Turkey detains 8 Europe-bound IS suspects 'posing as refugees'

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: AFP

Istanbul (AFP) - Turkish police detained eight suspected members of the Islamic State jihadist (IS) group, state media said Wednesday, adding they were planning to sneak into Europe posing as refugees.

Counter-terror police detained the suspects in Istanbul's Ataturk Airport after they flew in from the Moroccan city of Casablanca on Tuesday, the official Anatolia news agency reported.

The police found a hand-written note on one of the suspects detailing a migration route from Istanbul to Germany via Greece, Serbia and Hungary, including smuggler boats across the Mediterranean Sea, as well as several train and bus journeys.

The eight men told police that they were just tourists who had been planning to spend a few days in Istanbul and had booked rooms at a hotel, but no reservations were found under their names.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-detains-8-europe-bound-suspects-posing-refugees-112604479.html

[leftynyc]

1. The real refugees are

screwed. Rightly or wrongly, Americans are not going to risk taking in people who may want to blow us up. When humans are making the determination, it is, by definition, flawed.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

2. There are ways to minimize the risk

Muslim families with young children. The elderly. Christians. Yasidis. Etc.

[leftynyc]

7. You'll never convince

the bed wetting drama queen cowards that inhabit the right wing that those young children wont grow up to be jihadists. They're imbeciles.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

9. Actually, that is a concern

The terrorists in Europe were homegrown - likely 2nd generation immigrants.

Face it - fundamentalists sometimes have trouble playing in the secular sandbox of modern societies. Add in poverty, and it's a recipe for disaster.

How many of these refugees will be well educated enough to get good paying jobs? Or will they be raising their children in poverty and grow resentful of their new country?

[LisaL]

13. The same happened in the US in Boston marathon bombing.

The two perps arrived in US as children.

[Angel Martin]

16. a common profile of the radicalized muslim in the West

if you look at radicalized muslims who grew up in the West, a pattern i see over and over:

muslim parents - first generation, not particularly religious
middle income family or better, actual career prospects
normal western kid thru teenage years, not particularly religious
dramatic religious conversion in late teens or early 20's,
within a few months becomes extremely devout, starts wearing traditional clothing, stops drinking etc.
goes overseas to train or join in fighting
joins ISIS or comes back to home country to commit terrorism


here is yet one more example:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/abdelhamid-abaaoud-suspected-mastermind-of-paris-terror-attacks

if we could better understand why it is people with this background, rather than say, from extremely religious families, maybe we could do something effective about it.

[smirkymonkey]

42. +1000

[WestSeattle2]

17. It's ironic, but most of the terrorists come from middle and upper class families. Many are

well educated too.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

18. You're right. The less educated who become radicalized

in their western home countries end up fighting for ISIS on the battleground in Syria. Even sixteen year old girls from Britain have tried to join.

[leftynyc]

19. Truth in every word you printed

Frankly, I don't understand why countries like Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states aren't doing their part. Other than saying they'd build more mosques in Europe, they haven't done a fucking thing.

[Jesus Malverde]

32. They have done plenty to fund the jihadist.

Saudi Arabia even cleared out its death row and sent them to Syria to fight.

[leftynyc]

34. True enough

I meant do anything positive. I'm still waiting for anyone to explain why this became such an issue in Europe and the US. Could it be they're tired of living in Islamic countries and know that the West is better? Nah - that can't possibly be it - after all, we're the cause of all the problems in the world.

[LisaL]

14. The two who bombed Boston marathon did.

[leftynyc]

20. Yup

Can't really say I blame the wingers as they have proof right there. Until the left decides to face reality and understand their fears are not TOTALLY unfounded, we'll continue to lose elections we should be winning.

[rockfordfile]

24. you're a republican

your talking points are so way out there. you're in fox news territory.

[leftynyc]

27. Sorry, cupcake

But if I were a republican, I wouldn't have been posting on this board for over a decade. Now run along with your 162 post history and let the grown ups talk. Next time have more respect for people who have been here so much longer than you have and have been voting Democratic since they're 18.

[B2G]

28. Do you know how the jury system works here?

You're about to find out.

[leftynyc]

30. If you alerted

I thank you for your support but you really shouldn't have bothered. I long ago stopped giving a shit what anonymous posters had to say about my politics not aligning PERFECTLY with theirs. Anyone who starts off with "you're a republican" is not a person that should be taken seriously at any level.

[B2G]

31. I did. I think it's my 2nd alert since joining.

He caught me on a bad day. Lol.

[leftynyc]

33. LOL

I still sincerely thank you. Hope tomorrow is better. Hugs.

