General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRegarding Franken's resignation
Claiming he resigned of his own free will is a strategic play and I understand that.
I understand that it absolves, in some people's mind, the absolute bungling of this. They can always say (and they do) "I never asked him to resign".
Al Franken handled the charges against him with the utmost respect, humility, and maturity towards his accusers.
What's the lesson here?
Deny, deny, deny and fight like Hell. Might as well since you're not going to get a hearing if you go at this humbly.
Democratic leadership, in my opinion, has damaged the #MeToo movement by not waiting for an Ethics Committee investigation in his case to vet out this obvious hit job. An investigation by the way, that Al asked for.
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)This is the Democratic party at its worst.
bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)charliea
(260 posts)I was an independent voter for over 4 decades when I registered for the Democratic party in my state during 2016 to vote for Bernie in the primary. Easy to do when the other guys are a clown car with evil clowns in it. I stayed in when the vilest clown won, because Democrats supported American principles.
Today I replied to one of their myriad donation requests that principles matter, and a failure to grant innocence until proven guilty is intolerable, they won't get any more money from me. I'm back to being an Independent.
No, I will never be voting for Republicans, unless Teddy Roosevelt comes back, punches DJT's lights out and declares himself running for the Presidency again, but I won't support the Democratic party organization in general.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)People that can't tell the difference between one saying I have resigned and that in the coming weeks I will be resigning.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)dumbcat
(2,120 posts)We've yet to see.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)are two completely different things. And nowhere is this more true than in Washington DC.
rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)tblue37
(65,403 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)spooky3
(34,458 posts)she said she was satisfied with the apology and did not want him to resign. She may have also said she didnt think an investigation was necessarycant remember.
LakeArenal
(28,820 posts)LakeArenal
(28,820 posts)Paraphrasing: Q: Franken says he supports an ethics investigation and she said that McConnell was calling for that but not she.
That she accepted Franken's apology. Not, I want him to lose everything in a politically motivated smear job.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Cattledog
(5,915 posts)PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)Zero tolerance = zero common sense.
Zero tolerance = stupid outcomes.
Zero tolerance = unjust outcomes.
Zero tolerance = thoughtless cruelty.
There's nothing good about zero tolerance anything. How can people be so dumb?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and being shown to be, at best, forgetful.
At worst, a liar.
blimablam
(121 posts)PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)We lose elections because we're too nice to our Republican opponents.
We also lose because we aren't nice enough to each other, and we end up undermining our whole cause.
Like now.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)Zero tolerance backfires in most things... So many think it "simplifies" but it merely "stupifies".
A few years ago, my neighbor's 7 year old daughter--a straight A student and really polite (and fairly introverted), was expelled from school. Why? because she deigned to bring a two inch rounded butter knife to spread peanut butter & jelly on her bread, so that it wouldn't get soggy. She didn't think twice about dropping the tiny little spreading knife in her lunch bag and neither would I. But the school had a ZERO TOLERANCE policy towards "KNIVES" and technically this was a knife (in name only). Many $$$ of legal fees later and they prevailed against the school board with a very rational, yet highly annoyed judge.
So, while I don't mean to compare this disparate issue with that which we are facing as a nation re: sexual misbehavior/abuse, it does underscore the ridiculous extremes of policies designed never to make us (or anyone) think-- with no flexibility, no deviations.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)She was expelled from High School for fighting. One fight and permanent expulsion.
It was just after Columbine.
Oh yeah...And they brought every doodle in she made after they confiscated her school papers. Pot leaves and such as "evidence" of a juvenile delinquent to be tossed away.
It was a kangaroo court. It was pathetic.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)What ultimately happened to her? Was she eventually allowed back into the school? Was she allowed to transfer to a different school?
I never understood what happens after an expulsion. Do the kids just not get an education? Don't we have truant officers to make sure that all kids are in school because the law requires it?
SHRED
(28,136 posts)She was not allowed back but was allowed to take classes through the district offices and she completed her schooling and got her diploma.
She is 34 now with 3 kids and successful.
Thanks for asking.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)And congratulations on the 3 grandkids!!
tblue37
(65,403 posts)He was suspended for using the Pop Tart "like a gun. "
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)Like now, with Franken.
it has done serious damage to the metoo movement.
That we have threads here about emojis going to far is a clear indication of the damage it has done. We have senators now refusing to take pictures with people for fear of being accused of harassment. Was that really the intention here?
