I could not disagree more with Gillibrand

[WyLoochka]

I finally read her, fire up the mob screed, on facebook.

She said: "We should not have to be explaining the gradations between sexual assault, harassment and unwelcome groping."

What planet is she on? We Democrats specialize in distinctions, gradations, grey areas. We value discernment and the ability to evaluate differences, most importantly the differences between truth and bullshit. That's our thing.

I am sorry she doesn't want to teach her kids these things. But I certainly think we should continue teaching them to ours. If she had her way, everyone would be resorting to carrying their selfie sticks pointed from the waist outward at all times so they wouldn't - horror of horrors touch someone else - it might be *gasp* an "unwelcome touch"

She doesn't have an inkling of an idea about what constitutes justice either. Lynch mobs have never been known for getting to the truth or for dispensing calm, level headed, wise, informed justice. We want truth, we want justice. That's another Dem thing.

The puritanical, let's not have any joking around, budding authoritarian Gillibrand needs to stand down her unwarranted attack on Franken.

She needs to do some deep reflection about her eager willingness to harshly punish and banish someone for #gasp# having posed for thousands of photos with women. She's wrong to have whipped up this hysterical mob. It's cruel and immoral.

[NCTraveler]

1. Stop blaming women. Nt

[OliverQ]

4. Women are immune from criticism of any kind?

[dalton99a]

7. +1

[trueblue2007]

26. no we are not. we women are human and we should be criticized when we are wrong.

Guillibrand is wrong.

[uponit7771]

14. Red Herring

[WyLoochka]

19. I will blame someone whom I believe to be destructive

Male or female. Gillibrand is a woman - she's wrong - she's actually doing great harm to the cause she has claimed by equilibrating brief brushes or wraps of a hand or arm against / around someone during a photo op, with the evils of actual harassment and assault.

She destructive - she insists we give no time at all to hear Franken and his accusers out in a fair and decorous manner. She's not interested in truth, she's not interested in justice. She wants a head on a stick.

Gillibrand has morphed herself into a demagogue on this issue - she's a mob leader. I blame her.

[trueblue2007]

28. i blame her too. she is destroying Al Franken's reputation.

he deserves to go through the investigation.

[Snotcicles]

2. Lynch first confirm later. nt

[Bettie]

9. Lynch first....

and then, why bother confirming...he's already gone!

On to the next anonymous/spurious accusation and removal of effective legislator!

And then another and another. Wonder if she realizes they will eventually come for her too?

[n2doc]

3. She has burned any chance of winning nationally n/t

[elfin]

5. I agree. Strongly. EOM

[dalton99a]

6. Absolutely.

[LexVegas]

8. Of the many that have called for Franken to step down, why single out Gillibrand,?

[WyLoochka]

21. She led the pack with facebook screed and press conference

The rest of them have earned plenty of scorn as well.

Particularly 2nd in command, Kamala Harris who, as an attorney, knows all about the extreme importance of providing for full due process, but throws that great American value away in the rush to get near the head of the mob.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. I, for one, am wary of a politician who won't take the time to look for the degrees

of separation. Would you want a judge on the bench who is unable to parse the differences?

There will be a cost to her level of intolerance, because we simply can't apply it retroactively without hobbling ourselves. In sum, it is a stupid policy that will give the GOP another winning strategy against us. Look where PC attempts got us. This is that on steroids.

[kcr]

11. It was shameful grandstanding.

Someone wants to be president.

[mythology]

12. Let's say you're right about needing to teach kids

Some degree of sexual predation is okay. Where's the line of unwanted touching that we should tell them to put up with? There are grey areas in sex, but groping without consent isn't one of them. It's not even that he was on a date and could claim he misread her body language.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I am astounded that some people believe unwanted touching is acceptable.

To those that do , they should walk up to a man or woman and grab his or her chest or buttocks and see what happens.

Common sense is part and parcel of wisdom.

[YessirAtsaFact]

31. Im astounded at the rush to judgment

Have an ethics inquiry. Don’t just follow the lynch mob.

If there is anything solid in the accusations, then Franken should go.

But this smells like a smear campaign to normalize Roy Moore and distract from Russia.

Blindly believing the women is just as wrong as ignoring them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. He already admitted to touching.

He just said the touching was misinterpreted.

Rule one- you don't get to tell someone how they should feel.

I am going to the gym later. If I touch a man or woman in the nether parts without his or her consent I will lose my gym membership, risk being arrested, and quite possibly lose my incisors as well.

[WyLoochka]

23. I don't believe Franken "groped" women during photo ops

Their stories are preposterous. They don't add up.

That's probably why they don't want an investigation. They suspect people would call them on their bullshit.

[rainin]

29. I don't believe it either. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Please google this and get back to me

"...The puritanical, let's not have any joking around, budding authoritarian Gillibrand needs to stand down her unwarranted attack on Franken..."

Please google this and get back to me:

“To the best of my knowledge, even the one which broke today, the horrifying last straw which led Senate Minority ... As I understand it, that occurred two years ago when he was a comedian. Al Franken was a comedian. Comedians often do weird things. He was in the entertainment business. He was doing the kind of things people in the entertainment business do.”

