Adult trial for Wisconsin girls in Slender Man stabbing

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Adult trial for Wisconsin girls in Slender Man stabbing
By TODD RICHMOND, Associated Press | March 13, 2015 | Updated: March 13, 2015 6:59pm

WAUKESHA, Wis. (AP) — Two young Wisconsin girls accused of stabbing their classmate to please the horror character Slender Man must stand trial as adults for attempted homicide, a judge ruled Friday.

Both girls face a count of being a party to attempted first-degree intentional homicide, which automatically places them in adult court under Wisconsin law. They each could face up to 65 years in the state prison system if convicted. Both defendants and the victim, Payton Leutner, were 12 at the time of the stabbing.

Both girls' attorneys have argued that the girls legitimately believed they had to kill Leutner to protect their families from Slender Man's wrath. Anthony Cotton, an attorney for one of the girls, called his client a schizophrenic in court Friday.

Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren found there was enough evidence to order a trial in adult court.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Will-Slender-Man-stabbing-suspects-stand-trial-as-6132061.php

[Archae]

1. This bizarre story is on a lot of minds.

Now some company has come out with a "Slenderman" videogame.

[Scootaloo]

3. "Slender" is three years old.

And the character is at least six.

The only connection is that these kids wanted an alibi. (and yes, they're kids.)

[a kennedy]

2. Noooooooooooooooooooo

[whereisjustice]

4. 12 yr olds as adults? that's as sick and twisted as the crime. We've lost all moral

bearings and as a culture we are entering an era of voodoo tribalism. How long before we start burning witches?

[Blue_Tires]

7. Well, when the alternative is *only* keeping them until they are 25

it's pretty clear...

If those girls are proven to be mentally ill, keep them in a mental health facility, then...They do *not* belong in society for a very very long time...

Did you miss the part where they spent MONTHS planning this?

[whereisjustice]

10. It is immoral to subject a 12 yr old to the same measure of justice as an adult. As for

months planning - what does that have to do with it? They could have been 11. That makes it even more bizarre. This is vigilante justice.

[Blue_Tires]

11. Months planning = premeditation

which is one of the big factors in legally determining if the murderers knew what they were doing, and were mentally competent...

I'm not saying send them to death row or maximum security, just stick them in a secure mental treatment facility for a long, long time...

[Chemisse]

18. What's wrong with keeping them imprisoned until age 25?

That is an entire lifetime for 12 year olds. At 25 they would have spent more of their lives behind bars than not.

I think the defense is bogus and in fact their acts are not defensible at all. But the punishment for children should be very different than that for adults.

[Drahthaardogs]

28. Because they appear to be little psychopaths/sociopaths

an adult trial ensure that they can be held for life if they do not improve/rehabilitate. It is about public safety not justice. Last I heard, sociopaths cannot be cured.

[Chemisse]

29. That is a really good point.

Apparently this diagnosis cannot be made until someone is 18, because the child's brain is thought to be malleable and able to change or improve.

But psychiatry and its diagnostic guidelines are pretty far removed from science, subject to societal trends, opinions and possibly even political pressures. So I wouldn't lay bets on the ability to pull away from sociopathic tendencies in the years prior to the age of 18.

[christx30]

5. How is that a defense?

Both girls' attorneys have argued that the girls legitimately believed they had to kill Leutner to protect their families from Slender Man's wrath.

If I run over someone, and I 'legitimately' believed the light was green, I'm still guilty of vehicular homocide or manslaughter, and I should face the penalty for my mistake. If you try to murder someone to appease a fictional character, you're either lying, or you got serious issues. But you should still face the penalty. Those girls should be warehoused for a long time. Who knows what else they might do. Maybe they might think they gotta kill a 3 year old kid to appease Mario. Or run over an old lady to keep Lex Luther happy.

[rpannier]

13. Because most psychologists agree that children are NOT able

to appreciate or understand the gravity of most of what they do
That's why they can't drink, can't smoke, can't consent to sex, etc

You are applying adult logic to children
I'm guessing you don't have children, and probably don't spend a lot of time around them

[christx30]

15. I actually have 2 kids.

An 8 year old autistic boy and a 6 year old daughter. She doesn't like to do her homework, which only consists of writing 4 sentences. She had a field trip coming up for school (a production of 'Three Little pigs' at a local theater) and we told her that she couldn't go unless she finished the work. Had a week to do it. But the night before, she was doing the whole "I'm so tired!!" BS, 2 minutes after playing with her brother. The pencil was simply too heavy to lift. Worked with her for 3 hours that night, reminding her of the consequences of not doing the work. She eventually went to bed. The next day, I took my son to school, and she stayed home, and she missed her field trip. Cried a lot, but she knew what would happen.
Teaching consequences is important. She may have been angry about missing out on a fun day, but I won't have to worry about her stabbing another child to please Bowser.

