Eugene Robinson asks a scary question

[babylonsister]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/7/1722344/-Eugene-Robinson-asks-a-scary-question


Eugene Robinson asks a scary question
By teacherken
Thursday Dec 07, 2017 · 9:03 PM EST


in his Washington Post column for Friday, whose title is the question, What if Mueller catches Trump — and it isn’t enough?

Here are his opening two paragraphs:

We need to prepare for the eventuality that the Mueller probe catches President Trump, family members and associates red-handed — and Republicans in Congress refuse to do anything about it.

This is beginning to look like a possible or even probable outcome. With a cravenness matched only by its arrogance, the GOP is Trump’s party now. It no longer has any claim to be Lincoln’s.

And before I proceed on this line, let me add some relevant breaking news:

Link to tweet

snip//

And now I return to Robinson, to his final paragraph, which contains a stark warning:

The Trump presidency poses a challenge beyond politics or policy. Wrongheaded trickle-down tax policy is a matter of arithmetic; it can be corrected by moving numbers around a spreadsheet. But once corruption has become established, it takes herculean effort to root it out; once respect for the rule of law is lost, it takes generations to restore.

We are seeing a massive expansion of corruption. It is political to be sure. It is also financial, given the actions being taken in tax policy, in rolling back environmental protections, and so on.

It is becoming a truly frightening time on this 76th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor.

And as I finish, Rachel is telling people that the Judge in the Flynn case is now recused from the case, but we do not yet know why.

[JI7]

1. but things will surely improve with Al Franken out of the Senate.

[dalton99a]

15. +1

[zentrum]

22. ++1

[mountain grammy]

48. Yeah, right.

[peequod]

70. But the lovehandle touching...

...and the old sight gags, and the RIBOFLAVIN! (in the voice of the Nutty Professor).

[appal_jack]

76. The neutralization of Franken was step 1 toward neutralizing Mueller

Mark my words: Vladimir Putin plays decades-long chess, and the Dems (Schumer, Gillibrand, and Harris especially, but all of them really) are playing tiddly-winks.

-app

[Honeycombe8]

89. Thank God they at least got rid of HIM! He could've taken the whole country down!

[Vinca]

2. Gene makes a good point.I can't imagine Mueller not finding money laundering at the very least.

But a Congress with a GOP majority is going to do nothing about it. No one is above the law so can he be charged with crimes at the same time he's in office? One way or another he's got to go. Democrats have to win in 2018.

[Cyrano]

3. We'd have to win both the house and senate

otherwise, the Republicans will be able to protect him from impeachment and/or conviction.

If we don't win them both, we could be stuck with Trump 'til 2020. And given what he and the Republicans have done to the country in one year, there will be nothing left to salvage in another three years.

[Hortensis]

32. The pubs are in trouble, and we very possibly will.

But if we don't, we don't. Horrible prospect, but I already live with the reality that the huge threat we must defeat is the extremist right-wing funders who've filled government with their people, including Trump's cabinet.

The Trump danger is mostly military. Get rid of him and Pence or Ryan will control the football, but the dismantling of the systems our republic must have to function and the transfer of wealth and power to a ruling class, and possibly to religious extremists, will speed up dramatically.

[Honeycombe8]

92. I don't know. It was looking good before they fired Franken. Now there are a lot of ticked off Dems.

Very ticked off. Maybe they'll forget by next year. I won't. I never forget things like that. I can still recite almost every bad thing said or done by husband 35 years ago. I remember injustices.

[Hortensis]

99. Don't mistake the mix here for typical of Democrats.

DUers follow political news, of all qualities from excellent to trash, but we follow.

Most Democrats do not consistently or in any depth, and definitely aren't passionate about day-to-day details. Those who do follow the news a bit mostly don't read it but instead watch TV network news, and as you know there's very little information there between commercials.

Cable news is for the immersers, but as you can see from below very few Americans, 4.8M out of 200M registered voters, watch cable news. Good thing because, on testing of knowledge of their world, cable viewers test appallingly low.

Pew: 2016: In prime time, combined average viewership for the three major news channels (CNN, Fox News and MSNBC) increased by 55% to 4.8 million viewers.

And here's the other, BIG thing about DU: The number of passionate lefters who gather here, the type who tend to see the Democratic Party as too conservative/not left enough, too unprincipled, too "establishment," too corrupt, whatever, is far larger than "out there."

They go on social media to find people who share their feelings.

As for the current partisan firestorm you've brought up, let's touch base with the Democratic base for a moment: Most Dems remember Franken best from SNL and now have heard only that Sen. Franken's been accused of sexual misbehavior, has been asked to resign, and will resign. By far most do not know that over 2/3 of his 45 colleagues in the senate asked him to resign. They don't care enough about the details to know that.

