General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI love Al Franken as much as anyone
If I had been consulted I would have advised him to ride it out. He says the allegations are not true, which doesn't mean they aren't true but at this point he has the benefit of my doubt. He knows whether the allegations are true and if he knows those allegations to be false then he should stand his ground and stick it in the Republicans' ear.
But our causes are more important than one man. Apparently Democrats have deemed Al's resignation to be the best and only way forward. I have to give those Democrats the benefit of that doubt too and in any event I'm not going to pitch a fit here. We pick up the pieces and we move forward.
F*** #fakepresident and his toxic cult followers.
On a very tumultuous day, following weeks of disagreement and bickering, yours is one of the more reasoned and pragmatic posts I have read.
Thank you.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)Tatiana
(14,167 posts)If we had stood up and fought for Senator Franken, Republicans would hesitate to use this strategy again. But what did we do? We simply emboldened them.
We are pathetic strategists and I look forward to some younger and better decision-makers to lead this party because the so-called "leaders" we have bring to mind the saying "With friends like these..."
delisen
(6,044 posts)Much as I understand that senators are rarely leaders, and even more rarely, bold leaders--this event is still unsettling.
Schumer has had his successes with Trump, recognizing Jerusalem is one--but what price are we paying? I just don't know.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It's too easy to second guess. I assume that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Shumer have polling, focus groups, and a longer term strategy and I assume Al Franken was fully conferred.
What's the point of having leaders if you're going to not trust them? Are you sticking your neck out?
I'll leave the anti-government moping to "conservative" mopes.
Sorry, but how can we rely on making strategic moves after the polling disaster of 2016??
Cary
(11,746 posts)Many of us saw voter suppression coming.
Anyway you don't have an alternative. A rational person uses available data and plays the odds. Personally I Domingo for folksy "wisdom." An occasional deviation from the odds can be okay but the house always wins. Always, unless the owner is #fakepresident .
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)While it may be easy to 2nd guess, it is even easier to blindly follow.
Legislators legislate-make laws, negotiate, engage in political trading. They are not necessarily leaders. Often they are followers of public opinion.
I am under no obligation as a citizen to blindly follow any representative-especially those who are not obligated to represent me.
Hope that clarifies my post for you.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Vote Democratic!
It's that simple and you have no viable alternative.
Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,235 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/12/07/the-sexual-assault-epidemic-is-real/?utm_term=.1f6ebd9ce3e6
We're turning on ourselves because Democrats, lead by women legislators, want to draw a bright line in the sand on the issue of sexual assault. Al Franken can go on to do bigger & better things, but these accusations would have been a millstone around his neck everytime a new allegation surfaced. I can't see him being nearly as effective after these allegations as he was before.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I bet Al lands on his feet, somehow.
Those who hate Democrats will certainly try to use this to sow discord and discontent. I bet Al doesn't approve of that.
yardwork
(61,650 posts)Cary is right. We owe our Democratic leaders the benefit of the doubt too.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)I do care that this guilt by accusation storm is getting out of control.
Cary
(11,746 posts)What makes you think this doesn't bite them in the ass yet again? Their cult leader is guilty of this up to his eyeballs. Do you not suppose venal and craven Republicans have more to lose?
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)They win because of it. Whos in the WhiteHouse right now? Tons of women voted for him.
Cary
(11,746 posts)You will not see me sowing discord and discontent. I will not be doing Steve Bannon's dirty work.
Irish_Dem
(47,131 posts)Amen.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)We shall see.
As George Harrison said, life's a game sometimes you're cool sometimes you're lame.
rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)delisen
(6,044 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)Live off the land.
Trusting others and having an organic community is something we acquired via natural selection.
I'm not willing to hold elective office. I must trust others as others trust me in the work that I do.
delisen
(6,044 posts)If one does not trust politicians who are not obligated to represent one it does not follow that one trusts no one else.
Nor does it mean that one should "get off the grid" or Live off the land."
You are free to trust whomever you choose, just as I am.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I don't approve of any "both sides do it." One side is evil. If you aren't helping our side then you're helping evil.
Nothing you can say will convince otherwise.
delisen
(6,044 posts)in continuing.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Good grief.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)or just stupid
sorry to burst your bubble but those dem senators WORK for us
we the people...the ones the deep pockets call nobodies
we HAD a really good chance to turn this around and the dem
"leadership" decided to quit on us
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Our senate leaders had called for investigation while they looked to see if they could or should save Franken.
WHY are you and others blaming the leadership AGAINST ALL EVIDENCE?
What's really going on here?
We could argue if blaming the leadership is more stupid than evil or more evil than stupid, but that it's profoundly dishonest is a no-brainer.
The past is prologue. We must move forward.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)all the evidence in the public view tells me franken has been "acorned"
delisen
(6,044 posts)and others said nothing,
VOX
(22,976 posts)Your post tells me that youre a fair person who doesnt sweep dirt under the rug, but who also understands that the dirt may not be 100% genuine.
Thanks for the moment of sanity in a very insane day/month/year.
Cary
(11,746 posts)It's going to get worse.
Our nation is like a body rejecting a bad organ transplant.
VOX
(22,976 posts)*tightens seat belt* Ready.
yardwork
(61,650 posts)Voting third party in protest would be a stupid reaction, ensuring that even more Republicans win.
We move forward. We elect more Democrats. We take back our country.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I've been very conflicted about this whole issue with Al. I too love him and I tend to think the charges against him are, at best, exaggerated. At least some of them are. My heart says that he shouldn't have resigned, but I do have a head also. Both are deeply saddened right now.
But, regardless, I support Democrats. Even if they're flawed (as we all are; I know I am). Even when they're wrong, although it's right to point out that they're wrong. At their worst, they're miles better than the Republican Party.
ananda
(28,866 posts)This is just SO wrong and harmful to all of us!