Dolan: White House is "strangling" Catholic church

[SunSeeker]

Source: cbsnews.com

The spat between Catholic leaders and the Obama administration over its contraception policies is heating up again, with one of the nation's most prominent Catholic leaders charging that the White House is "strangling" the church over the matter.

Timothy Cardinal Dolan told "CBS This Morning" Tuesday that the compromise reached earlier this year is not sufficient because the exemptions made for churches are too restrictive.

"They tell us if you're really going be considered a church, if you're going to be really exempt from these demands of the government, well, you have to propagate your Catholic faith and everything you do, you can serve only Catholics and employ only Catholics," Dolan said.

"We're like, wait a minute, when did the government get in the business of defining for us the extent of our ministry," Dolan said.

More than 40 Catholic organizations sued the Obama administration Monday over a government requirement that most employers provide birth control coverage as part of their employee health plans.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505267_162-57438959/dolan-white-house-is-strangling-catholic-church/?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

---

So, if you work for this douchebag, you are welcome to die from ovarian cysts.

[Dawson Leery]

1. The same church (along with the fundies) who want

to dictate to society that gays cannot wed and contraception is not acceptable.

Dolan does not want restrictions on church activity all the while he wants to place restrictions onto society at large.

[SunSeeker]

14. These are not even restrictions on church activity, they're rules of employment.

If you want to employ someone, you have to follow employment rules. Just like if you are going to drive a car, you have to follow the rules of the road. The WH is not "defining" church "ministry." The church can still rant all it wants about the evils of contraception--and keep losing parishioners because of it. It is this intolerant ministry, which, of course, is what is really strangling the church--that and their ignoring pedophile priests.


BTW, your signature line made me snort my coffee!

[liberalnationalist]

26. Dolan the child molester can burn in hell

if you are going to employ..that means be an employer of thousands like a hospital an you hire non catholics then you are a public entity and have to abide by federal and state laws

go to hell Dolan...go to hell

[qb]

2. Just like boycotts are depriving Rush et al of "free speech": BS

Do conservatives not see how pathetic their culture of victimhood is?

[Elliemama]

3. Tax Exempt Status

IRS needs to change the status for the catholic church. They are a bunch of partisan politicians wearing colorful robes.

Revoke the 501 c whatever, and make the catholic church pay taxes!

[secondwind]

16. AMEN! lol

[perdita9]

19. I'll second that!

[geardaddy]

20. Testify!

They're just a supernational government.

[liberalnationalist]

27. amen

tax the child molster and child sex trafficking organization other wise known as the Roman Catholic church

[joeglow3]

44. Why? They are not violating their 501(c)(3) status.

[They_Live]

55. Really?

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
- their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual,
- they must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests,
- they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation,
- they must not participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office, and
- the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy .


However, section 501(c)(3) organizations must avoid any issue advocacy that functions as political campaign intervention . Even if a statement does not expressly tell an audience to vote for or against a specific candidate, an organization delivering the statement is at risk of violating the political campaign intervention prohibition if there is any message favoring or opposing a candidate . A statement can identify a candidate not only by stating the candidate’s name but also by other means such as showing a picture of the candidate, referring to political party affiliations, or other distinctive features of a candidate’s platform or biography . All the facts and circumstances need to be considered to determine if the advocacy is political campaign intervention .


Key factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:
...
- whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval for one or more candidates’ positions and/or actions;

[joeglow3]

61. What he said was not in the performance of his job

If he said similar things from the altar, there would be an issue. Working for a 501(c)(3) organization does not preclude from ever speaking about issues outside of the organization.

[gratuitous]

4. That would be possible only if Catholicism was our state religion

But I'm sure the bulldog interviewers on CBS This Morning were right on top of this point, so my mentioning it is superfluous.

[atreides1]

8. About those interviewers

I was waiting for Charlie Rose to kiss the bishop's ring...considering the "hard" questions he was asking!

There are times when Rose does a great job and there are times when he sucks ass...this was a suck ass time....

[elzenmahn]

5. Yet another reason why I stopped going to Catholic Churches on a regular basis...

...the good Cardinal, in this and many other examples, is and has been a tool for the Republicans.

Didn't he also lend support for the Ryan budget (when the rest of the Church leadership, good for them, told Paul Ryan where he can take his God-Damned budget plan)?

A few well-placed calls to the IRS might be in order - I sense that a revocation of tax-exempt status would be appropriate.

