The most well written and fully fleshed out article on the Franken mess.

[blimablam]

Al Franken resigned (sort of) from the U.S. Senate today. His shocking demise came about as a result of accusations against him, about which I have written extensively and of which, despite having no affinity for Franken, I am more suspect than ever, especially after his emotional speech on the Senate floor.

There are so many significant and mind-blowing aspects of Franken’s political death that there needs to be a list created for the historical record. Here is my attempt to do that:

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/the-most-mind-blowing-aspects-of-al-frankens-demise/

[SHRED]

1. Thank you

[Mme. Defarge]

2. K&R!

[msongs]

3. you said...flesh. nt

[jalan48]

4. Yep.

"In my view, Al Franken is a mostly, if not totally, an innocent man who was railroaded because of a perfect storm of circumstances which included a hysterical media environment, his own naïveté, and his own party’s thirst to use his destruction for their political gain."

[KT2000]

5. that's how I see it.

this is the McMartin preschool all over again.

[DFW]

6. It is my (probably in vain) hope

That IF Moore wins (by whatever machinations are pulled) that Alabama Senate race, and is seated without a word of comment from Republican Senators, that Al Franken rescinds his decision to resign. He should take this action pointing out that the seating of Moore is an incontrovertible sign that nothing he did or was accused of is anything close to that which constitutes inappropriate behavior by Senate ethics standards as just proved by the majority's silent acceptance of Moore to their ranks.

[MiltonBrown]

7. Let's hope so!

[mountain grammy]

13. Yes! I'd be good with that.

[mn9driver]

29. That seems unlikely. He has essentially been kicked out of the Senate club by his fellow members.

And yes, Moore is quite likely to win. And likely to be seated with no real fuss and no investigation. Senate democrats will issue some strong statements of objection and demand that he be expelled. They will be ignored by the Republicans.

And on election day 2018 we will find out if sacrificing Franken on the altar of zero tolerance was worth it.

[DFW]

80. Nothing to find out

I am already quite convinced it was not worth it. Franken's trangressions seem to mostly be made of the same fabric as the Emperor's new clothes.

[Lifelong Protester]

76. I agree with you!

Moral "high ground" my foot!

[onit2day]

83. I want Senators to explain themselves

Why did they jump on the bandwagon without investigating for themselves?

[smirkymonkey]

8. K&R

Thanks for posting!

[XRubicon]

9. Thank you.

[Drahthaardogs]

10. FACTs. Where are all the "but they were credible"

defenders. I want to see them refute actual FACTS. Not innuendo, not anonymous reports, but FACTS.

Yes, a woman has a right to not be groped, but the accused has the right to be judged by FACTs not arbitrary zero tolerance bullshit

[GaryCnf]

11. I think a fellow member confirmed at least part of this conclusion

Here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029941416

Al Franken was sacrificed on the altar of "We can win elections by showing white women in the suburbs how much we care about them"

We can't. Women are not like people of color (black or brown). Their lives are not joined under a common yoke of oppression. They are not politically united by their gender. If they were, 90% of women would vote Democratic instead of a majority voting for Republicans. It has been a fool's errand to try.

[PDittie]

12. +1

[KPN]

33. +1!!!!

That's exactly what my wife says.

[whathehell]

53. Not so fast..If women aren't "politically united by their gender" if they're not

."joined under a common yoke of oppression" what do you make of

the #MeToo campaign and the post -Trump innaugeral Women's

March, which was the LARGEST protest march in American

History?

[GaryCnf]

57. What I "make of it"

Is that less than half of the class of women, the minority of that class who actually voted against the most reprehensible candidate in history, spoke out.

That doesn't show that women as a class suffer the kind of oppression that unifies a class as a whole.

[whathehell]

62. Yes. but only if you don't find my "wording" too questionable, lol

I might have guessed: You arbitrarily dismiss my points as 'not enough" and then simply repeat yourself...Next.

[GaryCnf]

66. It has ZERO to do with your wording

and EVERYTHING to do with your content.

