Let me try to frame the Franken situation in political terms.

[brooklynite]

The Democratic Party sees it as essential to attract more women to the Party.

15 Republican men in the VA legislative races were knocked out by women candidates.

A growing number of Democratic Federal and State candidates for 2018 are women.

To attract more women, the Party needs to be responsive to women's concerns.

Right now, a MAJOR concern of women is sexual assault/harassment/groping, etc. This rose to significance long before Roy Moore.

Democrats cannot claim support for women's issues and criticize Republicans if they're seen as acquiescing or supporting individuals who engage in inappropriate conduct.

When credible claims are raised (and consider that the Project Veritas claim was seen for the scam it was), their volume, severity and response have to be considered.

The first and last accusations were deemed credible (consider that, while Politico didn't release the name of the recent accuser, that doesn't mean they didn't identify her and validate their story).

ALL of the Democratic WOMEN Senators decided to act, both to support a new atmosphere of appropriate behavior in the Senate and lay the groundwork for attracting more women to the Party. Any Republican who supports Moore or acts inappropriately (or is discovered to have done so in the past) will be a target in 2018 (yes, it may not matter in 2018, but it probably does -- with a woman Democratic candidate -- in Arizona and New Mexico.

[Johonny]

1. Feels a lot like the ACORN take down of a few years ago

And the Dems are still paying for not fighting harder for ACORN.

[brooklynite]

3. The ACORN claim was false...

To one of my points, the accusations against Franken were deemed credible to the women of the Senate and to Leadership.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. so was the ACORN claim (deemed credible by Democrats)

they clearly do not possess the ability to tell shit from shinola.

[oberliner]

8. Franken apologized and said that he crossed a line

Have people not listened to his statements on this?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

9. Willful ignorance, IMHO. nt

[ProfessorPlum]

11. My reading of his statements were that he carefully

worded to them to show respect to the position that people were coming from - allowing them to draw their own lines about what is acceptable and what is not.

and then he called for an investigation of himself and the credibility of the accusations.

[oberliner]

16. Fair enough

Let's see what he says in an hour.

[Bengus81]

19. Here's his ENTIRE statement,not just a snippet............

"I've met tens of thousands of people and taken thousands of photographs, often in crowded and chaotic situations," the statement said. "I'm a warm person; I hug people. I've learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women -- and I know that any number is too many."

This accuser from yesterday claims he "crossed the line" as she put her arm around him for a photo.

[oberliner]

21. That's not his entire statement

Here's the entire statement:

"I’ve met tens of thousands of people and taken thousands of photographs, often in crowded and chaotic situations. I’m a warm person; I hug people. I’ve learned from recent stories that in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women — and I know that any number is too many. Some women have found my greetings or embraces for a hug or photo inappropriate, and I respect their feelings about that. I’ve thought a lot in recent days about how that could happen, and recognize that I need to be much more careful and sensitive in these situations. I feel terribly that I’ve made some women feel badly and for that I am so sorry, and I want to make sure that never happens again. And let me say again to Minnesotans that I’m sorry for putting them through this and I’m committed to regaining their trust."

[Bengus81]

43. Thanks for re-enforcing my point

He didn't just say "I crossed the line" as you stated in your first post.

[loyalsister]

58. My Democratic county clerk thought so

.

[Stuart G]

49. the accusations against Trump are also credible....NOW, TRUMP MUST RESIGN..!!!!!!!!!!

.........................use those 4 words....over, and over...and it will work....yes, it will take some time....

.................................but,.....these 2 words will become history.........'TRUMP RESIGNED"

[StevieM]

6. The destruction of ACORN was a real turning point in American history.

I expect future historians to remember it well. Or at least I hope they do. We are in big trouble if we are living in a future where they don't.

[BootinUp]

2. You can state it and restate it differently and its still a ridiculous proposition

to me, based on what we know.

[GeorgeGist]

4. I found none of them credible...

so there's that.

[tenderfoot]

7. I don't trust any of those Democratic Senators to push back against the GOP like Franken did

Not one of them.

This is not going to attract more women.

[bathroommonkey76]

13. You're right

Women aren't going to rush to the Dem party in droves b/c of Al Franken's resignation.

Notch one up for the anonymous victim's allegations fund.

Wonder which Dem candidate will have to resign b/c of alt-right inspired "charges".

[leftstreet]

10. Will these same Senators call for Trump to resign? n/t

[Bibluca]

12. Not entirely true

Can't agree that the Dems need to be more responsive to women's concerns than they already are, not for political purposes anyway. No woman who voted for Trump (and there were a lot of them) is going to be persuaded to vote for the next Dem candidate, based on anything pro-woman that the Party does now. If Trump's blatant misogyny didn't dissuade them, then nothing else will.