I am all for ousting people that are sexual predators. But I want to be damn sure we got it right. Destroying peoples careers without knowing the facts is wrong. I am aghast that our supposed leaders chose this path.
ebbie15644
(1,215 posts)I have been fighting every single day since the Orange Orangatang was elected. I've been giving money, what little I have, I've been calling and writing. They want us to fight but they won't fight for us. I'm done #NeverGillibrand. The only thing I will do now is vote on election day. I've unfollowed, unfriended everyone that is applauding or caused this to happen
tblue37
(65,403 posts)LakeArenal
(28,820 posts)Get rid of Lyin Ryan... Support Randy Bryce.
PatrickforO
(14,577 posts)the 58 House members who voted FOR articles of impeachment in spite of the weak position taken by Pelosi and Hoyer.
Those people have guts. They actually stand for something. They are actually doing something. They are fighting for what is right and moral and decent.
The 'zero tolerance' bunch? not so much.
rainin
(3,011 posts)FuzzyRabbit
(1,967 posts)How many Democrats have demanded that Republican Blake Farenthold resign? Are Democratss harder on their own than they are on Republicans?
world wide wally
(21,744 posts)drray23
(7,633 posts)Maybe if Roy Moore wins and gets seated , Franken should say that he is not resigned any more.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Not good to equate with Moore.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)questionseverything
(9,656 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Yes, I know, almost every adult woman has suffered some form of harassment or abuse, but if almost every adult woman is saying "me too" then it becomes so pervasive as to become meaningless. Pretty soon the cry of "me too" will evoke the response of "you and everyone else too," or "so what else is new?" And when nearly every adult male is accused of some form of harassment or abuse then the accusation loses all its meaning and just becomes "that thing that apparently all men do."
rainin
(3,011 posts)In politics, it isn't what you do, it's how confidently you lie. And don't stick your neck out. The enemies you make, may be on your own side.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... "He wouldn't have resigned if he wasn't guilty as sin."
I've also seen speculation, even here, that those who wanted Franken to resign "know something about him we don't know", so we should just defer to their more "knowledgeable" judgment.
Rock and a hard place. Franken was damned no matter what he said or did, mainly because his own party members threw him under the bus.
I think most of us would agree on a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to sexual misconduct within our party. However, those who called for Franken's resignation went instead to a "zero tolerance if someone is accused" policy.
I have been a devoted Democrat my whole adult life. I have defended my party against all comers. But this incident has really shaken me - and apparently I am not alone in that feeling.
FakeNoose
(32,645 posts)... that I think you're completely right about this.
I also hate the fact (actually it's a strong suspicion) that Roy Moore's election is already rigged and the GOP knows it. That's why they're jumping on board to back him all over again.
Last Friday was so great. Today sucks.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)and the millions of courageous victims who must be heard, believed and FINALLY validated...
The betrayal of Sen. Franken and the blatant denial of due process is as much of a problem for our party as any of the allegations, anonymous or supported by proves nothing pictures, against him.
In turning their backs on due process and vociferously preaching/reaching for the higher moral standards-Supposed to be seen as a meaningful and poignant comparison to a Republican Party (that HAS no morals and that doesnt give a holy crap)-they have seriously maimed the trust we as a party have placed in them to protect, defend and fight for the truth and personal accountability.
Some higher moral standard!
In denying him the chance to willingly, openly and honestly challenge these accusations and put his political fate in the hands of the ethics committee, they have damaged our faith in their ability to lead.
They have damaged MY faith anyway. And I am certainly not alone in my anger.
BaileyBill
(171 posts)First, I suppose I should introduce myself. A long-time lurker, I survived the nineties and oughts in red-state Texas on a diet of Buzzflash and Bartcop. Discovered DU and became an instant addict, hooking many family and friends in the process.
Retired from law enforcement for the state several years ago after also working at the VA and as a drug/alcohol counselor. Have a masters and completed everything but a dissertation for a doctorate in psychology. Now live on the family farm with Elvis (he aint nothin but a hound dog), a cat, 2 kittens, and 30 grass-fed cows. (And yes, I understand the environmental implications, but we try to convert as much land as possible to wetlands, woodlands and native grasses. Still, would not be able to pay taxes and hold on to the place without the agricultural exemption, and I failed at growing asparagus.)
I am so white that I glow in the dark, but my gorgeous grandkids mix black, white and Hispanic in a magical way. Wife passed 3 ½ years ago.
Never a real firebrand, although my wife and I did spend some time supporting Cindy Sheehan in Crawford, TX. I became more active in the Party after retirement. Am now a Precinct Chair and Communications Chair for the County Party and have been a delegate to the State Democratic Conventions.
