We have just publicly eviscerated one of our best. I have a question:

[Atticus]

Why in hell would anyone even arguably qualified now run for office as a Democrat?

We are, after all, the party that enthusiastically took the word of anonymous accusers over the word of Al Franken, a senator whose 10 year record is virtually without blemish. The accusations all had to do with some type of sexually inappropriate behavior which, curiously, always took place in public and, often, as he was posing for a photo with the alleged victim. But, accusations were all we required because we equated them with evidence of guilt and we cited them as authority for "drawing a line in the sand". And, we abandoned Al Franken on the other side of that hastily drawn line.

And, so, we---the party which criticizes our opponent for "political expediency" when they support a child molester for senator---now discard on of our own for the same reason.

Much, if not most, of what makes for a winning political campaign---or party---is intangible. We may speak of "voter appeal" or "charisma" or "momentum", but these are all variations on a theme: "How does it FEEL to vote for _________?" And, what Senator Gillibrand and others either don't know or don't care about is that, for many life-long Democrats, it doesn't FEEL good or right to support them today. Tomorrow doesn't look much better. What this will mean for midterms remains to be seen.

I'm not only not proud to be a Democrat today, I'm not sure I AM one any longer. This from the son of a union Democrat precinct committeeman and proud Democrat federal employee who earned his first dollar bill nailing up campaign signs for a Democratic congressional candidate.

We don't expect our leaders to be perfect, but we'd like to believe that most of the time most of them are fighting the good fight as we all are. Yesterday, most of them just decided to betray Al Franken and many of us. And, that hurts.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Amen.

I'm a Minnesota resident, so on top of all that they took my vote away from me. I'm absolutely furious and I'm not sure when - or if - I'll get over it.

[flamingdem]

4. Is anyone organizing a protest in Minn?

Franken isn't gone yet. I have fantasies of shutting things down there and showing him voter support

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. I think the protest will come at the ballot box

but I have no idea how that will turn out.

[Horizens]

2. Good Post

“Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the Ethics Committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits that I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.”

Senator Al Franken

The most important thing one possess is his/her name in good standing. He had every right to have an investigation and be heard. Not so with the new standards.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Maybe he should hire a private investigator once he's gone from the Senate

and at least have his name cleared. He had a right to that investigation and it's just shameful that his colleagues betrayed him the way they did and railroaded him out of his job.

[regnaD kciN]

30. How would that name-clearing take place?

Hire a P.I. to issue a report a few months from now saying the charges lacked merit? He'd long since be yesterday's news by then. It might merit a paragraph at the bottom of page 3 that no one will read. And, anyway, that would just be a single opinion by someone getting paid by him.

Sue the people making the allegations for slander? Since most of them are anonymous, how could he do that? Plus, the legal barriers to making that case are formidable, unless he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they all were organized by his opponents to fabricate and coordinate their testimony. Otherwise, it's merely a "he said, she said" -- which, when the "he" is the plaintiff, pretty much means automatic dismissal.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. An investigation might reveal whether any of the claims

were actually ratfcking by Roger Stone, James O'Keefe, etc. As to slander, etc., you don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt; that's the standard in criminal cases. In a civil case, which is what a defamation action would be, you need only a preponderance of the evidence - that is, that something is more likely than not to be true. Anyhow, the point isn't litigation. The point is presenting evidence to the public that shows he was unfairly accused. Maybe he could write another book.

[BootinUp]

3. We are all Charlie Brown now nt

[yurbud]

5. these are the kinds of decisions that are making people clamor for a new party

Just when the base is with them on this tax issue , they think it's a good time to throw one of their most articulate spokesmen under the bus based on anonymous allegations.

[LenaBaby61]

6. We have just publicly eviscerated one of our best. I have a question:

Why in hell would anyone even arguably qualified now run for office as a Democrat?
........

I'm not only not proud to be a Democrat today, I'm not sure I AM one any longer.

Same here as of January 2018 I too have extremely strong union ties in my family as well. But, I have to do what's right for me at this time, and divorcing myself from a weak, scared of thuglicans party IS right for me. It's sad that it's come to this, but it has.

[Red Pest]

7. How does one think about Senator Franken?

How should I (or anyone) think about Senator Al Franken (or anyone else who has been accused of sexual harassment)? It is a difficult thing. One must balance accusations with denials and truth with falsehoods.

That said, here are things that I have been remembering when thinking about charges of sexual harassment.