[LisaL]

11. I am sorry, but what does having young children have to do

with anything? One of the perps in Boston marathon bombing had a young daughter.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

15. True, but statistically, more terrorists are single

We can't guarantee every person will never become a terrorist, but we can lower the risk while still helping Syrian refugees.

[Yo_Mama]

26. The minorities, yes, because they are in the most danger. Muslim women and children are not

in the same category. For one thing, after the area is settled they should be able to go back safely, and it is unlikely that some of the minority populations ever will be able to go back. We should allow them in as refugees.

Haven't you been paying attention about the junior jihadis? They have children as young as 8 or 9 who have graduated from these camps. 12 and 13 year-olds who have not only been trained to kill but who HAVE killed in the name of Allah.

They may be children, but they are not safe people to have over here.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

37. And as soon as ISIS realizes that, they'll react.

All they need to do is issue a fighter one wife, two kids, and they'll skate through the borders.

Or issue the fighter a crucifix, a bag of BLT's, a bottle of cheap wine, and again, smooth sailing.

I'm not sure profiling the ISIS fighters will be all that easy.

[Democat]

3. Western governments will have to listen to voters

If most voters are scared and want to pause the acceptance of refugees from countries where terrorists might be active, then Western governments will have no choice.

It might not be fair to real refugees, but how many politicians are going to want to take this kind of risk?

[EL34x4]

10. And if liberal governments won't pause the refugee migration

Voters will elect right-wing governments who will. And a whole lot more.

[leftynyc]

21. Why so many here

don't accept that simple reality is beyond the scope of my understanding. This is a REAL concern and not admitting that just makes people look foolish.

[Turborama]

4. That doesn't make any sense.

If they were in Morocco and planned to get into Europe they could have slipped into Spain, and would have only had to cross 2 borders if they were heading for Germany.

[leftynyc]

8. Are the French borders

still closed? That would have slowed them down.

[B2G]

29. I believe they are still closed. nt

[brooklynite]

35. No - consider that the two AF flights diverted yesterday were traveling to Paris..;.

Borders are open, but identity controls are more stringent. In olden days, they would have barely looked at your Passport.

[leftynyc]

36. The airports never closed

and neither did the train stations - probably for the same reason the ground borders were closed - to keep the bad guys from getting OUT. Given the situation, them trying to get through France would have been extremely foolish. Good thing they got caught.

[Yo_Mama]

23. They wouldn't have appeared to be Syrian refugees, though. n/t

[Turborama]

38. There are easier ways to get into Europe from Morrocco than posing as Syrian refugees

...and having to go the long way around, with lots more risk to getting caught. Is what I was saying.

[Yo_Mama]

39. Not if you want to be able to move easily with false credentials.

Realistically, a lot of refugees won't have much identity documentation. They basically take their info and issue them credentials in the intake country, and then that is used to travel throughout Europe.

It does not seem as if Greece was even matching them against known databases for Europeans - maybe they didn't have the ability to do it.

[Nihil]

40. Don't know about the ability to do it but they certainly don't have the inclination.

> They basically take their info and issue them credentials in the intake country,
> and then that is used to travel throughout Europe.
> It does not seem as if Greece was even matching them against known databases
> for Europeans - maybe they didn't have the ability to do it.

It is very much in Greece's interest to issue credentials that allow the "refugee" to
immediately travel elsewhere in Europe rather than have to guard, feed & monitor
them in their own country.

(This is exactly the same approach as has been adopted by most of the "border"
countries of the EU and a direct reason why there are large camps in Calais, etc..)

[Yo_Mama]

44. Yes, and Greece has refused to set up camps in its country on humanitarian reasons.

No one wants them to stay. The intake countries, including the interims like Austria, give 'em papers. Austria is literally bussing them to the German border.

That's how you get eight passports for the same Syrian individual with the same birthdate and the same place of birth, all issued by EU countries with eight sets of fingerprints and eight different pictures.

Nor can it possibly be different in the US.

No one has the ability to even determine identity. Legitimate passports of individuals who have made it in to Germany are targets of theft. Once they have details that passed before, these details are provided to those who want to take refugee train into Europe.

They were seizing false passports by the tens of thousands.

Even Merkel's government has admitted that a large majority of their refugees are not from Syria, (government figures last month about a third from Syria), but it's also conceded that at least a third of them are coming in with false identities:
http://www.infowars.com/1-in-3-syrian-refugees-have-fake-ids-german-authorities-admit/

[Turborama]

41. Where did you get your info about how refugees are handled from?

[Yo_Mama]

43. German newspapers that went through the nitty-gritty. n/t

[Turborama]

47. I was specifically where you get this from...

"Realistically, a lot of refugees won't have much identity documentation. They basically take their info and issue them credentials in the intake country, and then that is used to travel throughout Europe.

