The Latest: Merkel Says No Greek Deal 'at Any Price'

[GliderGuider]

Source: New York Times

German Chancellor Angela Merkel insists that there won't be a Greek deal later Sunday "at any price."

Arriving for an emergency summit of eurozone's leaders in Brussels, Merkel says "the most important currency has been lost: that is trust and reliability."

Merkel says the talks later will be "tough," adding that in any deal reached "the advantages outweigh the disadvantages both for the future of Greece and the eurozone as a whole and the principles of our cooperation."

Germany has taken a tough line on Greece over the past few weeks and has questioned whether the government of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras will deliver the reforms it has promised in exchange for a financial rescue package.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/12/world/europe/ap-eu-greece-bailout-the-latest.html

[Gore1FL]

1. I am glad she is willing to pay "any price" for letting Greece Fail...

It will be a big one...

[nxylas]

4. She won't pay the price

The 99% will, so it's a "tough decision", not "old-fashioned socialism" in the eyes of the opinion-makers.

[roguevalley]

32. Greece needs to re-submit the bill for World War II with interest that they forgave. Fuck Angela

Merkel.

[roamer65]

35. Maybe we need to threaten to reimpose war reparations.

Maybe that will snap her around a bit.

[hack89]

38. Who is the "we" that you speak of? Nt

[roamer65]

40. The signatories of the 1953 German debt forgiveness agreement in London.

That's who.

...and Greece was one of them.

[hack89]

42. That will never happen

I am not sure is there a good solution to this mess but stepping into the realm of fantasy certainly is not it. What many here refuse to accept is that Greece is isolated on this issue - most of the EU backs Germany.

[cstanleytech]

43. Sorry but even though you do not agree with merkel over refusing to immediately bail out

Greece yet again unless there is a clause when Greece signed that debt forgiveness to Germany way back when there are "no" take backs.

[roguevalley]

51. Given that no one gives a shit, I would resubmit the bill to Germany to shame them. They defaulted

on huge bills and now they lecture the world? I hope Greece does it for the moral shaming of Merkel that needs to be done.

[NobodyHere]

63. So Greece should try to shame Germany into giving them more money?

[PoliticAverse]

2. "Tsipras has spoken by phone with U.S. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew"

I'm surprised Lew or Yellen hasn't just cut Greece a check. What's another 50 billion bailout to the US?

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Greece isn't a bank

The money might help Proles.

Regards

TWN

[The Green Manalishi]

6. Bingo, Manny! EOM

[Igel]

11. Or be repaid.

The bank bailout wasn't all that expensive, to be honest, and helped Obama considerably.

That $800+ billion for TARP counted in creating the huge deficit in 2009, and Obama credited it all to Bush II. It was to be repaid with interest, that was the only way to get it approved and for all that people didn't like US-taxpayer money going to the banks. Obama disbursed most of it, but it was authorized under Bush II (half of it the last day of his term).

Then as TARP was repaid the TARP money was counted as revenue and reduced the deficit. Obama's deficit reduction or at least deficit limiting strategy was working. TARP did slightly better than break even, taking into account write-offs and interest income.

Oddly, that very much sounds like what the EU set up: Here's a bailout, but you get to repay it, with interest. The problem is that, unlike the banks, Greece didn't implement the required structural reforms. It's an open question as to what the EU would have done if the reforms had been implemented to no great effect, but in the absence of implementation the best Greece can do is say, "But models and their projections say the reforms wouldn't have worked."

And for all that, taxpayers in some countries didn't like their tax money going to Greece. Having flubbed repayment and having said "no" to refinancing, I can understand why there's reluctance to bailout Greece.

[RiverNoord]

24. That would be a dangerous line to cross, and I'm sure it's already been decided.

Interfering like that in a vitally important European Union matter would make the EU look like an American client. On the other hand, if there really was a Grexit and the Greeks were suffering miserably, humanitarian support would be on the table.

[MannyGoldstein]

48. The QEs? Buying bad assets?

0% interest rates?

Did those turn a profit? (For the 99%, that is.)

[FLPanhandle]

34. Fuck that.

We need the money here.

[jwirr]

5. If she wants to talk tough why doesn't she join Greece in a lawsuit of Goldman Sachs? Oh but

they have money.