The better hope is that many men who voted for Trump will next time vote Dem, when given a choice they find more palatable. But adding to the perception that the right wing espouses, that the Dems favor the rights of women over those of men, is surely going to hurt.

Every Dem, both male and female, needs to shut up about Franken and let the chips fall.

And of course, Franken should answer every call to resign by saying: "I'll resign when Mr. Trump resigns."

[kcr]

14. I'm starting to see the explanation that this is an appeal to women voters more

Of all the explanations this is the worst. If that's the reason? They're really tone deaf. Yeah, there's nothing women love more than mob justice!

[Cosmocat]

15. JESUS H CHRIST

Dems lose the WAR every GD time when it is about identity politics ...

How many times do we have to learn this lesson.

[Bengus81]

17. Ok...a YEAR from now the Franken seat will be OWNED by a Republican

Who will take office in Jan..........


But Dems can stand tall and claim how they "took the high road" and LOSE yet another Senate vote. Meanwhile Republicans a YEAR LATER are STILL laughing about how EASY it all was.

[brooklynite]

22. So you're saying that ONLY Al Franken can win a Senate seat in a Blue State?

[mn9driver]

31. There are no Minnesota Democrats with Frankens name recognition.

And I can think of none that will do well in the rural areas. It will become a Minneapolis-St Paul vs outstate election. It won’t go well.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. I think Lori Swanson might have a chance.

She's done a lot of good work as AG for consumers, and she isn't identified so strongly as urban vs. rural. I hope she considers running.

[MoonRiver]

18. So Al Franken is the identified Sacrificial Lamb in the name of those goals?

Swell, but, if so, count me OUT. I won't support any of the Senators who railroaded this man before he received a DUE PROCESS ethics committee hearing. Some, I'm sure, plan to run in the 2020 primary. I will fight them tooth and nail. However, if one of them wins the primary I will absolutely vote for that person over the Repuke. But voting is ALL I will do.

[brooklynite]

24. He's not a sacrificial lamb; he's someone who got caught NOW at a time when this is an issue

[MoonRiver]

36. Caught, how?

Anonymous accusations do not amount to proof.

[brooklynite]

41. They he had no need to apologize.

But he did.

[Egnever]

60. That is complete horse shit

And frankly if you represent party thinking it is reprehensible.

His statements were all carefully worded to deny the allegations while still working to respect women's feelings without denigrating them.

He handled it with dignity and grace and for it he was condemned.

You and your clique on the other hand threw out any pretense of justice and went with mob rule instead in a weak transparent attempt to ride Metoo to electoral victory. It is completely transparent and quite possibly the death of any hope we had of fixing this mess you and your elite comrades have left us in with your triangulation and poll tested pablum.

In an attempt to hoodwink women with false outrage your cronies removed one of the most effective senators we have had in a while at standing up to the powers that be all for slogans and posturing.


You missed the mark widely here and your continued defense of this transparent form of politics is a glaring example of how you think slogans are better than actions. People are sick of it.

I am quite sure you and your pals will continue to try to win based on the "hey they are worse than us" model that has been clung to for decades now all the while sucking up to the corporations and big money donors. We see through it and today you have completely confirmed it is not about principles and rule of law it is about sloganeering and bandwagon jumping with little to no critical thought whatsoever.

All of this because a comedian took a photo during a raunchy USO tour.

These actions were a lame attempt to prove senate Dems had principles but all it really did was prove they have none.

Sadly the only one that acted like an adult is the guy being shoved out the door.

[JustAnotherGen]

20. Which women

Where is this magical population of women? Are they Republicans?

The Democratic Party sees it as essential to attract more women to the Party.


To attract more women, the Party needs to be responsive to women's concerns.

Right now, a MAJOR concern of women is sexual assault/harassment/groping, etc. This rose to significance long before Roy Moore


First - we won't attract Republican women. I have working for me a 29 year old born and raised in Morristown NJ who snidely sniggered about not being a 'womens libber'. She thought Ivanka was sooooo pretty and classy.

Republican women do NOT care if a man they perceive as a big strong daddy has harmed a woman. They are too competitive and too shallow and too selfish to care about any woman other than themselves. Prissy poos - every last one of them.

If you look at women Hunterdon Country Progressives, NJ 7 Action, etc. etc. we are far more concerned with losing our SALT deductions, the continued theft from NJ by Fed Gov and gifting to Red States, education, the Russian Investigation, etc. etc. This 'stuff' is a footnote. Hearth and Home first.

Please tell me, who over the bridge is feeding you this nonsense? I'm serious. You never respond to me although I'm CERTAIN we have been to at least ONE fundraiser together.

Even in one of the wealthiest counties in America - even here - we are more concerned with our property tax and mortgage interest deduction than this. I'm not even an hour drive away from you. Seriously. What is this magical bean the NYC Democratics are looking to plant?