There are wonderful women on our side, as well as wonderful men. The fact remains that when 10 women go to the polls, the Democratic candidate falls another vote behind (and it's even worse when you don't include the black women who, judging by the relatively small gender gap between black men and black women, are voting primarily based upon issues deriving from their race, as opposed to their gender). When 10 black voters go to the polls, the Democratic candidate gets 8 votes further ahead. THAT is what happens when a constituency is oppressed by the other side.

Since 1992, our campaigns have targeted women, sometimes even to the point of victimizing black people and other constituencies fiercely loyal to the Democratic Party, because the political "geniuses" who have been in charge of all but two of those campaigns -- the two where we actually won BOTH a decisive majority in the Electoral College AND a simple majority of the popular vote -- have convinced folks that women (and particularly white suburban women) are NECESSARY for us to win AND that women have a commonality interests so that it is actually possible to get them to vote Democratic by a sufficiently large margin to offset the even more clearly "lost cause" that is white men. Both of those are bullshit and the last 25 years proves it. We have done EVERYTHING possible to fulfill that pipedream, up to and including preparing and running an astoundingly qualified female, and STILL we can't even get a majority of the women demographic to vote Democratic on a national level.

The suggestion that the Women's March's, and even more so, the #MeToo movement (which has been mangled into a tool for our enemies), shows anything more than that our minority share of the women's vote is fired up because Trump is so bad (a great thing, no doubt) ignores the fact that, even after 25 years of directly targeting women voters with our campaigns and our policies, a majority of the class of women STILL voted for Trump.

Now, our party leadership has the gall to say that canning Franken will "finally" make a difference, that "now" women will see what we stand for, that ending the political career of a man for touching women on the posterior over who he had no power whatsoever will change the minds of women voters who voted for Trump?

Please.

[NewJeffCT]

70. where are you getting your statistics?

women as a group voted for Clinton by 12 points better than Trump. White women as a group voted from Trump. However, for the first time, white women with college degrees voted for the Democratic candidate, Clinton. Women of color voted overwhelmingly for Clinton, which is why she won the women's vote overall.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/

[GaryCnf]

74. As you note

White women, even when including white women with college degrees, voted for the most reprehensible example of male arrogance/control in history.

While adding black women (who voted overwhelmingly for Clinton) to that total changes the overall percentage of women who voted for Clinton, the relatively small gender gap between black women and black men (who also voted overwhelmingly for Clinton) indicates that black women's votes were based upon racially-derived interests as opposed to gender-derived interests.

Do you disagree? I ask because we are using the same numbers.

[whathehell]

89. Is that why you put "make of" in quotes, lol?

Sure, but we'll forget that for the moment.

Your argument fails on a couple of counts, but mainly because you base it on only ONE election, the last, which many believe was an anomaly.
You first claim the party''s strategy for getting votes has been about "getting the white suburban women" vote since '92 and then
characterize that as a "mistake" when in fact, those 'white suburban women" came through pretty well for Bill Clinton as they did the following election..
The fact is, White women surpass White men as Democratic voters in EVERY election and, no, the discrepancy between male and females in populations of color is not terribly different: Stats say
White women overall, voted 51 percent for Hillary -- ten points higher than White men. Thirteen percent of Black men voted for Trump, contrasted to six percent of Black women -- 7 points higher.

The only election where your argument MIGHT hold some sway
is in the LAST one which was so full of the "irregularites" one might expect from a foreign power's meddling, that it's STILL investigating it, so as yet, no long term 'truth" demographic or
"otherwise, can be gleaned from it.

I think the Dems made a mistake with Franken -- They went overboard...I myself called his office and urged him not to resign. That said, it's absurd, at this point, to simply dismiss the idea that women, including those of the white suburban persuasion, are important to the party.

[GaryCnf]

92. Those are extremely fair points

Well, maybe not the title but whom among us hasn't resorted to at least a little snark?

