Ranger uses stun gun on man operating drone over lava lake

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Ranger uses stun gun on man operating drone over lava lake
By JENNIFER SINCO KELLEHER, Associated Press | April 28, 2015 | Updated: April 28, 2015 5:46pm

HONOLULU (AP) — A ranger did what was necessary when he used a stun gun on a man flying a drone over a lake of lava, the National Park Service said.

Crowds have been flocking to Hawaii Volcanoes National Park to watch a steadily rising lava lake at the summit of Kilauea volcano.

There were several hundred people at an outlook area at about 10 p.m. on Sunday when a ranger asked Travis Sanders three times to bring the drone down, park spokeswoman Jessica Ferracane told The Associated Press Tuesday. The ranger told Sanders flying an unmanned aircraft in a national park is prohibited.

Sanders eventually brought down the drone. "The ranger identified himself and approached the individual, who refused to identify himself," Ferracane said.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Ranger-uses-stun-gun-on-man-operating-drone-over-6229716.php

[dbackjon]

1. Drones have caused damage in National Parks

He refused to bring it down.

[F4lconF16]

2. Was there any threat of physical harm to the officer?

No?

THEN HE BETTER NOT FUCKING TASER ANYONE.

Why is this so damn hard to understand? You don't get to hurt someone because they don't listen to you. You hurt someone if and only if you or someone else is in immediate physical danger, and EVEN THEN, you better minimize that harm in every way possible.

Goddess, I am tired of people justifying the assault on citizens.

[dbackjon]

6. Drones over an active volcano - refusing to obey orders

What, did you want him to shoot him? He did minimize harm.

Drones have PERMANENTLY DAMAGED National Park features. A drone flying near an active volcano is a danger to everyone around.


We can not exist in anarchy.

SHIT, I am tired of people excusing lawlessness.

[1monster]

8. Minimized the harm!!! The man had brought down the drone. He refused to identify himself

and the ranger was ticked off. The man tried to leave and the ranger shot him with the tazer when he was nearly on the rim of the caldera and a 500 foot drop.

Sounds to me like he really endangered the guy rather than minimized the harm.

[BronxBoy]

10. What about lawlessness by cops?????

There was no reason to taser the guy even if he was being an asshole

[Hoppy]

13. I just heard of a third alternative. issue a summons.

I don't know if it would work or not. But maybe the Ranger should'a given it a chance.

[okaawhatever]

23. You can't issue a summons to someone you can't identify. That is likely why he was asking for

identification and trying to detain him. The guy was trying to give the middle finger to the legal system. I'm not sure if I agree with the officer's actions, but I absolutely do not support this guy's behavior. He sounds like a punk who thinks he's above the law.

[Sgent]

25. So you arrest them

and cuff them. If they resist arrest then you stun them.

[okaawhatever]

26. Point being you can't cuff them or arrest them if they're running away. And I don't necessarily

agree with the stun gun. I think he should have chased him on foot or something similar. The problem I have is that the guy's behavior seemed awfully suspicious. Someone who is flying a drone, won't stop doing so when the police requests, won't give i.d. runs away. I'd be less fearful of someone who just robbed a store. At least with that you know what you're getting.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

16. How?

How is a drone over an active volcano any more dangerous than, say, .... an active volcano?

'We can not exist in anarchy. SHIT, I am tired of people excusing lawlessness.'

says the guy with the OP that says

If The SCOTUS rules against marriage equality, time to revolt
If I am not treated like an equal citizen, then why should I pay taxes?

follow any laws?


Time to take down institutions that oppose equality by whatever means necessary.

In the span of 8 hours, you went from advocating lawlessness to being tired of excusing it.

[Ed Suspicious]

18. How so? What could have happened? My limited imagination isn't getting me there.

[Recursion]

30. A taser is not a compliance device

The drone was already down, and he wouldn't identify himself. The ranger tased to achieve compliance, which he isn't supposed to do.

[snooper2]

38. LOL, so me the damage from a drone to a national park feature

I'm sure the lava would have been REALLY fucking upset had it crashed in it

[AtheistCrusader]

55. I'm sorry, but, what is a plastic drone going to do to molten stone?

I can see some geographical features, and some forms of life found in park ecosystems getting damaged by things much simpler than drones, but this was a lake of lava.

What in the blue fuck can a drone do to damage a volcano? And if it falls in, what danger does it pose to other visitors?

[MosheFeingold]

5. It's a friggin volcanoe

What's going to happen?! Accidentally destroy the One Ring?

[daleanime]

14. ......

[Ed Suspicious]

19. :thumbsoup:

[OnlinePoker]

29. I don't know how to recommend for a DUzy, but this deserves it. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. He did bring it down, before he was tasered

He was tasered for running away. Which seems more like assault by the ranger, to me. The quote "the ranger felt he needed to be stopped for the safety of himself" seems to be the only possible excuse that the ranger can try to use.

[okaawhatever]

24. So should the police let every criminal run away and not give them a citation? The guy deserved a

citation and wouldn't identify himsself so the officer could write it. Instead, he ran away. What is appropriate behavior by the police officer?

