VW, Porsche, Audi 3.0-liter diesels also have 'defeat devices,' EPA says

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: Automotive News

1:17 pm U.S. ET | Nov. 2

Ryan Beene
http://www.twitter.com/RyanBeeneAN
Automotive News
November 2, 2015 - 1:17 pm ET -- UPDATED: 11/2/15 2:02 pm ET - adds details

WASHINGTON -- The EPA said more Volkswagen Group vehicles in the U.S. have been found with illegal software that masked higher emissions than allowed by law.

The agency said several VW, Porsche and Audi nameplates with 3.0-liter diesel engines have been found with "defeat device" software. Previously, the probe had been limited to VW and Audi vehicles with 2.0-liter diesel engines.

The agency today issued a new Notice of Violation to Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche saying that the 2014 VW Touareg, 2015 Porsche Cayenne and 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L and Q5 crossover with 3.0-liter diesel engines contained the illegal defeat devices.

"The EPA's investigation into this matter is continuing," the notice said. "The EPA may find additional violations as the investigation continues."
....

You can reach Ryan Beene at [e-mail].

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20151102/OEM01/151109977/vw-porsche-audi-3-0-liter-diesels-also-have-defeat-devices-epa-says

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When it rains, it pours:

VW failed to report death, 3 injuries linked to vehicles to NHTSA

Jeff Green, Margaret Cronin Fisk and Jeff Plungis
November 2, 2015 - 6:34 am ET

WASHINGTON (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG failed to report at least one death and three injuries involving its vehicles to a U.S. regulator’s database designed to save lives by spotting possible defects.

Lawsuits concerning the accidents, filed over the last eight years, weren’t found in records kept by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration in searches by Bloomberg and financial adviser Stout Risius Ross Inc. Automakers are required by law to report all claims of possible vehicle defects to the NHTSA database.

Volkswagen said Oct. 23 it will commission an outside audit of its compliance with U.S. safety-reporting laws. Honda Motor Co. and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles’ U.S. unit have said this year they underreported claims to the same database, and Honda was fined.

“You have to give the consumer enough of the facts to put the pieces together,” said Rebecca Lindland, senior director of commercial insights for Kelley Blue Book, the vehicle-data provider. “If you underreport on safety, then you’re talking about actually taking people’s lives in your hands. There’s a need for transparency whether it’s good, bad or ugly.”

[dembotoz]

1. well there goes german engineering

[Blue_Tires]

5. Well, we'll always have our boys in Munich -- They'll never betray us!

[unblock]

6. i think this says more about their ethics than their engineering....

[Fred Sanders]

2. Next up, Mercedes and BMW.....where are the criminal indictments?

"Clean Diesel" claims were just too good to be....cough...cough...true.

[eggplant]

4. Not sure how you get from VW to Mercedes and BMW. n/t

[Angel Martin]

19. Bosch programmed the emissions defeat

Not sure how you get from VW to Mercedes and BMW.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bosch-could-get-drawn-into-volkswagen-emissions-litigation-1443811383

Bosch supplies the diesel fuel system components and software to many OEMs

Maybe VAG/Porsche are the only ones that have been naughty, but given some of the roadside emissions tests by the UK and others, the emission levels are too high for it just to be VAG/P

Continental now involved as well

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151005/ANE/151009926/continental-defends-software-caught-up-in-vw-emissions-crisis

[eggplant]

20. Interesting.

I can see a scenario where Bosch provided software that could (hypothetically) be easily modified, and the VW folks did so. VW engineers did admit to putting the cheat in. Whether Bosch made that particularly easy for them remains to be seen. If Bosch did, then it definitely increases the odds that other OEMs did the same.

I'm reminded of the time I saw Penn and Teller perform back in the late '80s. (Wow, I'm old.) In the lobby of the theater, they had this large wooden crate covered in graffiti and a sign that read "Please examine but do not write on the crate with the supplied markers." (It was used later in the show, and people who had signed it were asked to come up and verify that it was the same crate.)

[Drahthaardogs]

12. Diesel fuel is less toxic than gasoline.

It burns dirtier because of particulate, but from a toxicity standpoint, it is a cleaner fuel. Lighter fraction hydrocarbons are more toxic. Gasoline is usually a five or six carbon chain, with a lot of BTEX. Diesel is usually a ten or twelve carbon chain with much less BTEX.

[Fred Sanders]

13. That is like saying the spawn of Satan are less evil than Satan.

[Drahthaardogs]

14. That is a really dumb statement

and on par with the Rush Limbaugh opposite opinion that we should drive SUVs as much as we can. Diesel fuel is more environmentally friendly in a lot of ways. We all drive. Diesels are less toxic and get better mileage per gallon. The new parafins in modern diesel fuel are even better.

Finding less bad alternatives is never a horrible thing unless you feel like walking, biking, or riding a horse everywhere.

[Fred Sanders]

15. I like walking and biking, but there are by-laws against riding horses everywhere where I live.

[jmowreader]

3. Color me shocked

I figure if VW did an illegal emissions fix on one model of their diesel engine, they did it on all of them.

[abelenkpe]

7. Of course Audi

VW and Audi same company.

[chapdrum]

8. So what?

As if any of this will result in anything other than fines (which its insurer will pay).

A given government would fund a program to have other automakers hire putatively displaced
VW/Audi/Porsche workers, and put these scumbags out of business (which really should have happened
after WWII).

Not going to happen.

[eggplant]

21. I have a hard time imagining an insurance company paying out for VW's intentional fraud. n/t

[Fumesucker]

9. This may be the end of diesel cars and give a good boost to electric, hybrid and fuel cell vehicles

I know I'll be looking side eyed at any diesel cars from now on.

[roody]

10. VW makes a diesel hybrid.

I hope my 2004 TDI is legit.

[BigDemVoter]

11. I bet VW as a brand is f*_ked. . . .

I have a 2012 VW TDI, and it's definitely on the list for a recall. With the new revelations, it's hard to see how anybody will ever trust them again.

Even if they do a "buy back", they won't pay the sticker price for the cars, and it will be a burden on me, as my car is paid for, and I don't want to have to buy another vehicle and have more car payments. I'm curious to see what they are going to do.

[cstanleytech]

16. I doubt this will kill the company much like the BP oil spill didnt kill BP because

lets face it more often than not the fines are a drop in the bucket compared to the profits they earn.

[fasttense]

17. Capitalism at its best

You always have a competitive advantage if you cheat. Fraud and crime are a prerequisite for success in a capatalist economic system.

[Angel Martin]

18. no environmental problems in socialist countries ?

Fraud and crime are a prerequisite for success in a capitalist (sic) economic system.

we'll see how much "success" Porsche/Audi/VW have in the next few years.

emissions problems have now spread to gasoline powered vehicles...

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/03/news/volkswagen-scandal-carbon-dioxide-fuel-consumption/