I have a huge weekend with a deadline coming up, but I would really appreciate talking about this with someone who understands as much as you clearly do.

It may take a while, but if you don't mind I would appreciate the chance to get back to you later.

[whathehell]

93. Thank you, Gary..

It's a pleasant, and somewhat rare occurrence here, especially
when passions are running high, to receive such a reasonable, non-contentious response.
I actually avoided DU last night, because I saw I received responses to my posts, and just wasn't up for any kind
argument, so thanks again for defying my expectations.

So do what you need to do this weekend -- I look forward to our future conversations.

[GaryCnf]

94. When I read your post

and the other reply just before it, I realized that I have to work on talking about what I believe instead of springing into a defensive (and reactionary) posture.

My original post came dangerously close to saying that Democratic women voters don't count, which is not just offensive, it's stupid.

What I was trying to get across was that there are a set of issues which motivate almost all of us in the black community. What's more, they are a set of issues which are uniquely "black." This is not to say SOME white Democratic voters don't share our view on those issues, they do. It's only to say that those issues dominate us as a political community because they are literally matters of survival. When we don't hear Democratic politicians talking about them, we don't think "Well, they care about preserving the ACA" or "They are standing up against a sexual predator like Trump" and "We know they're better than the Republican" and get fired up about going through the extra hassles many of us have to go through in order to vote. When we hear (and I've even heard it here) "It's a binary election, your pet issues aren't as important as winning, do your duty" we go "whatever" and stay home.

What I really meant to say about the women vote is that there is no similar set of issues which unifies women. We will never get 90%+ of the women's vote. On the other hand, and I think this is what I did not get across, there is undoubtedly a segment of women (a segment significantly larger than the segment of white people as a whole who are just decent people upon who we can count in every election) who do vote 90%+ Democratic and that segment needs to be identified and spoken to JUST LIKE we should be speaking to black Democratic voters in every election. (Aside, I am near ecstatic over the way the Jones campaign changed course at the last minute and reached out to black voters in a way that we did not see in 2016, 2004, 2000, 1996 and 1992. I went to Montgomery to help with interest for Jones in the black community a little over a month ago and then the start of last week and the change was amazing. What happened yesterday in terms of turnout brought tears to an old man's eyes.)


I thank you for your response.

[whathehell]

95. Can I just say..

Last edited Wed Dec 13, 2017, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

that I think you're wonderful?.... I don't want to get all maudlin
about it, but, like you, I am SO happy about the
Alabama win last night, that, after reading your wonderfully open,
non-defensive post, my emotional cup is in danger of running over.

Right now, I'm sitting in a Holiday Inn in Albuquerque, waiting on a cup of coffee, getting ready to pack and go home to Chicago, so I'm afraid I'm in a similar position to you the other day, in that I don't have the time to respond to your very thoughtful post in the manner it deserves. That said, I'd like to "table" this, if you will, until I have the time -- maybe tonight or tomorrow - to do just that.....Congrats to all of us on the great win in Alabama but especially to people like you who actually went there to help in the effort.
Talk to you soon, Gary.

[happy feet]

59. +1000

[byronius]

14. Well written.

[oberliner]

15. This is an article by a right-wing talk show host

What the hell is happening?!?

[OilemFirchen]

17. Does that embarrass you?

It probably should.

[oberliner]

19. It's sad that DUers are posting crap from right-wing lunatics and folks are responding favorably

Very disturbing.

[Leith]

25. Ziegler Is Not the Reichwing Lunatic

He has written other articles recently that can be summed up with "WTF is going on?!"

He's more like Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace than a brainless trumpanzee.

And he's certainly not trolling.

[oberliner]

35. He is absolutely a right-wing lunatic who believes Jerry Sandusky is innocent

And that Joe Paterno was framed.

Among other insanity.

[Nevernose]

38. Frankens accuser believes Obama is a Kenyan Muslim

Franken’s first accuser believes Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. Another claimed that Al Franken did NOT kiss her but secretly wanted to.

