Human Sacrifice Returns to the Americas

[MineralMan]

Yesterday, a sacrifice was held on an altar on Capitol Hill. A senator offered himself up as the sacrificial offering, and the ceremony was duly held.

Will that human sacrifice be enough? Is it appropriate? Will it bring Democrats together to retake control of both houses of Congress? Are the gods of politics sufficiently propitiated?

I'm thinking that the answer is "No" to all those questions. A day after this sacrificial offering, it seems clear that more and more useless sacrifices will be needed. This one appears to be creating more division than cooperation. It doesn't appear that those political gods have had enough sacrifices yet to grant the wishes we prayed for. They appear to be insatiable.

The whole human sacrifice thing was long ago abandoned as a bad idea. I don't think it's an idea that should return, really. It never did work. Throwing virgins off cliffs or into volcanoes never did seem to prevent calamity. We humans seem to be inept at learning lessons from history.

I think the appropriateness of this ceremony on the Senate floor will just leave a bloody mess and accomplish nothing. I think it was a mistake.

[dalton99a]

1. Kinda reminds me of Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery"

[MineralMan]

2. The whole thing reminds me of David Mamet's movie, "Oleanna"

Nobody saw that movie. They should. It's available to stream on Netflix. 87 minutes.

After viewing it, any opinion you have of it is wrong. All opinions of it are wrong. It's a strange, strange film, but brilliant.

[Honeycombe8]

28. The one with Michele Pfieffer? Based on a true story of woman who killed hubby? nt

[MineralMan]

30. I think you're thinking of "White Oleander."

Different movie.

[Honeycombe8]

48. Oh. Good. 'Cause I was having trouble relating that movie to this situation. ??? LOL nt

[MineralMan]

51. They sound similar, for sure.

Very, very different plot lines, though.

[peacebuzzard]

3. Your analogy is perfect

Last edited Fri Dec 8, 2017, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

And to take it further, when I saw Senator Frankens heartfelt speech yesterday, I couldn’t help but reflect how this must have literally broken his heart. ( as it did mine)
That is what would occur in the sacrificial ceremonies. The heart was ripped out of a live human being and the body discarded for the predators.

[colorado_ufo]

72. He probably thought that these were his friends.

[Alice11111]

73. Yes, his heart, ours, and our party's...lost respect.

I always thought we were the party with a soul. The Repubs have none, sadistic bastards.

Yesterday, we lost our soul.

[snooper2]

4. They threw humans into volcanoes to help plug the hole so it didn't erupt

Geesh, I though everyone knew this?


One thing they did have wrong is they didn't have to be virgins....

[brooklynite]

5. ...and by "human sacrifice", you mean: A senator decided to voluntarily resign?

[FreepFryer]

6. For an act to be truly voluntary, one must have agency. (n/t)

[MineralMan]

8. So did some of the human sacrifices of the old days.

Yes. Franken threw himself on the altar voluntarily.

[kirby]

19. You really think it was voluntary?

If you work daily with about 45 people and all of them including you boss/leader come by your office and said, 'Sorry this looks bad, we want to appear to have the upper hand with woman voters, want to distinguish ourselves as being on the right side of history in this metoo movement, you have to resign for the good of the party. If you don't we will make your life hell, strip you of all committee assignments, and shun you publicly...' ---- that isn't really voluntary.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

68. my firm is representing somebody who "resigned voluntary"

After he was banished from the building, cut-off from access to corporate networks, purged from the company website and staff were told to break-off contact with him.

The "resigned voluntary" line isn't getting much traction and it is going to be expensive since they're going to have to honor his employment contract and buy out his stake in the company. He might also go after the founders as individuals for defamation.

[rzemanfl]

27. Hi! n/t

[Honeycombe8]

29. Yeah...that's the story the guilty are trying to fly. Doesn't wash.

He was fired without cause and without consideration or due process. He was sacrificed for political expediency, to gain some points for those-that-will-seek-the-Presidency....and to play high moral character against the opposition (as if anyone cares; the Repubs don't care about that, and the Dems are already on board).

[Alliepoo]

47. I was shocked

I was shocked to see that Sherrod Brown had joined in on this poorly thought out mess. I thought he had much better sense. He’s up against the nasty little twerp, Josh Mandel, who runs as nasty a campaign as you’ll find. Guess he thought it was politically expedient to join the mob. Don’t know if this will help him with voters or not.

[treestar]

74. you're not getting metaphors today

don't read anything literary, as it is going to frighten you.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. Ravenous political gods and sacrifice? This hyperbole is ridiculous.