So passionate lefties are really going to have a hard time trying to get the typical Democrats around them outraged at this "proof" that a majority of our Democratic senators are stupid and devoid of principle, much less gain sympathy for the idea of leaving the party over this "betrayal." Most typical Dems are just going to think his colleagues had their reasons for asking Franken to resign and move on to talking about Christmas shopping, if they're in the mood, Roy Moore.

[Honeycombe8]

106. This is all over social media. And the subject of an SNL skit and other skits.

It's not cable news that is the primary spreading of the being irked by this.

But even those who are angry...even those will forget by next year. That's why Trump gets away with lies and twisting his past: People believe what you say, and forget the past.

I know I'm unusual in this respect. I remember injustices forever. I remember being outright angry...forever. I'm one of those. So I won't forget.

But the question is: Do I not vote next year? Vote for another candidate? I don't know yet. If there were an election now, I wouldn't vote, I think.

[Hortensis]

107. Don't imagine exposure to mentions of something translates into

passionate belief. You imagine you're a bit different because you remember injustices forever, but we all do that. Those stick.

But most of us see, or just suspect, a lot of varied factors and situations too complex to leap to outrage. Over 2/3 of the people who call him Al and work and socialize with him have asked him to resign. We suspect there must be various reasons among all these peopleand hold off leaping to outrage.

I know I wonder why you would to throw 32 Democratic colleagues under the bus out of passionate support of one, without even learning why each of them have acted as they did. What did they do to make you think so incredibly poorly of them and is that based on their actions or is it something born within you? Could there conceivably be injustice in what you are doing?

As for your voting, right now the Republicans are
* dismantling progressive democratic government systems it took 200 years to develop,
* have no plans to refund the Children's Health Insurance Programs,
* are dismantling the ACA and planning the same for the VA, Social Security, and Medicare,
* are leaving Puerto Rico to die,
* are kidnapping people from churches and schools and putting them in detention camps,
* are canceling net neutrality so the internet can be better used to control us,
* are taking many, many other evil actions they know 330 million people don't want, and
* are even making their dark-money investments in destroying democracy tax deductible.

You decide what you should do. If we're worse, vote Republican and study up on rules for surviving on limited means in an authoritarian state. (#1--shut your mouth.)

If we're just as bad, or so bad it just doesn't matter, maybe go dig a hole and fill it in over you because that means it could never have been, and never will be, good under such as us?

Can't figure it out? Maybe look right and get outraged at the enormous injustices committed daily by Republicans?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Even if we won them both it takes 67 votes to convict and remove a president from office.

[certainot]

43. the party of lincoln i snow the party of limbaugh and sooner dems figure that out the better

roy moore proves they won't be able to do anything if they want to - because they're afraid to be named by limbaugh and the local talk radio gods.

for a year, since innauguration, 1500 radio stations have been working for the kremlin/trump and setting the stage to enable republican reps to deny the facts and blame the 'deep' state obama clinton fbi cabal and dems have no clue. nixon didn't have 300 blowhards screaming lies in his defense to 50 mil people a week.

roy moore is proof the difference isn't money and corporate media - it's talk radio with fox bringing up the rear. if dems want to win big in 2018 all they have to do is stop ignoring talk radio. taking down the talk radio monopoly would give dems supermajorities in 2018.

[CrispyQ]

52. Just yesterday a DUer wrote that hate radio isn't the problem

cuz people don't listen to radio anymore. I think the dems think that, too. And I don't know a lot of city people who listen to radio. Maybe in their car on the way to work, but not at breakfast, lunch, & throughout the day, like we did when I was a kid living on a farm. Rural people listen to the radio a lot. For weather, crop & commodities reports, community news, like farm & equipment sales.

[Thor_MN]

59. And commuting to town for work.

The more rural you are, the longer your drive to a job in town. If you work outside, you are more likely to listen to radio while doing it. FM radio works well in cities, its shorter wavelengths bend around steel structures better. But it is much shorter range than AM radio, where hate radio rules. Rural areas listen to AM radio and are fed a steady diet of religion and hate talk.

[Dustlawyer]

60. This has been my point as well. Texas has thousands of miles where you can only get 1-2 stations

and they both carry RW talk. t is the only thing to listen to. The owners of the stations son't care about profit, it is all about propaganda!

