EPA proposes lowering required amount of ethanol in gas

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By MARY CLARE JALONICK

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration is proposing to reduce the overall amount of ethanol blended in the nation's gasoline in coming years, a blow to renewable fuel companies that have pushed to keep high volumes of their product flowing into drivers' gas tanks.

The move is unlikely to mean much for consumers or prices at the pump, but the ethanol policy has been popular in farm states that have profited over the years from higher corn prices linked to the use of corn-based ethanol. Campaigning in Iowa, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton has called for a robust renewable fuels standard.

The 2007 renewable fuels law tried to address global warming, reduce dependence on foreign oil and bolster the rural economy. It required a steady increase in the amount of renewable fuels like corn-based ethanol blended into gasoline over time. The new proposal would reduce the amount required by more than 4 billion gallons in 2015 and by more than 3 billion gallons the following year.

The agency said the standards set by the law cannot be achieved, partly due to limitations on the amount of non-ethanol renewable fuels that can be produced. Next-generation biofuels, made from agricultural waste such as wood chips and corncobs, have not taken off as quickly as Congress required and the administration expected. There has also been less gasoline use than predicted, the Environmental Protection Agency said.

FULL story at link.



FILE - In this Nov. 1, 2014 file photo, an American Ethanol label is shown on a NASCAR race car gas tank at Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth, Texas. The Obama administration is proposing to reduce the amount of ethanol blended in the nation's gasoline, a blow to renewable fuel companies that have pushed to keep high volumes of their product flowing into drivers' gas tanks. The move is unlikely to mean much for consumers or prices at the pump. (AP Photo/Randy Holt, File)

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/98e6b3c66c9c432db6650a0a1d8b8f2d/epa-proposes-lowering-amount-ethanol-gas

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We have been burning ethanol in all our vehicles since the late 70's. A couple years ago the entire state went 10% ethanol when refineries went to 85 octane no lead gas. The only way to buy non-ethanol gas is to pay for premium gas.

[Dustlawyer]

1. My boat motor thanks you!

We should be pushing more for wind and solar along with electric vehicles. Ethanol has been a boondoggle here in the U.S.

[DetlefK]

2. Ethanol in gas is pure idiocy. You are essentially burning food.

Corn is an extremely thirsty plant. And then, instead of feeding people with it, you burn it as gas.

[Omaha Steve]

5. Ethanol only uses the starch in the corn etc

The left over mash is dried and is still food grade. In Nebraska it is used in award winning craft brews too.

http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices

Despite unsupported and hysterical claims, the battle between ethanol production and food and feed resources is not a battle at all. In fact, it is a symbiotic relationship that promises to provide long term financial gain for livestock and ethanol producers alike. First, it is critical that all sides in the debate agree to the facts. Ethanol production from corn is not leading to a shortage of grain for livestock feed. Quite the opposite is true. Because ethanol production produces both fuel and livestock feed, its quickly becoming a driving market force in the location and production of beef and dairy cattle.

- See more at: http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices#sthash.bHtChGXp.dpuf

[DetlefK]

8. The starch is actually the food part of grains.

That's how the plant stores chemical energy.

[Omaha Steve]

10. The world has an oversupply of starch.. more

Same link.

After fermentation, the resulting “beer” is transferred to distillation columns where the ethanol is separated from the remaining “stillage.” The stillage is sent through a centrifuge that separates the coarse grain from the solubles. The solubles are then concentrated to about 30 percent solids by evaporation, resulting in condensed distillers solubles (CDS) or “syrup.” CDS is sometimes sold into the feed market, but more often the residual coarse grain and the CDS are mixed together and dried to produce distillers dried grains with solubles (DDGS). In some cases, the syrup is not reapplied to the residual grains; this product is simply called distillers dried grains (DDG).

If the distillers grains are being fed to livestock in close proximity to the ethanol plant, the drying step is avoided and the product is called wet distillers grains with solubles (WDGS). Because of various drying and syrup applications practices, there are several variants of distillers grains (one of which is called modified wet distillers grains), but most product is sold as DDGS, DDG, or WDGS. The vitamins, fibers, and nutrients that remain are processed into a high-value livestock feed most commonly referred to as distillers dried grains with solubles, or DDGS. - See more at: http://www.americancattlemen.com/articles/ethanol-impact-feed-prices#sthash.bHtChGXp.H0qm38nQ.dpuf

[DetlefK]

11. Wait...

The world has so much starch in oversupply that we can afford to burn it and at the same time destroy domestic agriculture in Third World-countries with price-dumping?

[Omaha Steve]

12. I give up

You avoid ethanol and I will continue to burn it since I'm not going to pay for premium.

