A humble request

[angrychair]

My crusade has not been to past judgement on Franken but, as as someone that was sexually assaulted as a child by two different people, to point out the language and tone used by some in their defense of Franken and gently remind them that when some use terms and phrases that all but condemn the accusations as lies and the people as all but garbage, before even they actually know the truth sends a clear signal:

speaking out against the powerful or wealthy is never going to work out for you and it’s safer and healthier to keep your mouth shut

I would hate to be these people, from the accusers of Moore to Franken to the poor child that just doesn’t want to be touched anymore (my attackers were caught in the act, I never had to accuse anyone), you have to be willing to let yourself get sexually assaulted all over again, having ever word analyzed, every action questioned, every motive doubted.

Memories are funny things. They don’t always want to be discovered. They are not always perfect. Sometimes they are not even there anymore. It’s the way our brain works.

Please keep all in mind when you attack...sorry...”question”...these stories and examine every detail of their lives.

[LexVegas]

1. Rec. nt

[nini]

2. These accusations are a bit fishy

That's why most people wanted some kind of investigation. That does not mean I don't believe victims either.

Unfortunately we live in a society where people will lie and the dirty tricks of the right are not beyond doing this either. Franken deserves the truth to come out as much as they do.

That's all.

Let me add.. you are right that victims deserve the benefit of the doubt too.. I am not saying they do not. But what if Franken is the victim?

[Caliman73]

6. Everyone deserves the truth to come out in due process ... no?

Or just Franken?


I agree that Republicans tend to use anything as a weapon and they seem to lack any ethical grounding, but we also have to extend due process to all do we not?

[nini]

13. Did I say only Franken deserves the truth to come out?

No..no I didn't.

[angrychair]

9. I dont begrudge Franken that opportunity

He is wealthy. Nothing stops him from getting third-party, neutral, professional, arbitration and fully cooperating with that investigation.
He has a right to justice as much as anybody.

(See I defend Franken without smearing anyone)

[nini]

14. I wasn't smearing anyone

wow

[angrychair]

17. I apologize if it came across that way nini

It was more a response, not a response specifically directed at you.
I’m not trying to make anyone out into a bad guy but my perspective on this is obvious.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[nini]

21. Thanks.

these are difficult times for sure and talking on the internet is tough because we can't see our faces and and tones of our voices.

[Irish_Dem]

3. Rec. nt

[Caliman73]

4. Agreed.

There has been a great deal of anger regarding Franken and people appear to have their minds made up regardless of not having all of the pertinent information regarding either situation with Franken or Moore. I am more aligned with Franken's situation than Moore's but seeing all of the posts attacking Democratic politicians and the women who made allegations against Franken is off putting and I can only imagine the effect it is having on people who have experienced assault or molestation.

[ck4829]

5. Memories are funny things

Notice the special place for confabulation, hindsight bias, memory conformity, and the misinformation effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Memory

[Caliman73]

8. Does this apply to all memories or just the memories of the people accusing Franken?

Or should we not care about applying the ideas consistently and just rampage on our enemies?

[Drahthaardogs]

7. Sorry, but when she says a skit was written so she could be kissed

And then said skit is shown being performed 3 years EARLIER by a different actress, it's a lie and she's a liar.

Calling it anything else serves no one.

[angrychair]

11. You ignore the fact

That she may not have been/was not on the tour three years ago or has little to no insight into who wrote what when and made assumptions. The touring ensemble for the USO tours change constantly.
I’m not saying that is the case here but I am saying I don’t know if that is a possibility, do you?
Are you an expert on USO tours? Their skits? How they communicate about skits and their history?

It could be a lie or just a poor assumption.

[Drahthaardogs]

12. She said he was writing the skit "Just to kiss her"

Who wrote it matters not a lick. What DOES matter is that the skit was already written three years earlier, which directly contradicts her bullshit story.

False assumptions = Alternative Facts

[angrychair]

16. I return to my original point

I’m not here to pass judgement on him or her.

It’s about language and approach.

Do what you will. Your mind is obviously made up.

[Drahthaardogs]

19. And it's time we start calling a lie a lie

And a liar a liar.

I'm sorry something bad happened to you. It in no way shape or form compels us to suffer bullshit.

In fact, their actions diminish the legitimate claims of real victims. You do realize that right?

