Bush: New gun limits not way to prevent shooting tragedies

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By KIMBERLY PIERCEALL

HENDERSON, Nev. (AP) — New gun control measures are not the way to prevent mass killings such as the shooting deaths of nine people in a South Carolina church, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush said Saturday.

Bush, who plans to meet with black ministers in Charleston, South Carolina, on Monday, said identifying potentially violent people before they commit such crimes is a better approach than further restrictions on gun ownership.

"We as a society better figure out how we identify these folks long before they feel compelled to take up a gun and kill innocent people," the former Florida governor said at a town hall meeting.

Afterward, he told reporters gun control was an issue that should be sorted out at the state level.

FULL story at link.



Republican presidential candidate, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush waits in a hallway after a campaign event Saturday, June 27, 2015, in Henderson, Nev. (AP Photo/John Locher)

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3e16baa1cb1040daafbfec358a9b7097/jeb-bush-schedules-meetings-pastors-charleston-sc

[Historic NY]

1. So background checks won't discover or identify these folks....

so saath a Bush

[former9thward]

37. Background checks would not have prevented Charleston.

The gun he used he purchased and did have a background check. Inconvenient truths.

[DCBob]

41. Stricter background checks might have.

[former9thward]

50. Are you going to deny a gun to someone with a misdemeanor conviction?

No one has called for that.

[DCBob]

59. Depends.

If its gun related and/or multiple instances and/or when combined with other red flags like mental instability.. then perhaps yes.

[former9thward]

60. That is a lot of ifs.

Can't do laws like that.

[DCBob]

61. Sure you can... something like "3 strikes you're out".

[former9thward]

62. We saw what happened to that one on Friday.

[DCBob]

63. No.. what happened?

[former9thward]

64. In a Scalia decision

the SC knocked down the federal 3 strikes law as being unconstitutionally vague. The state laws live on but they may be subject to challenge based on this ruling.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/high-court-strikes-vague-part-career-criminal-law-32048882

[DCBob]

65. Thanks.

Looks like "vague" is the issue.. not so much that the "3 strikes" concept is unconstitutional.

[former9thward]

66. Yes, but its important.

I believe many of the state laws are just as vague.

[jaysunb]

2. Hey Jeb, when you're in a hole...

stop digging !

[cstanleytech]

11. A but you see he is the brother of George Bush so he has to keep

digging because there will probably end up being alot of dead american soldiers he will be responsible for killing like his brother if he gets elected to the office of president.

[Big_Mike]

3. Even a broken clock is right twice a day

This just happens to be one of the two times the guy is right. The other one is we have to do something strong and positive about immigration.

[catnhatnh]

4. Well, they're mostly white men...

...so I'd be especially suspicious of a white guy who tried to pass as Hispanic....

[They_Live]

5. He then added...

"What the hell do I know? I'm just talking out of my ass!"

[Cryptoad]

6. GOP: A gun for every Idiot, an Idiot for every gun!

[GGJohn]

10. Oh, now I get it.

Because I choose to own firearms, I'm an idiot?
Despite the fact that I'm a retired veteran?
Despite the fact that I'm a successful farm owner?
Despite the fact that my firearms have never hurt another human?

And you and your cohorts wonder why firearms owners resist your "enlightened" views on firearms ownership.

[tavernier]

18. I will never understand why serious and responsible

gun owners are afraid of stricter background checks. I would think that people who know and respect firearms would be the first to advocate for the highest standards.

[GGJohn]

19. Who says we're against UBC's?

The NRA? Those bunch of RW assholes?
You'll find that almost all firearms owners, including me, do support UBC's.

[Duckhunter935]

24. As do I

with accurate and timely information

[GGJohn]

25. +1000. eom.

[madville]

54. They should be able to cross reference medications

Maybe anyone on mental illness related mess should become a prohibited person, cross reference the background check system to a central prescription database.

[hack89]

57. Making mentally ill people's medical records widely available

is going to stir up a lot of resistance. Mental health professionals will fight further stigmatization of their patients.

[Duckhunter935]

58. That is always the sticky wicket

[pablo_marmol]

67. As do I. NT

[olegramps]

49. The NRA was absolutely for strick background checks, but has reversed itself.

[rpannier]

21. Do you support or oppose

keeping firearms away from mentally ill people
keeping firearms away from people who are considered dangerous to others (examples, they have assaulted or have threatened to kill a family member, neighbor, people who have a history of violence)
preventing blind people from owning firearms
preventing people who have a past history of misusing firearms that have resulted in serious injury or death to others

Just curious

I have no problem with people owning firearms
And you're not an idiot for owning one, two or ten or whatever

I find it amusing and exhausting that people on both sides of the issue accuse the other of engaging in reflexive and caustic rhetoric

Where Bush is wrong is, that Republicans and some Democrats have refused to fund or taken money away from programs that they turn around and claim haven't worked when something does happen.
They'll claim there are already so many laws on the books now and that we should be enforcing those. They're right we should
But then they turn around and undermine those rules and laws

[GGJohn]

22. ...

