Obama: Attacking Jews Over Iran Deal Like Saying He's 'Not Black Enough'
Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama said people who attack Jews who support the Iran nuclear deal are like African-Americans who differ with him on policy and then conclude he's "not black enough."
Obama, in an interview with the Jewish newspaper "Forward," was asked whether it hurt him personally when people say he's anti-Semitic.
"Oh, of course," Obama said. "And there's not a smidgeon of evidence for it, other than the fact that there have been times when I've disagreed with a particular Israeli government's position on a particular issue."
The president added, though, that he's "probably more offended when I hear members of my administration who themselves are Jewish being attacked. You saw this historically sometimes in the African-American community, where there's a difference on policy and somebody starts talking about, 'Well, you're not black enough,' or 'You're selling out.' And that, I think, is always a dangerous place to go."
-snip-
Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/obama-iran-deal-jews
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AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)
Flatpicker
(894 posts)if it's acceptable to be for Israel yet against Bibi's policies?
Is there a distinction in American Politics between Israel's current government and Israel as an entity? It seems that we conflate the 2 when we discuss.
enough
(13,259 posts)Considering I fall into this label
Response to Flatpicker (Reply #2)
Name removed Message auto-removed
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)For too long Israel has had a right-wing government that has tried to stir up trouble. I remember not too long ago there was a moderate in office, but I think he was assassinated (Sharon?). I hope the people there eventually see what the hardline stance they are voting for is doing to not only their country, but others.
Every country has right-wing nutballs: Sweden, Greece, Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. Stupidity really knows know boundaries.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)And THAT, is a major problem.
Did YOUR post set off "Alert" complaints?
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)No, not to my knowledge.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He was the one who was assassinated.
That's what I meant.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Dislike bibi with every fiber of my being but still support Israel. So acceptable or not - I'm betting a lot of us feel this way.
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)"Obama, in the "Forward" interview, said that while those who care about Israel have an obligation to be honest about what they think, "you don't win the debate by suggesting that the other person has bad motives. That's, I think, not just consistent with fair play; I think it's consistent with the best of the Jewish tradition.""
It works both ways!
President Obama!
On a lighter note, Obama was asked about his bagel of choice.
He described himself as "always a big poppy seed guy." As for toppings, he added: "lox and capers OK, but generally just your basic schmear," referring to a smear of cream cheese.
Oh Mr. President...smh...capers? No!
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Israel To U.S.: Don't Delay Iraq Attack
vkkv
(3,384 posts)That's the "And".
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)It was about accusing Jews of being disloyal because of how they voted. So your comment is irrelevant, but wholly expected.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)And that's what the subject is, right? It's about some Jews targeting at other Jews re: Iran deal, essentially saying "you aren't Jewish enough".
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)At least you did see it. It is the same on the left too.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)around here that is pretty rancid. How about you?
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)You got that right
Behind the Aegis
(53,961 posts)In a thread in which Obama correctly chastises people for attacking Jews on their positions regarding this situation in general, we are witnessing it here!
vkkv
(3,384 posts)It is the only NATION of ISRAEL that attacks their neighbors and lobbys for political favor.
But it's always (poor us!) Jews who are attacked from anti-semites. And naturally, anyone else who attacks Israel for any reason are also anti-semites for attacking (poor us!) Jews and it's NEVER the fault of the Jewish people, of course!
Americans ask, where are the moderate Muslims?
Someone needs to ask, where are the moderate Israelis?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Take a deep breath and try again.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Got it.. wew boy...
Scoot, my comment is exactly what Obama was saying when he said in response to""whether it hurt him personally when people say he's anti-Semitic.""" Obama said::
""" other than the fact that there have been times when I've disagreed with a particular Israeli government's position on a particular issue." """"
I said::"""It is the only NATION of ISRAEL that attacks their neighbors and lobbys for political favor.
But it's always (poor us!) Jews who are attacked from anti-semites. And naturally, anyone else who attacks Israel for any reason are also anti-semites for attacking (poor us!) Jews and it's NEVER the fault of the Jewish people, of course! """"
Get real! Just stop whining, alright?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)See, you're lugging two problems around here.
First, "Jews" and "Israel" are not synonyms. They're not one and the same. You are writing as if you believe they are, which I hope is simply a lapse of language or something.
Second, Israel's record with regard to its neighbors isn't even a part of this topic. Rather it's in regard to the efforts by some very shady people to "De-Jew" those Jewish politicians who agree with the Obama administration's iran deal.
And I suppose a third would be the near-hysteria with which you appear to be posting (Lots of all-caps words and exclamation points, you know) which really does result in a stylistic detraction from any point you may be making.
As for my "whining"? I'm suggesting you pause, camlp yourself down, and have a good think about what you're saying.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Ah, but the politics of Israel attempts to blur the line of separation to their advantage. It is ISRAEL who does the attacking and bombing of innocent Palesinians. But then ISRAEL turns color and becomes 'us poor Jewish people are being attacked by anti-semites' whenever they seek political favors, sympathy or political cover.
