Michigan governor will keep Conyers Congressional seat vacant until NOVEMBER, 2018

[RandySF]

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) said a special election to replace former Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) will be not be held until November 6, 2018.


https://politicalwire.com/2017/12/08/conyers-seat-will-remain-vacant-11-months/

[Angry Dragon]

1. Snyder is a TRAITOR............plain and simple truth

[sarcasmo]

8. Snyder should be in prison over Flint.

[roamer65]

2. Rick is a dick.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. That is just so wrong on so many levels.

He is pissing on the citizens on the citizens of Michigan.

[question everything]

4. Can he do this? Can the Democratic party of Michigan sue him? (nt)

[RandySF]

5. Depends on Michigan law

[onenote]

14. Michigan Law

168.633 Special elections; vacancy in office of representative in congress.
Sec. 633. The governor shall call a special election in any congressional district of the state when the right
of office of a person elected representative in congress shall cease before the commencement of the term of
service for which he shall have been elected, or whenever a vacancy shall occur in the office of representative
in congress after the term of service has begun for which such representative was elected; or the governor
shall direct that such vacancy shall be filled at the next general election to be held at least 30 days after such
vacancy shall occur.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

35. Sounds like he can't keep it vacant that long

Given that we're a little less than a year out. But hey, it worked for Mitch McConnell and SCOTUS.

[onenote]

37. How do you reach that conclusion?

Again, I think the election should be held sooner and there is precedent supporting the conclusion that, as a practical matter, there is no reason it can't be held sooner.

But I don't see anything in the Michigan provision or in the Constitution that requires it to be held sooner.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

38. Unless I'm reading it wrong

Michigan law requires a.)The Governor SHALL call for a special election following a vacancy and b.)Can request that it be done at a general election if the vacancy is within 30 days of a special election. November 2018 is way more than 30 days away.

[onenote]

41. I think you are reading it wrong

It allows the governor to request that the special election coincide with the next general election if that next general election is "to be held at least 30 days after" the vacancy.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

42. Yeah but

The general election is not for almost a year, well beyond 30 days. What am I missing here?

[lostnfound]

47. He cannot fill it with a general election that is LESS than 30 days away...

The point being that you have to have at least thirty days to allow voters to decide or people to campaign. You can’t stuff it in a general election three days later, for example.

He can fill it eithe Ron a special election OR at the next general election. If the next general election was two years away, he could still wait for that.

[Jim Lane]

49. What the 30 days means

As I read it, the Governor does not have the option of directing that the seat be filled at a general election if that election is so soon after the vacancy (only 30 days) that there wouldn't be a reasonable time for a campaign. Therefore, if the vacancy occurs in that 30-day window before a regular election, the Governor can't use that regular election to fill the seat. (BTW, that makes sense to me.)

But that's the only constraint on the Governor's choice. He has the option of calling a special election. As long as the next general election is at least 30 days away, however, he also has the option of skipping the special election and directing that the seat be filled at the next general election.

Sleazy for him to do it, but the text of the law as posted above appears to give him that power.

[onenote]

56. The thirty days provision is, admittedly, very confusing

Imagine that a vacancy occurs on October 30, 2018 and the next general election is on November 6, 2018. What are the Governor's options? There isn't time to schedule and hold a special election before November 6. The language seems to say that the governor can't fill the seat with the general election. But since the seat is going to be filled for the term starting January 2013 -- Holding a special election (which could require holding a primary first) after November but before January would be costly and difficult given that the vacancy expires at the beginning of January.

One possible, but hardly clear from the language, result is that the language is supposed to allow the Governor, in effect, to deem the general election to be the special election and thus the winner would take office immediately (and then be sworn in again in January). That seems weird. But so too does the alternative, which is to say that the language allows the Governor not schedule any special election and simply allow the seat to be filled in January after the general election.

The reference to "general elections" might make sense if there was a general election held in an off year (2017, 2019, etc). But as far as I know, Michigan (unlike states like Virginia) does not hold off year elections.