[turbinetree]

7. Austerity

Austerity= a failed state= libertarian concept of removing the pension and blaming the masses =giving tax breaks to the wealthy and there cronies (Goldman Sach's of the world) = lets think, Kansas (Brownback), Wisconsin (Walker), and other libertarian right wingers of the conservative ilk, having this Greek model being implemented in this country and using Greece has an example and as the whipping child model as to what is wrong.
Look no further than what this right wing Congress is doing in this country with there austerity attacks on, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, infrastructure job creation, defense spending (spend more) bringing the southern business model into the country, no benefits, contract workers, and no protections-----------just like in Greece.

Honk -----------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

[cstanleytech]

61. Let me ask you something though. How are supposed to keep paying the pensioners, the government

workers and all the rest though? Print their own? I suppose they could then there is a problem, the money would be considered virtually worthless by most of the world and Greece imports most of its food these days and that takes........money.

[DCBob]

8. I am a bit surprised by this.

I thought the deal was very close to being done. I suspect this is still posturing to force the Greeks to give in more.

[still_one]

13. I am surprised also, because the deal was even more austere than the first one. Yesterday, Finland

was against any deal also

[magical thyme]

37. Finland has been in recession for 8 years now

courtesy of the Euro.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/the-finnish-disease/
The Finnish Disease

For Finns, the great depression they remember is the slump at the beginning of the 1990s, driven by a combination of a bursting housing bubble and the collapse of the Soviet Union next door. The result was a very nasty slump, and a delayed recovery. But this time, although the slump in per capita GDP never got quite as deep, has been far more persistent:

Why can’t Finland recover this time? Debt is not a problem; borrowing costs are very low. But it’s all about the euro straitjacket. In 1990 the country could and did devalue, achieving a rapid gain in competitiveness. This time not, so that there is no quick way to adjust to adverse shocks:

This shouldn’t come as a surprise; it’s the core of the classic Milton Friedman argument for flexible exchange rates, and in turn for the tradeoff at the core of optimum currency area theory. The trouble in Finland is what everyone expected to go wrong with the euro.
What’s going on in Greece represents a whole additional level of hurt, which nobody saw coming. But it’s important, I think, to realize that even countries that didn’t borrow a lot, didn’t experience large capital inflows, basically did nothing wrong by the official criteria, are nonetheless suffering in a major way.

[roamer65]

9. More heavy handed bullying from Germany.

I am now convinced we made a mistake letting Germany reunify.

She has just signed the death warrant of the Eurozone and the EU. Time for Greece, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to get out of the Euro.

[still_one]

12. "We made a mistake letting Germany reunify". Whose choice was it? Whose country is it?

Finland also made a similar statement yesterday, actually stronger according to the Guardian.

[Igel]

14. And it sounds like some misparsing of Merkel's statement.

Is there going to be a deal on Sunday? "Not at any price."

Does that mean there's not going to be a deal? That's not what it means, but the deal won't be on Sunday. In fact, her words sound like she's expecting a deal later, after Greece has taken other steps. And those other steps are required first because of Greece's loss of credibility--money now, reforms later ... still later.


Sounds like Finland's rep, speaking based on what was handed to him (her?) on Friday, has had his info updated a bit. That's good.

[still_one]

16. Yesterday I had the impression it was all about Finland being the one blocking the deal, so now I am

throughly confused.

[pscot]

22. Not, "at any price"

I take that to mean they are wiling to pay a price, but not just any price; i.e. too high a price.

[closeupready]

49. Yep. Markets want a resolution before opening on Monday.

Banks are likely getting pushy with her, and she's annoyed. That's all this is, IMO.

[roamer65]

17. There were real worries about it in 1990.

As I read once, France's price upon Germany for reunification was currency union and participation in a United Europe. It was deal established by Kohl and Mitterand. Germany is now violating that agreement with France. Mitterand made a mistake trusting the Germans.

[still_one]

21. and the history of the France has shown their integrity also? Quite a few of the French people

during WWII had no problem aligning themselves with nazi Germany at the time.

[roamer65]

33. Remember "America First"? N/t

[tabasco]

19. Oh bullshit.

German taxpayers are footing the bill for these bail outs and Merkel answers to her electorate. I don't blame the Germans for being pissed off.

[roamer65]

26. So are French, British, Danish, Italian...etc taxpayers as well.

So I call bullshit on you.

Given their history, Germany owes it to the rest of Europe to be fair and compassionate. Otherwise we will start to see the REAL trust deficit reappear in Europe.

[FLPanhandle]

36. I call B.S.

The current taxpayers in Germany don't owe anything to the rest of Europe.

Fuck that whole "sins of the father passing down to the next generations" shit.