Among other insanity.

[oberliner]

40. I would hope no one would post an op-ed by her either

Ziegler is known for defending child molesters and their enablers (Sandusky/Paterno) and not believing women who say they were sexually harassed/raped (McGowan).

[Denzil_DC]

42. Franken's accusers apparently have no problems with Moore or Trump.

Your point is?

[kcr]

46. You'd also hope they wouldn't believe her railroading schemes and help take down a Dem Senator.

But, here we are!

[califootman]

27. Well...

When a right wing talk show host pens an article that basically says, "Whoa! Dick move, bro." to the Democratic establishment for their handling of the Franken situation, we should all be concerned.

[oberliner]

36. He is a crazy right-wing nut job

Nothing he says should be taken seriously (or posted here).

[blimablam]

47. Why?

[WyLoochka]

50. It rings true - that's what is disturbing

Makes it even more disturbing that the tale this notorious right winger, Zeigler, tells of the attack on Franken, started by one of his right wing friends -Tweeden - was then adopted and promulgated by Franken's own colleagues in the Senate.

Adopted and worked into an hysteria that resulted in a destructive, frenzied mob of Democratic Senators calling out all across the country for the head of what I will, now and always, regard as an innocent colleague. If one does not want to create a victim, you will allow time for truth to be found and justice based on that truth to be rendered. Wasn't allowed to happen.

The process of justice was deliberately blocked. It was denigrated by Gillibrand, she said it wouldn't give us what we are looking for. The process of justice would be inadequate to the task, she said. The task of what we need to ask. Whatever the end goal, the miscalculation and superficiality of Gillibrand etal resulted in a travesty. Victim created - Al Franken. That was unnecessary. That was shameful. That was disturbing.

To have witnessed Gillibrand demanding that we deliberately dump ordinary social interactions involved with ordinary photo taking into the ugly bubbling stew pot of abuse and harassment and demand that we call it all the same, was disturbing.

To hear her trash some of our finest God given capabilities as humans, to discern differences - was disturbing. To hear her demand that we not use these abilities to find truth, was disturbing.

To have watched in horror as the mob gathered and raced recklessly to make posts online that heaped public shame on, and called for the head of a person who has shown himself to be far more decent and far more dignified than all of those mob members put together, was disturbing.

Doesn't matter who shares in the telling of this disturbing story of a destructive run amok mob action. It's true and the ring leaders like Gillibrand and Harris, and weak followers like Schumer, will go down in history in ignominy.

[LanternWaste]

63. Try to make the distinction between message and messenger.

Try to make the distinction between message and messenger. It's 'very disturbing' that you are unwilling or unable to do so.

[whathehell]

55. Um, does it embarrass You?

It probably should.

[OilemFirchen]

65. No.

Why should it? I agree with the author of the article and am not so obsessed with confirmation bias that it clouds my judgement.

[whathehell]

90. I'd say the same

applies to Oberliner. Have a nice day

[SHRED]

51. Yeah

It's sick when a RW nut is ahead of our party leaders on this.

[ismnotwasm]

68. Buncha shite is what.

The article mentions the first accuser was a nude model in the first few sentences. I’m not reading it. And I have read very good analysis and opinions regarding the entire situation.

[blimablam]

84. It was her profession you can't ignore it any more than you can ignore that Franken was a comedian

Your bias is giving it a negative aspect

[dlk]

16. This Was a Hit Job From the Beginning

[Towlie]

18. It might say what you want to hear but it's certainly not well-written.

You can get away with writing anything you like by prefacing it with "It was never reported that...", or alternately, "The media ... never even mentioned that..." But as they say on Wikipedia, "citation needed."

When you phrase your assertions that way you're not actually claiming that those things are true, just that they were not reported. For example, did you know it was never reported that John F. Kennedy returned to Earth in a UFO with a fabulous new diet?

I'd like to believe Al Franken is innocent. Maybe he is. But this article is nothing but a Gish Gallop.