Do you support or oppose

keeping firearms away from mentally ill people
keeping firearms away from people who are considered dangerous to others (examples, they have assaulted or have threatened to kill a family member, neighbor, people who have a history of violence)
preventing blind people from owning firearms
preventing people who have a past history of misusing firearms that have resulted in serious injury or death to others

Yes to all, as long as it is done in a fair and unbiased manner.

[rpannier]

23. Then I have no issue

I recognize that, like in any organization, the umbrella leadership doesn't necessarily speak for the majority of people who share the cause
Look at the Democratic Party. Anyone who said all Democrats share the exact same values of the leadership would be lying or a fool.
It's true of religion, politics, whatever

I do not own guns, but have relatives who do.
They're responsible about using them and I think most people who own firearms are
Like many things, there is always going to be a group of irresponsible hacks out there.
The question becomes, how do you deal with that threat, while not punishing everyone else who is responsible

[Cryptoad]

43. I have no problem with any

"reasonable" person owning a firearm. I do have a problem with idiots owning firearms. Firearms need to be controlled at the Federal level just like they control just like they control military grade weapons. All guns needs to be registered, titled and bonded on a Federal level then license gun owners.. and Yes, i am a gun toting progressive liberal.

[Cryptoad]

44. geeez ,,, learn to read John

nobody called you a idiot.
The GOP new gun policy is to match ever gun with idiot. That is what my post was about.

btw... I am gun toting progressive, liberal, veteran, business owner.

[George II]

7. In other words.....he's got nothing

[Stuart G]

8. Of course he has got "nothing" ..because without the last name..he is nothing...!!!!

[LiberalElite]

16. Except that -

he wants us to forget his last name so he's got a problem.

[Stuart G]

53. Well said...He is there, cause of last name..but forget it?????

WTF....

[bvf]

9. Yet more states' rights bullshit

I'll be interested to read how his meeting on Monday goes, if he doesn't cancel...

[asiliveandbreathe]

12. Perhaps jebbie is suggesting a minority report

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.....During the course of treatment, people learn how to identify and change destructive or disturbing thought patterns that have a negative influence on behavior -

Calling Dr. Backmann - considering the recent court case that found anti-hay therapy a fraud.....

Now, how many people do we know right now that would benefit from CBT......

[asiliveandbreathe]

13. oops - that was anti gay therapy...

[onehandle]

14. Gun trolls and Republicans are besties. nt

[GGJohn]

15. Same old, same old.

Dude, get some new platitudes, these are getting old.

[Hoyt]

27. Platitudes are often true.

[GGJohn]

29. No, Hoyt, they're not.

but if it floats your boat to believe it, then........................................

[Hoyt]

30. Yes they are. Gunners are a little sensitive though.

[GGJohn]

31. Funny,

that's not the way we see it, it's people like you that hurl the insults, platitudes, and ridiculous talking points.
But, as I said, if it floats your boat to believe that, then............................

[wordpix]

17. I know a young, mentally unstable young man and what would ! do about him if

he legally bought a gun? His parents can readily identify him as unstable, probably schizophrenic and having anger management issues but hospital mental health staff who evaluated him let him out the same day he went in b/c they deemed him sane.

I'm not sure if with this record he would be identified on a background check as ineligible for a gun permit, should he decide to buy one. My point is, if this young man is any indicator, there are people like him on the streets who shouldn't have guns but a short, spotty record might not get them identified.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. Jeb! is saying in a piddling way

that mentally ill or insane people should not own guns.

Uh, Jeb!? To those people, and to the sellers of firearms, this sounds an awful lot like gun control.

[villager]

26. Another type of denial, along with their climate denial....

And yet you see the same "head, meet sand hole" views here on this message board.

[restorefreedom]

28. way to feed the base, jebbie

sounds like he wants more invasive access to mental health records instead of something that makes sense like ubc's.

what a tool.

edit. i am of course ok with keeping guns away from the mentally ill, just sick of the rw wackos saying that that alone is the solution.

[MisterP]

33. every time more than 5 people get gunned down the country

(and especially its most race-baiting epigones) suddenly get all concerned about mental-health issues

for 7 or 10 days

[restorefreedom]

34. yeah even though they cut funding and want to "repeal" aca

dumbasses.