[rpannier]

16. my apologies

not only was i wrong, but i was about as wrong as possiblr

apologies again

[Kelvin Mace]

6. One more time

If you are going to try children "as adults", then lower the age of ALL other criteria as well. If I can be an adult at 12, then I can drink, smoke, vote, marry, join the army, drive, buy a gun, etc, at 12 as well.

[Chemisse]

17. I agree completely.

And if we consider lowering all those age requirements and decline to do it because they are just too young to make those decisions, then maybe we can also recognize that they are too young to be tried as adults for crimes.

[Purveyor]

8. Anyone know right off what is the youngest age a child has been tried as an

adult in the USA?

[Paulie]

12. This one I remember. 14 and executed by electric chair

Brutal details here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

[rpannier]

14. Here's probably the youngest to be executed

From Justice Stewart's dissent 'In re Gault'

So it was that a 12-year-old boy named James Guild was tried in New Jersey for killing Catharine Beakes. A jury found him guilty of murder, and he was sentenced to death by hanging. The sentence was executed. It was all very constitutional.

found this:

http://www.executedtoday.com/2012/11/28/1828-james-little-jim-guild/

The jury convicted James Guild of first-degree murder, which meant an automatic death sentence … but the judge was reluctant to execute a preteen. He referred the case to the New Jersey Supreme Court for sentencing, as Hearn records:

Special hearings were held to probe all aspects of Jim’s mentality. It was found that he knew right from wrong as well as the consequences of murder. He knew about the sanctity of an oath. It was also clear that Jim had had the wherewithal to confess what he had done based on his own rationale. Moreover, the appellate judges found what they considered to be ample precedent for condoning the execution of preteen felons — especially those of precocious acumen … The use of his tender age alone as a pretext for sparing his life under such circumstances would “be of dangerous consequence to the public … by propagating a notion that children might commit atrocious crimes with impunity. So the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled that Jim Guild was “a proper subject of capital punishment.”

[daleo]

21. The fact that he was a slave is probably salient

I have my doubts whether a white 12 year old would have been hanged, even in 1828.

[rpannier]

22. Most likely correct

But that doesn't change him being the first

The two things I find most interesting from having read the case are
1. The central argument put forth by the SCONJ 'That children will kill with impunity' has been used since 1975
2. When Justice Stewart argued that he could foresee in the near future where juveniles would be charged and executed like adults, the other 8 justices found his argument not compelling, yet he was correct

[Tanuki]

25. Fascinating website

Thank you for the link.

[Comrade Grumpy]

9. That's stupid.

[Helen Borg]

19. But they are not adults. This makes no sense whatsoever!

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. Legislative Failure

They are saying that the Juvenile System isn't set-up to handle major crimes like Premeditated Murder. So your only option is to put 12yr olds into the adult system. The people really to blame in a such a case are the members of the Legislatures for failing to establish an appropriate venue and set of rules to deal with such things.

[VA_Jill]

23. Mentally ill people

are perfectly capable of making and executing elaborate plans. Mentally ill is NOT the same thing as "legally insane". "Legal insanity" is a fiction that assumes a person is incompetent and does not understand the difference between right and wrong and this is what not only most of the public but the judge seems to be operating under. In addition, the mind of a mentally ill 12 year old still does not work like the mind of a mentally ill adult. Both may be seriously delusional, but in different ways because they have reached different points in their maturity. And some mentally ill persons can be very charismatic (think Jim Jones), while others may be easily led. This is a travesty and a tragedy in the making.

[nomorenomore08]

24. Generally speaking, I don't think anyone under, say, 16 should be charged as an adult.

Regardless, these girls need to spend years - perhaps many years - in a psychiatric hospital.

[Half-Century Man]

26. Because nothing scares the other 12 year olds contemplating murder like a psychotically firm hand.

The way adults should teach disturbed children is not by acting like children driven by a desire for revenge to a greater level of disturbance.

[davidpdx]

30. I have been reading about this case

Assuming they are given a fair trial, they are convicted, and that premeditation can be proved there is a large difference in the sentence depending if they are charged as minors or adults. If they are charged as minors, from what I have read they would be released regardless of what happens during their time locked up at 25 maybe even sooner.

Claiming mental incapacity is a two way street. Their defense is trying to say they didn't know what they were doing, yet they were planning it for months. If they are truly THAT sick can you claim say for sure when they might be well enough to join society? If they are tried as minors it won't matter because they will be released sometime in their early to mid 20's.

They are extremely lucky the victim did not die (even though that's what they clearly intended). I read that if the knife had gone the length of a human air more she would have.

[geek tragedy]

31. they sound like they belong in a psychiatric institution for a few decades instead of prison

But, none of this 2 years of counseling then hope they take their meds nonsense.