[snooper2]

27. Well, All of my engines are two stroke and I don't like the shit in my fuel

Actually, my buddy is coming over so we can rebuild the carb on his pressure washer tomorrow and smoke some hunks of meat....


Ethanol sucks

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/alternative-fuels/ethanol-damage-engine.htm

[Omaha Steve]

28. 20 years ago when I delivered gas-oil-etc

We had a 9 hole golf course that only used 10% ethanol in everything they had for years.

[StoneCarver]

30. Omaha Steve you are a demigod

But, I believe you are wrong on this one. I used to be a supporter of ethanol, but I work in water quality and use a lot of boats and motors. I carefully researched motors and chose a couple of new Yamahas over the Hondas. I have had nothing but trouble with hard starts and gel in the carburetor until I switched to (more expensive) non ethanol gas. Now I swear, two years later we have had none of the previous problems. I'm going to switch to non ethanol gas at home now too -for small engines. I hate to say it but small engines do not run well on ethanol gas. I don't know why. Sorry, but the boat motors were all the proof I needed.
Stonecarver.

[madokie]

35. Steve

I figure our mileage as miles per dollar and with straight gas I get about 6 tenths of a mile more per dollar. I mostly use the ethanol blends because the straight gas is not sold in my town. My lawn mower and weed eater gets the straight gas though as I don't have to buy as often. I take my two 5 gallon safety gas cans with me when I go see my brother when I need to buy gas for them and in the town where he lives there is a couple stations that sell straight gas. 10 gallons of gas in our lawnmower will mow for most of the summer. It takes about a gallon and a quart to mow our lawn and I mow once a week. Our lawn is one and one tenth acre.
We have a '14 focus and a '98 f150 and a '98 Ranger. All three figures the same six tenths more per dollar so it is cheaper for me to burn the straight gas when I am where I can get it.

[sybylla]

18. Unfortunately there's just no talking to some.

Might as well be talking to the dining room table.

[NickB79]

34. Then we should stop growing so many starchy crops in the first place

Then maybe we could start to address the fact we only have 60 years left of soil left on the planet due to constant tilling of the land: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

[azureblue]

25. and more

it was the major growers like Con Agra and Archer Daniels that pushed for corn ethanol. Go look at how much they lobbied congress and tried to keep other sources for ethanol from being approved. Your response omits a big point, and that is that corn grown for ethanol is displacing food grade corn acreage, because of government subsidies.. Growers make less money from human food grade corn.


Beets, sugar cane, and hemp are better sources, but the real point is that ethanol lowers mpg in cars not tuned for it. I can get straight gas for my 90's Volvo and it gets better gas mileage, that offsets the drop when it uses 10%. Worse with 15%.. If we all had new cars that were tuned for 15% it would be different, but that is not reality, and won't be.

[Omaha Steve]

26. Grass works well too

Like I said in Nebraska the REFINERIES (all out of state) lowered the octane to 85 so all gas (except straight premium) has to be mixed with premium or ethanol. We don't have a choice. Other states have the same problem.

My 09 Cobalt gets over 33 MPG highway on it. It is oxygenated so it is cleaner.

State Winter Oxygenated Fuel Program: http://www.epa.gov/OMS/fuels/gasolinefuels/winterprograms/index.htm

Oxygenates are fuel additives that contain oxygen, usually in the form of alcohol or ether. Oxygenates can enhance fuel combustion and thereby reduce exhaust emissions. Some oxygenates also boost gasoline octane.

The Clean Air Act requires use of oxygenated gasoline in areas where winter time carbon monoxide levels exceed federal air quality standards. Without oxygenated gasoline, carbon monoxide emissions from gasoline-fueled vehicles tend to increase in cold weather. Winter oxygenated gasoline programs are implemented by the states. The links below provide information about oxygenated gasoline, winter oxygenated gasoline areas, oxygenates (such as ethanol and MTBE), and health effects testing of oxygenates.

[OneCrazyDiamond]

6. My thoughts too.

I must admit I don't hate them turning the high fructose corn syrup into ethanol.
Of course I don't consider high fructose corn syrup food.

[ileus]

3. All engines will thank you.

And I won't have to travel 15 miles to buy petrol for my

2 weedeaters
2 dirt bikes
1 generator
1 tiller
1 ATV
1 Push mower
1 riding mower

Not to mention our 3 vehicles.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. O, cripes, I don't even want to discuss my small-engine cylinder index.

A couple of garden tractors, a couple of weed whackers (hand), a couple of weed whackers (wheeled), a couple of chain saws, a tiller, a push mower, a 1995 Mazda truck (well, OK, it isn't a small engine but I run 100% in it on the theory that 1995 vehicles weren't build with ethanol in mind)--

Fortunately, I live in farm & recreational country & the local co-op station carries both 100% gas and off-road diesel for my John Deere.