[certainot]

66. 40 states with 80 senators are dominated by rw radio. here's some simple math

that might help convince the fools:

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 5days/wk = $75,000/wk x 1200 stations republican talk radio is worth $18MIL/day or 390MIL$ /month or 4.68 BIL$/ year FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican free market deregulation and wall st think tank propaganda, swiftboating of good citizens, attacks on public education and teachers, passing voter suppression legislation, trying to repeal obamacare, killing net neutrality, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

let them think about that the next time they whine about money in politics and corporate media......

many also believe the rw talking points about the 95% monopoly reflecting the market demand for rw talk radio - as if 95% of people who would listen to talk radio in their cars, at work, etc., prefer the ignorance, lies , racism, etc of limbaugh and hannity..... that's an insult to americans.

fact is it's a subsidized and protected mom and pop vs walmart media monopoly and classic military style PSYOPS.

and if it reflects market demand, why is iheart/clearchannel $20 BIL in debt? the right will gladly lose a few bil for trillions in deregulation and tax breaks....

and i suspect many of the 'intelligentsia' leading the dem party and the progressive orgs and media might as well be studying fish without water because of their incredible ignorance of what just kicked our ass.

fucking idiots.

[Sophia4]

74. We need liberal radio EVERYWHERE.

Here in Los Angeles, we have KPFK. It's Pacifica Radio, listener sponsored.

[certainot]

80. here's how americans can destroy the monopoly and open up a lot more stations

here are a few things people can do:

to start, dems and media and political scientists need to be encouraged to poll trump support for talk radio. too much analysis ignores the fact that this is actually the talk radio president and most of putin’s trolling piggybacked it. i’ll bet it shows the closest association outside of ‘white’, and that will help establish it as a major factor.

monitor it —  should be easier now to automate recording and transcribing the main rw talkers so people can search and study the patterns and repetition. if all of a sudden there’s a spike in, say the word ‘iran’ or ‘mueller’ or ‘deep state’, etc, it probably means something. knowing about it before  it becomes reality means not always having to play catch up

credit it —  trump needs a RUSH tattoo on his forehead, as do all republican pols and media hacks. they all ride the talk radio bandwagon and feed from the daily smorgasbord of talking points and excuses. dems in media could accurately preface answers to republican media hacks and politicians with “that’s what limbaugh says but...”

investigate it —  how long has putin been using it? did they find a way to feed limbaugh and coordinate with him and others? are any of them being paid  freelance money? exposing the talk radio gods as tools, especially russian tools, would help. Trump guy Sam Nunberg analyzed 1000s of hrs of RW radio & reported to Trump in 2014. to coordinate with Russian ops?

‘thank’ all local businesses that advertise on RW radio stations —  thank them for trump, trumpcare, global warming, privatization of public education, voter suppression, deregulation, tax breaks for billionaires, etc. it’s easy and fun to listen to a few minutes here and there and get a few  email addresses for thank-you notes that can get to the boss/owners.

protest it —   include the radio stations in any progressive protests —  they may  be better places to protest than capitols —  politicians and media will notice.

and to combine a few of those, push the 88 universities that endorse 257 limbaugh stations to stop crapping on their mission statements and start  looking for apolitical alternatives to broadcast sports on —  maybe their political science faculties and students can start studying the most dominant political factor in the US the last 30 years. people need to wonder why the unis should drop rw radio. it will start a discussion, gop will freak out, media will notice, and advertisers will flee.

[7962]

68. I listen to satellite. Rush and his ilk aren't on. They do have left/right channels though

But they're not as bloviating as the radio guys

[PatrickforO]

72. You are kidding! Millions of people listen to talk radio at least during their commute.

My cousin actually as a shower radio so he doesn't have to miss a single hate-filled minute of xenophobia. In fact, he voted for Trump IN SPITE of all the sexual harassment, Russia, and all the rest because he said Trump is the only one who will 'save us from all the harm illegal immigration is doing.'

When I asked him to be a bit more specific about what 'harm' that was, he couldn't, but stubbornly kept to his guns. You know why? Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, Mike Rosen and the rest of the post-Fairness-Doctrine hatemongers.

But, hey, with Franken finally out of the Senate, I'm sure everything is going to be hunky-dory.

[GoCubsGo]

4. I'm not at all surprised by the House "Ethics" Committee clearing Nunes.

They protect their own and cover up for them, instead of throwing them under the bus over questionable allegations, like the Dems do.

As for Robinson's fear that "it won't be enough", I'm not worried about that. I'm watching how Trump and his party are shitting their pants. They are obviously running scared. I think we're going to find out that it's all way bigger than we realize, rather than "not enough."

[former9thward]

81. The House Ethics Committee is equal Republicans and Democrats.

So your slur against the committee applies equally to the Democrats on the committee.