First, my adult daughter was raped in San Francisco about 4 years ago. She went to the hospital and had a rape kit performed. She called the police and they interviewed her. Then they told her that she wasn’t beaten up enough for them to pursue the case, unless she could get her rapist to confess over the phone with them listening. She tried and, of course, her attacker did not confess. The DNA evidence, the photographic evidence, the medical evidence, and her testimony did not matter. The police and the district attorney’s office were not going to pursue the case. The best that she could do, was band together with some other women who had been attacked by this piece of human excrement and hound him using social media until he moved away from the San Francisco Bay area. Great, the problem was just transferred to another city. My daughter suffers from PTSD and sees a therapist. Thank you for nothing, justice system.

Second, I personally know of three cases where men were falsely accused of sexual harassment. In one case, the “victim” never made a charge of sexual harassment, she was not sexually harassed in any way, but was angry about a perceived slight. Rather a powerful male administrative official changed the charge to sexual harassment. Once everyone was interviewed, it was clear that the administrative official was the problem. The second case involved a teacher at a private high school where the administration wanted to get rid of higher paid senior teachers, so they invented reasons to fire them. The school turned an emailed conversation about a novel into a one that had implied sexual connotations and used this to force the teacher out with a severance package. The third case involved a man accused by his niece of molestation. When the case went to court the evidence clearly demonstrated that this 16-year-old girl was trying to blackmail her uncle into buying her a new car and other items. A jury found him not guilty after a very short deliberation.

So, what have I learned by thinking about these events? Sexual assault is real, brutal, and traumatizing. Sexual harassment is real, too. I have encountered at least two overt cases. In one case I was able to intervene and stop it. However, sometimes a few people will make false accusations. Despite the false accusations, we have to do more to stop sexual harassment and assault. We must investigate the claims to determine their truth or falsity.

[fairfaxvadem]

29. Amen to this...

I, like you, have seen it all. Sister raped in home by a stranger, friends and colleagues harassed at work. I’ve had to make several complaints of my own, even just 2 years ago.

And, like you, I’ve seen the manipulative side of this. Stuff I’ve called BS on right away.

I 100% agree we need to have a fair process to investigate these claims, whether it’s sexual harassment, sexual assault, or any other form of intimidation or creating a hostile environment. I quit a job many years ago because of the verbal abuse I received daily. Nothing sexual about it at all. He is still one of the biggest a-holes I’ve ever met. After 30 years of working, it’s clear that some people get away with all sorts of terrible behavior. That’s also the last time I worked at a small business where the owner had no structure for his employees. An independent HR Dept was a must after that.

[vi5]

8. It depresses me, but this is finally seeming to sink in to many on here.

I've never wavered on being a Democrat. Not since I was an elementary school kid who wrote to President Jimmy Carter and got my form letter back from him. I've been a card carrying, primary voting Democrat since 1984. I've defended and fought, and donated and canvassed and stuffed envelopes and drove people to the polls and all of it. But each year since Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate, and then didn't fight the recount I've felt a little bit of my Democratic soul slip away with each passing event. Sure there have been things like Obama's election that have given me twinges of hope. But for every one of those there was an Iraq War vote....a Patriot act vote....an "impeachment is off the table", a bank bailout, a failure to support unions, an Arne Duncan, .....I don't know...too much to mention.

I didn't even really wade too deep into taking sides in the 2016 primary although I had my issues with how it was handled. But trying to take any kind of sensible approach to any of it was too often met with wailing, cries from too many sides.

To me, Franken was the last of a kind. An old school, unapologetic liberal Democrat. Sure he had his flaws and supported some things I disagreed on. But I feel like what happened to him here is a symbolic final purge of the last vestiges of classic Democratic party liberal.

[Atticus]

16. What you and I and people like us decide to do with our passion, our energy, our dollars and our

----I'm gonna say it--- common sense will determine the course of the Democratic Party.

[vi5]

43. I keep thinking that....

....Myself and many others like me have slowly become less and less active financially and time-wise in the party itself. We focus on individual candidates and individual causes. And I think that maybe, just maybe it will send a message but it never does. We all still always vote for the Democratic candidate without fail in every election. But then i still see the constant overarching message that is some variation on how compromise, and centrism, and "taking the high road" can never fail it can only be failed by people like me.