My thinking is not unlike many Americans, time to get used to it. Isreal is more of a terrorist nation than Iran at this point.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)Who says crap like that?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and disgusting brush you're using to tag ALL Jews. I find it repulsive. Let's see who Israel is attacking these days - they're targeting hamas for sending rockets into southern Israel and targeting Syria for firing rockets into northern Israel. Should they just stand by and let themselves get killed or just let isis stroll into Jerusalem to blow up whatever temple, church or Shiite mosque they wish? Moderate Israeli's speak out every day (I'm not surprised you haven't noticed). Dozens of generals, intelligence officials and other politicians speak out for the Iran deal every day. How could you have missed that? It's been posted right here.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)or this is decades of this. The day Israel was recognized it was attacked by several countries but goes back further based on 'divide and conquer' logic with the whole Sykes-Picot "Spheres of Influence".
Following the outbreak of World War I, Zionism was first discussed at a British Cabinet level on 9 November 1914, four days after Britain's declaration of war on the Ottoman Empire. At a Cabinet meeting David Lloyd George, Chancellor of the Exchequer, "referred to the ultimate destiny of Palestine."[8][9] Lloyd George's law firm Lloyd George, Roberts and Co had been engaged a decade before by the Zionists to work on the Uganda Scheme.[10] In a discussion after the meeting with fellow Zionist Herbert Samuel, who had a seat in the Cabinet as President of the Local Government Board, Lloyd George assured him that "he was very keen to see a Jewish state established in Palestine."[8][11] Samuel then outlined the Zionist position more fully in a conversation with Foreign Secretary Edward Grey. He spoke of Zionist aspirations for the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish state, and of the importance of its geographical position to the British Empire. Samuel's memoirs state: "I mentioned that two things would be essential—that the state should be neutralized, since it could not be large enough to defend itself, and that the free access of Christian pilgrims should be guaranteed. ... I also said it would be a great advantage if the remainder of Syria were annexed by France, as it would be far better for the state to have a European power as neighbour than the Turk"[8][12] The same evening, Prime Minister H. H. Asquith announced that the dismemberment of the Turkish Empire had become a war aim in a speech for the Lord Mayor's Banquet at the Mansion House, "It is the Ottoman Government, and not we who have rung the death knell of Ottoman dominion not only in Europe but in Asia."[13]
In January 1915, Samuel submitted a Zionist memorandum entitled The Future of Palestine to the Cabinet after discussions with Weizmann and Lloyd George. On 5 February 1915, Samuel had another discussion with Grey: "When I asked him what his solution was he said it might be possible to neutralize the country under international guarantee ... and to vest the government of the country in some kind of Council to be established by the Jews"[14][15] After further conversations with Lloyd George and Grey, Samuel circulated a revised text to the Cabinet in mid-March 1915.
Zionism or the Jewish question were not considered by the report of the De Bunsen Committee, prepared to determine British wartime policy toward the Ottoman Empire, submitted in June 1915.[11]
Prior to Sykes's departure to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Sazonov in Petrograd on 27 February 1916, Sykes was approached with a plan by Samuel. The plan Samuel put forward was in the form of a memorandum which Sykes thought prudent to commit to memory and then destroy.[citation needed] Commenting on it, Sykes wrote to Samuel suggesting that if Belgium should assume the administration of Palestine it might be more acceptable to France as an alternative to the international administration which she wanted and the Zionists did not. Of the boundaries marked on a map attached to the memorandum he wrote:[8]
(there is much more on this but this sums it up well)
Eighty-five years later, in a 2002 interview with The New Statesman, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw observed "A lot of the problems we are having to deal with now, I have to deal with now, are a consequence of our colonial past. ... The Balfour Declaration and the contradictory assurances which were being given to Palestinians in private at the same time as they were being given to the Israelis—again, an interesting history for us but not an entirely honourable one."[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement#British.E2.80.93Zionist_discussions_during_the_negotiations
My point is I agree with your first comments but do agree there is both ways as far as there is and exists opposition to Israel due to Anti-Semitism while the only thing he said entire thread I agree with Israel or government officials for whatever purpose serves their desired response will say this because of Anti-Semitism but isn't universal either way. Right now though it is far past the point of anyone on any side on however many divide and conquer sides there are of standing by and whoever strolling by. Just a cycle of violence of oppression that continues to be reinforced and victims on all the sides which leads to more of what we see.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah (just to illustrate there is more to what is going on that meets the eye)
I wish I could care how Israel came to exist but I honestly don't. Europeans were smart enough to realize that too many of their own Jews - the ones that didn't die - wouldn't really want to go back to the countries that handed them over to the nazis after stealing everything from them. The fact that the Palestinians were offered a state and decided to fight instead is a fact that gets lost in all the madness. I've always been for a 2 state solution but Arafat was busy stealing all the money to be a serious partner and I detest bibi who I think has been horrible for Israel - he only got elected because hamas was elected by the Gazans. I get to see what the situation there is for myself next month - I'm taking a two week vacation there.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)corporate subsidies to whoever the highest bidders are but we are perceived as "serious partners" but generally I view the vast majority of leaders as corrupt but the Arabian Peninsula countries which are the worst dictatorships in the world with Kuwait not as bad with Sudan & Afghanistan in the same league turned their backs for donations because of "sympathy for Iraq" I apparently came across. 'Right of return' was a major point of contention but in any case it was negotiation that both sides couldn't come to agreement with the other side's offer, Israel was offered a two-state solution too but with whatever the land is named all the people there should be citizens and fair and equal participation in the government free of brutal oppression and discrimination.