[Crow73]

6. Keep this in mind about douche Dolan.

Timothy Cardinal Dolan hit Albany for a round of lobbying on issues close to the heart of the Catholic Church, with those ranging from abortion to same-sex marriage. Per our Glenn Blain, Dolan also spoke at length about a subject arguably as controversial as either of those: The Child Victims Act, which would extend the statute of limitations in clergy sexual abuse cases.

“We feel that this is terribly unjust. It singles [out] the church and it would be -- and I use the word purposefully -- devastating for the life of the church," Dolan told reporters gathered in the LCA, as you can see from the pic at right from Blain's Twitter feed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2012/03/dolan-calls-child-victims-act-unjust-to-church

[randome]

7. Bad move by the White House.

They should just de-fund it and drown it in a bathtub.

[meow2u3]

9. meow2u3 to Cardinal Dolan: God didn't die and make you high priest

It isn't Obama who's strangling the Church; it's Dolan and his holier-than-thou attitude that's driving faithful Catholics by acting more like dictators than the shepherds and servants they should be.

Is it just me, or is it that the more outspokenly conservative a cleric is, the less likely he is to practice what he preaches, and the more likely there are skeletons in his own closet (I'm using "he" because Catholic clerics are men)?

[Liberal Veteran]

10. I'm so oppressed! Make it stop!

They have got to be kidding me.

[atreides1]

11. I have a question

Does anyone know how much taxpayer money these "affiliates" get?

[liberalnationalist]

29. thats right

cut the bastards federal tit off...then he can complain...what an asshole Dolan is...he is going to burn in hell

[montanacowboy]

31. Martin Bashir said on his show today

the Catholic Church gets $2.9 BILLION a year from the Govt

thats B for Billion

[maddezmom]

56. saw that and the interview where the church is threatening not to feed the poor

due to the whole birth control issue.

[smirkymonkey]

60. That's "O" for Obscene.

[KamaAina]

12. Did he drink from Bill Donohue's sippy cup?

'Cause it sure looks like he's contracted the same illness, marked by advanced paranoia in which the whole world is a giant conspiracy against the poor put-upon downtrodden Catholics.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

13. Strangling the Catholic Church is an option?

Last edited Wed May 23, 2012, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Okay, let's get this done.

[Arugula Latte]

37. Yeah, no kidding. I'm in.

[The Wizard]

15. Some say Cardinal Dolan enjoys the comoany of young boys

Does Cardinal Dolan enjoy young boys? cardinal Dolan never denied an affinity for young boys. What is cardinal Dolan keeping hidden in the closet? The American people have to know what the Cardinal is doing with all those tax exemptions. Are the American people paying for cardinal Dolan's habits?

[PatrynXX]

17. if Dolan keeps at this.. there'll be Polygamy quite everywhere

"We're like, wait a minute, when did the government get in the business of defining for us the extent of our ministry," Dolan said.


uh well they did block that part of Mormonism. Unfortunately they haven't blocked pissing on Jews yet.

more or less one gets federal money for a hospital that has St. before the name usually. one has to take what comes with it.

But what I can't understand is maybe the drug needs a new name. 1. prevents abortion. 2. actually provides some women to have children (catholics christian scientists?? ) 3. we already have a form of population control. somehow forcing the NATIONAL guard overseas hence why our Vets are throwing the medals in chicago. they don't mean anything anymore...

[snacker]

18. What an ass!

...and that's from a girl who went to Catholic school!

[rurallib]

21. Lie of course; but the Catholic Church is strangling women

And I call for women to start boycotting the Catholic Church.
The only way that this religion will ever give women any respect at all is if women simply quit supporting their current 10th century mentality.

[Iliyah]

22. A lot of the Bishops from the Catholic Church are effing

strangling their women followers.

[xxqqqzme]

23. Could this asshat

be any more irrelevant?



"...Eighty-two percent of U.S. Catholics say birth control is morally acceptable, nearing the 89% of all Americans and 90% of non-Catholics who agree. The level of acceptability on this issue is far greater than that of the other 17 issues Gallup asked about this year..." (emphasis added)

From a Gallup poll, currently on DU's opening page.


It would appear the 'strangling' originated from a source other than the current administration.

[caseymoz]

24. The CC will lose this case.

I believe Scalia himself said that churches that run secular services, like Universities and Hospitals, are not exempt from employment laws. Unless the employee is part of the Clergy, then Separation standards kick in.