This Franken thing is just a major nail in the coffin for me. And I'm not even someone who is saying "FRANKEN DID NOTHING WRONG!!!!" or saying that we shouldn't believe all of his accusers. I was fairly critical of him at first and I still think he's shown poor judgment. But ultimately what this is, is the Democratic party establishment and unfortunately a number of people who are looking out for their own 2020 goals (Booker, Gillibrand, Harris) sacrificing Al Franken on the alter of faux bipartisanship and moral high ground. And it stinks and I'm done with it.

[Willie Pep]

9. If I was a Democratic politician I would be thinking that I cannot trust my colleagues.

If I had accusations against me and decided to fight them because I felt they were untrue or exaggerated I would know that few if any of my party comrades would have my back because they were looking out for their own skins.

[greeny2323]

12. Amen!

Franken was one of the best Democrats in the last 100 years. Now the warmed over conservadems have more power.

[Paladin]

13. I've avoided the attraction of a third party, up until now.

With the hatchet job that Democrats did on Al Franken, I'm ready to walk away from the party. I'd feel different about it if I had any hope whatsoever of Democrats mobilizing against Roy Moore and trump and Bannon and all of the other alt-right trash that are destroying this country. But I don't think the Democratic Party has the requisite fire in its gut, the sense of overwhelming outrage, that is needed to save our nation from the Stupid People---by any means necessary. So I'm beginning the process of looking around.

[Mme. Defarge]

15. Moi aussi.

Me too.

[Mme. Defarge]

14. What next?

Casting lots for his clothes?

[bhikkhu]

17. I've thought a lot about this...

I'm male, but I when I was younger my best friend, a girl, was raped. My ex-wife was raped and abused when she was younger, and our daughter was raped. Its a subject that tears at my soul, you might say, so there is no way I can take it lightly.

Franken is not accused of rape, but of general disrespect and "gropyness". Given his excellent record on the issues, my thoughts were that he had a good standing to explain his actions, and to take a solid stand on the issues going forward. He could make himself a great force for good, and declare himself well on the right side. If he had to admit that he needed to change, to learn to be more respectful, that's what most people need as well; it would be good to hear someone in power say it. If he were "the guy for us", I knew that he was eloquent, smart and good-intentioned enough to do just that.

Today he had the opportunity, and he did the opposite. An innocent person doesn't fold up and leave the stage. A strong person doesn't declare his innocence and then fold up and leave. I'm not saying good riddance - but he has moved on, having decided he was not up to the task. It was his decision, regardless of the great volumes of blame cast around.

[Atticus]

18. I'm sure that's a comforting way to deal with this. nt

[bhikkhu]

19. I'm sure I don't give a shit about comfort. nt

[regnaD kciN]

32. That is absolutely crazy...

So, because he got thrown under the bus by his entire party leadership, his bowing to their demands and resigning "proves" his guilt? Great "reasoning"...I'm sure the Republicans will be repeating your mantra forever.

[bhikkhu]

35. What anyone else did makes no difference to me

I have no idea what "thrown under the bus by his entire party leadership" is supposed to mean, to an individual person. What I look at is how he responds to the allegations made. I'm not a constituent, but if I were that's what would be important to me. His response is to fold up and leave. If I were a constituent I'd say - I still have my principles and what is important to me is still important to me, and I have to find someone else to represent them.

I think there was an opportunity for him to stand up, and he opted out. That's fine. Perhaps I would do the same. But I wouldn't throw blame all around; I don't expect him to, and I don't think there is anything to gain by it.

[OhioBlue]

20. We (Dems) need a rapid response/PR/Investigative team.

Franken handled the accusations wrong from the beginning, in hindsight. At the time, it seemed like the right response because of all the allegations being dropped and assholes like Moore flatly denying and attacking the women. So Al, trying to do the "right" thing, completely avoided anything that could be seen as an attack against Tweeden. He apologized to her, said he remembered it differently and volunteered for an Ethics investigation. I am guessing he was confident that the truth would reveal itself with an investigation that it was a sophomoric and stupid pic, but nothing like she claimed. He wasn't even touching her flack jacket and the atmosphere created by all parties during the tour was one where stupid and sophomoric pranks happened in a joking manner.

The group of accusations that amount to a hand landing in a place where the women felt uncomfortable while putting their arms around each other and posing for pictures in public definitely should have been looked at differently than #metoo instances. A pat on the butt isn't something to ruin one's life over or remove a liberal giant from advocating for those that most need his voice in the Senate.