We are SURROUNDED by 'Red' in Hunterdon County.

You are isolated in BLUE.

You. Are. Not. Going. To. Get. Republican. Women. To. Vote. For. Women's. Issues.

The weakness of the party in the tri-state area (lets say CT/NY/NJ/PA - for Philly) is too often the 'leaders' are in the larger cities and isolated from the Regressive Republicans.

You aren't in contact with people like Jack Cust, Lowell McAdam, etc. etc. - I am.

[Yavin4]

28. Predicition. Roy Moore will win the White women vote next week.

Guaranteed.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. I think your prediction

I spot on.

There's a 'prominent' Republican woman in my district who actually posted a picture of herself in a t-shirt like the one 'arrow down' one if you catch my drift.

She - a 10th generation New Jerseyan - says the Confederate Flag is 'heritage not hate'.

Kitchen table issues work - women's issues don't.

Give Republican women a chance for more money for groceries. They are kind of simpletons like that.

[mn9driver]

34. Yep. By double digits. This is not a winning strategy.

[R B Garr]

37. +1, Yeah, I just heard Corey Lewandowski on MSNBC referring to Franken as

a "soon-to-be-ex-Senator" who was "caught on video" abusing women. Moore was never caught on video, so of course, none of it is true about Moore. That is how these things are framed; they are NOT framed the way Gillibrand is attempting to do.

Gillibrand needs to take her own advice about women's issues. If she says Clinton should have left office, well then...her pictures with the Clintons' and acceptance of their endorsement for Hillary's seat are hypocritical. Hillary should take her Senate seat back.

[brooklynite]

42. other States in play in 2018 arent like Alabama.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. Name One

[brooklynite]

62. Arizona and New Mexico for two.

[agincourt]

59. Thank you!

one of the sanest,most realistic posts I've seen.

[woolldog]

23. Disgraceful that you're trying to defend this.

I'm just about done with the party after this.

[LAS14]

25. I'm a woman, and they aren't attracting support!!

Being female shouldn't mean being stupid!

[bagelsforbreakfast]

26. File this thread in the dick cavett cabinet drawer. Nm

[Yavin4]

27. in 2016, the Democrats ran the first ever female nominee of a major American politica party against

a man that bragged on tape about committing sexual assault, and lost the White women vote to him. Next week, I'll bet that they will lose the White women vote to Roy Moore.

[uponit7771]

30. +1, ... dems will then blame Al Franken for the loss!! We're screwed if all dems have to do to eat..

... their own is to follow group think like this crap

[uponit7771]

29. ITs 100% naive to think this false equivalency take down of a good dem will be a net good for dems !

[flamingdem]

33. BS! Please make a separation rape vs allegations of groping this is a hit job against Franken

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/tom-arnold-leeann-tweeden-was-coached-on-al-franken-sexual-assault-allegations/article/2642803

Tom Arnold: Leeann Tweeden was 'coached' on Al Franken sexual assault allegations

Actor and comedian Tom Arnold claimed that the woman who was first to accuse Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., of sexually assaulting her was "coached."

In a series of tweets Wednesday night, Arnold said that Los Angeles-based radio broadcaster Leeann Tweeden's allegations were the result of a political attack involving longtime Trump confidante Roger Stone.

"I’m disappointed with my friend Leeann Tweedon [sic]," he said. "Her partner at KABC John Phillips is a Roger Stone pal & they coached her for weeks to bring Al Franken down. I’d hoped she’d use her voice to speak out for all women again predators like Roy Moore & Donald Trump but she’s a birther."

John Phillips is a CNN political commentator and right-leaning radio talk show host at the same station, KABC, as Tweeden.

Phillips denied that he was involved with Tweeden's decision to come out public with her accusations in November.

"Hey Arnie, first of all your friend’s name is spelled 'Leeann Tweeden,'" he replied to Arnold. "Second, we never talked about it before she went public. Third, I think ur a great comic and were fantastic on #Roseanne, but @therealroseanne was the genius on that show."

[heaven05]

35. this whole Franken

mess.. is a lynch mob...guilty until proven innocent...it's all self-defeating. Sad and shameful.

[cilla4progress]

38. I hope Franken will call out

trump, mcconnell, Moore, Clarence Thomas, gop in his speech.

I hate this, yet believe it is the right call.

[EffieBlack]

39. But did they act in response to women on the ground or buckle to pressure from GOP and media?

Two very different things.

Not one woman I know is happy about Franken being pushed out.

[KPN]

40. Flaw in your entire argument: "Democrats cannot claim support for women's issues

and criticize Republicans if they're seen as acquiescing or supporting individuals who engage in inappropriate conduct."