[angrychair]

22. Yes

Every false accusation creates yet another barrier for people in my situation or worse.

It’s not lost on me.

The problem is that we don’t know the truth, we know part of the story.

Trust me, there are questions in my mind as well and I very much want Franken to get the justice he deserves, to vindicate him or to humble him.

Unfortunately, it’s been my experience and observation, that no one actually gets “justice” or “resolution” in these things. It’s not a book or movie, no matter how this ends, no matter who is telling the truth, no one really “wins”.

[mythology]

26. I disagree

If Franken said things like he wrote it to kiss her, then she wouldn't necessarily know otherwise. You can say this is an assumption and it is, but he could have said it in the same sense as taking the picture feigning groping, not realizing it could be misinterpreted.

Or many sexual predators like to put themselves in a position of power. Whether it's Weinstein threatening to blackball somebody or a victim being told nobody would believe the victim. Franken is accused of telling another woman he had the right to kiss her because he's an entertainer. That could have been meant to be funny (which it wouldn't be) or it could have been meant to be intimidating.

In a similar sense think about how Lauer would make a show of locking his door with that button. It almost certainly didn't prevent the door from being opened from the inside. But by locking the door, he would not only prevent anybody from walking in, he would be giving the woman the impression she was trapped.

[Drahthaardogs]

27. Assumptions???

Seriously,?

She's a liar. Alternative Facts don't count. If you are going to publicly come out and call the man out trying to ruin his career, you better have something stronger than "assumptions".

You better have your facts in order

Maybe you don't take slandering a person quite as seriously as I do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. When I was fourteen years old

When I was fourteen years old I was washing my hands in a public restroom in a department store in DeLand, Florida, I can still remember which side of the shopping center and it was on. At fourteen years old I was already six feet tall and one hundred eighty pounds. This guy, who appeared to be in his sixties leaned over me and asked "if you would like to feel the juices ?" I can still assist a police composite artist in what he looked like At fourteen I was already six feet tall and one hundred and eighty pounds. I could have easily kicked his ass. That was my first thought after I got out of there as fast as I could. I never told my friends or my mom, ever.


Before I shared this story today I only shared it with a handful of people. Did the incident scar me ? i don;t think so but it was burned into my memory.

[angrychair]

15. Thank you for sharing DSB

I understand. In my case I was 2 or 3 was attacked by a male babysitter for months I assume but I don’t actually know but he was caught.

The second I was 9 and it was a friend’s older sister, 17 or 18, and she was having her younger sister (my friend) and I play “doctor” with each other and she would also do stuff to me...I have very broken memories of those events.

That said, every person’s mind manages these memories and emotions differently. I have the perspective of looking back over 40 years with a hard-won sense of self-respect and self-examination but some do not.

Again, thank you for sharing and stay strong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I'm not going to embellish.

It creeped me out. I can still recount most of the details after forty years so it obviously left a mark but I don't think it changed me in any fundamental way. I do know I didn't tell my mom or friends about it.

[angrychair]

20. That story is your own

Never feel compelled to share more than you want.

To be honest, my own family and friends dont know that story.

Being on this board gives me an ability I do not have in my normal life: a chance to say it out loud and not be judged or looked on as damaged.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. That's the entire story.

His walking up to me as I washing my hands in a public restroom and making that creepy utterance.

When I was a young man this young woman stalked me as I caught her peeking through the patio door of the townhome I was renting. That was a bit odd and a bit flattering.

I also have been the subject of unwanted advances by three or four men and more than one women. Now at my advanced age nobody "bothers" me.

BTW, I can't tell you how to feel because none of us get to tell others how to feel. I will tell you I feel you didn't do anything wrong.

[angrychair]

24. Thanks

Being a sexual assault survivor as a man, even though I was a child at the time of the attacks, is the greatest hurdle for me. I did tell a girlfriend many (many) years ago and she started making jokes about me not being her “first”. I’m a pretty easy going guy and I let it go at first but it got irritating and I wasn’t even sure why I told her.

Anyways, thank you and hope you have a good day

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. When I was growing up my best friend was sexually abused.

His mom was my mom's best friend and told her and she told me years later.. He never told me. That's how I learned.

[PoliticAverse]

28. Your post highlights why people don't always share these things even with people they are close to.