[RiverNoord]

25. Well, Greece does owe Germany 62 billion Euros directly

and Germany has funded Greece's bailouts to a vastly greater extent than other nations, with France being a moderately distant second. The German population is really weary of Greece's wavering on its commitments, legitimate basis for it or not. If she doesn't talk tough, she may fall as Chancellor.

There are a lot of (not just German) heavy hitters who want a Grexit, and it's probably the case that the Euro and Eurozone would survive, and possibly come out healthier in 5+ years. Or not. But Merkel is walking a tightrope right now for her political future, and if she fell over this the next chancellor would not be any more to our liking.

[still_one]

10. I thought it was Finland, at least that is what the Guardian was saying yesterday

[cemaphonic]

56. A bunch of countries are way more hardline on the Greece issue than Germany

Finland, Malta, Slovakia, the Baltic states. It's just that Germany is by far the most influential (as well as being by far the most affected by the cost) on the anti-bailout side.

[Yo_Mama]

15. A deal was reached overnight. It's going back to the Greek parliament

There is going to be a list of laws they have to pass to enforce certain measures, and apparently one of the main remaining issues is whether the state assets will be allocated to a trust fund securing, at least in part, Euro creditors.

But the Greek parliament will be given a list of laws they have to pass this week.

[still_one]

18. Do you have a link, because this headline OP from the NY Times says differently. Of course the

NY Times told us there were WMDs in Iraq also, so maybe.............

[candelista]

28. The headline is deceptive.

See my post below.

[still_one]

50. Thanks, good thing I didn't short the EURO. ( bad joke )

[Yo_Mama]

55. They are all foreign language.

FAZ.net has very good coverage.

This is a much bigger deal in Europe than it is here, so I am reading the European newspapers for updates.

The three day deadline (Wednesday) has been consistently reported:
http://www.elboletin.com/internacional/119447/eurogrupo-tres-dias-grecia-reformas.html

Stubb (Finnish Finance Minister) is jabbering to everyone who will talk to him about this.

El Pais reports that the Greeks are going to get 86 billion if they comply, and that the deal is about done.
http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2015/07/12/actualidad/1436712440_136211.html

El Eurogrupo ha alcanzado este domingo un principio de acuerdo, con medidas más duras, que allana el camino para un pacto definitivo con Grecia, según las fuentes consultadas en la reunión de ministros de Finanzas del euro. "Hay pacto. Grecia acepta las condiciones ante la pésima situación de su economía y sus bancos, que van a seguir cerrados dos semanas más", han explicado a este diario fuentes del Eurogrupo. Los socios elevan finalmente hasta 86.000 millones las necesidades de financiación de Grecia. Apuntan que son imprescindibles 7.000 millones antes del 20 de julio, la fecha límite para pagar un vencimiento fundamental de deuda al BCE, y 5.000 más a mediados de agosto. Los bancos necesitarán al final 25.000 millones. Y los ministros, en definitiva, ponen numerosos deberes a Atenas, que deberá aprobar legislación antes del miércoles y endurecer de lo lindo su propuesta. "Grecia acepta; no tiene otra opción", ha asegurado a EL PAÍS un ministro a la salida de la reunión.

That says the outlines of the deal are completed, Greece accepts because it has no othe option, 86 billion is needed - 25 billion for the banks. Many requirements imposed on Athens, which must pass legislation by (before, in this story) Wednesday, in order to close the deal.

http://it.reuters.com/ always has excellent coverage of finanicial issues. It reports that the final deadline is Wednesday, July 15th, to close the deal. Stubb is the one reporting this. This one says that if the Greek parliament doesn't ante up in time, there is no deal and no option for Greece but to leave the Euro.

http://it.reuters.com/article/topNews/idITKCN0PM0OS20150712

[enlightenment]

31. Your last sentence actually sent a shiver down my spine.

But the Greek parliament will be given a list of laws they have to pass this week.

"Given" a list of laws "they have to pass".

What a horrifying end for the nation that gave the world the concept of democracy.

[goldent]

67. "they have to pass"

if they want the money

[still_one]

20. Here is the BBC's perspective

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33499650

[candelista]

23. Misleading headline.

It's ambiguous. If you read it one way, it makes it look like Merkel is saying that she won't agree to a bailout no matter what. If you read it another way, it makes it look like she is saying that there is a limit to the price she will pay for an agreement.

