the movie are glamorous and lead exciting lives. Yes I was jealous when Norm Gunderson got the three cent stamp. It seems wonderful in the summer. But have you really ever spent a winter there? I swear to god they have polar bears there, real polar bears in people's back yards.

So there.

[Thor_MN]

41. Brainerd? No. Minnesota, every last fucking winter for 55 years, yes.

Only a complete moron would think that Polar bears exist outside the Arctic.

Very clever, attacking the state instead of me. Prevents you from being bounced for your behavior.

Isn't time for you to go hide until the next chance to stir the pot? Still waiting on your posting attacking GOP sexual predators...

Oh, what? You don't do that? I wonder why?

[Cicada]

42. Sometimes humor is wasted...

[Thor_MN]

43. Humor? When I hear some, I'll laugh.

Only thing I see is attacks and mocking.

I wonder if, like hermit crabs trading up in shells, there are scrambles for rocks.

[Bengus81]

15. Tweeden ENJOYED what these two did--posted it on her My Space page....

Tweeden posted these guys are just "being silly". But when it came to Franken it was the end of the world.



Here's another "groping" picture by the last accuser

[Orsino]

5. If he was bigger and stronger than any of the targets, that was a kind of threat.

I'd love to believe that even if the allegations are all true, that he simply let the women go on their merry way after a physical advance, but I dunno.

[ProfessorPlum]

7. the allegations are all about him touching people while being photographed in a crowd of people

of course they go on their merry way. with a picture to remember it by.

[Orsino]

8. All the allegations so far, yes.

I want so badly to believe that they are all fabricated that I will not allow myself that privilege. A resignation today will probably be read as an admission of guilt and a fear of further charges...but I would understand a poliician's simply wanting to avoid making his career all about harassment of women.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. If I was to start a thread

If I was to start a thread where I wrote that I grabbed the buttocks or breasts of a woman without her consent and she called the police and I was arrested would anybody here give me succor ?

I hope not.

[FBaggins]

22. Gee... I don't know

How reliable is your voting record?

I hear you're pretty outspoken on key issues too. I would have to take that into account.

[ananda]

20. NO. This is all orchestrated by Roger Stone and the rightwing machine.

nt

[bagelsforbreakfast]

28. That's not the point -- all anonymous accusers must be believed without proof!

[Nevernose]

38. Really LOOK at the accusations

Not just CNN’s bullshit “two more accusers.”

One woman alleged that when they posed for a photo, he put his arm around her waist, but didn’t actually touch anywhere or do anything wrong.

One of the accusations is literally “after he thanked me on stage, he kissed me on the cheek, but I thought he wanted to kiss me on the lips.”

That anonymous accuser’s corroboration was an on-the-record woman whose corroboration literally consisted entirely of “We never interacted, but Al Franken looked at my boobs that night.”

This shit is crazy. People should feel bad for listening to gossip-y headlines and not looking deeper, and the media should be fucking ashamed. I hope Franken starts filling libel and slander lawsuits in the morning, because at least some of them are slam dunks.

[ProfessorPlum]

39. thank you

people are fucking nuts. the GOP starts spreading around slander, and they are rushing to slit their own throats.

Fight! Do something! call out the slander! Point out that this is all for the benefit of Master Putin. Anything, except display such fucking weakness.