And the Church is being in every way obstructionists and stiff-necked about this. The compromise offered was that employees can get contraception paid for directly from the insurance companies. Therefore the Church is not even in the loop. It's not even part of the premium they pay. They want to interfere with dealings between their employee and a third party.

No, says the Catholic Clergy, we'll prevent that, too. Why? Because contraception and abortion are wrong, and we can.

And they are taking that argument to court. Of course, there are five Catholics on the SCOTUS, but if they find in favor of the Church, they are truly the most mendacious Court in our lifetime. Possible. But I don't think they will.

Though this dispute can effect the election, and is calculated to do just that.

[2ndAmForComputers]

50. A (exceedingly stupid) Catholic fundy I know said they would just stop employing people.

I imagine how that could happen.

[caseymoz]

51. They can't run their operations solely with clergy.

They don't have near the numbers anymore.

My extremely Catholic father says they'll just close down their hospitals and universities.

I said if they do, it'll just bring the Catholic Church another step closer to irrelevance.

Everyone my Dad knows in the church though would be his age. There has been a sizable shift in this country, indicated by the fact that teen pregnancies are falling apparently due to contraceptive use. That's not just the next generation of voters, it's been happening for a decade (since the Internet). Add to that the Church wounded itself badly with the ongoing, never-ending, child-abuse scandals, and like the Komen foundation, the Catholic Church is cracked if they think they're going to win this.

[hrmjustin]

25. Leaving the Catholic church and becoming episcopalian looks like...

...a good move. When I left O'Connor was the Archbishop of this city and I don't miss him. And I will not miss this moron.

[glinda]

33. I was raised Catholic and married an Episcopalian. Neither of us practice though!

Will say I find Episcopalians far more reasonable.

[atreides1]

62. Make sure you find the good Episcopalians

Not the ones that have decided to leave and ally themselves with an African bishop filled with as much hate as they are.

[hrmjustin]

65. I left 15 years ago and...

...found a wonderful Manhattan episcopal church.

[DesertDiamond]

28. It reminds me of an abusive relationship I observed once...

Anytime the abused side of the relationship tried to protest the abuse, the abuser tried to claim the abuser's protest was abusive.

[JoePhilly]

30. Catholic women should cut off all donations to the church.

After all, those women will need the extra money for medical insurance.

[patrice]

34. Cardinal Dolan, this is not a chicken-or-the-egg question.

The RC Church and those like it, out of the entire market of health care services and service providers, decided to force its limitations upon those whom you are SUPPOSED TO SERVE.

Perhaps you have forgotten teachings about moral responsibility that some of us remember quite clearly. Our UNIVERSAL church told us back then, we are just as free as we are also capable of also accepting the consequences of our own actions. Your choice to discriminate, to not serve certain kinds of women, has 2 consequences in a field that includes many non-Catholics and other who do not oppose women's rights over their own bodies:

1. Hire those who have made free, mature, fully informed decisions that they can and will provide this service to women;
2. Downsize market & staff to fit your own, self-imposed, limitations.

[Dont call me Shirley]

35. Someone needs to strangle the Craplic heirarchy

What a bunch of bully whiney toddlers.

[caraher]

36. The ginned up "religious liberty" poutrage on the part of many Catholics...

pretty much erases any misgivings I might entertain about leaving that part of my heritage behind.

[hedgehog]

38. Cardinal Dolan

[Fearless]

40. +1

[Fearless]

39. They don't allow you to impose your views on others and...

You're the victim? Lol! Give me a break!

[Joey Liberal]

41. So glad that I left the Catholic Church

They have strangled themselves.

[Swede Atlanta]

42. Churches and other religious entities should never have been exempt from taxes.....

I have yet to understand why we allow religious institutions to avoid paying taxes whether on their income or on the value of their property.

Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc. are businesses. They are in the business of promoting their religion and serving their members. I don't see how this is any different than any other business.

But much more than paying tax on their income is the missed revenue to local communities all over the country in the form of property taxes. Many of these religious institutions sit on prime, prime real estate that otherwise would generate probably billions in tax revenues. Take St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. If that land were held by a regular business, New York would be raking in millions in tax revenue.

Time has come to treat these religious entities for what they are, businesses.

They employ people so they comply with the laws of the jurisdiction. If they don't want to comply with the laws then they can take their business elsewhere like say, Iran. Let's see how far they get there.

[SunSeeker]

45. +1,000!!