[oberliner]

20. It is written by a right-wing hack talk show host

I can't believe this crap is allowed to be posted here. It's unquestionably from a right-wing source (Ziegler).

[kcr]

45. Read that definition again, please. Then explain to me how an article can be a Gish Gallop.

[whathehell]

56. Yes, many here seem eager to jump on the "Women don't Matter" meme

because they're pissed about Franken

I'm a woman who is pissed about Franken, but this RWinger's contentions are weak and simplistic.

[Honeycombe8]

21. Best article I've read on the matter. EXCELLENT!

Just one point of argument. It says no Republican called for Franken to resign. That's true, but McConnell finally said he thought Franken should resign.

[oberliner]

22. This article is by a person who believes Clinton is responsible for 9/11

And made a movie about it.

[Denzil_DC]

39. At least one of Franken's accusers is a birther and a Republican,

and a great friend of Trump Jr for years to boot, but you had no problem with her credibility.

[mn9driver]

23. Yes. Franken was railroaded and stabbed in the back by his supposed colleagues.

The decision to throw Franken under the bus was made by party leadership. The media played a big role in giving them cover by reporting every accusation with only the context that would make it look as credible as possible, when in fact there was no supporting evidence and a significant amount of doubt with all of these allegations.

The DLC and Franken's fellow Senators are going to have to answer next fall when it becomes apparent on election night that their big strategy to get Republican women to vote D en masse has backfired. I plan on spending election day 2018 with a good book by a cozy fire and a nice big cup of I fucking told you so.

[GaryCnf]

34. It has backfired in every election

Beginning in 1992. The only times we got a popular majority since 92 was when Obama kept the suburbia-obsessed "geniuses" at bay and went after real Democratic constituencies.

[RandomAccess]

24. Another excellent column by the same author on the same subject

Facts, nuance should matter more in Al Franken rush to judgement
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/30/al-franken-scandal-slow-down-sexual-assault-accusations-john-ziegler-column/886722001/

Especially the first half or so. He goes off the rails a bit on complaining she didn't come forward when he first ran for the Senate, and so forth in the second, but it's still an excellent piece.

[philly lib]

26. Long-time reader, first member post:YES!

I could not agree more that the admirable desire to expose the obscenity of sexual harassment (by REAL offenders like the Orange Menace and the Alabama Mall-lurker) appears to have been driven off onto the track of "the goal of perfection is the enemy of the good" in the case of how Al Franken has been treated in the last few days. I have been glued to this community's reaction to this totally counter-productive response (by cagey Rs and purist Ds) for both the Democratic party AND the country/world at large.
Why am I finally posting now? I have been receiving intellectual/political nourishment from this community since the (Shrub) Bush years and have often wanted to take this plunge. The series of Franken postings has finally gotten me to do it (I know, what about the last @#$* year? Mostly fear of getting caught up in never-ending venting stopped me till now.) The complexities of this moment require all of us to be engaged.
For context: I cast my first vote in 1968 for Eugene McCarthy for his anti-war commitment and my politics have been informed by that mistake ever since - I helped to elect Tricky Dick. NOW I am a retired (female) college/med school biology teacher & researcher living in the bluest of cities with a marvelous local comfort zone and pursuing my life-long goal of a second career as an artist.
Keep informing me and the world at large through this unique site.

[orleans]

37. welcome aboard

glad you finally decided to post

[StevieM]

44. Welcome to DU!! I hope you will post with us some more. (eom)

[underpants]

28. Marking

Thanks

[Jimbo101]

30. Excellent Summation - Thanks!

[mr_liberal]

31. excellent article. +1. nm

[oberliner]

32. This is written by John Ziegler - has everyone gone insane?!

Do you know who this person is and what he stands for?

[Denzil_DC]

41. We can judge Ziegler by what he's written on this subject.

Ad hominem is the sign of a weak argument. So is questioning the sanity of "everyone".