[killbotfactory]

28. "No littering!"

[Recursion]

31. Legally, yes. That is the law as it stands

Force should not be used to prevent flight unless the officer reasonably suspects the suspect presents an imminent danger to others.

[okaawhatever]

32. What you're quoting is State of TN v Garner but that refers to deadly force, not just force nt

[Recursion]

33. Tasers are deadly force

That's why they are not supposed to be used for compliance.

Hell, gunshots only kill about 5% of the time.

[okaawhatever]

34. Tasers are not considered deadly force. In most use of force continuums they are considered

intermediate weapons. From wikipedia an example of use of force continuum scale for the individual:

In all use of force continuum models, the actions of the subject is classified in order for the officer to quickly determine what level of force is authorized and may be necessary to apprehend or compel compliance from the individual. Listed below are examples of how subjects are classified.

Passive compliant --- a person who recognizes the authority of the officers presence and follows the verbal commands of the officer.[28][29][30]
Passive resistor --- a person who refuses to follow the verbal commands of the officer but does not resist attempts by officers to take positive physical control over them.[31][32][33]
Active resistor --- a person who does not follow verbal commands, resist attempts by the officer to take positive physical control over them, and does not try to inflict harm on the officer.[34][35][36]
Active aggressor --- a person who does not follow verbal commands, resists attempts by the officer to take positive physical control over them and attempts to cause harm to the officer or others.[37][38][39]

Generally, the passive subjects fall under levels 1-3 of the use of force continuum, where active subjects fall under levels 4-6 of the use of force continuum. The officers are trained to apply the proper measure of force within the continuum based on the actions and classification of the subject

In this instance the individual was an active resistor which allows levels 4-6 of force. Tasers are level 5 (intermediate weapons)

5. Intermediate weapons --- an amount of force that would have a high probability of causing soft connective tissue damage or bone fractures. (e.g. expandable baton, baton, pepper spray, Taser, beanbag rounds, rubber fin stabilized ammunition, Mace (spray), police dogs, etc.) Intermediate weapon techniques are designed to impact muscles, arms and legs, and intentionally using an intermediate weapon on the head, neck, groin, knee caps, or spine would be classified as deadly or lethal force.[19][

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. If you look at the DoJ Use of Force paper, tasers are inappropriate in this situation

I. DEFINITIONS
...
E. Electronic Control Device (ECD) - The ECD is a Neuro-Muscular Incapacitation device that stimulates
the motor neurons to contract disrupting communication from the brain to the muscles thereby causing
temporary motor skill dysfunction.
...
L. Low Level Force - Low level force is the level of force that is necessary to interact with a subject that is
compliant or displaying Passive or Active Resistance
...
V. LEVELS OF RESISTANCE (see Use of Force Model)
...
C. Active Resistance - The subject’s verbal or physical actions are intended to prevent an officer from placing
the subject in custody and taking control, but are not directed at harming the officer. Examples include:
walking or running away, breaking the officer’s grip.
...
VI. LEVELS OF CONTROL (see Use of Force Model)

A. Low Level Force - The level of control necessary to interact with a subject that is compliant or displaying
Passive or Active Resistance. This level of force is not intended to and has a low-probability of causing
injury. Examples are handcuffing a compliant arrestee for transport to detention facility or proning a
suspect out on a high-risk vehicle stop.

This level of force includes:
1. Officer Presence
2. Verbal Communication
3. Empty Hand Tactics (Takedowns)
4. Handcuffs/Other LVMPD Approved Restraint Devices
5. Baton (As escort tool)
6. LVNR® (Level One – minimum restraint)
7. K-9 – (No bites)
8. Pinching
9. Blocking

B. Intermediate Force - The level of force necessary to compel compliance by a subject displaying Aggressive
Resistance, which is neither likely nor intended to cause death.
This level of force requires a Use of Force Report and includes:
1. Empty Hand Tactics (Takedown with injury, Strikes, Kicks)
2. Baton/Impact Weapons (Jabs, Strikes)
3. LVNR® (Level 2 – medium restraint; and 3-maximum restraint)
4. OC Spray
5. ECD
...
G. Electronic Control Device:
...
Disapproved Use:
...
3. The ECD will not be used:
...
b. When the subject is in a position where a fall may cause injury or death;
...
h. When a subject displays solely Passive or Active Resistance (i.e. peaceful protest, refusal to stand,
non-aggressive verbal resistance, etc.);
i. When a subject is fleeing as the sole justification for use of the ECD.

http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/Use-of-Force.pdf

The Wikipedia editor has got it wrong when saying "generally, the passive subjects fall under levels 1-3 of the use of force continuum, where active subjects fall under levels 4-6 of the use of force continuum.", even though they claim that comes from this paper. It's aggressive subjects who fall under 4-6; there's a diagram in the PDF, as well as the verbal descriptions.

[candelista]

43. Obscurum per obscuris.

What cop is going to be able to figure this out?

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. I don't think it's hard to understand

And a cop isn't going to be handed a paper like that and be told to work out what his job is without talking to anyone else. They sit in classes and get taught about what force they can use when.