Criticizing Republicans has no effect regardless!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. Republicans don't care. They want tax cuts, and they dupe voters

by talking about abortions and God and immigration. It's obvious that child-molestation isn't a deal-breaker for them, and I'm beginning to think that a candidate who was a confessed cannibal or serial killer wouldn't lose a lot of GOP votes if he waved the flag, pounded on a Bible and assured voters that no foreigners, minorities or Godless heathen abortion-seeking liberal women would get health care.

[RandomAccess]

44. While I appreciate your explanation,

I can tell you that they should've taken the temperature of women before jumping to conclusions. Not very many women were calling for Franken's resignation -- mostly those in the Senate who didn't look beyond their own political ambitions. AND they definitely should've honored Franken's request to go thru the Ethics Committee. There was a reason Franken called for that IMMEDIATELY, and I hope he explained it well enough to them today.

He's been gracious about this in his speech -- whereas I would be bitter and resentful and completely unable to hide it -- but I hope they all SUFFER because of this gross miscarriage of justice. I intend to fax each and every one of them to tell them what a terrible, unfair thing they've done.

[RandomAccess]

46. And another thing

Appealing to women does NOT require pandering to them, and what the party or any of its operators THINK will appeal to them may not be at all accurate. Women want honesty and integrity, fairness, justice and even-handedness. This was a gross miscalculation.

And I'm really, really sick of seeing and hearing Gillibrand's ridiculous "Enough is enough" and insisting (completely wrong-headedly) that it's the "wrong discussion" if you're comparing different types of inappropriate-to-criminal behavior. Mostly, it's the wrong damn QUESTION.

[George II]

45. The first accusation was NOT credible. How can two people find themselves "alone backstage"...

...just a few minutes before a traveling USO show? Ever been to one of them? It's impossible to be alone anywhere around the cast and crew of a USO show other than in the rest room.

That "kiss" was a blatant lie, I hope Ms. Tweedon spends the money she received for that lie wisely. She destroyed a good man's career.

[flotsam]

47. You said

"The first and last accusations were deemed credible (consider that, while Politico didn't release the name of the recent accuser, that doesn't mean they didn't identify her and validate their story). " Kindly tell me how anyone validated a story about two people alone in a room???

[Willie Pep]

48. I get where you are coming from.

But they should have had an ethics investigation. I think that would have been the best decision going forward.

[Vinca]

50. I can't wait to see what will happen when the first female politician is accused of misconduct.

Will the Dems look the other way because "it's essential to attract more women to the party?" Fair is fair. Trial first, sentence second.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Well, I sure hope this strategy works, because by railroading Franken out of his job

they lost a strong advocate for women (regardless of what he might allegedly have done - things that were not proved and not investigated) and pissed off a whole lot of people, including a lot of women.

[LanternWaste]

54. Difference of degrees, proportional response, context and nuance simply fail you.

Difference of degrees, proportional response, context, and nuance simply fail you in your consistent narrative.

[Demsrule86]

55. Oh right...for the greater good...you can destroy a decent Democrat...but how this helps is

beyond me...because now doing this makes Franken look guilty and feeds the 'they all do it narrative'...total rightwing bullshit...who will they attack next? Now, we can be the pure loser party ...so pure and so powerless....just great.

[110liberal]

56. brooklynite

so our new standard is we believe anonymous
sources and hear say evidence rather than due
process. This sounds like no we are not going to
campaign in Western PA and go after the blue
collar vote rather we are going to campaign in
the Philly suburbs and pick up 3 moderate republican
votes to every one vote we will get in Western PA
How did that strategy work out for you Chuck?

[earthside]

57. Too clever by half.

The establishment Democrats have saddled themselves with the 'Franken standard': If accused, you must be removed.

This won't win the 2018 elections for Democrats, this doesn't lend credibility to those who step forward with serious sexual harassment charges -- this says that reason, due process, an impartial hearing, appropriate punishment are all out the window for the sake of political expediency.

[brooklynite]

63. Let me touch that up for you...

'Franken standard': If accused multiple times by credible accusers, you must be removed.

BTW - when did Warren and Sanders and Harris become "Establishment Democrats"

[Denzil_DC]

65. "credible accusers" - Your special pleading is utterly transparent.

The cynicism of this move hasn't been lost on the many Democrats (a large proportion of them women) responding to Gillibrand on Twitter - it's gobsmackingly patronizing, as is your OP.

Twitter responses not good enough for you? Take a look around this board.

The Twitter responses I'm referring to are as credible as the anonymous accusers - though all of a sudden you have enormous faith in journalists from media outlets doing due diligence on the latest clickbait story that lands in their laps without any ulterior motives or agendas. I've done research into the background of a number of those posting them. That's probably a greater standard of proof than some of the allegations have been subject to.

[libtodeath]

64. Get back to me when the pukes have a supermajority and send womens and minorities rights back to

1800.

Let me know how great this surrender to lies and smears was then.