[MineralMan]

9. Is it? OK...as you will...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Al Franken will continue to live a better life, financially, than 99% of the posters on this board.

He should wait a few years and then he could rebuild his public career by running for mayor of Minneapolis. That was the Weiner route before he repeated the behavior that got him in trouble in the first place.

[MineralMan]

13. No doubt. I suspect, though, that Franken will not seek office again.

He tried that line of work out. He'll move on to other things, I'm sure.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. It worked out until it didn't.

I have a lot of thoughts on his resignation. Common sense informs me if I grab a woman by her buttocks or breasts I risk her slapping me or her partner punching me in the face. That being said, sexual abuse/harassment occurs on a scale . There is a huge chasm between "copping a feel" and statutorily raping a fourteen year old and attempting to rape a sixteen year old. Franken said he remembers those incidents differently without denying them. That makes a kind of sense. The problem is the women who were touched found the touching invasive.

In this environment with Moore likely coming to the Senate they wanted clean hands and not even a whiff of whataboutism when they go after him. In another environment he likely survives.

Nobody should be judged by their worst act(s). I don't see why Al Franken's public career is over.

[MineralMan]

18. I think his political career is over, but because he will choose

not to re-engage in it. I'm sure the attraction is gone at this point. He doesn't need it, so why would he repeat it?

Just a guess, but that would be my call, were I in his position.

At one time, I considered entering that field. I decided against it. I was encouraged once to run for a local office, and very well might have won, given the situation and the times. I thought about it, and decided that I did not want to expose my life to public view, so I declined. I have never regretted that.

[Honeycombe8]

32. Mayor. How does that help women's wages in the country?

You don't seem to know much about Franken.

His political career is likely over. Weiner's national political career was over...but he did something to cause that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. "You don't seem to know much about Franken."

I know enough.

The thirty two senators , including fourteen female senators, didn't believe the fate of the republic rests on having him remain in the Senate or they wouldn't have called for his removal.

Weiner resigned from the House for consensually sharing photos of his genitalia with other adults. His career ended when it was discovered he shared photos of his genitalia with minors after he resigned from the House and was running for New York mayor.

[Honeycombe8]

40. No, Weiner's issue was that he sent pics of his willie NONCONSENSUALLY...he was kicked out of

Congress for taking a porn pic inside the House of Representative locker room....nonconsensually, of course.

He's a perv. His career was over when he was kicked out of Congress. His wife should've dumped him at that time. She learned her lesson much later, after one of his perverted porn pics with the baby in the pic.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. If he sent photos of his genitalia

If he sent photos of his genitalia to people without their permission he would have been charged at the time. The fact he wasn't proved he didn't. If you have evidence that he sent photos of his genitalia to anybody without their permission adduce it. Weiner was forced to resign because he was a creep not because he was criminal. He became a creepy criminal when he sent a photo of his genitalia to a fifteen year old.

You , me, or anybody doesn't get to touch another person's buttocks or breasts without their permission. We don't get to say whether or not that person gets to say he or she felt violated. On the spectrum of sexual abuse and harassment is "copping a feel" on the worst side of spectrum ? Of course not but it is still an offense that will get you in trouble.

We live in a hyper-sensitive sexual environment. It might be a good thing. It might be a bad thing. But it is what is. And in any environment we don't get to touch people without their consent whether we are among the highest or lowliest.

[Honeycombe8]

49. That's exactly what he did. You don't remember? That's how it got out....

one of the women reported it. I don't recall who she reported it to...but it got out and around and on the internet...and NO, it was not w/her or the others' permission. He didn't even KNOW some of the women, beyond meeting them briefly at a function somewhere.

He was a sure enough pervert. No doubt about it.

You'll have to Google this yourself. I'm not going to swim thru Weiner's perverted world again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Weiner is an awful guy who embarrassed our party. I implied that from the jump.

I was just using him as an example of someone trying to rebuild a political career. I don't believe Franken is a bad guy. I do believe he gave his opponents a cudgel and they were only too happy to use it on him. The Democrats are trying to clear the deck to go after Moore and they didn't want any distractions. Franken got caught up in the maelstrom.


I don't know what the proper disposition should have been. That's above my pay grade. I do know the argument that we (Democrats) asked a prominent senator of our own party to resign over relatively minor sexual transgressions while the GOP seats a child rapist is a strong argument going into the mid terms.

Short story, in any other environment Franken likely survives.

