I believe what Tina Depuy said, but I think she's wrong

[gollygee]

Which might seem like a contradiction, but it isn't.

If you think you've hidden your extra weight under your clothes well and someone finds it, it is going to be uncomfortable, and I get that. She probably felt horrified and exposed and uncomfortable.

And Sen. Franken might have had no idea that she felt that way. Or he might have felt her recoil and might wondered why.

There is no way touching someone's waist ever constitutes "groping" or "copping a feel." That might be how she felt, and if so that's because of her discomfort over her weight, not because of Al Franken.

I speak as a somewhat overweight middle aged woman. Not casting stones against weight problems - I have a bad thyroid and I've had two kids. It's hard to keep the weight off. But if I were uncomfortable that someone found my extra weight, that wouldn't be their fault.

[Irish_Dem]

1. Some women might not like a stranger grabbing them by the waist. nt

[rzemanfl]

2. Figures. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

3. And some men might not like ...

... being accused of sexual impropriety when they didn't engage in it.

[gollygee]

4. If you ask a stranger to pose in a photo with you

you've given them permission to do some light touching, and in a photo op that often includes touching their waist.

However, even if a stranger just touched your waist without permission, while it might be uncomfortable and threatening and wrong for other reasons, it would not be "groping' or "copping a feel." If someone grabbed my arm without permission, I would be scared and uncomfortable but they would not be groping me or copping a feel. It's the same with the waist. It isn't a sexual enough part of the body.

[pnwmom]

5. That women was one of many getting a photo with him and she could have seen, before her own photo

that he was putting his arm around people as he hugged them.

If she was so shy she should have either not taken the photo, or asked him not to touch her.

[kirby]

6. Did you read her full article?

"Then I saw Al Franken. I only bug celebrities for pictures when it’ll make my foster mom happy. She loves Franken, so I asked to get a picture with him. We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

I’d been married for two years at the time; I don’t let my husband touch me like that in public because I believe it diminishes me as a professional woman. Al Franken’s familiarity was inappropriate and unwanted. It was also quick; he knew exactly what he was doing."

While she may have been offended, is that that standard that everyone is held to? Someone who has a personal belief system that they won't let their husband touch them in public 'trumps' a fairly common practice of putting an arm around someone during a photo op? And her personal conclusion was that 'he knew what he was doing?' Sounds like it could have been a misunderstanding or some other issue here. How many sexual assaulters do we have here on DU if that is the standard?

[gollygee]

8. He would have no idea what her personal feelings about her husband touching her are

It is standard for people to touch people in non-sexual places, like the waist, during a photo op. And a gentle two-time squeeze is a pretty standard thing, isn't it? Maybe more often on the hand but if his hand was already on her waist it doesn't seem weird to me.

And she has no idea what he was thinking. Obviously.

But he was familiar because he'd been invited into a level of familiarity by being asked to be in a photo. I don't see any greater level of familiarity than that.

And I'm a proponent of the "metoo" movement. I'm glad to see women speaking, and I truly think women almost always tell the truth. I think she's telling the truth. I just think she had an incorrect interpretation on Al Franken's motivation based on an insecurity about her weight.

[kirby]

10. I'm not sure what the truth is here though?

The article that she published was 'I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too'. I don't consider that a fair or accurate representation.
I have no idea about claims from any of the other women...but for some reason this one claim has touched a nerve for me. In fact I think if this the type of assault behavior associated with the metoo movement, it will make the movement look like a joke.

People want to show their solidarity with woman who have not been heard but the pendulum must not swing so far that people are afraid to call something absurd what it really is.

[gollygee]

11. I am not sure what to make of all the others

There was the USO performer who said he stuck his tongue in her mouth? I honestly believe that - I've seen male performers do that to female performers before in live shows thinking it was funny and it's always felt horrible to me. But I'm afraid it was standard practice for performers and I hope performers are learning that it's bad and not just a funny joke.

There's a picture where she's asleep and he has his hands in front of her chest. She said he groped her but she was asleep and wouldn't know and it looks to me like his hands are out in front of her. Bad joke and at her expense, and she deserves an apology.

Then someone said he touched her butt during a photo op? I've had that happen and it's uncomfortable. It's weird because you feel like you have to pose for the photo and can't respond. I don't know what to say about that. It isn't anywhere near the level of Roy Moore, but if he did it it's certainly wrong.

But this hand on the waist thing bothers me. That just plain isn't what groping is.

[FarCenter]

7. No man should ever be photographed without his hands being visible.

Preferably clasped in front of him.

[gratuitous]

9. In front of him, but not at a level that might be construed as crotch high

Also, he should be careful to smile in a way that looks cheerful but not creepy as interpreted by his worst enemies.

On a slightly serious note (yeah, right), I have become confused during this episode over the difference - if any - between actions that are considered sexual harassment and inappropriate touching. I used to think that sexual harassment needed some kind of ongoing interaction or relationship, but lately I've seen the momentary encounters for a photo between Franken and his accusers characterized as sexual harassment.

[Demsrule86]

12. Let me just say I think she is a God Damned liar. No, I don't believe this person.