[Honeycombe8]

90. Well, let's research that and see what we can find out. nt

[Honeycombe8]

91. I found that the Committee actually deferred to intel.

“The committee will take no further action and considers this matter closed,” the ethics panel’s chairwoman, Susan Brooks (R-Ind.), and ranking Democrat, Ted Deutch (D-Fla.), wrote in a statement announcing the panel’s decision. They noted that the committee deferred entirely to intelligence community experts in making its determination about the classification of the materials and that members did not weigh in on that question.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/intelligence-chairman-devin-nunes-cleared-of-wrongdoing-in-house-ethics-probe/2017/12/07/b607b1e2-dba7-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?utm_term=.39855282ef6d

and...

“I am also concerned by public statements made by four of the Ethics Committee’s five Democrats that appeared to prejudge this matter before they began investigating the complaint," Nunes said. "I therefore call on the Ethics Committee to publicly release all its transcripts related to my case."

That committee has a troubling history with ethics concerns of its own. It's not likely to return a violation against a Republican. It stalled on Tom DeLay for a long time, and when it finally did rebuke him, one of the key Republicans removed 3 people from the panel (as punishment, I guess).

A committee was formed, in fact, to investigate the committee for congressional violations. So, it's not surprising that it wouldn't return any violation against Nunes or any Republican. It would have been a surprise if it had.

Going with papers in hand in the dead of night to share committee info with the White House? That wasn't considered unethical. Only something he said to the press the next day. And there you have it.

[GoCubsGo]

100. My "slur"? LOL!!!

No. As Honecombe8's post above points out, I am spot on.

[former9thward]

108. You are ignoring the role of Democrats on the committee.

Any action the committee takes has to have Democratic support as well as Republican support. Its simple math.

[bluestarone]

110. Right on and the proof is

we won't even know who these Dems on the committee are!! (or am i wrong on this?) COVERUP!!!

[tetedur]

5. Call it what it is: Corporatism/Fascism

The majority of the people do not want a Tax Reform Bill that will further enrich the rich, burden the middle class more and abandon the poor. Congress will pass this legislation. This is not Democracy. This is not a representative Republic. Congress does not care what the people want. Congress does not care what is best for the country.

We are in it. We have been slipping into darkness for over fifty years and we have arrived.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

8. Of course this is a "representative Republic" . . .

If "Congress does not care what the people want," and yet "the people" continue to send such representatives to Washington to act in such a fashion, just who bears the responsibility for that?

[tomp]

35. And does anyone think the dems...

...have the desire to change this. If one does think that, one hasn't been paying attention.

[CrispyQ]

50. Agreed.

The dems are complicit in this mess, too, by not being a true opposition party for 40 years, but don't dare point that out or you'll be called a leftist or a purist.

[pbmus]

67. I call it the kkk...

Kleptocratic kakistrophic klusterf...

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. FYI Here's a Democrat running for Nunes' seat.

Time to mobilize!

https://www.andrewjanzforcongress.com/

[calimary]

62. Kicking for THIS post.

[Ferrets are Cool]

7. I've been pondering this very question for some time now.

And there is a huge possibility that it will not be enough.

[Duppers]

12. Been the major topic of conversation

In this household ever since Shitgibbon Inc. stole the election.

[kentuck]

9. Nothing will be done so long as Republicans are in charge of the House.

It is highly doubtful much will be done even if the Democrats are in charge. That is the world we now live in. Unfortunately.

[notdarkyet]

19. Unless mueller indicts or arrests a bunch of GOP congress critters first.

We know their are some that took russian money. Get rid of enough to change the majorities. Why can't dems have their own investigation like the republicans are doing on Clinton? Why can't we charge them with crimes?

[brush]

30. I'm not sure nothing will be done. If trump is incriminated and Congress refuses to act...

IMO people won't stand for it and will take to the streets in multi cities, and it won't be a one-day event like the women's march.

The fate of the republic will be at stake.

People still have a say and will express it. What's even more dangerous is that the deplorables will take to the streets as well. Violent clashes are a real possibility.

Right wing militia v Antifa, National Guard in the streets.

We're moving towards dangerous territory.

[BigmanPigman]

75. I am relying on the NY and Baltimore AGs to nail both Jared

and the Fucking Moron. Pardons won't help them there!

[Duppers]

10. ONLY if they fear their constituents ...

Won't reelect their sorry asses but that's unlikely from what I'm hearing from BubbaLand. These fools are totally brainwashed.

It's a very bad omen but quite likely.

Is there a word for being furious yet frightened at the same time?

What the F will we do?? The republic will be over; our democracy will be thrown into the trash pile of history.

If only our Dem Congress critters 30 yrs ago had had the foresight and chutzpah
shown by Al Franken we would not be in this situation. A Democratic administration's FCC would've yanked Fox's license not long after their lying hate broadcast began.

[mazzarro]

21. Is there a word for being furious yet frightened at the same time?

Not that I know of but may I suggest FUrightened?