In context, it is clear she means the latter:

But she warned that there would be "no agreement at any price", adding: "We have to make sure the pros outweigh the cons - for Greece's future, for the entire eurozone and the principles of our collaboration."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33499650

Incidentally, there is no such headline at the link. It was invented by the poster.

[RiverNoord]

27. Yep, very misleading.

it does help to actually read the source material .

[RiverNoord]

30. In fact, the context makes it clear that what she said was

that she wouldn't go along with an agreement of the 'we must do this, whatever the price' sort. So, not really unreasonable for her to say, especially as her country is Greece's biggest creditor, and German banks are not far behind.

[GliderGuider]

39. It's a live link. That was the headline when I posted the article.

It has since been superseded.

[candelista]

46. Well, it's still misleading.

Why don't you fix it?

Or not.

[geek tragedy]

29. Merkel faces considerable opposition to a deal from her own parliament

Her position is a lot more delicate than some imagine.

Germany is also a democracy, and their voters believe in this austerity crap.

[FLPanhandle]

41. German taxpayers don't want to be continually funding Greece

Greece has an easy way out of austerity. Go after the the wealthy, implement real tax reform, go after tax cheaters hard, and stop exempting lucrative industries (like shipping) from any taxes.

Germany taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for Greek benefits that they themselves don't get.

[PoliticAverse]

45. Apparently it's going to take more suffering before they get real serious on the tax issue. n/t

[roamer65]

44. Mr. Tsipras needs to step aside and let Mr. Varoufakis in as PM.

Use Argentina as your model, Yanis. He has the guts to do it and bring Greece back from the brink.

Tell the Troika to go fuck themselves.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. An unhelpfully ambiguous headline from AP/the NYT

It would seem that what she meant was that she is not willing to say "we must have a deal; we'll pay whatever prices it takes to get one". But you might interpret the headline, as reply #1 did, as "I will pay any price to make sure there is no deal". Add in that this was probably in translation, and I think this is a really unhelpful article.

[Beauregard]

57. In spoken English the ambiguity is avoided by difference in stress.

I won't take the deal at any price. (I won't take it no matter what price you offer me.)

I won't take the deal at any price. (I won't take it unless I get a good price.)

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. Time for a Grexit. nt

[CTyankee]

53. I think it might be time to re-examine the Euro...

As Paul Krugman has warned there is a real problem when you can't borrow in your own currency. The UK didn't want to join it...

[roamer65]

58. Smartest move the Brits ever made was staying out of the EMU.

[CTyankee]

59. but maybe it was more that they just "couldn't" give up the pound sterling...I get that.

Also, psychological distance with the Channel. Seems insignificant but it isn't.

[DonCoquixote]

54. heh. Deustchland uber alles" eh Angela

Angela Merkel may very well go down in Hisotry as the woman who trashed the Euro, and the very idea if European union. Granted, the English and French will have more than enough to be written about (especially the maastrict which started the bleeding), but London, Paris and Berlin had better pray that Moscow and Beijing do not simply deice it is time for the Divas to get knocked off the stage.

[hughee99]

60. Without Germany forcing austerity on them, the Greeks can finally handle this situation

in a way that is agreeable to the Greek people.

[cstanleytech]

62. Germany didnt force it, the Greek government did by spending more and more money it didnt have over

the years and borrowing more and more to keep doing it and that type of thing can only go so far before you hit bottom and Greece has hit bottom.

[hughee99]

64. Yes, I agree. I was being a little sarcastic with that statement.

Greece has serious problems that they haven't been addressing, and while I'm not sure austerity will fix anything, if you pour a bunch of money into an economy with significant issues with corruption and serious problems with tax collection, I'm not sure that's going to fix anything either. The voters and the politicians seem to believe that if they just get a very large stimulus package and debt forgiveness, it will fix the economy, but in my opinion, it will only temporarily mask their underlying issues that have yet to be adequately addressed.

[cstanleytech]

65. At this point they pretty dont have a choice atleast not any better ones.

If they say screw you to the debt holders on doing the reforms and try to go their own way then almost no one would trust them to lend them money and they need money to buy things like food most of which they import.
Russia might try to be their friend and agree to lend them the money for certain concessions like a military port or base but then again the Ukraine was friends with Russia and made a deal with Russia to provide them with a port and we saw what Russia treated its dear friend like by annexing the Crimean Peninsula and trying to take over the eastern part of the country with some sock puppets its claiming are rebels.

[nolabels]

66. Sort of like when the junkie asks for another hit from the supply

This just another story in the storied escapades of Goldman-Sachs