[Little Tich]

32. Jeb! Jeb? Jeb... n/t

[CBHagman]

35. "He said he would repeal the health care law if elected, replacing it with...

"...high-deductible, low-premium catastrophic coverage." Yep, sounds like someone who doesn't have to worry about making the deductible.

As for the language about preventing the potentially violent people from committing violence, it was vague, at least judging by the article. I'd hope reporters would actually hit him up for details, and here are a few starters:

Does this mean universal mental health screening? Beginning at what age? How is this to be paid for if insurance doesn't cover it? How do you ensure this happens in every state? Do you have a special plan for states with higher rates of gun deaths?

What about suicide in general? Are physicians supposed to screen for depression and inquire about gun ownership? You do know that Florida passed a law to discourage that, don't you?

[url]http://www.newsweek.com/florida-law-may-discourage-doctors-asking-patients-about-guns-324203[/url]

What about a case such as that of Adam Lanza? Were the members of the community supposed to perform an intervention and remove him from his mother's home? Remember that she was the gun owner and his first victim.

And speaking of first victims, what do experts on violence say about the odds of intervening before the first episode even happens?

I suspect, however, that in the main what Bush just said amounts to a few words on a single occasion and will probably never translate into action whether he becomes president or not. We've heard plenty of talk before about mental health from people who have the political, media, and financial power to make a start on major changes in this country, but somehow universal mental health is not the rallying cry of choice...

[moondust]

36. Yes, let's all become amateur psychiatrists!

We can dissect everything everybody says and does and determine if it's "normal" or not. Turn in all the weirdos we don't like and voila! Republican police state! What's not to like?!!

Let's get those bastards!!!!

[sorechasm]

47. Preventive psychoanalysis. That makes as much as the Preventative Wars to...

Prevent future wars, what's wrong with that?

If we were to pick out all those who may one day be mentally ill, lock 'me up,before they become a danger to us all.

Would a rich white man who thinks he's Hispanic qualify?

[moondust]

56. It is the opinion of this Uber Psychoanalyst that

yes, that carnival barker to which you presumably refer is first on the list once the purges get under way.

[SunSeeker]

38. Sure, these pastors love that "let's leave it to the states" argument.

That whole "states rights" thing has always worked out so well for African Americans.

[Sunlei]

39. NSA could round-up Conservative website readers and fox viewers for a start, eh Bush?

[6chars]

40. does he ever say something that he believes?

this is just spouting a line that will appeal to enough republicans to (he hopes) get him the nomination. bernie straight-shooter sanders he ain't.

[Paladin]

46. Nothing but namby-pamby platitudes from him, so far. (nt)

[Recursion]

42. Gun control probably won't stop mass shootings, but stopping mass shootings shouldn't be our goal

About 20 people die a year in mass shootings as opposed to 12,000 in non-mass shootings and 24,000 in suicides. If we could craft a gun control policy that stopped 0.16% of non-mass shootings, or 0.08% of suicides we would save more lives than with a policy that just stopped 100% of mass shootings.

It's a problem that we only get national conversations on gun control when a mass shooting happens, because I think they obscure the actual problem.

[DCBob]

45. +1

[CBHagman]

48. I'd be curious to know what specific efforts work to save lives...

...especially given all the complications of American life (e.g., access to treatment, role of guns in individual communities). Recently a friend of mine mentioned that his local school board wanted school windows of bulletproof glass and found they would be an expensive proposition due to the swift rate of deterioration. Meanwhile, one of the local students took a gun out into the woods and killed himself. I don't know at what point someone might have intervened and saved that young man's life or even if there were warning signs beforehand, but perhaps the first thing the United States needs to come to grips with is that suicide by gun is a national problem and we should be addressing that.

I'm fairly certain I've seen a PSA on accidental shootings, and an organization whose name I can't recall created an ad on the higher risk of suicide GLBT youth face, but I don't recall a general message about suicide risk and firearms.

[hollowdweller]

51. Bush is partly right and partly wrong.

A lot of the shooters had no record so they would pass a check.

However like the Charleston shooter? I thought his dad bought the gun and gave it to him.

I think the background check thing needs to be strengthened. I also think stuff like pistols and semi auto things should be harder to get. I don't think there should be banned or anything, but I do think that there should be a way to make it harder for people to buy these guns impulsively and have them lay around the house till something happens to them.

[Gore1FL]

52. If not "prevent," I'm good with "lessen." n/t

[Sunlei]

55. well Jeb Bush, you've been in politics a longtime..what did you say or do when over 200 churches bur

burned/bombed in the south????? hmmm??