About half of our locals supported Bernie, the other half Hillary, but after the nomination we all worked our tails off for Clinton. Phone calling, door knocking, letters to the editor and op-eds in the local papers, ads we designed and produced locally and printed in the local rags. And we got creamed, to the tune of something like 85% to 15%. God bless rural Texas.
Battered and bloody, Nov. 8, 2016 was a terribly depressing day. But we picked ourselves up and resumed the fight. We have an active Indivisible chapter (Elvis is an enthusiastic protester, barking out the chants), and continue to write and tweet and fight in whatever way we can. For the first time in years, we even have candidates for many of the local state and federal races.
And this week, for the first time ever, I am tempted to say to hell with it all.
Zero Tolerance is now the elixir that is being foisted upon us by Sen. Gillibrand and her merry band. Grab the moral high ground, show how much better we are.
But Zero Tolerance is the concept that the right has used to destroy generations of school kids, mostly minority. The stats on the difference in rates of students facing discipline, suspension or alternative placement between minorities and whites are both staggering and frightening. And they are no accident.
And Zero Tolerance is the concept that the right has used to destroy generations of young people in the War on Drugs, again primarily minority. The criminal justice stats on the difference in rates of arrests, charges, sentences and incarcerations between minorities and whites are both mind-boggling and depressing. And they are no accident.
So, now lets give the Republicans another area in which they can use Zero Tolerance to bash and decimate us. Because Zero Tolerance never has and never will apply to wealthy, white Republicans. And in this case, we are using it to destroy one of our own without Republicans having to lift a finger.
Respectfully, but loudly, I call bullshit. No, we do not have to believe the women. We do have to believe the evidence.
Evidence from a political foe can be valid, but the standard of proof is and should be higher. Same for anonymous sources. Same for those with ulterior motives or the possibility of financial gain.
As so many of you have pointed out, Sen. Franken admitted only to a tasteless joke that was photographed and that was twisted into a blanket confession by, okay, pretty much everyone. The evidence for any of the other allegations was see-through thin and often anonymous, and sometimes from political opponents who, for some reason, wanted a picture with Al.
While I am not a boot-licker for the military, I do find some of their traditions honorable and enlightening. Leaving no one behind, for example. In this case, we had a comrade who was wounded, not even dead. And I guess you could say we didnt just leave him behind, we formed a squad to go back and shoot him ourselves.
It may be that every allegation about Sen. Franken was valid and righteous. We may never know, except for the possibility that people like Jan Levinson will keep doing the medias job for them. But with the contrast between the treatment of Sen. Franken and Sen. Menendez, with the self-serving grandstanding by Sen. Gillibrand and the rest, the possibility that the motives of the Democrats who abandoned Sen. Franken were benevolent and pure is, to me, almost nil.
So, I hope to hang around here and maybe vent, get a little support, and perhaps get a bit of mojo back. I hate to think of surrendering this country to the forces of selfishness and greed, but for the first time I am beginning to wonder if there really is a significant difference between the two parties, and whether my heretofore enthusiastic participation makes me complicit. I always thought, if nothing else, Democrats put fairness first.
(Please be patient, this is my first time on chat or forums. Made my first text a couple of months ago, so I am trying. Just read on a thread what kick and rec. mean, but not sure I really get it. Still no clue what n/t is. Looking forward to someday using an emoji.)
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)Thank you for the work you are doing in TX! I understand and share your feelings. Right now, the ousting of Franken is giving me flashbacks to how Dems completely rolled over on ACORN. Both actions were wrong and harmed the party IMO. My current feelings are, if they treat their friends and allies like this, why do I want to be their friend and ally? I'm pissed off right now and am sure I will calm down eventually and look at the greater good..... but for now, this clip of the Jeff Daniel's speech keeps going through my head: "Do you know why people don't like liberals? Because they lose. If liberals are so fuckin' smart, how come they lose so Goddamn always?"
n/t is no text - I think it might be more habit and hold over from dial up days. We used to post n/t in the headline if everything we had to say was in the headline and nothing in the body. It saved time opening the comment to see what else was written.
populistdriven
(5,644 posts)At this moment my coon-hound is sleeping at my feet. We all live in a grey area, whether we admit it or not so Z.T. is artificial, fake, delusional, irrational, cruel, short-sighted, blind-vengeance and ultimately self-harming. However, I am hopeful that this is not Z.T. but a new & lasting paradigm and Senator Franken's self sacrifice was to fight for us.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)And welcome to DU!!
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Go ahead use an emoji or click on the smiles box , up to your far right, between the reply title and message text and there is stuff like this
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)Welcome to the Madhouse
dalton99a
(81,515 posts)Great post