[ileus]

17. I forgot the chainsaw.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. And I forgot my DR mower.

2 cyl Kawasaki 15 hp, an old one.

[ileus]

22. I've been dreaming of a DR for a while.

Of course I'd rather have a compact tractor...but that's 17-25k. Small backhoe and front loader of course.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. My old 1999 JD 790--3cyl Diesel, 30 hp, FEL,

I used it for years with a back blade to plow my 2-block-long driveway in the winter. I grade the road with a box blade & have a brush hog & boom pole for lifting things as well as a bunch of FEL attachments, e.g. a tooth bar, a brush fork, & a digging spade. And a PTO chipper that takes 4" brush.

Depending on your situation, I don't know how useful a backhoe is, although they're fun to play with. The FEL is indispensable.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. All of my lawn care is electric....

The electric mower was bought in 1985 and is still going strong. I just sharpened the blade.

The weed whacker works great and I recently got and electric blower/mulcher with a bag.

True, you have to drag a cord, but that's okay on a 1/4 acre lot. I'm never more than 100' from an outlet.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Calling ethanol "renewable" is a stretch.

Especially corn ethanol.

It takes diesel to run the equipment to plant & harvest, It takes glyphosate to kill the bugs. The fertilizers are made largely from fossil fuels. Then ya gotta ferment the corn & distill off the alcohol. The ethanol plants give off horrible smells that even downwind Republicans don't like. And the distillation process consumes fossil fuel, usually natural gas.

The farmers around here went crazy when the price of gas hit the ceiling a few years ago. They were out with giant crawler tractors, destroying their woodlots to increase the size of their fields. Ancient oaks fell to greed. Then energy prices collapsed, and guess what happened to corn prices. Ah, but not to fear for the poor farmers. Their industry is subsidized.

[Owl]

32. I absolutely totally agree!

[PoliticAverse]

9. I'm sure the ethanol welfare lobby will quash this idea quickly. n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

13. It will lower beef prices...

because, unlike other countries, we only seem capable of making ethanol with corn. Of course, the corn lobby is pushing that.

[Omaha Steve]

15. Beef are fed left over ethanol mash

Have you ever looked in the store at the price of grass fed beef? It is much higher. Healthier but higher.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. With the price of beef being what it is...

I may have to give it up. I got rib eyes a few months ago for $10 a pound. On Mother's Day it was up to $11. It is beginning to get untouchable.

[wordpix]

21. cattle are fed the most pesticide-laden feed

on the planet. First, soy and corn are 2 of the most heavily sprayed crops and are mostly GMO-Roundup ready. So have some mutation-causing glyphosate in your food chain. Crowded animals are also fed antibiotics, and pesticides are given in livestock
feed directly to control intestinal parasites. So if you're not eating grass fed beef, you're getting a triple whammy of pesticides and antibiotics. Grass fed beef burger costs $6.50-8.00 /lb. in my area. Not a bad price to pay to stay healthy.

[Omaha Steve]

23. Tell that to the homeless and poor

It doesn't change the ethanol we are talking about coming from corn.

[IDemo]

20. The EPA and USDA should have a meeting

so they can figure out their stance on ethanol -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112786164

[mahatmakanejeeves]

29. That is a classic. NT

[sendero]

31. Burning ethanol for fuel...

.... is idiotic and I thank god I can buy ethanol-free gasoline 4 miles from my home.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. From Hemmings: EPA backs down on ethanol requirements; proposals to eliminate RFS stalled

EPA backs down on ethanol requirements; proposals to eliminate RFS stalled

Daniel Strohl at 8:59 am

Long-awaited Renewable Fuel Standard program revisions that the EPA released late last month indicate that while the federal agency has no plans to reverse corn ethanol’s presence in the U.S. fuel supply, EPA officials also don’t support blending as much total ethanol into fuel as it once did.

Expected in 2013, the proposed RFS volumes of renewable fuels—which include both advanced biofuels and corn-derived ethanol—stipulate 15.93 billion total gallons for 2014, 16.3 billion gallons for 2015, and 17.4 billion gallons for 2016. The EPA derived all the 2014 volumes from actual amounts put onto the market last year.

Those numbers fall short of the total volumes the EPA initially proposed five years ago by 2.22 billion gallons for 2014 (12 percent), 4.2 billion gallons for 2015 (20 percent), and 4.85 gallons for 2016 (22 percent). Analysts point to a number of factors for the revised projections, including the effects of hitting the E10 blend wall, reduced demand for gasoline in general, and slower adoption of advanced biofuels (cellulosic biofuel, for example, comprised just 33 million gallons of the 2014 totals, versus a projected 1.75 billion gallons).

Though left unsaid in the recent announcement, the EPA’s revised standards would likely hinder further expansion of E15 blended fuel.