Ziegler's not the only RWer/never-Trumper to object to the whole Franken saga (John Schindler, Rick Wilson etc.) - some of these people know the Republicans' methods only too well, and they also know the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[Jimbo101]

43. Thanks for pointing out that Ziegler is a RW whack job,..

But this article is extremely lucid in chronicling what just happened over the last few weeks.

Franken wasn't the only one that got run over by the Roger Stone Express - we all were.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. I've been reading your crap on this subject for two weeks.

[whathehell]

54. Many are angry about Franken & eager to grab onto the "Women don't matter"

meme, it seems.

[keroro gunsou]

60. it's the bazooka joe theorem

"even a broken clock is still right at least twice a day."

[blimablam]

48. Franken is being defended by many people from all spectrums of the political world

Why are some voices of reason allowed and others not?

[oberliner]

58. John Ziegler is not a voice of reason - he is an apologist for child molesters

"Ziegler steadfastly maintains that Sandusky was a "chaste pedophile" and committed no sexual acts with his victims"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ziegler_(talk_show_host)#Jerry_Sandusky_child_sex_abuse_scandal_documentary

[blimablam]

61. Again point out exactly what is wrong with his argument?

[ismnotwasm]

69. Personally I dont listen to people who defend child molesters.

If I want my opinion backed up—I will try to find a source from a decent human being.

[JI7]

52. Leeann Tweeden is the Right Wing Radio Host who is a Birther and friends with Don JR

[CrispyQ]

64. Excellent commentary. Thank you for posting.

Earlier this year, Franken’s questioning of now Attorney General Jeff Sessions appeared to expose Sessions to charges of perjury with regard to his Russia contacts. There was a time when it looked for sure that Sessions would be forced out and Franken was poised to be a major contender for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination. Who knew that taking super tight photos years ago with women who asked you to do so (and smiled widely while it happened) was a “crime” greater than lying to Congress in a way consistent with the cover-up of election collusion with Russia?!

[ismnotwasm]

67. Sorry didnt read past nude model

Unless that was what you meant by fully fleshed.

[blimablam]

72. You should

[ismnotwasm]

78. No I shouldnt

When a women profession or appearance is brought up as a negative talking point in ANY discussion of sexual harassment, it nulls the rest of the conversation because a false premise has been set with painful historical examples.

There are a number of articles on this topic of Franken out there that manage not to be sexist and not written by Moore apologists.

[blimablam]

81. Your loss. It's was her profession just like Franken a was a comedian

Can't ignore it.

[ismnotwasm]

87. Sigh.

[workinclasszero]

71. It was a right wing republican takedown, aided and abetted by a democratic kangaroo court

"Meanwhile, after using search and destroy tactics to survive actual campaigns, Donald Trump is the president of the United States, and it appears Roy Moore might be soon joining the body from which Franken is resigning."

[LostinRed]

73. Nice post

As soon as I read Roger Stone tweeted the night before the first accuser made her allegations this was all bullshit. This is a sad day for democracy

[spooky3]

75. Agree, though some of his comments on Tweeden seem

Close to slut-shaming. The more relevant issue re her photo and kiss claims is that the tone of the event was sexualized and that participants knew this in advance. That opens the door for there to be some behavior we would find objectionable in the workplace or for people to have different ideas about where the boundaries are. It is wrong to get outraged when someone does NOT persist in doing things repeatedly one you’ve told him or her that something crosses YOUR definition of the boundary.

[brewens]

77. Al's a liberal. That makes him a bad guy, even to some that are supposed to be on our side. n/t

[marybourg]

79. " I am more suspect"? nt

[Faux pas]

82. "Nevertheless, today I am announcing that, in the coming weeks,

I will be resigning as a member of the United States Senate."

In my optimistic way, I'm thinking "in the coming weeks" could be a long, long time from now. Especially since we are living in trump time world.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

85. Excellent summary article. . . . nt

[cp]

86. Good article

[Henry1]

88. Al, please don't go.

You should never have been asked to resign. Please don't go.

[niyad]

91. k and r