[Jim Lane]

61. In the example you give, I'd say the seat just stays vacant for two months.

In your example of what happened in 2012 (vacancy in July), there was two months for the primary and then two months for the general, so the seat was vacant for four months. If a vacancy occurs on October 30, 2018, there isn't time for a special election before the term ends, so none is held. The seat is vacant for just over two months, which still isn't as bad as the 2012 situation.

What I've seen of the language (in this thread, because I've done no other research) would not support an inference that the Governor can just declare that a general election for the 2019-2021 term will also fill the vacancy for the remainder of the 2017-2019 term, even though that general election is within the 30-day window for which that result is specifically prohibited. Also, without reviewing the U.S. Constitution, I think that the Governor would not be allowed to assume such a power if the Michigan statute did not expressly provide for it, because it would amount to a gubernatorial appointment.

The bottom lines are:
1) Michigan should amend its law to follow the pattern of other states by setting specific time limits for the scheduling by the Governor, to prevent unfair snap elections ("We'll vote on this in 31 days because I know the candidate I like will have the best chance that way&quot and the kind of crap (unreasonable delay) that Snyder is pulling here.
2) The current law, although it doesn't require a fair procedure, still allows Snyder to act in the public interest, but he is instead putting partisan interests first.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

62. The way they write laws

It seems like it would take a lawyer to interpret them.

[Blue_true]

46. It sounds like he can. The rule only say the election should occur

at least 30 days after the seat becomes vacant.

[octoberlib]

6. This shouldn't be legal.

[kcr]

7. That Zero Tolerance plan sure looks like a great idea now!

Thanks, Gillibrand!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

9. Why should the residents of that Congressional District be denied representation in Congress for

almost a year? Doesn't the U S Constitution guarantee the right of representation for citizens?

[Angry Dragon]

12. Yes it does.............he is a TRAITOR

[onenote]

15. All the Constitution says on this subject that vacancies in the House must be filled by an election.

Article I, Section 2.

[Angry Dragon]

18. I believe it also says you have the right to representation

you write a rep that does not represent you, they say will not answer you

[onenote]

21. Obviously, since the Constitution requires an election to fill a vacancy

one can't have a "right" to representation between the time a vacancy occurs and the time the election is held.

I'm curious where in the Constitution this "right to representation" language is found.

[Angry Dragon]

22. I believe we fought a war over this very subject

Article 1, Section 2

[onenote]

24. So I guess that means you can't find someting in the Constitution that requires the special election

to be held before November.

I agree that the special election can and should be held before next November -- precedent indicates it only takes four months to conduct the primary and election process, so filling the seat by April is doable.

But while I think the election can and should be held before November, I see nothing in the Constitution that requires that it be held before next November.

[Angry Dragon]

25. The words do not exist in the Constitution

Who is going to represent the people until then??

[onenote]

27. who would represent them until the election if it was held a week from now?

The Constitution does not allow a vacancy in the House to be filled except by election. It thus follows (particularly given how long it would have taken to get word out about a special election in the 18th century) that the framers of the Constitution understood that when a vacancy occurs in the House, there will be a period in which the people in a particular district will not have a representative in Congress.

[Angry Dragon]

30. but a year??

[onenote]

33. I should be held sooner, but the Constitution doesn't require it.

[PoliticAverse]

34. Their Senators? n/t

[Angry Dragon]

40. everyone gets 2 senators and a rep

[IADEMO2004]

10. Rat Fucked Again. Anyone see a pattern?

[dhill926]

11. Of course...

it’s how they play the game...

[FarCenter]

13. House vacancies cannot be filled by appointments - only by primary and election.

http://history.house.gov/Institution/Vacancies-Successors/Vacancies-Successors/

[DemRage]

16. So he is following that rule, but does he need to wait until the next election cycle to fill it?

Couldn't he call a special election to fill the seat before then? If not, who represents that district? Is that one less D vote until November?

[onenote]

23. Yes. Precedent suggests the vacancy could be filled by April.

In July 2012, a vacancy arose in the House when a member from Michigan resigned. The governor announced shortly thereafter that a special election would be held, with the primary date set for September (two months) and the election to fill the seat on November 6 (the same date as the general election). In other words, the process can be completed in four months.

[Angry Dragon]

32. same governor??