[Duppers]

24. I like it.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

98. 😪. n/t

[SWBTATTReg]

11. absolute power corrupts...

[bucolic_frolic]

13. Then it will be tried in the court of public opinion and at the ballot box

No substitute for taking Congress in 2018, but it's a tall order.

There are always state charges too

[AJT]

27. Gerrymandering. In WI the districts are set up to have to have

a 20% voting shift.......nearly impossible.

[lutherj]

14. Prosecutors can indict people around Trump, including Kushner and Pence. Once out of office

Trump could be indicted as well. If his successor issues a pardon to Trump then New York State attorney general Schneiderman can still prosecute. I never expected impeachment. What’s more likely is that Trump becomes such a huge liability to the Republicans that they push him out with the 25th amendment. But that would alienate Trump’s base and splinter the party. I think what’s most likely is that Republicans will slowly go down with the ship while looting everything they can. After the midterms all the dirty little rats will start scampering.

[Duppers]

16. That's optimistic.

At the moment I don't trust this country to be that intelligent.

[mazzarro]

23. Agree 100% - n/t

[lutherj]

34. Unfortunately Im lousy at predicting the future. Actually I wasnt asserting that

the Democrats would necessarily take back the house or the senate. Even if we did we still wouldn’t get a two thirds vote in the senate for impeachment. When I say “after the midterms” it’s just a matter of timing. As the current administration starts to wind down Republicans will start to distance themselves from Trump.

I don’t see much optimism in what I posted. The ship that’s going down isn’t just the Trump administration, it’s also the country.

[Duppers]

39. Thanks...you're right here.

I don't even think he'll be removed with the 25th. My only hope for justice is Mueller or NY state AG Schneiderman.

[lutherj]

54. Exactly. N/t

[yardwork]

17. Well, obviously the Republicans won't do anything. That's why we need to get a Democratic majority.

[mn9driver]

18. The reality is that they do not care.

The republicans that remain in the party are no longer rational people. Mueller could indict Trump with photographic evidence that he killed JFK, Marilyn Monroe and Mother Theresa and it would not matter.

Nothing will happen to Trump no matter what crimes he has committed. Only those who oppose him can be pushed out of office with no evidence. This is the new America.

[mazzarro]

26. Trumpf himself was prescient about this during the campaign

When he said that he could stand in the middle of a busy New York street and shoot somebody and still not loose his supporters.

[MustLoveBeagles]

82. That's one of the only times he's told the truth

[wallyworld2]

20. It is possible that the republicans will not do their job

It will be a nasty blow to democracy or the end of it.

What it means is that we come to grips to what the republicans have become.

Don't get wrapped up in what they did.

But get wrapped up in a massive voter turn out.

Support local progressive candidates.

Get out and vote.

Take our local governments back.

It's not what they did, it's what we will do, that matters.

Forget the convincing the nutcases they need to change.

We do not have time for that.

Inspire those who will listen.

We gotta vote, we have a platform.

Let's push it.

Our democracy can't be dependent solely on Mueller or the outcome of his investigation.

[Guilded Lilly]

25. With the permeating infection of soulless thugs in the Republican Congress and

Statewide gerrymandering, billionaire bros and co., etc., yeah , frighteningly, Robinson has a very valid point. And never forget, Russia.

When men without morals, men without decency, men without an ounce of human compassion and integrity have obscene money and power, the outlook can be devastating.

Before these men drenched and soaked bone-deep in treachery die out (so far they cannot buy immortality) and become fodder for worms, a whole helluva lot of suffering and fighting will happen. They are legally making it much easier to pass their infected brains, money and agendas on to younger generations of men before they quit breathing and rot away.

Our war against them is going to be ...well I can’t even think of the words...before humanity triumphs, or at least maims them enough to hold them down under the rocks they should live under.

We need more fierce leaders with the same defiant, steely determination of the scores of millions of everyday “resisters”, but with more immediate power. Backbone, loyalty....fucking support for processes we still have in place to get to the truth and strengthen our “decency” core to shield us from multitudes of diversions.

Many of those diversions are serious stand alone issues and essential battles with massive generation and gender impact (#MeToo). Some diversions involve defending the literal earth we walk on and air we breathe. Some threaten our children and the strong health we need to fight their battles as well as our own.

And then there is the purposeful enabling of The Stupid to contend with daily.

Nothing about this insidious war is going to be in the least bit easy. Screw ups will be exploited brutally.

Sadly, this week was not a notch in the win column for our “Force”. That really sucked. It was in the same life-disbelief-wtf column as election night though further down the hideous list.