Thank you in advance

[Zoonart]

15. The Rep. from Hawaii was on last night and she

really angered me. She kept talking about the moral imperative of this culturally significant moment in the women's right movement, based on the Time magazine cover.

I really lost it and started yelling at my television. How arrogant and entitled she sounded. I mean... it is just outright stupid. This "Me Too" movement is entirely egocentric...it is a feel good moment... not a legislative victory for women. By blurring the lines between a clumsy pass and sexual assault
you make all arguments of innocence irrelevant. It everybody is guilty, then no one is guilty.

These congressmen and senators that are herding Franken out while claiming to be part of a culturally significant ME TOO movement are abdicating their. mandate to lead. IF the Republicans can hang this scalp on their belt... who will be next?

They are caving to the mob on the internet and throwing their female constituents under the buss by enabling the right to dictate who we elect.
Meanwhile Republicans say...FUCK YOU... WE WILL ELECT AND EMPOWER EVERY MONSTER WE CHOOSE. OH AND BY THE WAY... THOSE MONSTERS ARE COMING. FOR YOUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, BIRTH CONTROL AND YOUR HEALTH CARE!

No worries ladies we will have the righteous indignation of our party to keep us warm.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. There is a huge difference between a clumsy pass and unwanted touching.

The former is boorish. The latter is potentially criminal.

[SHRED]

18. I heard her also and got upset

Well said.

[mopinko]

20. i think the time cover touched this off.

i think it touched a deep nerve in a lot of people.
maize horono. she was struggling the other day talking about it.

[Zoonart]

22. This struggle is bigger than

her giving in to her internalized oppression and exacting a purge in the one political party that actually gives a shit about women.
She has to stand apart from this and think of he constituents. This will weaken the party and show the crazies on the right exactly where to put the knife in.Ms. Horono has to be smarter than that. We all have to be smarter than that. The right has learned to weaponize our outrage and we need not to take their bait.

We need to deliberate and get the facts. Senator Franken asked for an inquiry. Why can't he get one?

I have been date raped and possibly abused at a young age. I'm not certain, and I have not pursued it in therapy. I refuse to cave to the victim-hood cult.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger. It also makes me work for solid and definable change... not revenge.

[mopinko]

24. i find the whole thing disturbing. it smells so much of ratfucking.

and the fact that franken had ZERO power in any way over any of these women is what really puts it in another category for me.
really, squeezing someone around the waist? come on.

[deurbano]

37. I really don't get that last one.

And I don't know exactly what to think about any it since the first allegation (which seemed the most serious) was made by a birther, Hannity guest, Vulgar Talking Yam supporter who seemed to be pretty bawdy (and touchy) herself during the USO tour. And this last allegation (from a source with seemingly less of an agenda) involves... what? (Not exactly getting the impropriety.) After seeing what initially happened with Seder, I think the investigation should have been allowed to play out (giving voice to the accusers and accused), and I don't understand the need by prominent Democrats to skip all that and rush to force him out. I can guarantee there has been much more egregious behavior by legislators on both sides of the aisle... so when new allegations arise, will all the offending Democrats be pushed out? (Since it sure the hell won't happen to Republicans...) Even in states where the Democrat may be replaced by a Republican who will proceed to make the lives of women much more miserable than the effect of squeezing someone's waist?

[rainin]

30. Pissed me off, too.

I wish we really had just one truly liberal channel. I watch MSNBC because it's all I have, and have to suffer through the non-stop bashing of liberals. They do the Republicans job for them.

[Zoonart]

33. The other thing that bothers me is that Rachel

never once brought up the false equivalence. She never asked her guest to call for Trump's removal or to decry the possible seating of Roy Moore.
PATHETIC.

[ucrdem]

25. NYT: "Ms. Gillibrand, who has been endorsed by the National Rifle Association . . . "

This was in 2009, when then-NY governor David Paterson after considerable dithering and rumors of pay-to-play chose Gillibrand over Caroline Kennedy and gun-control activist Carolyn McCarthy to replace Hillary. Supposedly the reason was that Caroline said "um" too many times in an interview. Seemed to me at the time like classic NY cronyismt as Gillibrand's father was apparently a player in state politics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/nyregion/24senator.html

[jalan48]

27. Do the right thing?

A clumsy hug vs. defending a company that sells poison to our citizens? Maybe she's trying to upgrade her image as a fighter for the people.


Gillibrand's tenure at Davis Polk is best known for her work as a defense attorney for Philip Morris during major litigation, including both civil lawsuits and U.S. Justice Department criminal and civil racketeering probes.[15] She became a senior associate while working on Philip Morris litigation.-Wikipedia

[leftynyc]

32. My biggest fear

is that because we seem intent on lumping in all these behaviors (a boss exposing himself or expecting sex for a job) with putting an arm around someone and squeezing their waist during public picture taking is going to make employers throw up their hands and simply do all they can not to hire women.

[Polly Hennessey]

34. Dear NCTraveler,

Yes, women can be wrong quite often. Including you.

[Guilded Lilly]

35. To a broader consideration of the high road stance...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029940688