[onenote]

36. No. It actually was the Lt. Governor, who was a Republican

CORRECTION: THE LT. GOVERNOR THAT ANNOUNCED THE SPECIAL ELECTION TIMETABLE IN 2012 WAS A REPUBLICAN

The situation was bizarre -- as may be the one coming up.

The incumbent resigned in July 2012. On November 6, 2012, two elections were held for the same seat: one to fill the vacancy from November 6 until January 3, 2013 (when the new Congress is seated). And one to fill the seat for the two year term beginning January 3 2013.

The Democrat defeated the republican in the special election for the November - January period.
But that same republican, on the same day, WON the election for the two year term, defeating a different Democrat (who had won the primary to run in the election for the two year term).

Strange. But it suggests, but isn't clear, that there will be two elections for the same seat next November.

[Angry Dragon]

39. wikipedia says he has been governor since 2011

[onenote]

43. My mistake. The Lt. Governor who announced the 2012 timetable was a republican

He announced it rather than the Governor, because the Governor was out of state at the time. http://www.michigan.gov/snyder/0,4668,7-277--364541--,00.html

[Angry Dragon]

44. okay.........we both believe the election should be held sooner

[Chasstev365]

17. Well played Dems! And Farenthold stays in!

[OnDoutside]

20. With the high moral ground safely tucked in the back pocket....

[workinclasszero]

26. But..but...we are pure!

And down two no votes on the killing of social security/medicare and medicaid next year.

Everybody happy now?

[onenote]

28. Of course the special election should be held sooner

But when was the last time a vote in the House was decided by two votes?

In case you haven't noticed, the repubs have (and will continue to have at least until the November 2018 elections) a huge majority in the House.

[workinclasszero]

29. So lets give them even more votes?

No sale.

[onenote]

31. Like I said, it should be held sooner

But to the extent its suggested that having this vacancy until November will impact the outcome of anything that happens in the House -- that's a stretch.

[lostnfound]

48. Agreed. Could be advantage if it improves voter turnout in that general election for that district.

[RandiFan1290]

19. lol

[crazycatlady]

45. When's MI's primary

THat sounds like a good time to hold a special election without additional costs.

[onenote]

55. August. But you'd still have additional costs for a separate primary before August

If the special election to fill Conyers seat is held in august, it will save some costs, but there would still have to be a separate primary a few months before august to select the candidates who would be on the special election ballot in August.

[crazycatlady]

58. Or the partial term candidates can be selected by convention

There's a vacant PA seat right now where both parties selected their candidates by convention.

[onenote]

59. Would have to check Michigan law

As far as i know, Michigan chooses candidates through primaries.

[Leith]

50. After What Snyder Did to Flint

does anyone really think that he would consider a Black majority district (Detroit) not having a representative in the House anything to bother with? Snyder is leaving the seat open and denying the Democrats that one vote.

rethugs are cheap, conniving pigs.

[MichMan]

51. Turnout for a stand alone special election would be pitiful

While not having representation until then isn't ideal, at least turnout on a general election would be much better

[RandySF]

52. Taxation without representation

Who will constiuants turn to? Plus Dems are short another vote in the House (Conyers’ districts includes my home town).

[TDale313]

53. This is bullshit, but yes, Conyers needed to go.

This wasn’t the same as the Franken situation. These were staffers. People he was in a position of power over. Apparently hush money from the congressional slush fund was paid out. I am sad for what this does for his legacy and the price we all pay for this, but fuck anyone defending his behavior or saying he should be given a pass cause he’s our guy.

[MichMan]

54. Local Democratic official agrees with the decision

From the Detroit News

"Jonathan Kinloch, who chairs the Democratic Party in the 13th District, wanted Snyder to set the special election to coincide with the regularly scheduled election dates in August and November, even though it leaves the seat vacant for months. He said the district offices remain open to serve constituents in the meantime.

“This seat only becomes available once every 50 years,” Kinloch said this week. “We all know that in those special elections that are called outside the normal election cycle that voter turnout is less.”

[mopinko]

57. someone should tell them what happened in va.

[onenote]

60. The 2017 Virginia election was a normal cycle election for Virginia

And a statewide office election (Governor) always draws higher turnout than elections where there is no statewide (or federal) candidate.