It is nightmarish to have to wait while things outside of our daily control are going down behind the scenes. It is enough to give us all literal heart attacks realizing that these findings just may not be enough. Dumbfounding, but nothing so far about the abject indecency and moronic ignorance of the Cretin has made enough of a difference.

Yet.
Yet.
Herculean, yup.
Goddess strength, oh, hell, yeah.
But it hasn’t stopped us, yet.
The eventual success will be ten times as satisfying as the agony is debilitating.

RESIST REPLENISH REVOLT

[Duppers]

42. 👍

You said it so well!

[Guilded Lilly]

61. Thank-you, Duppers!

[Bleacher Creature]

28. That's why 2018 could our last chance. NT

[Orrex]

29. With due respect to Robinson, people on DU have been asking that for months.

Many of us have more or less concluded that no crime is sufficient to force this GOP Congress to act against Trump. Witness the easy enthusiasm with which they've embraced Moore.

So where does that leave us?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Up "Shit's Creek"?... We need to start paddlin'.

[yuiyoshida]

31. I have thought all along that if Trump and family are

are proven guilty, even of Collusion, I felt like the Republican party will probably ignore it and go on like nothing has happened. This is the level of Corruption that exists in the house and senate now that Republicans are the majority.

[ewagner]

33. The ugly reality...

is found in this part of Robinson's piece:

This is beginning to look like a possible or even probable outcome.

[kentuck]

36. Republicans are so incompetent ...

...they can barely wipe their asses.

We should not expect them to do anything for our people or our country.

[ewagner]

41. I am getting depressed...

I have always believed (and in ~40 years of public service) I have always practiced and supported the ability of government to "do the right thing" when impropriety of any kind came to the surface. I always believed that the mechanisms are/were in place to root out corruption and, quite literally, return the "ship of state" to a safe course....

Between Bush, Trump, Grover Norquist, the Koch Brothers, Scott Walker (Koch Bros on steroids) individual systems of government have been destroyed.

The only backstop left is the voting booth and Walker and Trump are still trying to rig that permanently!

That's depressing!

[kentuck]

45. the power of propaganda cannot be exaggerated.

FOX News and a few loudmouths have the capability to destroy everything, in my opinion.

My hope is that we can hang on to the next election and give the people a chance to save themselves. If they do not, all bets are off.

We should all be depressed.

[ewagner]

46. ...

[babylonsister]

84. How true and sad. nt

[MineralMan]

37. That is entirely possible, and even likely.

We MUST focus our attention on the 2018 midterm elections. Nothing else is as important.

[ewagner]

44. Agree and add....

the 2018 mid-terms may be our last chance to save our county...

I think Trump and the Repubs know that and that is why they desperately want to create more impediments to voting and registration....

We are living in dangerous times.

[kentuck]

47. Those that do not see the danger...

..are whistling past the graveyard.

[Heartstrings]

63. I keep posting the "focus on midterms" here on du

and, for the most part, it's ignored.

If we don't get the voters out and flip a few, we're done. Period....

[MineralMan]

64. Yes. I do, too. And with the same results.

It's not encouraging.

[Heartstrings]

65. No, very disheartening....

But I will continue.....

[OnDoutside]

38. I've been warning about this for ages. There's no guarantee of a just outcome. What would help is

people taking to the streets of America to protest....build it up. AND plague the offices of every Rep Congressman and Senator. Make them feel like the rats they are.

[NoMoreRepugs]

40. Ignorance of a large part of the American public

coupled with the Caspar Milktoast leadership of our party gives me very little hope going forward.

[CrispyQ]

51. I've slowly come to this realization the past few weeks.

Our government has been hijacked by people who believe it should serve them, not The People. I no longer feel confident that we'll get our government back. I see so much complacency in my friends & family - people who were not political before, but were all fired up after the Con's inauguration. Now they are disengaged again, suffering from outrage fatigue. Yesterday one of my hiking friends said, "Please, let's not even mention politics on this hike."

[Still In Wisconsin]

53. TRUMP being elected forced the Republicans to answer an existential question:

How high a cost is worth paying in order to win?

They have arrived at an answer, as evidenced by their embracing of Roy Moore: winning as a party is worth ANY cost.

[librechik]

55. Trump doesn't respect the law or the electorate. He stole it, proudly.

And we can do nothing against a president willing to throw away our democracy and replace it with hate and lawlessness. Really.

[dlk]

56. The R Now Stands for RICO

It's become clear, the Republicans are here to pillage and plunder our country, while laughing all the way to the bank. It's not just Trump who is "a clear and present danger" to our democracy.

[Thor_MN]

57. The Party of Lincoln was assassinated by the Party of Trump?

They haven't been the Party of Lincoln since the 1930s, when the parties essentially exchanged identities. However, Trump does personify the ugliness of the current GOP.