The principle "you don't risk major injury or death for someone running from a minor infraction of a law" is pretty simple. I was surprised to see someone saying it was justified.

[candelista]

49. It's the "major" and "minor" that carries all the weight.

And the discussion above shows that this is a quagmire.

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. 'major' is only used in the PDF to describe police departments and an incident log

and minor isn't used at all. So I'm not sure what you mean.

It's a quagmire if you pay attention to the incorrect (and now, old) Wikipedia interpretation. Or if you're the National Park Service trying to avoid a payment for wrongful assault. If you read the pdf, or have an idea of the basic laws about allowable violence, it's pretty simple.

[Orsino]

47. Electronic Control Device.

It's right there in the name.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. I don't know what you're trying to say (nt)

[Orsino]

52. Upthread, a poster laments that the taser is not supposed to be a compliance device.

But what's in a name?

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. It says 'control device', not 'compliance device'

It is meant to be used to prevent physical harm:

The ECD is an Intermediate Level of Control and may be used when there is an imminent threat of physical harm.
...
The ECD will not be used:
...
c. Punitively for purposes of coercion or in an unjustified manner;
d. To escort or jab individuals;
...
h. When a subject displays solely Passive or Active Resistance (i.e. peaceful protest, refusal to stand,
non-aggressive verbal resistance, etc.);
i. When a subject is fleeing as the sole justification for use of the ECD.

("Intermediate Force - The level of force necessary to compel compliance by a subject displaying Aggressive
Resistance, which is neither likely nor intended to cause death. "
"Intermediate Level of Control - Potential to cause injury or substantial pain&quot

[Orsino]

54. That memo obviously didn't get to everyone. n/t

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

39. Did he tell the guy he was under arrest? Otherwise he should have left him alone.

[okaawhatever]

40. Sounds like it. He was asking for identification, the guy wouldn't put the drone down when

the officer asked him.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

41. You can ask for ID, and not be arresting someone.

[TheSarcastinator]

50. Perhaps YOU would like to live in a nation where that type of brutality is permissable

but I will take a pass, thanks.

[Xithras]

11. He had already landed it and was trying to leave.

The ranger tasered him because the guy refused to identify himself and was trying to flee. That's not a legitimate reason to apply potentially lethal force at the edge of a 500 foot cliff. The ranger was out of line.

[uppityperson]

15. +++++++++

[msanthrope]

17. Actually, it is an application of what is considered non-lethal force whilst attempting to

take a suspect into custody.

[AtheistCrusader]

56. Tasers are LESS lethal, not non-lethal.

http://beaufortcountynow.com/post/2191/court-of-appeals-rules-stun-guns-are-deadly-weapons.html

[Ed Suspicious]

20. It was legit according to the first line in the pro-order article.

"HONOLULU (AP) — A ranger did what was necessary when he used a stun gun on a man flying a drone over a lake of lava, the National Park Service said."

[Downwinder]

3. Sounds like the ranger needed to be

stopped for the safety of himself and others.

[Auggie]

4. They both overreacted

Guy with the drone was being an asshole. It didn't warrant being tased though.

[dhill926]

7. yep.....

[Bradical79]

42. Guess it depends on whose story you believe

"Travis Ray Sanders brought his family to the park on Saturday evening to record the lava with his drone and didn't realize the man yelling at him to bring it down was a ranger, he told Hawaii News Now. Flying an unmanned aircraft at a national park is prohibited.

"He sounded very angry, confrontational — like he wanted to fight — and I didn't really want to stick around for it so I just told him, 'I don't have ID and I'm leaving," Sanders told the Honolulu news station"

[Earth_First]

12. Shit, every other cop in the country is using excessive force...

...and getting away with it.

Why shouldn't this NPS Ranger feel empowered to do the same?

[Ed Suspicious]

21. Exactly. Coercion by force is their favorite lately.

[tclambert]

22. Perhaps he was a terrorist studying the national park, making plans to blow up

the volcano.

[LeftyMom]

27. Or looking for a place to build a supervillain lair.

[tclambert]

37. Oh, I didn't know he was bald and had a white cat with him.

[valerief]

36. "Respect mah authoritah!" Too many Cartmans employed as police. They

all think they're damn Navy fuckin' Seals. Thanks, Hollywood.

[candelista]

44. Drones are how we get those nice lava videos.

That little drone isn't going to "damage" the poor volcano!

[hunter]

46. You don't use a stun gun on someone just for being an annoying asshole.

If using a stun gun for such cause was legal for all, it'd be an open season on law enforcement. Half the cops in the U.S.A. would be getting stunned multiple times each day by the citizens they are harassing.

If the ranger had a camera on him, simply take the guy's picture and forward it along to the park gates, local police, and airport TSA inspectors. If the fellow slips through the "dragnet," then, oh well, keep an eye on YouTube for drone volcano videos.

A guy flying a drone isn't a great threat to others. It's about the same level of threat as kids trying to throw rocks into the lava. It becomes a threat to others if the guy is buzzing people with the drone, or the kids are throwing rocks at people.

I think all cops should be required to serve at least seven years as middle school teachers. If they wash out of that, they shouldn't be cops.