[patrice]

48. I have never understood how the exemptions don't violate the establishment clause.

And WHAT exactly are the exemptions for? WHY do we give them to churches? This is money in their pockets FOR WHAT?

Is it not possible for people to believe in whatever without a church? What benefit doe WE derive from their believing in anything? that makes it worth what we are paying for it?

If we are paying churches to make people moral, aren't they doing a mighty piss-poor in-effective job? And anyway aren't parents supposed to be responsible for moral development? If the state isn't supposed to run things, because it "makes people weak", how is that any different from any other group, like churches, taking responsibilities, such as moral development, that don't rightly belong to them? If morality is what we are paying for, why are we subsidizing bad parenting? Doesn't that just make bad parenting worse?

Are we paying for their services to the poor? What good are services that don't solve the root causes of poverty? If I went to a doctor that only treated a rash caused by an allergy, would I keep giving him my money? If they don't promote solutions amongst the poor and politically, aren't they really just farming a poorclient-base that keeps their tax exemptions alive ad infinitum? Why is this not called Socialism?

If the churches are serving the poor, shouldn't the churches be full of poor people? not just soup-kitchens, but actual living resources? Shouldn't the poor use the church vehicles, the work-out facilities, go on the ski-trips, ball games, theater, night-outs in the club district?

CLEARLY, churches are businesses.

None of it makes any sense, especially in light of the establishment clause. What am I missing here?

[SunSeeker]

66. Nothing. But good luck with that argument in front of the Roberts Court. nt

[NC_Nurse]

43. If only.

[NYC Liberal]

46. From the IRS's "Tax Guide for Churches & Religious Organizations":

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
- their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual,
- they must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests,
- they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation,
- they must not participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office, and
- the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy .

However, section 501(c)(3) organizations must avoid any issue advocacy that functions as political campaign intervention . Even if a statement does not expressly tell an audience to vote for or against a specific candidate, an organization delivering the statement is at risk of violating the political campaign intervention prohibition if there is any message favoring or opposing a candidate . A statement can identify a candidate not only by stating the candidate’s name but also by other means such as showing a picture of the candidate, referring to political party affiliations, or other distinctive features of a candidate’s platform or biography . All the facts and circumstances need to be considered to determine if the advocacy is political campaign intervention .

Key factors in determining whether a communication results in political campaign intervention include the following:
...
- whether the statement expresses approval or disapproval for one or more candidates’ positions and/or actions;

[BlueToTheBone]

47. Damn, I thought it was their pedophilia that

was killing the Church.

[D23MIURG23]

49. If only. n/t

[IndyJones]

52. Oh, please! If you're going to take taxpayer money, then you have to accept the strings that

go along with taking taxpayer money. Fact is, those "Catholic" institutions would not be around today to be blathering about their anti-contraception views if not for our tax dollars that keep their doors open. Don't like it? Then don't take taxpayer money and see how long those hospital and university doors stay open.

Dolan, go get your own damn house in order.

[2pooped2pop]

53. now if we could just castrate the Catholic church

or at least the priests.

[Marrah_G]

54. Dear Cardinal Dolan

Go fuck yourself.

[maddezmom]

57. +1000 and a link to an interview on Martin Bashir's show

Cardinal Dolan: Church may give up feeding poor over birth control mandate
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-bashir/47524412/#47524412

[SunSeeker]

58. Unbelievable. They're going to give up their only redeeming feature?! nt

[treestar]

59. The only thing the church is a victim of

Is not being able to force its views on others via the government.

[stubtoe]

63. Throttle harder!

(I was born a Catholic, so I can say this).

[bowens43]

64. the pope wears funny hats and......

you can bet that if little boys could get pregnant these clowns would be all for contraceptives.

[freshwest]

67. They're dying off after having been signed on to conventional health care policies for years?

But just now and only now...

The oxygen is leaving their brains?

So the ending of discrimination against the sick, the elderly, the poor and uh... women created this death rattle?

Methinks these media mouthpieces doth protest too much.

That's just me, though.

[and-justice-for-all]

68. They are being told to let the individuals decide

whats best for them, let the option be available to them. Just because it is made accessible does not mean that they are going to use it. The Catholic church politicize far more than they should anyway, they always meddle in politics.

[Hawkowl]

69. Churches need to PAY TAXES

Churches are not above the law. Comply with the laws and pay taxes. Strangling churches is probably not a good idea. Regulating them so they don't enslave humanity is a good idea.