With me and that isn't lost but overall I favor equal participation to anyone and everyone for all countries so either way with two states or this or that discrimination, oppression, racism, and other prejudices would need to end and this goes for everywhere. Israel has Jordan to the right to them which is like the spy capital of the region so who knows what is going there (outside of hosting the largest number of 'renditions') or coming out such as black flag terror groups in Al-Anbar province or things missing like millions unaccounted from DynCorp in Jordan to train "Iraqi Police" while money unaccounted for is probably used for the 'black budget'. That is problem to them as well plus the House of Saud and friends are problems for everyone or don't see any positive reason to enable or empower them especially if the goal is to decrease "terrorism".
This is something recent how the US intelligence perceives Isreali intelligence
--
In this new document, Israel was identified by the NSA as a security threat in several areas, including “the threat of development of weapons of mass destruction” and “delivery methods (particularly ballistic and nuclear-capable cruise missiles).” The NSA also flagged Israel’s “WMD and missile proliferation activities” and “cruise missiles” as threats.
In a section of the document headed “Foreign Intelligence, Counterintelligence; Denial & Deception Activities: Countering Foreign Intelligence Threats,” Israel was listed as a leading perpetrator of “espionage/intelligence collection operations and manipulation/influence operations…against U.S. government, military, science & technology and Intelligence Community” organs.
The term “manipulation/influence operations” refers to covert attempts by Israel to sway U.S. public opinion in its favor. In this, Israel has dubious company, according to the NSA: Other leading threats were listed as China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, France, Venezuela and South Korea.
Israel has similar company in threats against U.S. infrastructure, according to the NSA document. Under a section headed “Mastering Cyberspace and Preventing an Attack on U.S. Critical Information Systems,” Israel, India, North Korea and Cuba are identified as “FIS [financial/banking system] threats.” Israel also appears on the list of countries believed by the NSA to be “enabling” electronic warfare “producers/proliferators.”
http://www.newsweek.com/israel-flagged-top-spy-threat-us-new-snowdennsa-document-262991
Again with the explaining how Israel was created was simply trying to point out but the comment the person made "the problems we have today" is why because of the history. There is a perception of "occupation". The 18th century is relevant to the what is going in the region, very relevant, particular in how it pertains to ISIS or a Saudi Arabia. But the point attempting to make with that is the first shot was fired a long time ago.
I think Israel as a government -- there is a lot more they could do to improve the situation so hence the focus on them but there are a lot of outside influences from everywhere with the US a major one and everyone else there has to deal with outside influence working against their interests and so on and so on. A lot of false flag attacks from everyone and Israel has had some notable ones (USS Liberty). Info on discrimination below if care or don't care information is there but I think these are the areas to focus on that could influence positive change. Again though there are more troubling governments particularly with freedoms and human rights violations I tend to focus on more myself. I don't say much on I/P issues myself generally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)It had been alerted before and the jurors decided to keep it. This is typical around here.
That doesn't make it any less an example of bigotry
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)It is obvious that there are too many weasels here pushing the alert button instead taking a lump of their own medicine.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and am thoroughly disgusted it was left stand. I find that post repulsive and once again I'm thankful DU doesn't represent Democrats let alone the entire nation.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Are you for a two-state solution? Netanyahu is not.
Face it, Netanyahu is a war-monger. He is the face of Israel. Don't take the POLITICAL offenses as being against Jews. They are not, at least, not until Jews turned international politics INTO AN OFFENSE AGAINST THEIR RELIGION - and THAT, is the problem. It's always about being persecuted instead of facing the facts that Israel politically, is a bigger A-hole of a nation than the U.S. Israel is a terrorist nation more so than the U.S. is - and the U.S. is. Israel didn't win the land, it was handed to them by the U.N. The land belonged to the Ottoman Empire before the U.S. partioned the land to both Isreal and for Palestinians. Israel illegally expanded on and on into mapped out Palestinian soil.
Lefty, you seem to taking offense as Jewish person ( I 'm guessing, or else my words wouldn't be such a big deal to you) as expected I suppose, RATHER than spending the time and energy coming up with a fair two-state diplomatic solution and taking a stand for it and middle-east peace.
The fact that you created an alert only supports my point even more.
American people are waking up to the charade.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You aren't even worthy of the time it would take to put you on ignore.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)And NO the world isn't becoming more anti-semite, but the world is getting tired of the terrorist nation of Israel.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/auschwitz-showers_55e55415e4b0aec9f3546077
Good luck "ALERTING" the monitors there..
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)Thanks for the thread, DonViejo.