[Honeycombe8]

61. He didn't give anyone anything. I didn't see anything that equates to harassment.

It's a false argument. Most of his accusers are anonymous. Two are NOT harassment (he grabbed my waist with a pinch, when I requested he lean in for a photo with me), etc.

Tens of thousands of photos of him. He LIVED in front of cameras his entire adult life. And yet not ONE shows him inappropriately touching anyone. That says it all.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. We are at an impasse.

[sprinkleeninow]

70. 'Dems, clearing the deck, not wanting distractions to pursue moore.'

What 'could' be their 'strategy'.
I haven't a clue.
His resignation is bad, but it is a reality.
The Dems had better have a sensible ulterior motive to have called for this and not one out of self promotion.
I just don't know anymore.
I'll stay registered for the time being until I ascertain what's what.

[Honeycombe8]

59. Here's a BRIEF walk through Weiner's perverted world

-- May 27, 2011: A lewd photo appears briefly on Weiner's Twitter account. Conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart is first to report the image, which shows the bulging crotch of a man in his underwear.
-- May 30, 2011: The congressman tells reporters a hacker got control of his Twitter account. "Look, this is a prank and not a terribly creative one," Weiner says.
-- June 6, 2011: In an abrupt about-face, a tearful Weiner apologizes for having lied about his Twitter account being hacked and admits to having engaged in inappropriate online relationships with several women he met on the Internet, generally on Facebook. He tells reporters he will not resign and does not plan to separate from his wife. "To be clear, the picture was of me, and I sent it," Weiner says.
-- June 12, 2011: TMZ publishes photos of Weiner, in various states of undress, which he apparently took of himself in a locker room.
(Mr. Weiner had traded private messages with a 17-year-old girl in Delaware) (It was only after the involvement of the House of Rep's locker room, and a minor, that Pelosi asks Weiner to resign.)
-- June 16, 2011: Weiner announces his resignation from Congress to reporters at a senior center in Brooklyn, New York. He apologizes "for the personal mistakes I have made and for the embarrassment I have caused."
-- July 23, 2013: A gossip website publishes screen shots of sexual conversations that Weiner allegedly had with a woman last summer.
-- September 11, 2013: Weiner finishes a distant fifth place in the mayoral race. His campaign imploded after he admitted to having more lewd conversations with women he met on the Internet. Bill de Blasio wins the Democratic nomination.
-- January 15, 2016: The documentary on Weiner's disastrous 2013 run for New York City mayor debuts at the Sundance Film Festival. "Weiner" chronicles what begins as a redemption story for the disgraced politician. But it descends into tears and, eventually, farce after it is revealed that the conduct leading to Weiner's initial disgrace continued well after he left Washington, D.C.
-- August 29, 2016: Abedin announces separation from Weiner after new reports surfaced that he sent sexually suggestive photos again.
(Weiner was alleged to have sent a picture of a barechested man with white boxers and a bulge, while a small child is asleep beside him. His 4 year old son.)
--September 29, 2017 Former Rep. Anthony Weiner was sentenced Monday to 21 months in federal prison for sexting with a minor.
In addition to the prison term, Weiner also was sentenced to three years of supervised release. (sending obsene material to a 15 year old girl)

Pelosi did the right thing in asking Weiner to resign. He had a serious problem.

[HopeAgain]

22. Too early

for people to have perspective yet. Give them time.

[Honeycombe8]

41. Perspective does come with time. But people often recognize wrong when they see it...

and injustice. You don't need time or perspective for such things.

Wrong is wrong.

I have my list. Checking it twice. I've now seen who's naughty and nice.

[annabanana]

25. hyperbole is lingua franca

adjust your intake receptors accordingly

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Or, to employ another metaphor:

Was Franken sacrificed to take away the sins of the Democratic Party? There seemed to be a lot of people shouting "Crucify him!" Unfortunately he won't be getting his job back in three days, and the party is as sinful as ever.

[MineralMan]

11. That was probably the idea, I guess.

Sadly, we'll probably be hearing about other people in the House and Senate, including Democrats, who aren't innocent of sexual peccadilloes. It looks like that slush fund to pay off accusers is going to end up as public information, and it won't be pretty on either side, I suspect.

You're right. Al Franken won't be rising from the tomb and saving us all. In the meantime, we're all fighting with each other, while the Republicans, who don't give a damn, are planning their next moves.

Ugh!