[7962]

69. I just don't think its going to come to that. I'm doubting that theres going to be a huge revelation

I'm beginning to think the investigation is going to come up with a bunch of petty stuff and no smoking gun of immense relevance. Trump is such a child that if he was worried about a big shoe dropping, he'd be making HUGE mistakes right now trying to hide or deflect info.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

71. Earlier this week Terry Gross interviewed Jeffrey Toobin

about the Mueller investigation.

Here's a link to the transcript of the show. http://wwno.org/post/will-mueller-investigation-unearth-crime-legal-reporter-says-its-complicated

But here's the crucial conclusion, which comes at the very end:

So I think, you know, yes, it is an interesting theoretical constitutional question about whether Donald Trump or any president can be indicted. But I think the far more likely outcome of the Mueller investigation is a report to Congress where he essentially dumps the whole problem in Congress's lap and says, this is up to you if you want to impeach. If you do, help yourself. If you don't, help yourself. But that, I think, is both legally, politically and prudentially the right approach for an outside counsel like Mueller.

Given the way the entire Mueller thing is poking along, I think that it's naive to believe that Trump will be brought down, laid low, removed from office. At least not until and unless Democrats get a large majority next year in both houses of Congress. And given the ineptitude of so many in the Democratic Party and especially in the leadership (the railroading of Al Franken being only the most recent example) I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for that.

[jimlup]

73. I actually think this is the most likely outcome

The Republican's are deep deep deep into this Faustian bargain.

The only real solution to the orange nightmare is the ballot both 2018 and 2020. And we could lose both as they will cheat as they always do. We have no option but to overwhelm them with numbers so massive their cheating can't hide it.

[CentralMass]

77. teacherken thats a name i haven't heard in a long time

[mchill]

78. I've assumed this will be the outcome

and sadly, I didn't even flinch

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

79. I think the relationship between Trump and the Republicans is misunderstood

As Charles Murray explains it, Trump is a "murder weapon". The Republican's don't really like Donald Trump, they aren't personally invested in him and almost certainly would not have invited him into their homes. He is just a big dumb bomb with which they can blast holes into the American institutions they wish to undermine.

As long as Trump delivers angry white assholes to the polls and doesn't meaningfully obstruct the Republican intelligentsia's agenda they're going to put up with him.

Republicans I know and consider to be house broken don't care about the Russia issue, they don't defend it or discount it, they don't argue the issue at all, they don't care. All they care about is getting another two or three Republican ayatollahs on the supreme court and Trump is by no means an impediment to that.

[oasis]

83. At least no second term. With the added bonus of shedding Pence. nt

[Awsi Dooger]

85. Multiple damning videos might not be enough

But that's the only thing with any chance whatsoever. Trump will waltz beyond anything else and proclaim it was nothing but a witch hunt, no matter the avalanche of evidence.

He knew what he was talking about with that 5th Avenue remark. It applies to congress as well as his base.

Rachel does a nice nightly program but she has zero comprehension of what it would require for anything to stick to Donald Trump. Likewise with many otherwise well meaning posters here. They continue to think and reference in historical terms when none of that means anything.

[McCamy Taylor]

86. This is the question Dems will be asking all the way to the Nov 2018 polls.

Will it be enough?

[RealityChik]

87. I have begun to wonder about that too.

Nixon was ousted by a Democratic Congress, wasn't he? It is entirely possible that the outcome may have been different with a republican congress in power. That's also probably why the Iran-Contra investigation failed to nail all the guiltiest players, and Reagan never got impeached or was forced to resign.

It's a sick feeling, especially on the heels of the Franken lynching. There sure has been a world of hurt this week. You keep thinking it couldn't possibly get any worse, and some how it does. How many times can the Dems keep shooting themselves in the foot? Eventually they're gonna blow that foot right off (if they haven't done that already)!

[babylonsister]

88. Nah, the Dems will survive, hopefully wiser.

But thanks for your concern!

[YOHABLO]

93. Because Trump will rubber stamp any Repbulican Agenda.

[area51]

94. This issue has been concerning me.

Republinazis can see the evidence of Trump's mental illness and dementia with their own eyes, yet they do nothing. What's a little treason thrown into the mix?