It does not seem as if Greece was even matching them against known databases for Europeans - maybe they didn't have the ability to do it. "

[Yo_Mama]

45. But old news is that a lot of Syrian passports are faked in Syria

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3305361/Germany-overwhelmed-false-asylum-seekers-Syrian-passports-forgery-experts-admit-t-spot-fakes.html

ISIS and other militant groups seized tons of genuine passport papers when they seized Syrian government offices. They apparently have sold a lot of them for cash, but they can also issue completely genuine Syrian passports under fake identities to their own people.

Read the linked article:

The forger explained that the militias fighting the forces of Assad make a beeline for government offices when they over-run a town. They know the value of the documents there and steal the passports, papers and even the printers that are used to create identity cards and driving licences.

'I don't know which town this passport came from because it has happened many times,' said the forger, who wanted to remain anonymous.

'Fighters – from the Free Syrian Army, Al Nusra, ISIS or whatever – they know the value of these documents. They take them and they give them to us. They ask us to make new identities for them and their families so they can travel outside Syria.

We do this for them and they leave us some of the books so we can sell them. There are many people – Syrian people – who have lost their passports and identity cards because of the chaos of the war. They want new documents to help them in Europe.'

The persons most likely to have full and undetectable false Syrian identity documents are not the refugees from war or persecution, but the militants and the families of militants.

[Turborama]

46. I have a lot of difficulty believing anything I read in The Mail or Express.

They have an agenda, and it's not hidden.

[Yo_Mama]

48. I looked for an English-language article. This is true;the German press is reporting

now that the type of "faked" passports described above were used by at least one of the Paris attackers.

It's a genuine passport blank with fake personal details usually linked to a genuine Syrian identity, mostly ones who are dead.

The Germans knew back in the fall that they were getting thousands of fake passports, and that there was nothing they could do about it.

Look - ISIS got control of pieces of the government in Syria. They're issuing the passports to their own people.

Here is a German language article giving details of two of the Paris attackers who had Syrian passports and came in as refugees; this now confirmed by comparison of fingerprints from the initial registration. It took a while because there a multiple passports with the same names and identification information but different pictures among refugees. And they are not often "forged" - they are genuine documents issued in Syria or Turkey from Syrian forms for money:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/islamistischer-terror/weiterer-sprengstoffattentaeter-von-paris-identifiziert-13923907.html

You can put that link in one of the website translators if you want to confirm that my translation is basically accurate:

Der Attentäter, der sich am 13. November um 21.30 Uhr am Eingang H zum Stade de France in die Luft sprengte, trug nach Angaben aus Ermittlerkreisen einen syrischen Pass auf den Namen Mohammad al-Mahmod bei sich. Der zweite Attentäter, der sich um 21.20 Uhr am Eingang D des Stadions in die Luft sprengte, hatte einen syrischen Pass mit dem Namen Ahmad al-Mohammad. Dieser Pass gehört zu einem syrischen Soldaten der Regierungstruppen von Präsident Baschar al-Assad, der vor mehreren Monaten getötet wurde.

Aus französischen Ermittlerkreisen hieß es, die Dschihadistenmiliz „Islamischer Staat“ (IS) verfüge über „authentische ungenutzte Reisepässe“. Diese würden eingesetzt, um gezielt Menschen in den europäischen Schengen-Raum einzuschleusen.

The attacker who blew himself up on the 13th of November at 10:30 at Entrance H of the Stadium of France carried, according to information from investigators, a Syrian passport under the name of Mohammed Al-Mahmod. The second attacker, who blew himself up at 10:20 at Entrance D of the stadium, had a Syrian passport with the name of Ahman al-Mohammad. This passport belongs to a Syrian solder in the government military under President Assad, who had been killed months ago.

According to French investigators, the jihadist militants of the Islamic State would have access to 'authentic unused passports'. These would be used to infiltrate specific persons into the European Schengen zone.

[redwitch]

5. Reading the comments to the article on Yahoo has cost me IQ points.

I am having a "humans suck" day. I'm going to go bake something and stay off the internet for a bit.

[Turborama]

6. I had a look for them earlier but couldn't find them

Glad I couldn't now, thanks for the heads up!

[Darb]

12. Yahoo is a cesspool.

Look at any Obama article and be amazed at the hate and lies. It is discouraging.

[patsimp]

22. i want to help the true refugees but these terrorists posing as refugees makes the risk very high.