[Honeycombe8]

46. The irony of trying to be the "moral party" is that it doesn't matter, in the end.

The Repubs are not going to vote for "moral Democrats" (Exh A: Moore is leading Jones in Alabama.) Repubs vote Republican. Repubs voted for Trump by the millions. Repubs re-elected David Vitter, after being caught in trysts with prostitutes while feeding his fetish for wearing diapers. Repubs don't care about morals.

And Democrats don't care much about that, either. We ARE more liberal, moral-wise. And that's a good thing. Not that we don't have any morals.

I guess they're banking on teh female vote. The Dems already HAD the female vote. I am female. I am a feminist. I am anti-harassment. Railroading someone who might be totally innocent...did NOT get my vote. They already had it. But railroading him may have taken my vote from them because I'm pissed. And they know a of people are pissed about this. They're all over tv, trying out different excuses..."his choice" "no one made him" "there were so many accusers!" "We don't want to distinguish particular kinds of acts of harassment" ( a false equivalency, since some of allegations against Franken are not harassment, to begin with ) or...and this is my favorite by Gillibrand: "He's not been banished from decent society. I'll talk to him, if he calls." (LOL)

Oh, well. It's done. I wont be voting for any Presidential candidate who was on the railroad Franken bandwagon, though. Many will forget. I won't.

[HelenWheels]

54. I will not forget either

I will never vote or financially support the traitors that railroaded the best Senator in the Senate.

[Ligyron]

63. Me either.

I've never been more pissed at the Party in my 63 years. They won't get my money or effort either.

In 2018 they'll realize how badly they screwed up.

[Honeycombe8]

71. +1. nt

[peggysue2]

14. Absolutely agree, MM

A sacrifice was required to clean the path on that shaky moral highway. Al Franken was the sacrificial goat, not because he'd done something monstrous but because he had the audacity to admit his boorish misconduct was wrong, stupid and disrespectful. Confessions might be good for the soul but yesterday's sad result means confessions and/or apologies sure ain't good for a political career.

I mentioned this on another thread but Lawrence O'Donnell said something last night that struck me as very pertinent: Don't expect to find fairness in politics.

He's probably right. But it still sucks.

Like you, I don't expect this sacrificial act to accomplish anything worthwhile. We just lost a damn, fine Senator. Party on!

[MineralMan]

15. Thanks! I'm seeing no benefits to any of this.

Worse, I have no idea what to do about that.

[ananda]

17. Are you kidding?

Hell no it's not ok, not normal, not appropriate!!!!!!!

[zentrum]

20. The "High Road"

…of publicly humiliating one of our most effective Senators.

[MineralMan]

21. Well, everything can be viewed with a microscope or a macroscope.

You see things in different ways, depending on how you choose to view them.

The end result? Who knows? I certainly don't.

[LakeArenal]

23. Accomplishing nothing seems to be the trend today....

[MineralMan]

24. Sadly, we're pretty good at that, generally.

[pandr32]

26. All we did was blur the lines--creating false equivalency ourselves

This is what Republicans hoped for. Again we carried their water and let them run the game, but as usual we told ourselves we were doing the right thing--we weren't.

We are social animals. Awkward behavior is commonplace. There is no way awkward social behavior will end.

To tar a powerful senator with awkward behavior as though it equates to preying on people is disastrous. Moore, tRump, and others preyed on people. They had intent.

Sen. Franken has a comedic background and clowning around is part and parcel. He mixes with people as a politician should instead of dodging town halls and public events because he quite literally is a hands-on politician. He is one of our best.

He has never given us any reason to believe he lied about those encounters with his accusers--his being an honest steadfast and dedicated Liberal senator is why he was attacked. His star was rising. Moore, tRump and others, on the other hand, have repeatedly lied and have shown no regard for women and girls, or being respectful.

[Honeycombe8]

34. Yes. They were played like violins by the opposition.

Not a leader among them.



But not everyone jumped on the bandwagon. There are ostensibly some leaders among that group.

[maddiemom]

37. Very well stated!

"Awkward Behavior" is an excellent descriptive term to differentiate between situations like Franken's and those of Moore, or most specifically our "Pussy Grabber" POTUS (make that PGOTUS).

[pandr32]

43. I think it is an important distinction

Thank you!

[Ilsa]

31. Even Newt Gingrich and Laura Ingraham thought it was wrong to

push him out. Of course, they criticized the hypocritical assault and push for some sort of "moral purity." Stated it was all for 2018.

[MineralMan]

36. Nope. I've been a Democrat all of my adult life.

I'm not changing donkeys now.