[Midnight Writer]

95. I think this is exactly what happened to Iran-Contra Investigation. Walsh had them nailed, then...

[Garrett78]

96. It's the same question David Roberts of Vox asked a while back.

Worth reading: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis

[Hekate]

97. KnR

[Peaceful Protester]

101. ALL politicians must now call on Trump to resign

Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations

01) Jessica Leeds (1980s)
02) Kristin Anderson (1990s)
03) Cathy Heller (1997)
04) Temple Taggart McDowell (1997)
05) Karena Virginia (1998)
06) Mindy McGillivray (2003)
07) Rachel Crooks (2005)
08) Natasha Stoynoff (2005)
09) Jessica Drake (2006)
10) Ninni Laaksonen (2006)
11) Burnett's unnamed friend (2010)
12) Cassandra Searles (2013)

Allegations of pageant dressing room visits

1) Miss Teen USA contestants
2) Bridget Sullivan (2000)
3) Tasha Dixon (2001)
4) Unnamed contestants (2001)
5) Samantha Holvey (2006)

Read More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The 88 reasons Trump is unfit to serve as President

The 88 reasons Trump is unfit to serve as President, according to an official Democrats resolution
The list includes the President's remarks about women and his use of Twitter
Harry Cockburn New York Wednesday 19 July 2017 21:02

Democrats in the US House of Representatives have brought a "no confidence" resolution detailing why they believe Donald Trump is unfit to serve as President of the United States.

The list contains 88 points of argument for why he is an unsuitable President and questions many of Mr Trump’s business deals, his regular volleys against what he calls the “fake news” media, and his derogatory verbal attacks on women.

The resolution, brought by Rep. Steve Cohen has no chance of successfully passing through the Republican-led chamber, but it provides a reminder of many of the scandals that have hit the Presidency during Mr Trump’s tenure.

Read more:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/us-politics/donald-trump-house-democrats-president-impeach-no-confidence-resolution-a7850006.html
.

[samnsara]

102. im prepared for trump to walk away but not jarad....that may be trumps end.

...possibly jr as well.

[Peaceful Protester]

103. The Mueller Investigation Is in Mortal Danger

"When Mueller was appointed, legal scholars debated whether Trump had the technical authority to fire him, but even the majority who believed he did assumed such a power existed only in theory".

"In August, members of both parties began drawing up legislation to prevent Trump from sacking Mueller".

"In fact, the risk has swelled. Trump has publicly declared any investigation into his finances would constitute a red line, and that he reserves the option to fire Mueller if he investigates them".

"Earlier this month, it was reported that Mueller has subpoenaed records at Deutsche Bank, an institution favored both by Trump and the Russian spy network".

"It is almost a maxim of the Trump era that the bounds of the unthinkable continuously shrink. The capitulation to Moore was a dry run for the coming assault on the rule of law".

Read More:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/the-mueller-investigation-is-in-mortal-danger.html
.

[McCamy Taylor]

104. Here is why I think that the 2018 elections will change the balance of power in DC.

Before Karl Rove made election e-voting fraud so easy, everyone would have predicted that the Dems would score huge wins in the 2018---the party in power is massively unpopular and Trump will not be on the ballot to lure his own base out to vote.

Rove used third party splitters like Greens to trim votes from the Dems and give Republicans slim/barely plausible leads. He threw out slime before the elections to convince people after the stolen elections that "dumb voters" fell for the Swiftboat type lies and that this was why the pre-election polls were "wrong." The election results always looked screwy, but most of the time it was hard to pin anything on him, because he always kept track of "the math." In 2004, "the math" got away from him in Ohio, when he was unable to shut down the exit polls----and in 2006, he lost Congress. But the flaw ridden electronic voting system that he put in place which allows the Republican Party to cheat is still here.

In 2016, Russia exploited that flawed electronic voting system.

The corporate donors who support the GOP do not want to give up e-voting. It is too valuable for them in the long term. Yes, the FBI and the CIA and the NSA could look the other way and allow Russia to do another implausible hack. However, the net result would be that electronic voting would become so massively unpopular that it would be outlawed in most states. Meaning that the people who plan to control this country for many years to come would be back at square one.

That is why I think that some members of law enforcement bodies that are not usually adverse to Republican electronic vote fraud will attempt to keep Russia from doing it again. They will tell themselves that they are being patriotic, but their real motive will be to keep Russia from ruining Chase/Exxon/Monsanto's "good thing."

[no_hypocrisy]

105. If Mueller does have enough (or more than enough) evidence to indict, perhaps convict

Trump, isn't the matter out of Congress's hands? It goes to a grand jury, then a federal criminal trial court.

Then it isn't a matter of impeachment; it's a federal criminal proceeding.

Then you'd have a heck of a time selecting a jury who won't either nullify the findings and let Trump go or a perpetual hung jury or an appeal from Trump, claiming the jury was "rigged with liberal democrats".

Guess the OP was accurate. No matter how you approach making Trump accountable, this country is so well divided, that justice cannot be reliably served.

[treestar]

109. The scarier question

is will the voters care enough to knock them out in 2018? Will there be enough voters angry at the concept of a POTUS being above the law?

[Hekate]

111. KnR