Today, I witnessed someone touching another person's butt and had someone touch my boob. In the first instance, an older lady was seated and a younger lady walked over to greet her. They were both smiling, exchanged hellos, the younger lady bent down to give the older lady a hug. After the hug, the older lady patted the younger's behind 3 times. I watched this innocent exchange of affections, which was completely non-sexual and anyone who witnessed it would have though the same. Retelling the story, and choosing certain words could have made it seem like groping, which it absolutely was not. In the latter instance, I was standing behind a seated co-worker who was busy. Her phone was ringing and I leaned over to answer it for her just as she swiveled her chair to grab the phone and her hand hit my boob. Completely innocent. It struck me how both instances could have been spun into something like Franken allegations.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. Brought down by a woman

who wouldn't let her husband hold her by the waist in public.

[Initech]

22. Why would anyone run for office period, for that matter?

The GOP have successfully weaponized the #MeToo movement. All they have to do is pay a few witnesses, doctor up a few photographs, and they can smear anyone and anything. Who needs debate?

[agincourt]

33. things got really lost during the California recall

you had Arnold the gropenator running for governor and he won in a blue state. No one from the GOP even thought of asking him to quit. An extremely weak party.

[brooklynite]

23. Would you like to see my list of Democratic candidates lined up to run in 2018?

But I'm sure you know better.

[Atticus]

25. I don't claim to "know better", but I do have an opinion. Best of luck go your folks. nt

[brooklynite]

26. Your opinion would appear to be inconsistent with the facts

I list more than 200 Democrats running for the competitive House seats (not including Dem incumbents) an 15 candidates for the Senate races.

[Atticus]

27. Best of luck to your folks. nt

[rufus dog]

24. You are missing the point

They only want a certain type of Democrat to run for office. You know, the type that puts up a bit of a fight, but doesn't upset the corporate masters too much. The DiFi's and Shumers of the world, the Bookers and Gilibrands, but those who step off the reservation, they must go.

[CentralMass]

40. You nailed it.

[G_j]

41. Unfortunately

this is the unblemished truth

[True Dough]

28. I remember

a recent Democrat who served two full terms in the highest office in the land. Not ONE sexual harassment or sexual assault scandal. No woman came forward with any such accusations against him. He proved to be one of the best leaders we've ever seen. That's where the bar should be set and we should always strive to reach it.

[Denzil_DC]

36. You're kidding?

I recall some very persistent rumors (nowadays they might be called allegations) of Obama being overly physically familiar with his daughters, of having a string of gay affairs in Chicago and being implicated in at least one murder as part of a cover-up (Kevin DuJan at HillBizz almost made a career out of those and other wild tales) ... I could go on if I wanted to disturb myself by revisiting some of the darker crap that got thrown around.

They didn't gain traction beyond the fringe. Maybe somebody's learning from experience.

[True Dough]

37. I guess it depends what you put stock in

You can find rumors, innuendo and conspiracies about almost anyone. Always consider the source.

[Denzil_DC]

38. I think folks here have been doing a whole lot of that this last couple of weeks.

But in a different climate with more skilled operatives as adversaries, Obama could have been in trouble. Like I said, maybe somebody's learned something.

Of course, there were other issues concerning him that the Repubs could use to rally their base and keep Dems fighting with each other.

[Tatiana]

34. He is the last of a dying breed - A true Wellstone Democrat.

Do we have any other Senators of this stature in the Senate? He really was beginning to become our new Lion of the Senate.

And the arrogance of members of our own party combined with the right-wing dirty tricks took him down.

He cared too much about this country and about the ongoing investigations to allow himself to become a distraction. He is also deeply hurt by the betrayal of his colleagues.

I have fired off emails to my own cowardly Senators Durbin and (I hate to say) Duckworth.

This will backfire on them (and unfortunately) us. Franken was one of the few Senators connecting the dots in the Russia investigation. We will now have to look to Schiff in the House who is being thwarted at every turn by Nunes and the other Rethugs.

[R B Garr]

39. He is a huge loss. This is very demoralizing

and self-defeating. Elections don’t matter. How dare the will of the voters in Minnesota be overturned because of what amounts to some cheap gossip. Those were barely even “allegations” — just cheap gossip. This is insane. What a stupid stupid thing to do,

[Leighbythesea]

42. The crushing disappointment

Is terrible. Its the apathy that followed , for me, thats most disturbing. I want to care. But you are right, it FEELS like I am not being represented.