[gordianot]

35. None of Frankens detractors are capable of skewering Republicans as well as he.

Franken did not have to even raise his voice when he cut satirical. I expect a loss of control and handing Republicans gotcha material. Bipartisan non political compromise is dead it is when Republicans eat the Democratic Party. We are desperately in need of new blood and a bolder message especially now that Republicans have permission to run over our finances and lie with impunity.

[maddiemom]

39. Franken was very well informed and relentless in his Senate questioning.

Relentlessness is sadly missing in most Democrats, and a major tactic of Republicans.

[dalton99a]

62. Republicans are ecstatic that he's gone

A nice clean hit job - thanks to 38 Democratic senators

[questionseverything]

75. his handling of sessions might of been his undoing

corporate dems are always at the ready to protect the repubs...think lieberman or the xsenator from Arkansas, lincoln

but generally it is only 1 or 2 of them letting the rest go un noticed

[Mountain Mule]

42. I could not agree more - thanks Mineral Man!

[MineralMan]

44. And thanks to you for taking the time to reply!

I appreciate that.

[lark]

50. Huge catastrophic mistake of epic proportions!

I really loathe the asses that drove this travesty and wonder, yes I strongly wonder, why they aren't going after Moore and drumpf? Hmmmm? I think this was a heinous act that some (Gillibrand, Sanders, maybe others?) selfishly thought would increase their chances of winning a nomination. They are too stupid to realize that no Dem male or female will have a chance now, some repug will lie about them claiming sex assault, and all 'dems will pile on. I really hope I'm wrong, but unless Mueller can really show some major dirt,
dems will not win again and may not even then due to the backstabbing of other so-called, very selfish, progressives.

[MineralMan]

53. I'm not sure I'd go that far, really.

I think there was thought put into all of this, but I also think not enough thought, perhaps.

[lark]

55. Maybe? I know I'm really really angry,

and could be over-reacting a tad. I still think it was heinous and selfish and I will never donate one dime to backstabbing Gillibrand, Harris or Sanders. They put themselves over the good of the party, didn't even try to find out the facts which exonerate Franken, just stabbed him in the back for their own gain.

[lark]

56. Oh yeah, prior to this I was really hoping Harris would run for president.

No more, she just closed down this cookie jar. She will have to do something spectacularly good before I'd support her now.

[R B Garr]

52. It was indeed a sacrifice and they will get nothing in return.

All that will happen is the GOP will happily use the false equivalencies that Gillibrand has now ratified for them. An arm around a waist in a photograph is not sexual misconduct. Poaching young girls with false claims of "dating" them is sexual misconduct. A 30-year-old man approaching teens is searching for broken homes where the true victim is sufficiently alienated from parental support that she will be pliable. That is not dating.

But Gillibrand has now been trivialized "allegations" to such extremes that the GOP has to do nothing to defend themselves. The Democrats have trivialized it all for them.

Gillibrand is just trying to make a name for herself and establish her own brand as a Senator. To tell voters that you can turn out their duly elected Senator over tripe like this is just inexcusable. If I were a Minnesotan, I would be furious that someone took my Senator away. I'm not even in Minnesota, and I'm still furious.

[Gothmog]

58. K&R

[orangecrush]

60. K&R

[L. Coyote]

64. "returns to the Americas" Thanks for being such a racist!

What next, scapling? Naming sports teams The Cannibals?

You really need to take down your horrible insult to Native Americans.

The Cannibalism Paradigm: Assessing Contact Period Ethnohistorical Discourse.

[SalviaBlue]

66. I agree!

rec.

[Thor_MN]

67. Two minor slashes from dubious weapons and a handful of mysterious minor wounds of

unknown etiology. The soon to be mortal wounds, all in the back, were from knives that had "D"s engraved on them.

[Scruffy1]

69. You description is the best I have seen.

I ahve said it before and I will say it again. In our culture those who stand up and fight are respected more than those who don't. The whole thing was a huge black mark on the Democratic Party. Personally i think it's time to boycott the corporate medoa and find other ways to communicate messages.

[RKP5637]

76. Millions of people will see what they did as a weakness of the democratic party again rather than

standing up to the GOP.

[Lifelong Protester]

77. K & R!

[yodermon]

78. Human sacrifice never left. It's called "war". n/t

[Heartstrings]

79. Al Franken

The sacrificial lamb laid at the alter of the hypocritical Christian Right......

Thank you, Al! You gave us Robert Mueller......